How did Sonic games become horrible?

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#1 Posted by Stefan (519 posts) -

To be honest I am not quite sure how Sonic games became less and less appealing. I guess the lack of innovation and increasingly bad-ass style in the newer games made it possible.  
I really liked all the Sonic games on Genesis, even the semi-3D game was pretty nice at the time. Hell I even enjoyed playing Sonic R on my Saturn, it wasn't the best racing game but was still good enough for me to care about it. 
And when the Dreamcast was released Sonic had an outstanding comeback in 3D. I liked the game just as much as Mario's first appearance in 3D... well almost at least. It wasn't perfect but I didn't expect that back in 1999.
Sonic Adventure 2 was a decent sequel but nothing special in my opinion.  
 
And that's about the time those games really started sucking. Sonic Heroes was pretty boring and I won't even start on the current gen game from 2006. And as for the 2D games: to me they mostly feel like remakes :-P 
 
so what's your opinion, am I the only one who thinks that Sonic is a relict?

#2 Posted by Andrela (621 posts) -

The only good part of Sonic is the first level of a Sonic game, anything after that is usually terrible. Just my point of view.

#3 Posted by GunslingerPanda (4762 posts) -

Nah man, Adventure sucked too.

Online
#4 Posted by tranquilchaos (575 posts) -

We grew up...

#5 Posted by MysteriousBob (6272 posts) -

What? Sonic Adventure 1 was the awful game that marked the end of the series. Sonic Adventure 2 just drove the nails into the coffin. 
 
Sonic Heroes was a bad game, but at least I can commend it for at least trying to mimic the old games (none of that open world/human bullshit) which at least makes it a better Sonic game than Adventure ever was.

#6 Posted by Animasta (14692 posts) -
@GunslingerPanda said:
" Nah man, Adventure sucked too. "
I really liked adventure, but it's not really a "sonic" game.
#7 Posted by DonChipotle (2763 posts) -

Shadow. As soon as Shadow became a mainstay, Sonic games went totally downhill. 

#8 Posted by CookieMonster (2417 posts) -

I don't understand why everyone seems to forget the handheld games like Sonic Advance and Sonic Rush. They were pretty good. 
And I think everyone thinks that Sonic is a relic.  

#9 Posted by Raymayne (1226 posts) -
#10 Edited by JerichoBlyth (1044 posts) -

The last good Sonic game I had played before Sonic 4 was eventually released was Knuckles the Echidna and Chaotix for the 32x. It was basically the original concept for Sonic the Hedgehog 2 re-imagined as another title completely with brand new characters, who all supported Knuckles as the main character. So yeah, technically, it wasn't a Sonic title but it was a Sonic spin-off.
 
The whole chain system in Chaotix was brilliant I thought and for those who don't know - Sonic 2 was supposed to use the same mechanics as this, where Sonic would be attached to Tails by a metal chain but this idea was ditched eventually........however, there is a mod called Sonic and Crackers out there that pulls it off well. 
 
But yeah - I think Sonic really began to fail as soon as Travlers Tales got a hold of it and produced the abysmal Sonic 3D and then from there, it was all downhill for Sonic, as he tried and failed to enter the world of three dimensional gaming.

#11 Posted by ZeForgotten (10397 posts) -

They kept milking the franchies.  
Just like it is with other milked franchieses 

#12 Posted by Gabriel (4063 posts) -

Could it be the concept of Sonic the Hedgehog is awful? 

#13 Edited by agentboolen (1789 posts) -
@Stefan: It started going off track with Dreamcast's Sonic Adventure.  That game was almost really fun, but they had the really annoying RPG element's thrown in like talking to people.  That was there 1st BIG mistake.  Sonic never needed RPG elements thrown in.  Also it seemed with more and more sequels he stop trying to rescue fellow animals and the stories just got ridiculous.  The Xbox 360 Sonic he is trying to save a Lady that is human?!?!  Why didn't they just leave out the RPG elements and keep him trying to safe the animal population.  Sonic should have never came in contact with humans....  For when did the gameplay start getting bad, well thats when Sega decides that they need to throw out 2 Sonic games a year and not play test them at all!!!  Sonic the Hedgehog on the Xbox 360 and PS3 was the most bugged game on a console ever IMO.  It wasn't even playable!!
 

@Andrela

said:

" The only good part of Sonic is the first level of a Sonic game, anything after that is usually terrible. Just my point of view. "


Sad but kind of true!!  The 1st level was always the one I had the most fun with to...  I always hit the reset button once I got to the water level, back in the Genesis days.
#14 Posted by Stefan (519 posts) -

I think Adventure was a step into the right direction at least with one foot the other one went bogus (I guess metaphors are not my thing :-D), I just played it last week and still was kind of nice. I also disliked the "human bullshit". In addition Sonic should look cute and funny instead of serious and uber-kuhl. And fuck that Shadow character, he's as unlikeable as it gets.  
   

  That's what Sonic's world should look like! Oh and YES, the NAME IS ROBOTNIK!
#15 Posted by Irishjohn (581 posts) -
@CookieMonster: Yeah, those portable games really weren't bad, although the sales weren't great. I guess people who want a "good" Sonic game are vocal but limited in number. I consider myself amongst these people but I don't like the XBLA game. So, maybe I'm part of the problem? I don't know, but the new Sonic game is trying way too hard to emulate what came before rather than looking for a creative way to capture the same sense of excitement. 
#16 Posted by Stefan (519 posts) -

Hmm I guess it's true that handheld Sonic games weren't that bad, the only really bad one I can think of is Sonic on N-Gage. And that was due to the stupid screen.

#17 Posted by SethPhotopoulos (5268 posts) -

I loved Adventure 2 but didn't like the first one. 
 
Sonic Heroes was where it took a nose dive.  It was just boring.  After that they kept pushing new characters with shitty controls and to many glitches.  Sonic Adventure 2 had more characters to play as but Shadow was pretty much Sonic, Tails and Robotnik were the same but they didn't feel like shit when playing them and might I say... fun.  Knuckles and Rouge were annoying but I was able to get through them pretty quick. 
 
The Wii games have over simplified an already simple concept while also making him look slow.
 
I also noticed after 06 there was an abundance of people who proclaimed they never liked Sonic or that every game after Sonic and Knuckles sucks.  06 must have pissed enough people off for them to retroactively hate the Sonic games. 
 
I think the Adventure games haven't aged that great but they can still be pretty fun and they were good games back then.

#18 Posted by Animasta (14692 posts) -

also I think the portable sonic games are still pretty good (advance 2, maybe not but whatever)

#19 Posted by Demyx (3237 posts) -

I liked the Adventure game a lot. Other than that Sonic is pretty irrelevant now.

#20 Posted by CocoRodriguez--defunct (74 posts) -

I think the big thing is that Sega wanted to really differentiate Sonic from Mario around the Dreamcast/Nintendo 64 era. Rather than go from 2D to 3D with the same gameplay, which is (debatable) what Mario 64 did. They thought they could add more by putting in voice acting, setting it in the real world, and trying to give it a "deeper" plot than Mario. Which as time has shown just failed.
 
The other big problem is the "Massive Speed" feeling that the 2D games created is just really really hard to convert to 3D without basically taking control away from the player. Since Mario never had to deal with that expectation it easily succeeded at going from 2D to 3D.
 
Also everybody hates new characters that don't add anything interesting.

#21 Posted by AndrewB (7624 posts) -

I'd like to do a study to figure out the age of Sonic fans compared to where the latest game that appealed to them is in the series. It seems like the older you are, the less you liked more recent Sonic games.  
 
For instance, I was a fan of everything from Sonic 1 through Sonic 3 and Knuckles (later discovering that CD was also a pretty good Sonic game, but at the time, I didn't own a Sega CD and never got to check it out). The Giant Bomb crew is a little older than me, and they all seem to agree it ended with Sonic 2, talking about how the art style of 3 was crap (when I thought it was the best in the series, even knowing how cheesy the Sonic attitude had become). Then there are a ton of people who like everything up to and including Adventure, when I see Adventure as a pile of garbage. 
 
My hypothesis is that it must have something to do with age and childhood nostalgia. There's some cutoff point where people became "too old" for Sonic. I've been trying to take a look back at older Sonic games so I can properly compare them to Sonic 4, and it's really gotten me to question how much of my love for the original games is based on the fact that I was a kid when I played them. I'm honestly not sure if my vision has been clouded by my childhood. All I know is that I can totally pick up any of those older Sonic games today and still enjoy playing them.

#22 Posted by agentboolen (1789 posts) -
@CocoRodriguez:  Are you saying Big the Cat never added anything interesting    ;)
#23 Posted by teh_pwnzorer (1482 posts) -

Sonic is pinball with a hedgehog in place of the ball.  They hadn't implemented that in their 3d sonic games, as far as I know.

#24 Posted by Baillie (4182 posts) -

How can you like Sonic Adventure and then go on to dislike the future games? That doesn't make ANY sense. Sonic 4 is pretty good, I just don't like the sluggish feel to it, other than that, it's straight up sonic 4 with ugly sonic.

#25 Posted by JonathanMoore (1858 posts) -

When Adventure 2 hit, everything went downhill.
 
Hopin' for Colors.

#26 Posted by MysteriousBob (6272 posts) -
@teh_pwnzorer said:
" Sonic is pinball with a hedgehog in place of the ball.  They hadn't implemented that in their 3d sonic games, as far as I know. "
Sonic Heroes had a fairly decent casino stage, if I remember correctly. I say 'decent', I was only 13 when I last played it. 
 
@Baillie said:
" How can you like Sonic Adventure and then go on to dislike the future games?  "
Yeah, its like saying you love Tekken 3 but hate Tekken Tag (which I have heard people say). Its the same fucking gameplay. 
 
@JonathanMoore said:
" When Adventure hit, everything went downhill. "
Fixed.
#27 Posted by TheFreeMan (2712 posts) -

I actually really liked the Rush games (well, the first one at least), as well as the Advance games. Sonic's still solid on the portables, to me.

#28 Posted by MisterMouse (3554 posts) -

well maybe it isnt sonic games became horrible, everything else just became infinitely better

#29 Posted by Mmmslash (2168 posts) -

To be honest, I think Sonic fans are all wearing rose-tinted glasses. Those first games weren't all that amazing, they were just new. Going insanely fast, a pretty cool mascot? Great, fantastic, except you need more than that nowadays. So now when everyone was bitching "GIVE US BACK OLD SONIC YOU SUCKERS", you finally got it, and guess what? It's kind of middling. Because Sonic is a middling concept, and hasn't aged well over the last 15 years.

#30 Posted by evanbrau (1162 posts) -

Putting in a story beyond "kill Robotnik" and characters beyond Sonic, also the furry fans.

#31 Posted by LiquidPrince (15952 posts) -

Sonic 4 isn't that bad... People just have different expectations and Sonic Team just doesn't know what people want. They release 3D people hate it. They release 2D people hate it. They don't release and people go where he hell is the new Sonic. They do release and people go stop releasing Sonic. It's a vicious cycle.

#32 Posted by MysteriousBob (6272 posts) -
@TheFreeMan: Funny, I love the Mega Drive games (apart from CD which is horribly over rated) and I really like Sonic Advance 1 and 3. I find Advance 2 and the Rush games just consist of holding right until you win so I'm not fond of them whatsoever. 
 
I find it sad how nobody has even heard of the best incarnation of Sonic which was his appearance in Sonic the Comic. Not to be mistaken for the inferior American comic. STC managed, believe it or not, to turn Sonic into a fairly deep and interesting character. Hell, they even made Amy Rose into an ass kicking heroine. I shit you not, they were awesome comics. If you have ever had any fondness for Sonic I suggest you look them up.
#33 Posted by Yanngc33 (4496 posts) -
@tranquilchaos:
unfortunately I'm afraid that's the truth :(
#34 Posted by zityz (2360 posts) -

Sonic started to go downhill when Sega thought Sonic was Mario and started making those adventure games. Only human to ever be included in a sonic game should be Robotnik (Eggman)

#35 Posted by teh_pwnzorer (1482 posts) -
@MysteriousBob said:
" @teh_pwnzorer said:
" Sonic is pinball with a hedgehog in place of the ball.  They hadn't implemented that in their 3d sonic games, as far as I know. "
Sonic Heroes had a fairly decent casino stage, if I remember correctly. I say 'decent', I was only 13 when I last played it. 

I see.
#36 Posted by RiotBananas (3600 posts) -

Sonic has been terrible since day one. 
 
Hold right. 
 
Amazing game.

#37 Posted by MrKlorox (11209 posts) -

Other games came out that were better. Raising the acceptable gameplay standards of video games.

#38 Posted by yakov456 (1908 posts) -

They never were good. I would go back and play Bonk's Adventure before playing a Sonic game again.

#39 Posted by odintal (1095 posts) -

for me it got worse as they started pumping in more characters every game. 
they could have stopped with knuckles.

#40 Posted by Jost1 (2077 posts) -

Swiftly, and without mercy.
 
Hope that answers it.

#41 Posted by BBQBram (2236 posts) -
@RiotBananas said:
" Sonic has been terrible since day one.  Hold right.  Amazing game. "
This, sadly, has more truth to it than we might like to admit. I also think it has something to do with the general aesthetic and attitude. Instead of making a timeless character like, say, Mickey Mouse or Mario, they made a character that was so firmly rooted in the 90's idea of 'cool' that he just comes off as super old and hokey now.

#42 Posted by bwmcmaste (845 posts) -
@Stefan said:
  That's what Sonic's world should look like! Oh and YES, the NAME IS ROBOTNIK! "
Thank you for a trip down memory lane.  
 
The last Sonic game I enjoyed (as I have played a few since then) was Sonic 2 for my Sega Genesis. I remember playing plenty of Sonic 2, NHL '94, Shadowrunner, and Golden Axe. Ah, those were the days.
#43 Posted by jackbag (209 posts) -

They became horrible because Sonic Team (or whoeverthefuck) decided they should involve more than running really fast through loops and shit. Trying to shoehorn Sonic into other formats was a terrible idea.
 
Not that they were ever all that great to begin with. Sonic's probably the most overrated classic series in history.

#44 Posted by HandsomeDead (11863 posts) -

They were all bad. You just didn't know any better.

#45 Edited by Insectecutor (1186 posts) -

Sonic was always bad from a mechanical standpoint . The character's primary attribute is speed. Going fast is fun. But going fast means you can't play the game, so any fast part is pretty much "whoooaaaahh" automatic rollercoaster eyecandy. This gets pretty old pretty fast, and any obstacle results in a dead stop which is not fun. During these slow bits you spend a great deal of time getting up to speed again which is not fun.
 
To solve this problem Sega could pull back the camera so you see more of what's ahead the faster you go, or shift the game into a 3D perspective, but doing that makes the feeling of speed less apparent and diminishes the main attraction of the game.
 
So it's a game that's only good when you aren't playing it. In order to fix this Sega just need to make sonic an incredibly agile character so he can traverse the world in a speedy, dynamic way instead of relying simply on raw straight-line speed, but that fundamentally changes the game and is clearly not something they are willing to look into. 
 
What attracted people to Sonic was playground rivalry between those who's mum got them a Genesis/MegaDrive, and those who's mum got them a SNES. It was marketing, flashy lights and good music. It was a highly polished game designed to arm Sega's platoons of fans against Nintendo's market dominance and to an eight-year-old it fucking worked. It worked for me, Sonic looked amazing on the face of it, but dig down into the actual gameplay and you find it was pretty much posturing and not much else.
 
Perhaps they should make a Sonic game where the hedgehog finally comes up against his ultimate enemy, the motor car, and flat-out loses in front of all his bawling shitty friends, who then get mauled by wolves.

#46 Posted by DonPixel (2585 posts) -

It didn´t "become" it always was

#47 Posted by Shadow (4980 posts) -

I don't care what anyone says.  I absolutely love Sonic Unleashed

#48 Posted by FreakAche (2953 posts) -

The people saying that Sonic games are just about holding right and jumping every once and a while have obviously never played past the first level in a Sonic game.

#49 Posted by Br26 (8 posts) -

They got all buggy and unplayable. Plus Sega releases Sonic games like once a year with little regard for quality control.

#50 Posted by TheHBK (5486 posts) -

When they just kept cramming in new characters and trying to create a real story, all hope was lost.  Shadow is a piece of shit character.  He uses guns?  What the fuck man?!?  Who gives a rats ass if hes a clone or there is some plot to destroy the world.  Really?  Whats the fucking story in Mario games?  Bowser stole my woman, I'ma kick his ass.  Thats all sonic needs.  Robotnik is doing some shit with these crystals?  Let me run real fast and bang on his hover chair. 
The first sonic adventure was great.  It has not held up because its problems are now pretty glaring.  The clipping and draw distance are a big one.  But the sonic only levels were all fucking sweet.  The story in that game was retarded.  But then they try to add rails and shit.  Nah uh son.  For a 3d sonic, go back to how Sonic Adventure did it and fix the issues.  No retard story please.

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