Square-Enix 2008 profit down 74%

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#1 Posted by Throne (70 posts) -
#2 Posted by BiggerBomb (6944 posts) -

I think that this is what happens when you do the same thing for more than a decade.

#3 Posted by zitosilva (1837 posts) -
Throne said:
"So, what do you guys think of this? Square needs to get their act together. They need to start bringing out PS3 titles simultaneously with the 360. There are 2.5 million PS3s in Japan while there are 800,000 360s, so I think not delaying the PS3 version will be a good thing for them. 

http://chartget.blogspot.com/2008/11/japan-square-enix-2008-unit-sales-down.html"
But I don't think this is happening exclusively because of the lack of ps3 support. It is to some degree, but I don't think that the general quality of the las two 360 games were a lot of help. I can't say anything about profit because I haven't seen the number, but they haven't been very well loved, neither by critics nor by gamers.
#4 Posted by Throne (70 posts) -
zitosilva said:
"Throne said:
"So, what do you guys think of this? Square needs to get their act together. They need to start bringing out PS3 titles simultaneously with the 360. There are 2.5 million PS3s in Japan while there are 800,000 360s, so I think not delaying the PS3 version will be a good thing for them. 

http://chartget.blogspot.com/2008/11/japan-square-enix-2008-unit-sales-down.html"
But I don't think this is happening exclusively because of the lack of ps3 support. It is to some degree, but I don't think that the general quality of the las two 360 games were a lot of help. I can't say anything about profit because I haven't seen the number, but they haven't been very well loved, neither by critics nor by gamers."
I'd like to believe that, but they still have Final Fantasy XIII, and that game is still the number 1 most wanted game in Japan, still! I'm guessing all Square is really good for these days in the FF series. And even with the remakes, their profit is just plundering.
#5 Posted by daniel_beck_90 (3159 posts) -

this does not surprise me a bit

#6 Posted by BiggerBomb (6944 posts) -
zitosilva said:
"Throne said:
"So, what do you guys think of this? Square needs to get their act together. They need to start bringing out PS3 titles simultaneously with the 360. There are 2.5 million PS3s in Japan while there are 800,000 360s, so I think not delaying the PS3 version will be a good thing for them. 

http://chartget.blogspot.com/2008/11/japan-square-enix-2008-unit-sales-down.html"
But I don't think this is happening exclusively because of the lack of ps3 support. It is to some degree, but I don't think that the general quality of the las two 360 games were a lot of help. I can't say anything about profit because I haven't seen the number, but they haven't been very well loved, neither by critics nor by gamers."

It isn't a problem with PS3 support, it's a problem with SquareEnix support. They are not good game developers and so they do not make money. If you believe they used to have talent, so be it. But they lost any and all of it, long ago.
#7 Posted by sloppyjoe (406 posts) -

Well we haven't seen a "real" Dragon Quest game on Wii yet, either...

#8 Posted by Throne (70 posts) -
BiggerBomb said:
"zitosilva said:
"Throne said:
"So, what do you guys think of this? Square needs to get their act together. They need to start bringing out PS3 titles simultaneously with the 360. There are 2.5 million PS3s in Japan while there are 800,000 360s, so I think not delaying the PS3 version will be a good thing for them. 

http://chartget.blogspot.com/2008/11/japan-square-enix-2008-unit-sales-down.html"
But I don't think this is happening exclusively because of the lack of ps3 support. It is to some degree, but I don't think that the general quality of the las two 360 games were a lot of help. I can't say anything about profit because I haven't seen the number, but they haven't been very well loved, neither by critics nor by gamers."

It isn't a problem with PS3 support, it's a problem with SquareEnix support. They are not good game developers and so they do not make money. If you believe they used to have talent, so be it. But they lost any and all of it, long ago."
I agree. They lost a lot of credibility when SquareSoft became SquareEnix. And all the games that they released thus far (excluding FFX) were really not that fun.
#9 Posted by brukaoru (5079 posts) -

Profits will go back up whenever the next Final Fantasy games release.

Seriously though they released fewer games this year than last year, which is one reason why sales are down comparatively.  Also, this is in Japan. The sales for the 360 just started to increase significantly in the last few months there and some of the few games they released this year happened to be 360 exclusives.

#10 Posted by Tearhead (2104 posts) -

Bring out a FFVII remake! Done!

#11 Posted by ZenaxPure (2569 posts) -
brukaoru said:
"Profits will go back up whenever the next Final Fantasy games release.

Seriously though they released fewer games this year than last year, which is one reason why sales are down comparatively.  Also, this is in Japan. The sales for the 360 just started to increase significantly in the last few months there and some of the few games they released this year happened to be 360 exclusives."
This, seriously.
#12 Edited by zitosilva (1837 posts) -
brukaoru said:
"Profits will go back up whenever the next Final Fantasy games release.

Seriously though they released fewer games this year than last year, which is one reason why sales are down comparatively.  Also, this is in Japan. The sales for the 360 just started to increase significantly in the last few months there and some of the few games they released this year happened to be 360 exclusives."
I don't know, I have my doubts abou this. I think that FF XII really put a lot of players away from that state of "If it's Final Fantay it is good and I'll buy it right away!". I know a lot of people like it, but, at least that's my impression, a great deal of them were extremely disappointed with the game's story and characters.

I really want to believe that FF XIII will be a good game, but wanting rarely adds up to anything.
#13 Posted by pause422 (6153 posts) -

I'm glad, I hope it goes down even further. They've been releasing nothing but complete shit, and I feel nothing for this.

#14 Posted by Drebin_893 (2872 posts) -

I guess that's what happens when you release fuck all.

#15 Posted by Pibo47 (3166 posts) -
BiggerBomb said:
"I think that this is what happens when you do the same thing for more than a decade."
Amen.
#16 Posted by Ossi (1229 posts) -

Well, with the lack of big hit releases by Square i'm not surprised. Love them to death but come on - it's taking so long.

#17 Edited by CrimsonAngel (28 posts) -

it is not only the releases.

The PS3 Crowd is hungry for Jrpg's the 360 crowd is not.
It is that simple.

They are not trying to sell to the market that actually want the Jrpg's instead they are going for the 360 market that already have a few Good Jrpg's to tie them over.

Who ever is in charge over there is somewhat of a moron.
Basic Business 1o1 says that you sell to the people who wants your crap instead of selling them to the saturated market.

#18 Edited by Keeng (998 posts) -
pause422 said:
"I'm glad, I hope it goes down even further. They've been releasing nothing but complete shit, and I feel nothing for this."
I love Square-Enix and FF8, 10, 11, and 12 are basically my favorite games of all time. That said, they've failed this generation. No one bought a 360 for their games so they shouldn't be making games for it. It's flat out stupid business. More important than that though, they should be making good games! There was a time when Square made great original IPs like Parasite Eve and Vagrant Story that complimented the FF games. Now they're shoveling unfinished, untested crap for 360 and DS and wondering why the market is the way it is. So I agree with pause422. I think a company that gives crap to its supporters deserves a decrease in profits and I would love to see it get worse for them.
CrimsonAngel said:
"it is not only the releases.

The PS3 Crowd is hungry for Jrpg's the 360 crowd is not.
It is that simple.

They are not trying to sell to the market that actually want the Jrpg's instead they are going for the 360 market that already have a few Good Jrpg's to tie them over.

Who ever is in charge over there is somewhat of a moron.
Basic Business 1o1 says that you sell to the people who wants your crap instead of selling them to the saturated market."
Exactly. 
#19 Posted by Sparky_Buzzsaw (5797 posts) -

I'm still a fan of Square Enix, though they need to rein in their quality control.  Some of the issues with Last Remnant and Infinite Undiscovery held the games back, while a lack of strong PR work for either game kept them from the mainstream.

With FFXIII on the horizon, I imagine their profits will soar through the roof.

Moderator Online
#20 Posted by h8smikemoore (155 posts) -

a lot of game developers are going through rough times. if theyre anything like most corporations, theyll blame the consumers.

However, its good. This will force them to innovate and to actually do what people WANT. Also, I personally hate Final Fantasy, so maybe theyll make something that im interested in. Maybe another Bushido Blade? Id buy that.

#21 Edited by ZenaxPure (2569 posts) -
Keeng said:
" Now they're shoveling unfinished, untested crap for 360 and DS and wondering why the market is the way it is. "
Jeez, I am unsure how many times we have been over this now, but once again: Square has only developed one game this generation for the 360 which is very new and most people have probably not even played yet.

As for the DS - I have yet to play it but isn't TWEWY supposed to be one of the better DS titles from this year?
#22 Posted by chililili (1328 posts) -

They really should get out a fixed Last Remnant out for the ps3. I'm gonna get Valkyria Chronicles anyway, someone has to start giving RPG loving to the ps3 ASAP.

#23 Posted by AndrewGaspar (2418 posts) -

That's what happens when you don't release a Final Fantasy.

#24 Posted by shadows_kill (3165 posts) -
chililili said:
"They really should get out a fixed Last Remnant out for the ps3. I'm gonna get Valkyria Chronicles anyway, someone has to start giving RPG loving to the ps3 ASAP."
i heard eternal sonata is really good too. try the demo for both :P

but they should try to release more quality titles and advertise for them. like infinate undiscovery and last remnant both released with not that much info or ads (even tho there were a couple for last remnant ive seen)
#25 Posted by DuhQbnSiLo (2139 posts) -

No Final Fantasy

#26 Posted by shadows_kill (3165 posts) -
AndrewGaspar said:
"That's what happens when you don't release a Final Fantasy."
DuhQbnSiLo said:
"No Final Fantasy"
final fantasy 4 not count?
#27 Posted by Will1Lucky (408 posts) -
shadows_kill said:
"AndrewGaspar said:
"That's what happens when you don't release a Final Fantasy."
DuhQbnSiLo said:
"No Final Fantasy"
final fantasy 4 not count?"
Not exactly a big release was it?
#28 Posted by shadows_kill (3165 posts) -
Will1Lucky said:
"shadows_kill said:
"AndrewGaspar said:
"That's what happens when you don't release a Final Fantasy."
DuhQbnSiLo said:
"No Final Fantasy"
final fantasy 4 not count?"
Not exactly a big release was it?"
still a final fantasy unless there talking about a console one not a handheld.
#29 Posted by Soulglove (143 posts) -

I haven't played an rpg since FFX because Square hasn't released anything decent for Sony. Square-Enix is like Lu Bu and they will get caught sleeping by Microsoft, the Kingdom of Wei, and will get their head cut off for showing no loyalty for anyone. History will repeat itself in such a manner.

#30 Edited by Alexander (1720 posts) -

Sounds like FFXIII needs to get that Japanese 360 release.

#31 Posted by efrucht (639 posts) -

Serves them right for releasing 360 exclusives, and screwing over all of their fans on the PS3.

#32 Edited by SmugDarkLoser (4619 posts) -

You guys are all talking about the 360 exclusives, but umm... how about bringing out games! they barely did any.  And by that, this could only take into consideration Infinite Undiscovery which is techically tri-ace's game, so the profit may be split weird

That being said, Infinite Undiscovery sold quite well for a jrpg on any platform at 340,000 units and Last Remnant sold 200,000 in it's first week (week 2 numbers not in yet)

#33 Posted by EvilTwin (3324 posts) -
CrimsonAngel said:
"it is not only the releases.

The PS3 Crowd is hungry for Jrpg's the 360 crowd is not.
It is that simple.
I wouldn't say it is that simple.  What about the fact that neither of the best JRPGs on the 360 are Square published or developed. 
#34 Posted by AndrewGaspar (2418 posts) -
SmugDarkLoser said:
"You guys are all talking about the 360 exclusives, but umm... how about bringing out games! they barely did any.  And by that, this could only take into consideration Infinite Undiscovery which is techically tri-ace's game, so the profit may be split weird

That being said, Infinite Undiscovery sold quite well for a jrpg on any platform at 340,000 units and Last Remnant sold 200,000 in it's first week (week 2 numbers not in yet)"
If those had come out on PS3, I bet their sales would be double or triple that because of the demand in Japan.
#35 Posted by chililili (1328 posts) -
EvilTwin said:
"CrimsonAngel said:
"it is not only the releases.

The PS3 Crowd is hungry for Jrpg's the 360 crowd is not.
It is that simple.
I wouldn't say it is that simple.  What about the fact that neither of the best JRPGs on the 360 are Square published or developed. "
I bought my ps3 for FFXIII and JRPGs I'm guessing a lot of people did as well. Why? Well because even though no one likes talking about it I remember a time when FFXIII had a release date, it was the holiday season of last year, then it got pushed and pushed and it might come out holiday next year. I bought my ps3 for that. It never came and the lack of JRPGs has been disturbing, also many japanese people buy JRPGs and the ps3 has the biggest install base in Japan so it would make sense that we'd get JRPGs.
#36 Posted by LiquidPrince (15606 posts) -

That's what happens when a Japanese company ditches the PS3 to release games on an American console that isn't popular in their own turf.

#37 Posted by Keeng (998 posts) -

I should give them credit for Crisis Core because I thought that was the third or fourth best game of this year. Other than that it doesn't surprise me that their other releases (the remakes, the two 360 games) and their bad business decisions have led them down the path they're on.

#38 Posted by atejas (3057 posts) -

A loss well deserved. Their recent output has been sub-par.

#39 Posted by Wuffi (246 posts) -

make some good games maybe that would help

#40 Posted by AuthenticM (3672 posts) -

Their profits wouldn't be that low if they were actually releasing good games.

#41 Posted by Pibo47 (3166 posts) -
AuthenticM said:
"Their profits wouldn't be that low if they were actually releasing good games."
IMO they shouldnt have any profits, because all of their games suck.
#42 Posted by Arkthemaniac (6535 posts) -

They're gonna bitch about casual gamers.

#43 Posted by BiggerBomb (6944 posts) -
LiquidPrince said:
"That's what happens when a Japanese company ditches the PS3 to release games on an American console that isn't popular in their own turf."

No...

That's what happens when any company doesn't make good games.
#44 Posted by Meowayne (6084 posts) -

Alright! How many of you have actually read the article, hm?

According to the article:

In 2007, Square-Enix released 18 titles, including a new Final Fantasy for a popular system (Revenant Wings) and two Dragon Quest games (Swords and the DS remake of IV)
In 2008, Square-Enix released only 11 titles, few of them noteworthy.

The fact that in 2008 the company made a lot less money shouldn't surprise anyone, nor is it in any way significant. The year Final Fantasy XIII is released will see a profit up of probably even more %.

One should also wonder where "The World Ends With You" (2007) and "Chrono Trigger DS" (2008) are, as they're both not listed in the numbers this article is based on...



Disclaimer: I don't like the company, either. I'm as happy as the next dude if Square-Enix has profit problems. But they don't.

#45 Posted by Meowayne (6084 posts) -

Yeah, according to Media Create Sales, Chrono Trigger DS alone sold 280k copies in the last month... So much for Square Enix's "huge profit down."

#46 Posted by Keeng (998 posts) -
Meowayne said:
"Yeah, according to Media Create Sales, Chrono Trigger DS alone sold 280k copies in the last month... So much for Square Enix's "huge profit down."

"
heh. I believe you. And I guess it kind of makes sense considering that they're still just as grandiose and famous as they've always been. They haven't really fallen out of the public consciousness like Midway did. I'm still pissed at them though. They have burnt my toast and no amount of scraping will remove the black stuff.
/thread
#47 Posted by Ket87 (441 posts) -

Square hasn't put out anything great outside of Kingdom Hearts since 2000 with the release of FFIX and Chrono Cross. Everything since then has been crap. Final Fantasy has pretty much been destroyed and the only thing going for it now at this point is Versus which essentially isn't even a FF considering its being developed by people from the Kingdom Hearts team. The loss of Hironobu Sakaguchi and the merger with Enix has ruined that company beyond repair.

#48 Edited by SmugDarkLoser (4619 posts) -
Ket87 said:
"Square hasn't put out anything great outside of Kingdom Hearts since 2000 with the release of FFIX and Chrono Cross. Everything since then has been crap. Final Fantasy has pretty much been destroyed and the only thing going for it now at this point is Versus which essentially isn't even a FF considering its being developed by people from the Kingdom Hearts team. The loss of Hironobu Sakaguchi and the merger with Enix has ruined that company beyond repair."

Wrong!  
Final Fantasy 10 was freaking awesome.  10-2 was still pretty good but not up to Final Fantasy's name.  11 wasn't really a final fantasy nor 12.

Outside of FF, Last Remnant was great.  FF13 will be awesome.  Looks heavily inspired by FF7. 

And mentioning Sakaguchi- Mistwalker also makes great rpgs (well I enjoyed LO and BD a lot, cry on's sounds like it could be good)
Infinite Undiscovery was pretty decent, but not great, so it doesn't exactly match your definition. 

Square is just getting hate on  some forums because, well, essentially the majority of early PS3 adopters feel screwed over because as of now, pretty much all jrpg support (aside from WKC) will probably end up on the 360 (we all know versus is gonna wind up there eventually)
#49 Posted by LiquidPrince (15606 posts) -
BiggerBomb said:
"LiquidPrince said:
"That's what happens when a Japanese company ditches the PS3 to release games on an American console that isn't popular in their own turf."

No...

That's what happens when any company doesn't make good games."

That's true, although my point is also valid. I agree with your statement though.

#50 Posted by jakob187 (21503 posts) -

Well, here's the problem that I see:

Square Enix is introducing a good handful of new IPs to the public, but they are failing to deliver on their herald franchises in this gen.  FFXIII still hasn't seen the light of day, and they rarely show anything for the game.  Star Ocean finally has a new game coming out.

Other than that, though...they have a ton of unknown IPs that aren't getting the crazy-stellar coverage that past original IPs from the company got.  The Last Remnant didn't get a very good buzz going, even to the point that there weren't really any reviews out for the thing right off the bat.  Infinite Undiscovery had a lot of cool ads in magazines, sure...but what kind of coverage did it honestly get that made people notice?

On top of that, Square Enix has grown stale.  They continually try to find new ways to enhance the same old formula, but the same old formula blows when you compare it to all the other shit that it out there now.  They use static sets of armor and weaponry for every character in almost every FF game, and that sucks ass.  Give me some room to breathe with those characters and let me make them my own.  I understand the need to keep things static so that the story fits together and the characters match exactly what the developers want them to be...but if you can't give some room to breathe, then you will drown.

What they need to do is this:  stop rehashing their old games onto the DS, put some serious money behind campaigns for original IPs to get people thoroughly interested in them, and put FFXIII out finally!!!  If they can't do all of that together, then they are simply turning themselves into a niche company, and they might as well get ready to compete against Atlus of all publishers.  By no means is that a derogatory remark towards Atlus, as those guys put out TONS of quality games...but the thing is that Atlus PUMPS THEM OUT!!!  They don't sit on a game forever.  SMT games come out all the damn time basically, and they are ALWAYS good!  So, what the hell is with Square taking so long?  They want high-end graphics?  Shit, SMT doesn't have high-end graphics...and it resides on PS2 for the most part...and yet the franchise is far better received than most of what SE puts out.

Rant over.

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