@AhmadMetallic said:

@Hailinel said:

@MikeGosot said:

@AhmadMetallic said:

@JasonR86 said:

It sure is popular to dislike GTA 4.

For a game that set the standard for all these clone games like Saints Row 3 and Sleeping Dogs (which are good games), yeah, it gets all the hate instead of appreciation.

Maybe some people, just, you know... Dislike GTA 4. Some people think that the driving was shit and the shooting was lackluster, and it also was a completely new direction on the series, making it a very divisive game. The level of hype also didn't help, because people could expect things that were entirely different from what they got. Besides, even if GTA pionereed the gangster-open-world genre, that doesn't mean that every game with gangster and an open world are GTA clones. GTA attempts to create an organical city, parodying American Culture while Sleeping Dogs is a homage to Asian Action Movies not only in the story, but also in gameplay. Saints Row 3 focus more on the toys that you have than in the sandbox, almost the polar opposite of the objectives in GTA.

And further along those lines, where Saints Row: The Third is concerned, the game embraces the ludicrous, while GTAIV was content to tell a more down-to-earth story and took itself far more seriously despite its riffs on American culture.

I understand this. My point is that Sleeping Dogs and Saints Row 3 brought no foundations of their own. Both of them in their entirety are based on and built around what GTA IV pioneered, but since they came AFTER it, they naturally fixed Rockstar's mistakes and added more polish, which is why they're "better."

The notion that these games deserve more credit because they did it better is what's bothering me here. They wouldn't exist if IV didn't revolutionize the urban open world third person shooter and lay down the foundations that those games openly built upon, and all the mechanics they blatantly borrowed.

You can't blame IV for it's flaws, it was the FIRST game to do what it did, just like Assassin's Creed was flawed because it was the first time anyone did it. You should thank IV for SR3/Dogs just like you thank AC1 for AC2.

And about the characters, yes Niko was kinda lame, and yes the characters were all stereotypical, but you WOULDN'T have those good Sleeping Dogs cutscenes and that dialogue style if Rockstar didn't pioneer it in IV.

The Saints Row franchise started before GTAIV was in development, and Sleeping Dogs was at one point a True Crime game (another franchise that predates GTAIV). You cannot credit the existence of GTAIV with either SR3 or Sleeping Dogs.

What, precisely, did GTAIV do first? It's a very pretty open world game that takes itself seriously and actually lacks a number of elements that were found in the PS2-era GTA titles. Saints Row alone did a lot to push the genre forward from a mechanical standpoint before GTAIV came out.

I think the best point about GTA IV so far is that is can still be talked about in comparison with games coming out now. Impressive on its behalf.

@agentboolen: If this really started as a True Crime game, kudos to the developers. Those games sucked.

@CaptainTightPants said:

@AlexW00d: Niko's brother never made an appearance in GTA IV.

Herp derp. Whatever the dumbass was then.

Yes, you are the only person in the world who thinks Sleeping Dogs is better than GTAIV.

@Hailinel said:

The Saints Row franchise started before GTAIV was in development, and Sleeping Dogs was at one point a True Crime game (another franchise that predates GTAIV). You cannot credit the existence of GTAIV with either SR3 or Sleeping Dogs.

As single games, I'm crediting IV for the direction and style of SR3 and Dogs. If you wanna talk franchises, sure, I credit Grand Theft Auto for Saints Row and True Crime. You do realize SR1 was basically GTA with a few changes right?

What, precisely, did GTAIV do first? It's a very pretty open world game that takes itself seriously and actually lacks a number of elements that were found in the PS2-era GTA titles. Saints Row alone did a lot to push the genre forward from a mechanical standpoint before GTAIV came out.

First of all, let's talk about IV: Missing elements from previous GTA games? Yes, it didn't have the scale, location variety and the various gadgets that San Andreas had, as well as the lack of bikes and jets. Now this is a double-edged sword because:

Pros: It featured a new type of Rockstar style game that relied more on "realism" and the seriousness of a Hollywood action movie, which is the main reason (among others that I will list in a minute) that Dogs is to me an IV clone. Dogs mirrors IV's seriousness in an almost identical way as you meet new Triad bosses and move up in the ranks, making friends and enemies.

Cons: It didn't feature the absurdly entertaining GTA experience, but that was due to technical limitations (jets) and, like I said, experimentation with style, without which we wouldn't have Red Dead Redemption, L.A. Noire and Dogs.

Secondly, IV did a lot of things first. SR3 is basically a funnier more batshit-insane version of IV (hilarious dialogue and voice acting, and the absurdity of the items in the world like dildos and laser guns). What I mean is the aesthetics of an urban metropolis that SR3 had, the GTA-trademark formula of story progressions where you drive from one icon to the next on the minimap to meet dudes and do missions to rank up in the crime world, buying ammo and clothes from shops, having your own crib and garage and a cellphone, and so forth.

Right now as I'm playing Sleeping Dogs, like I said, I feel I'm playing a new GTA. There isn't just one or two things that are similar, it's the whole package, the entire experience, the crib and cars and camera phone, the Rockstar cutscenes, the pacing of the story as I make my way up through the ranks and become the boss, the police chases where I evade them by exiting the circle o nthe minimap, the car racing through the streets, it's all the goddamn same!

Three Leaf Clover

@AhmadMetallic said:

@Hailinel said:

The Saints Row franchise started before GTAIV was in development, and Sleeping Dogs was at one point a True Crime game (another franchise that predates GTAIV). You cannot credit the existence of GTAIV with either SR3 or Sleeping Dogs.

As single games, I'm crediting IV for the direction and style of SR3 and Dogs. If you wanna talk franchises, sure, I credit Grand Theft Auto for Saints Row and True Crime. You do realize SR1 was basically GTA with a few changes right?

What, precisely, did GTAIV do first? It's a very pretty open world game that takes itself seriously and actually lacks a number of elements that were found in the PS2-era GTA titles. Saints Row alone did a lot to push the genre forward from a mechanical standpoint before GTAIV came out.

First of all, let's talk about IV: Missing elements from previous GTA games? Yes, it didn't have the scale, location variety and the various gadgets that San Andreas had, as well as the lack of bikes and jets. Now this is a double-edged sword because:

Pros: It featured a new type of Rockstar style game that relied more on "realism" and the seriousness of a Hollywood action movie, which is the main reason (among others that I will list in a minute) that Dogs is to me an IV clone. Dogs mirrors IV's seriousness in an almost identical way as you meet new Triad bosses and move up in the ranks, making friends and enemies.

Cons: It didn't feature the absurdly entertaining GTA experience, but that was due to technical limitations (jets) and, like I said, experimentation with style, without which we wouldn't have Red Dead Redemption, L.A. Noire and Dogs.

Secondly, IV did a lot of things first. SR3 is basically a funnier more batshit-insane version of IV (hilarious dialogue and voice acting, and the absurdity of the items in the world like dildos and laser guns). What I mean is the aesthetics of an urban metropolis that SR3 had, the GTA-trademark formula of story progressions where you drive from one icon to the next on the minimap to meet dudes and do missions to rank up in the crime world, buying ammo and clothes from shops, having your own crib and garage and a cellphone, and so forth.

Right now as I'm playing Sleeping Dogs, like I said, I feel I'm playing a new GTA. There isn't just one or two things that are similar, it's the whole package, the entire experience, the crib and cars and camera phone, the Rockstar cutscenes, the pacing of the story as I make my way up through the ranks and become the boss, the police chases where I evade them by exiting the circle o nthe minimap, the car racing through the streets, it's all the goddamn same!

I'll say it again. Saints Row and True Crime both came before GTAIV. Do the games use elements that were popularized in GTA? Certainly. Does that make them clones? No.

@Hailinel said:

@AhmadMetallic said:

@Hailinel said:

The Saints Row franchise started before GTAIV was in development, and Sleeping Dogs was at one point a True Crime game (another franchise that predates GTAIV). You cannot credit the existence of GTAIV with either SR3 or Sleeping Dogs.

As single games, I'm crediting IV for the direction and style of SR3 and Dogs. If you wanna talk franchises, sure, I credit Grand Theft Auto for Saints Row and True Crime. You do realize SR1 was basically GTA with a few changes right?

What, precisely, did GTAIV do first? It's a very pretty open world game that takes itself seriously and actually lacks a number of elements that were found in the PS2-era GTA titles. Saints Row alone did a lot to push the genre forward from a mechanical standpoint before GTAIV came out.

First of all, let's talk about IV: Missing elements from previous GTA games? Yes, it didn't have the scale, location variety and the various gadgets that San Andreas had, as well as the lack of bikes and jets. Now this is a double-edged sword because:

Pros: It featured a new type of Rockstar style game that relied more on "realism" and the seriousness of a Hollywood action movie, which is the main reason (among others that I will list in a minute) that Dogs is to me an IV clone. Dogs mirrors IV's seriousness in an almost identical way as you meet new Triad bosses and move up in the ranks, making friends and enemies.

Cons: It didn't feature the absurdly entertaining GTA experience, but that was due to technical limitations (jets) and, like I said, experimentation with style, without which we wouldn't have Red Dead Redemption, L.A. Noire and Dogs.

Secondly, IV did a lot of things first. SR3 is basically a funnier more batshit-insane version of IV (hilarious dialogue and voice acting, and the absurdity of the items in the world like dildos and laser guns). What I mean is the aesthetics of an urban metropolis that SR3 had, the GTA-trademark formula of story progressions where you drive from one icon to the next on the minimap to meet dudes and do missions to rank up in the crime world, buying ammo and clothes from shops, having your own crib and garage and a cellphone, and so forth.

Right now as I'm playing Sleeping Dogs, like I said, I feel I'm playing a new GTA. There isn't just one or two things that are similar, it's the whole package, the entire experience, the crib and cars and camera phone, the Rockstar cutscenes, the pacing of the story as I make my way up through the ranks and become the boss, the police chases where I evade them by exiting the circle o nthe minimap, the car racing through the streets, it's all the goddamn same!

I'll say it again. Saints Row and True Crime both came before GTAIV. Do the games use elements that were popularized in GTA? Certainly. Does that make them clones? No.

I don't think you can make the claim that they're clones when they share the same setting and time and the trappings thereof. The tools used are simply a product of the setting. By ignoring this, Skyrim is a clone of GTA4 with the open world, houses and journal (phone), rising through the ranks, and the city guards and so on. And GTA is a clone of Daggerfall for the same reason. And Daggerfall is a clone of Dungeons and Dragons tabletop games. I don't think having a game in the same setting with the same themes automatically quantifies it as a clone.

Personally speaking, I get completely different types of experiences playing Sleeping Dogs, GTA4, and SR3. There are similarities between them all, naturally, but each have their own distinct design philosophy as far as gameplay and narrative, which are the major points of the experience in the end.

Again, JMO.

@Grimhild said:

I don't think you can make the claim that they're clones when they share the same setting and time and the trappings thereof. The tools used are simply a product of the setting. By ignoring this, Skyrim is a clone of GTA4 with the open world, houses and journal (phone), rising through the ranks, and the city guards and so on. And GTA is a clone of Daggerfall for the same reason. And Daggerfall is a clone of Dungeons and Dragons tabletop games. I don't think having a game in the same setting with the same themes automatically quantifies it as a clone.

Personally speaking, I get completely different types of experiences playing Sleeping Dogs, GTA4, and SR3. There are similarities between them all, naturally, but each have their own distinct design philosophy as far as gameplay and narrative, which are the major points of the experience in the end.

Again, JMO.

I know what you mean. I don't believe in the whole "cloning" and "ripping off" theory, I believe games have many basic similarities and they often inspire each other, and that's fine by me. But I still believe that the overall style and pacing of Sleeping Dogs is basically copypasted from IV, aside from the Batman combat system and of course the different cultural environment.

Isn't  GTA IV like 4 to 5 years old?  I would fucking hope that a sandbox game in 2012 would be fucking better then GTA IV.

@bartok said:

Isn't GTA IV like 4 to 5 years old? I would fucking hope that a sandbox game in 2012 would be fucking better then GTA IV.

The fact that people still compare to it shows how revolutionary and unprecedented it was.

@Phatmac said:

@adam1808 said:

@Phatmac said:

Why do people keep saying "example x is a way better open world game than GTA!!"? Why does it always end up like this with most open world games? Is there some grand glee that people get off after dismissing GTA or what? Is it the underdog beating the champ mentality? Either way I fucking hate it.

As soon as something becomes big people want to see it fall. Same deal with Halo and Call of Duty, once you set a yardstick people can't wait to see it smashed by something else.

I guess. It just seems that whenever a new open world real life crime game comes out it is destined to fight against GTA. It doesn't make any goddamn sense.

We wouldn't have so many open world crime games if it weren't for GTA. That's why. Same reason every FPS set in a modern setting is now compared to CoD 4 and every WW2 shooter before that was compared to MoH (though CoD did eventually supplant MoH, it still owed much of it's DNA to that game). When a game becomes a paramount of it's genre, people begin hunting for the next paramount game.

I definitely prefer it to GTA, at least in parts. The story and the characters are better, and the combat is significantly more enjoyable. However, there's a lack of variety in the open world to make it interesting enough to keep coming back to it once you're done. Starting fights with the cops and the ensuing chase is a bit of fun, but they're fairly easy to escape and there's a distinct limit to how much havoc you can wreak on the streets. I got my money's worth from it by going after all the achievements and trying to beat people at the stat games, but it's not a game I'm likely to keep revisiting like GTAIV, and Vice City and GTAIII before it (skipped San Andreas).

@Shady said:

A lot of open world games are better than GTA IV.

Well thats your opinion man, here's some other opinions...

http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/grand-theft-auto-iv/critic-reviews

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

Well thats your opinion man, heres some other opinions...

http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/grand-theft-auto-iv/critic-reviews

You found four year old reviews that compare GTA IV to a game that didn't exist?

@BionicRadd: I love Sleeping Dogs, that was to just give all the GTA IV haters a reality check

@BionicRadd: It's like comparing new FPS games to Doom. There have been other great open world games like Saints Row, Infamous, Assassin's Creed, Mafia and more.

I understand this. My point is that Sleeping Dogs and Saints Row 3 brought no foundations of their own. Both of them in their entirety are based on and built around what GTA IV pioneered, but since they came AFTER it, they naturally fixed Rockstar's mistakes and added more polish, which is why they're "better."

The notion that these games deserve more credit because they did it better is what's bothering me here. They wouldn't exist if IV didn't revolutionize the urban open world third person shooter and lay down the foundations that those games openly built upon, and all the mechanics they blatantly borrowed.

You can't blame IV for it's flaws, it was the FIRST game to do what it did, just like Assassin's Creed was flawed because it was the first time anyone did it. You should thank IV for SR3/Dogs just like you thank AC1 for AC2.

And about the characters, yes Niko was kinda lame, and yes the characters were all stereotypical, but you WOULDN'T have those good Sleeping Dogs cutscenes and that dialogue style if Rockstar didn't pioneer it in IV.

@BionicRadd: It's like comparing new FPS games to Doom. There have been other great open world games like Saints Row, Infamous, Assassin's Creed, Mafia and more.

SR3 > GTASA > SD > GTAIV

lol, don't be silly.

@MikeGosot: Yeah, I noticed I went a little too far with the clone talk, my point was aimed more towards the style of Sleeping Dogs being heavily, and I mean heavily, inspired by that of IV.

@Paul_Tillich said:

Am I the only person in the world who thinks the game is better than GTA IV? The graphics are better (and close to on par with those ice mods). Also, the gameplay is certainly better - unique controls for driving and fighting instead of making an open world game and shoving everything else in. It is not Batman, but it actually has good fights instead of broken open world mechanics - they are separate mechanics. And finally, the story is compelling and well written, instead of trying to sell me Nico as a good guy when he is clearly crap.

Ok, let the hatred spew at me...

Unique controls? The controls are pretty much the same between the two, the difference is in the mechanics. For example, you bring up driving, but it all comes down to preference, do you like the need for speed style driving, or do you prefer a more grounded in reality driving style? I for one can't stand the awful shaky-cam blur filter Sleeping Dogs uses whenever I am driving. Then there is fighting, sure I am not going to debate that hand-to-hand combat is better in GTA 4 (it isn't), but GTA isn't a hand-to-hand combat game, it is a game with shooting, and I vastly prefer the GTA style shooting mechanics over Sleeping Dogs because it works better with a controller (with mouse and keyboard the shooting is a moot point because they both operate the same).You mention broken open world mechanics, but what are those? You have to be more specific, because if you are talking about collectable items, those are entirely optional, so if you don't enjoy them, don't complete them. Then you mention story, things all come down to ludo-narrative dissonance (the story saying one thing and the characters actions doing another), and in my ten hours or so in Sleeping Dogs, there is just as much in this game as there is in GTA 4. If anything there is more in Sleeping Dogs.

Since I really like to spend a lot of time driving in my open world action games, I'd have to assume that I would like Sleeping Dogs a LOT less than GTA4. Arcadey driving is a massive turnoff for me in open world games.

@Napalm said:

@AhmadMetallic said:

I understand this. My point is that Sleeping Dogs and Saints Row 3 brought no foundations of their own. Both of them in their entirety are based on and built around what GTA IV pioneered, but since they came AFTER it, they naturally fixed Rockstar's mistakes and added more polish, which is why they're "better."

Oh fuck off, that's bullshit. GTAIV was built around already established mechanics and did absolutely nothing new. Get fucked with that opinion.

Not true, they brang in the over the shoulder aiming and the RAGE physics engine. Plus all the crazy dynamic weather systems going on with liberty city.

@MikeGosot: Yeah, I noticed I went a little too far with the clone talk, my point was aimed more towards the style of Sleeping Dogs being heavily, and I mean heavily, inspired by that of IV.

@BabyChooChoo said:

@Phatmac said:

@adam1808 said:

@Phatmac said:

Why do people keep saying "example x is a way better open world game than GTA!!"? Why does it always end up like this with most open world games? Is there some grand glee that people get off after dismissing GTA or what? Is it the underdog beating the champ mentality? Either way I fucking hate it.

As soon as something becomes big people want to see it fall. Same deal with Halo and Call of Duty, once you set a yardstick people can't wait to see it smashed by something else.

I guess. It just seems that whenever a new open world real life crime game comes out it is destined to fight against GTA. It doesn't make any goddamn sense.

Nor will it ever. Take my advice and just stop trying to make sense of it haha. After years of visiting mmo forums and watching the same thing happen to WoW, I'm just exhausted trying to make sense of these people and I don't even like WoW that much. I'm fine with people having opinions. I welcome it with open arms. But this mentality of "I can't like this other thing if I like this thing" or "I have to compare this thing to this other thing to validate it" will just eternally baffle me.

I'm sure it is just people on the internet trying unsuccessfully at trying to create discourse on a forum. I'm a believer that if you can't think of anything interesting to bring up, then maybe you shouldn't, but then this is the internet and when has, "maybe I shouldn't do this," ever been thought of?

I remember being impressed with all the stories people were telling me of GTA4. And then I played it and a good chunk of it was accurate. Yet it couldn't draw me in like all prior GTAs have.

Sleeping Dogs takes more notes from Bully than GTAIV, they even had the same lead designer!

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

@Napalm said:

@AhmadMetallic said:

I understand this. My point is that Sleeping Dogs and Saints Row 3 brought no foundations of their own. Both of them in their entirety are based on and built around what GTA IV pioneered, but since they came AFTER it, they naturally fixed Rockstar's mistakes and added more polish, which is why they're "better."

Oh fuck off, that's bullshit. GTAIV was built around already established mechanics and did absolutely nothing new. Get fucked with that opinion.

Not true, they brang in the over the shoulder aiming and the RAGE physics engine. Plus all the crazy dynamic weather systems going on with liberty city.

Over the shoulder aiming? Is this a fucking joke? That's not a new thing GTAIV did. That shit existed in prior games. Re-read what I wrote. Christ. And weather effects? Grabbing at straws, are we?

@Napalm: Haha! Angry much? It was in open world games and the weather effects were pretty amazing. But you ignored the physics engine which was pretty huge and made the game crazy fun!

EDIT: But most of all it was Liberty City, it was fucking huge and a believable city with so many details. No other open world game achieves that, all the other open world games just seem so cookie cutter and clean. Sleeping Dogs is pretty fantastic but it's not going to get a 98 on metacritic.

@Napalm said:

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

@Napalm said:

@AhmadMetallic said:

I understand this. My point is that Sleeping Dogs and Saints Row 3 brought no foundations of their own. Both of them in their entirety are based on and built around what GTA IV pioneered, but since they came AFTER it, they naturally fixed Rockstar's mistakes and added more polish, which is why they're "better."

Oh fuck off, that's bullshit. GTAIV was built around already established mechanics and did absolutely nothing new. Get fucked with that opinion.

Not true, they brang in the over the shoulder aiming and the RAGE physics engine. Plus all the crazy dynamic weather systems going on with liberty city.

Over the shoulder aiming? Is this a fucking joke? That's not a new thing GTAIV did. That shit existed in prior games. Re-read what I wrote. Christ. And weather effects? Grabbing at straws, are we?

Um, when I say GTA IV did something new, or pioneered something, I don't mean from scratch. It's like the 10th GTA game, of fucking course it's building on previous GTA games, but the point here is that it pioneered in taking the urban open world game type into a new direction, a new aesthetic, more distinct mechanics and overall, UNPRECEDENTED narrative through powerful cutscenes with powerful characters. That's the shit that makes Sleeping Dogs scream GTA IV to me, that style and direction, Dogs totally snatched it and Chinese'd it.

@AhmadMetallic said:

Um, when I say GTA IV did something new, or pioneered something, I don't mean from scratch. It's like the 10th GTA game, of fucking course it's building on previous GTA games,

On other games. On previous, other videogames! Goddamn. Everything was ripped straight from other franchises, and even then completely bastardized. The shooting fucking sucked, the cover system fucking sucked, the driving fucking sucked, the characters sucking fucked, and so much more. Probably the only notably positive thing I can remark in regards to Grand Theft Auto IV is some of Nico's voice acting is absolutely top notch.

@Napalm said:

@AhmadMetallic said:

Um, when I say GTA IV did something new, or pioneered something, I don't mean from scratch. It's like the 10th GTA game, of fucking course it's building on previous GTA games,

On other games. On previous, other videogames! Goddamn. Everything was ripped straight from other franchises, and even then completely bastardized. The shooting fucking sucked, the cover system fucking sucked, the driving fucking sucked, the characters sucking fucked, and so much more. Probably the only notably positive thing I can remark in regards to Grand Theft Auto IV is some of Nico's voice acting is absolutely top notch.

Woah woah woah! The characters were fucking fantastic! Don't talk about Dwayne like that he's fragile enough as it is! Plus 98 on metacritic puts you in the minority, deal with it!

@MrKlorox said:

@Bourbon_Warrior: RAGE is much more than physics. But the thing people usually mean when talking about the physics of GTA4 would be the Euphoria middleware. And I agree, physics based procedural character animation is one of the coolest things added to the genre. However the regular physics were way above average too. Things had realistic weight and friction in that game, unlike nearly every other game that's still being made today. Add in the way the cars formed themselves to impacts and you had hours upon hours worth of new ways to play with physics that games didn't offer before.

PHYSICS!

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

@Napalm said:

@AhmadMetallic said:

Um, when I say GTA IV did something new, or pioneered something, I don't mean from scratch. It's like the 10th GTA game, of fucking course it's building on previous GTA games,

On other games. On previous, other videogames! Goddamn. Everything was ripped straight from other franchises, and even then completely bastardized. The shooting fucking sucked, the cover system fucking sucked, the driving fucking sucked, the characters sucking fucked, and so much more. Probably the only notably positive thing I can remark in regards to Grand Theft Auto IV is some of Nico's voice acting is absolutely top notch.

Woah woah woah! The characters were fucking fantastic! Don't talk about Dwayne like that he's fragile enough as it is!

Dwayne? He is a shitty, brooding, depressing character. I wish he would've just offed himself. So annoying.

the driving fucking sucked

@Napalm said:

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

@Napalm said:

@AhmadMetallic said:

Um, when I say GTA IV did something new, or pioneered something, I don't mean from scratch. It's like the 10th GTA game, of fucking course it's building on previous GTA games,

On other games. On previous, other videogames! Goddamn. Everything was ripped straight from other franchises, and even then completely bastardized. The shooting fucking sucked, the cover system fucking sucked, the driving fucking sucked, the characters sucking fucked, and so much more. Probably the only notably positive thing I can remark in regards to Grand Theft Auto IV is some of Nico's voice acting is absolutely top notch.

Woah woah woah! The characters were fucking fantastic! Don't talk about Dwayne like that he's fragile enough as it is!

Dwayne? He is a shitty, brooding, depressing character. I wish he would've just offed himself. So annoying.

EXACTLY HIS POINT!! he had depression from not being able to fit in to society after being released from jail. You got pretty far into the game that you hated so much, I bet you killed him didnt you!

Sleeping Dogs does something that GTA4 does not; it gives you things to do in the world it creates.

It has the thing where you are constantly side-tracking off of doing the main missions because there's a side-mission just over there you can do. There's always something else you can do besides the main storyline and that makes the game interesting and varied.

GTA4 was almost entirely just the primary story missions with little else to do in the gameworld. It was an empty boring shell.

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

@Napalm said:

Dwayne? He is a shitty, brooding, depressing character. I wish he would've just offed himself. So annoying.

EXACTLY HIS POINT!! he had depression from not being able to fit in to society after being released from jail. You got pretty far into the game that you hated so much, I bet you killed him didnt you!

There's a difference between brooding with a purpose, and being an annoying emo fuck. Dwayne was an annoying emo fuck.

@Fistfulofmetal: Not true had all the stranger missions, mini games, stunt jumps, finding brucies cars using just the photo kind of like the treasure hunts in RDR, the most wanted missions from the police cars, the assassination missions, pigeons (groan) and the silly shit like seeing Kat Williams and Ricky Gervais standup (god I hope GTA5 has Louie CK) plus multiplayer was pretty good too.

@Napalm said:

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

@Napalm said:

Dwayne? He is a shitty, brooding, depressing character. I wish he would've just offed himself. So annoying.

EXACTLY HIS POINT!! he had depression from not being able to fit in to society after being released from jail. You got pretty far into the game that you hated so much, I bet you killed him didnt you!

There's a difference between brooding with a purpose, and being an annoying emo fuck. Dwayne was an annoying emo fuck.

Ugh you just blindly hating now. Why bother?

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

@Napalm said:

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

@Napalm said:

Dwayne? He is a shitty, brooding, depressing character. I wish he would've just offed himself. So annoying.

EXACTLY HIS POINT!! he had depression from not being able to fit in to society after being released from jail. You got pretty far into the game that you hated so much, I bet you killed him didnt you!

There's a difference between brooding with a purpose, and being an annoying emo fuck. Dwayne was an annoying emo fuck.

Ugh you just blindly hating now. Why bother?

What part of, "fucking sucked" didn't you understand? I have strong opinions, which is a well established part of my personality on this site. If you don't like what I say then don't engage me, and if I engage you first, you can just ignore it. These are my opinions, unabashed.

Sleeping Dogs is awesome, i really think it is cool. Glad to see that Sleeping Dogs takes place in a totally different country and not the Usual American soil. Although I do enjoy a lot of open world games that take place in American looking places (Like SR3 GTAV) and real places like AC franchise and Uncharted franchise.

@Napalm Well noted ignore Napalm because he just trolling! By the way I fucking love Sleeping Dogs GOTY so far!

I at least hope so, since I hated GTA 4 as a game on every single level (controls, combat, driving, linearity of missions, dull activities). Before that game, I didn't know I had the capacity to hate games.

There was a Neogaf thread about this very same topic, so this just might push me over the edge to get this game, liked the Steam demo.

No.