What did Square do this generation?

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#1 Posted by Abendlaender (2768 posts) -

Seeing how the PS4 will be unveiled (hopefully) in less than 72 hours, I was thinking a bit about this generation and....did Square just kinda...skip this gen? And I'm not talking about Square Eidos but Square Enix Japan. Did they release any game on home consoles beside Final Fantasy XIII? Any game that people really liked? I know they did some awesome (and some less awesome) handheld stuff but I can't think of any game Square released on home consoles this gen besides FF and this boggles my mind....

#2 Edited by EXTomar (4530 posts) -

Whether we admit it or not, FF13 and FF13-2 were the most advanced and polished game offered from Japan at the time. Like it or not, that is an accomplishment compared with its contemporaries.

#3 Edited by Abendlaender (2768 posts) -

@extomar: I haven't played them cause I don't really care about FF but wether they are "advanced and polished" or not....people didn't really like them, right?

#4 Edited by IIGrayFoxII (303 posts) -
  
#5 Edited by MC_Hify (322 posts) -
#6 Edited by Nilazz (608 posts) -

Still can't believe we haven't seen Kingdom Hearts 3 yet. Square-Enix did however distribute a couple of kick ass games this gen.

#7 Posted by believer258 (11685 posts) -

Square - and JRPG developers in general - seem to be aiming mostly for handhelds. If you want JRPG's then you probably need one of those.

Online
#8 Posted by MildMolasses (3214 posts) -
#9 Posted by MikkaQ (10270 posts) -

As a dev they haven't made anything good since FF12 and even that was the first good game they had made in a decade so their lack of presence doesn't bother me.

#10 Posted by Animasta (14651 posts) -

13-2 was great, by the way! 13 wasn't good but 13-2 is a fantastic game.

#11 Posted by Flappy (2143 posts) -

@animasta said:

13-2 was great, by the way! 13 wasn't good but 13-2 is a fantastic game.

I wouldn't go so far as to call 13-2 "fantastic," but it was much better than 13. What I've seen/heard from Lightning Returns sounds interesting, to say the least. Almost Majora's Mask-like.

#12 Posted by Animasta (14651 posts) -

@flappy said:

@animasta said:

13-2 was great, by the way! 13 wasn't good but 13-2 is a fantastic game.

I wouldn't go so far as to call 13-2 "fantastic," but it was much better than 13. What I've seen/heard from Lightning Returns sounds interesting, to say the least. Almost Majora's Mask-like.

eh personal opinions to be sure but I really really liked 13-2, it's probably my second favorite final fantasy after 12.

This may be because it reminds me of Nier though :3

also lightening returns looks interesting but I have no idea how the fuck it's going to play. I don't mean the battles but I mean the other stuff (story stuff and quests)

#13 Edited by BisonHero (6256 posts) -

@abendlaender: I'm assuming you're talking about games that Square Enix Japan developed? Because Square Enix published a fuckload of games by Japanese devs, some of them on home consoles.

So going on from that assumption, the problem with your question is that you think it's strange that Square Enix has mostly made handheld games this generation. The fact is, TONS of Japanese devs are doing exactly that, for a lot of reasons.

In general, Western-developed games are the big sellers in North America and Europe, with a small number of exceptions like Nintendo franchises, and Final Fantasy and Street Fighter. This is dramatically different from the days of the NES and SNES and N64, when a majority of the Western devs were mostly ignoring consoles and working on PC; publishers have since realized people can't be bothered to figure out how to put together and maintain a gaming PC, and all the game dev money profit is to be had on consoles. Better selling Western-published games means less market share for Japanese publishers. They don't have the pseudo-monopoly they used to. However, Japanese games still sell well in Japan, where Western-made games barely sell, relatively. This has affected all Japanese publishers this generation, to the point that they are focusing more than ever on making games that largely cater to a Japanese audience, because Japan is no longer the only game in town on home consoles, and Western publishers seem to have a better sense of what Western gamers want. Acquiring Eidos to help put some Westerner money in the Square Enix coffers was a brilliant maneuver, and you could almost go so far as to say that the Eidos arm of Square Enix has become the "oh god put out console games that Westerners will buy" division.

This increased focus on publishing games that cater to the Japanese market has resulted in Square Enix making a lot of handheld and mobile games. Why? Several reasons. REASON ONE: Japan is this weird sequestered bubble from the trends of the rest of the world, because Japan is like the one country in the world where handhelds absolutely crush consoles (this phenomenon may be the case in other Asian countries or something, I'm not positive). Examples (as up to date as Wikipedia has info on them):

  • US: PS3 sells 13.5 million, PSP sells 17 million (1.3:1 in favour of PSP)
  • Japan: PS3 sells 6 million, PSP sells 15 million (2.5:1 in favour of PSP) [also, the numbers I grabbed from Wikipedia for the PSP in Japan were 1.5 years behind the PS3 numbers, so in reality the PSP had sold a few more million by the time the PS3 reached 6 million)
  • US: Wii sells 47.5 million, DS sells 59.7 million (1.3:1 in favour of DS)
  • Japan: Wii sells 12.7 million, DS sells 33 million (2.6:1 in favour of DS)

And for no reason:

  • US: Xbox 360 sells 25.4 million
  • Japan: Xbox 360 sells 1.5 million

Why are handhelds so popular in Japan? Population density plays a role, allowing the country to have mass transit for a high percentage of its citizens, meaning children and adults alike can take buses and trains to and from their homes. This gives a decent chunk of time each day to either read on mass transit or play a handheld on mass transit. It also allows ad-hoc wireless multiplayer (and StreetPass) to happen often. I'm less clear on why consoles don't flourish quite as much, but I gather that a lot of the 18-30-year-old men that buy a lot of consoles in America don't exist in Japan because that same demographic is either incredibly focused on university entrance exams, or university itself, or working long hours at their new job (desperate for a promotion) so they get home late and don't have much time to play a console.

REASON TWO: When it comes down to it, a project as huge as a console JRPG requires a huge budget. They're costly, if you want to make a good one. You don't make a game like that unless you also expect a huge financial return on that game. Frankly, the popularity of the JRPG has dwindled internationally, to the point that there really isn't the same guarantee that a JRPG sells really well outside of Japan, unless it's got huge brand recognition like Final Fantasy does (thus the reason that Square Enix developed FFXIII, FFXIII-2, and FFXIV for consoles, though that last one didn't happen for other reasons). The funds needed to make AAA console games nearly require that it be a worldwide game (if the game is a complicated genre) just to expand the pool of potential buyers, and if you know your company has shifted focus to make games largely for the Japanese, that's not enough potential sales to cover the cost of this pricey console RPG you're planning.

Square Enix also did Last Remnant on consoles, and guess what? It was a small blip on the radar for most people because it was an original game, not part of an existing series. You forgot about it yourself until people mentioned it in this thread. I'm sure that game cost a lot to make, and who knows if it made that money back. It certainly didn't sell as well as FFXIII. I imagine Last Remnant was probably a pretty harsh lesson in terms of whether they can still put out original console games. Square Enix Japan mostly develops JRPGs, and JRPG development in general has shifted to handhelds because that's the only way it is profitable. JRPGs are only guaranteed to sell in Japan these days (unless they're called Final Fantasy), and making a handheld or mobile game requires dramatically lower production costs (thus risk) than making an elaborate, beautiful console JRPG. If anything, the Japanese people want you to make JRPGs on handhelds, because it's what they're playing all the time. That's why you see Dragon Quest and Kingdom Hearts, and original games like The World Ends With You, shifting to handhelds.

I hope that answers your question. Before I started typing this, I swear I envisioned this post being like a single paragraph. :S

#14 Posted by Addfwyn (1917 posts) -

FFXIII I enjoyed immensely, FFXIII-2 I enjoyed even more. They were two of my favourite RPGs this generation unless we count Persona 4: Golden. The Tactics Ogre remake is basically the best possible way you could do a remake.

There are the Dragon Quest games, which are always good. I personally loved IX. The World Ends With You is one of my favourite games period.

If you are relegating it to purely home console, they haven't released a ton because well...JRPGs (which is what SE specializes at) are pretty much a portable thing right now. Which makes sense, with way more gaming being done on portables. Still, XIII and XIII-2 and (I assume) Lightning Returns is 3 FF games on the PS3. PS3 had 2 as well if you don't count FFXI.

@mikkaq said:

As a dev they haven't made anything good since FF12 and even that was the first good game they had made in a decade so their lack of presence doesn't bother me.

Interestingly, you list one of the only games they've made I didn't really like as their only good game. I guess tastes differ widely.

#15 Posted by Flappy (2143 posts) -

@animasta: I see what you mean. Maybe I'm just a bit hesitant to give the game more credit because I wasn't really engaged all the way through. The story made more sense than the original, but it was really the music/gameplay that kept me going.

Nier is awesome and I'm a bad person for not finishing it. I got to the awesome part of my first playthrough...then I just randomly stopped playing. So much guilt.

As far as Lightning Returns goes, it should be a good experience if it improves upon 13-2 in a meaningful way.

#16 Posted by Addfwyn (1917 posts) -

Why are handhelds so popular in Japan? Population density plays a role, allowing the country to have mass transit for a high percentage of its citizens, meaning children and adults alike can take buses and trains to and from their homes. This gives a decent chunk of time each day to either read on mass transit or play a handheld on mass transit. It also allows ad-hoc wireless multiplayer (and StreetPass) to happen often. I'm less clear on why consoles don't flourish quite as much, but I gather that a lot of the 18-30-year-old men that buy a lot of consoles in America don't exist in Japan because that same demographic is either incredibly focused on university entrance exams, or university itself, or working long hours at their new job (desperate for a promotion) so they get home late and don't have much time to play a console.

Well, university itself here is fairly insignificant, though I imagine most university students probably get home too intoxicated to play a console. Otherwise you are pretty much spot on, I can only rarely play a console because I get home after midnight and get up for work at 7-8 AM. Doesn't leave much time to really sit down and play a game. Whereas the commute to/from work every day is a great time to pull out the DS or Vita and game for a bit. I've played maybe 5 hours of ME3 since it came out. I've played over 40 hours of Persona 4 Golden, entirely on commutes.

#17 Posted by Animasta (14651 posts) -

@flappy: well we've seen the battle system which looks quite different already, so I don't know if improve upon is necessarily the right word...

#18 Posted by Abendlaender (2768 posts) -

A sizeable amount of words

Ha! Well, I almost feel bad for saying this, but I knew most of that (sorry, no seriously...sorry)
It just feels so weird to me that there are no real high-caliber games from SE out on the home consoles in the west. For me, at least during the PS2 era, Square was always THE japanese developer. And now they seem almost irrelevant (well, at least if I don't count Eidos which is kinda unfair). It just really weirds me out, that the first few games I think of when I think about the previously glorious Square Enix are Sleeping Dogs and Just Cause 2.
I mean Capcom still makes console games AND handheld. Konami...okay Konami only makes Metal Gear and ProEvo nowadays (and sometimes Castlevania), but Sega puts out a lot of console games right? Even Namco and Tecmo still make console games. Why is it only Square? Why can I list more Namco games then Square games? But I guess you are right, Square makes mostly JRPGs and they don't seem to do as well as they did last gen.
Or maybe it's because of Eidos does that stuff now for them, who knows. It's just...I'm sure there is a very logical reason to all of this but it.....it just feel wrong man...:(

#19 Edited by BisonHero (6256 posts) -

@abendlaender: Drat, I was afraid you might already be aware of the situation that Japanese publishers are in. It seemed necessary, since everyone else in the thread was just saying "You forgot Last Remnant", and really not much else was being said.

Yeah, Capcom, Konami, Sega, Namco Bandai, and Tecmo Koei put out console games, but probably less than you think if you really looked it up, with really only Capcom and Sega putting out anything on consoles on a frequent basis. And like you said, they aren't as heavily focused on the most time- and money-intensive genre known to video games, the RPG. I'm actually kind of surprised that Namco's "Tales of" series is still so focused on consoles, though they have been doing some handheld rereleases lately.

#20 Edited by Flappy (2143 posts) -

@animasta: I personally didn't have too much of an issue with the battle system, but I can see why they'd remove the autobattle feature from the game. Where's the fun in allowing the game to play itself? Granted, I had maximized characters when I did this, but I ran through 13-2 final boss fights in less than 15 minutes by mashing A. That's pretty busted.

Action-oriented combat may not be what everyone wants, but if they make it enjoyable, flashy and wrap a good story/experience around it, we may get a GREAT Final Fantasy game that isn't critically panned. Or y'know, it can fail miserably and more people rage about the lack of a FFVII remake.

#21 Posted by Ravenlight (8040 posts) -

They published both Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Sleeping Dogs. Two of my favorite games this generation.

I guess OP is asking more about what they developed though, huh?

#22 Posted by Animasta (14651 posts) -

@flappy: oh no I was just saying they seem to be doing something very very different so that they aren't really improving so much as... doing something new.

#23 Edited by Bourbon_Warrior (4523 posts) -

Absolutely fucking nothing, they invented the Corridor JRPG and a bunch of 360 exclusives that were a piece of shit. Then they somehow made 13 worse with 13-2, a game that follows Lightings 12 year old sister who married that 30 year old. I give up on Final Fantasy if it is going to be anything like 13, all graphics no substance, eye candy for the simpletons of the world.

#24 Posted by Flappy (2143 posts) -

@animasta: My bad. Thinking back on it now, they've been doing different things for years. Once FFX got out the door, they started fiddling around with the usual FF formula.

X-2: I have no words.

XI: MMO

XII: Single-player MMO thing.

XIII: Super linear, story-driven game.

XIV: MMO that I forgot about until now.

XIII-2: Fixes some of the issues of XIII but creates some new ones in the process.

Man, Square has been weird since that whole "Spirits Within" debacle.

#25 Edited by EXTomar (4530 posts) -

@abendlaender said:

@extomar: I haven't played them cause I don't really care about FF but wether they are "advanced and polished" or not....people didn't really like them, right?

But your question is "What did Square do this generation?" and I gave you an important answer. In many ways what Square-Enix has done is a microcosm of the Japanese industry on the whole. They blew a ton of cash grappling with advances in technology causing delays and ultimately under performing.

And important second thing they have done is actually diversified beyond Japan. As others have noted the big thing that separates them from the (few) Japanese companies left standing is they picked up Eidos and went global which has probably helped them a lot.

#26 Posted by Colourful_Hippie (4331 posts) -

lol FF 13.

#27 Posted by Bourbon_Warrior (4523 posts) -

@flappy: Compare that from FFVII to X in a 5 year release window, crazy huh. Guess it really turned to shit once Enix got involved, all they seemed to care about was nice looking cut scenes.

#28 Edited by MikkaQ (10270 posts) -

@addfwyn: Yeah, my opinion is not a common one, and I am used to being seen as weird for digging FF12. It's cool.

#29 Posted by BoG (5186 posts) -

Broke our hearts. The greatest developer on the original Playstation is basically irrelevant as a development studio now. I hope they look at the most successful FF games when crafting XV. XIII received very mixed reviews, and XIV was a failure. How about something with great turn-based battles? Please?

#30 Posted by dandead (170 posts) -

@bourbon_warrior: Erm that's a Sqaure trait mate. See every FF game from 7 onwards.

#31 Posted by TheHT (10933 posts) -

@extomar said:

Whether we admit it or not, FF13 and FF13-2 were the most advanced and polished game offered from Japan at the time. Like it or not, that is an accomplishment compared with its contemporaries.

That sounds like rubbish.

#32 Posted by Animasta (14651 posts) -

@flappy: Compare that from FFVII to X in a 5 year release window, crazy huh. Guess it really turned to shit once Enix got involved, all they seemed to care about was nice looking cut scenes.

12 is still the best Final Fantasy (imo), so you can't say that; different things appeal to different people and to call it shit because they didn't make 7 again is irritating. They changed focuses, they felt like doing new things instead of doing 7 again and again and again, but people don't like change so square gets shit on because they can't stand up to the rose tinted glass view of 7.

I mean 13 was a bad game, so it's not like they're completely flawless or anything (even 13-2 had problems and I loved that game). but come on. 7 is not actually that great of a game, for the record! I played it like 3 years ago and ugh.

#33 Edited by Flappy (2143 posts) -

@dandead: 7-9 all had pretty CG (For the time, I guess. I joined the FF Club around 2000), but those were different times. At least those games have some sort of following. FFX was pretty as hell back in the day, but it also gave the world Tidus...

I'll just make it easy on myself and blame the Kingdom Hearts series for all that is wrong with Square. Lord knows I stopped caring after KH2.

#34 Posted by Pr1mus (3825 posts) -

Square became an amazing publisher this generation. I not a fan of their own games nowadays but they gave us gems like Batman Arkham Asylum, Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Sleeping Dogs.

#35 Posted by Animasta (14651 posts) -

@flappy said:

I'll just make it easy on myself and blame the Kingdom Hearts series for all that is wrong with Squre. Lord knows I stopped caring after KH2.

this, really, because god damn.

#36 Edited by BisonHero (6256 posts) -

@pr1mus said:

Square became an amazing publisher this generation. I not a fan of their own games nowadays but they gave us gems like Batman Arkham Asylum, Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Sleeping Dogs.

That sounds like we're basically saying "turns out Eidos was a pretty awesome publisher all along". I'm not nearly as impressed with the Japanese-developed games that Square Enix has published lately (i.e. the publishing decisions that regular-ass Square Enix is responsible for, as opposed to the Eidos arm of the company).

#37 Posted by dandead (170 posts) -

@flappy: My comment was not one of bashing Sqaures PS1 work more that Enix don't give two hoots about FMV. I can't think of a single DQ they have done where there was a huge amount of FMV. Perhaps there was a little in the DS remakes but only the intro and that was pretty much it.

#38 Posted by Video_Game_King (36124 posts) -

Seeing how the PS4 will be unveiled (hopefully) in less than 72 hours

#39 Edited by EXTomar (4530 posts) -

@theht said:

@extomar said:

Whether we admit it or not, FF13 and FF13-2 were the most advanced and polished game offered from Japan at the time. Like it or not, that is an accomplishment compared with its contemporaries.

That sounds like rubbish.

My original comment was more about how much more poorly their contemporaries handled it. Maybe the answer is: Square-Enix survives. After all others are just throwing their IP at western companies while they still try.

#40 Posted by Blu3V3nom07 (4167 posts) -
#41 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4611 posts) -

Square Enix made a couple of really bad Final Fantasy games and then ported some old ones to new handhelds.

Business as usual except for the part where they saved Eidos and rescued a bunch of interesting (and as it turned out, amazing) games in the process. I'd say they did well this generation in remaining relevant. They also managed to penetrate the western market in a big way with titles like Deus Ex and Sleeping Dogs, something that other Japanese publishers/developers like Capcom only wish they could do.

All in all, SEE did pretty good this gen. I'm looking forward to what they bring on the next set of consoles.

#42 Edited by Zirilius (585 posts) -

All this focus on Final Fantasy and how quickly we forget

Deus Ex: Human Revolution

Sleeping Dogs

Tomb Raider

Yes they have put out some crap but they put out some good quality stuff as well.

#43 Posted by Gilsham (293 posts) -

Dragon Quest X - listening to 8 4 talk about this makes me glad I have a WiiU (well MH3 and this)

Fortune Street - gave us one of the best tnt's ever.

Final Fantasy: Four Heroes - this is a really good rpg even if it is only on the DS

Gyromancer - is an attempt to cash in on the puzzle quest hype with a twist match 3 game

Crystal Chronicles: Echo in Time - interesting real time combat rpg with cross play with the wii and the ds, I liked this quite a lot

Crystal Defenders - A very hard tower defence game with quite a lot of replay value (I like it more than kingdom rush)

Final Fantasy: Tatics A2 - oh the hours I've spent in this game, this is one of the best trpgs out there

Crystal Chronicles: My Life as King - Had heard about this when it first came out and got it when I got my WiiU, it is quite amusing and the companion 'My Life as a Dark Lord' (which isn't in the database for some reason) tower defence is also a very interesting take on the genre

Crystal Chronicles: Rings of Fate - the prequel to Echo in Time, also a real time combat rpg with interesting magic mixing and co-op on the ds

Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings - a some what lack lustre rts mainly because it was quite hard to control on the DS

While I very much like all the main line Final Fantasy (esp XI as it was my first MMO and I still think its group based combat skills are fantastic) people do seem to have a large disdain for them over the story, which to me if your coming to a JRPG for the story then you are doing it wrong (the biggest example of this I think is X-2, the combat system and etc in that when it came out were so damn good)

#44 Edited by Bourbon_Warrior (4523 posts) -

@pr1mus said:

Square became an amazing publisher this generation. I not a fan of their own games nowadays but they gave us gems like Batman Arkham Asylum, Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Sleeping Dogs.

They only published the Japanese version of AA, They also publish the Call of Duty series in Japan. It's more a localization job.

@animasta said:

@bourbon_warrior said:

@flappy: Compare that from FFVII to X in a 5 year release window, crazy huh. Guess it really turned to shit once Enix got involved, all they seemed to care about was nice looking cut scenes.

12 is still the best Final Fantasy (imo), so you can't say that; different things appeal to different people and to call it shit because they didn't make 7 again is irritating. They changed focuses, they felt like doing new things instead of doing 7 again and again and again, but people don't like change so square gets shit on because they can't stand up to the rose tinted glass view of 7.

I mean 13 was a bad game, so it's not like they're completely flawless or anything (even 13-2 had problems and I loved that game). but come on. 7 is not actually that great of a game, for the record! I played it like 3 years ago and ugh.

If you played it in 1997 you would understand, I played it 2 years ago on my PSP again and it is still a fine game, and I am talking about the quality they released in those 5 years. Compared to the last 5 years, its so clear they are taking the wrong direction. And I didn't say every game should be like the 7 that's just classic Animasta putting words in peoples mouths, each of those FF improved the formula they added something but never took anything away, 13 is very different but that is because they took so much away, I don't enjoy the auto battle system, I like a boss fight in FF to be more like a game of chess instead of having to paradigm shift every 20 seconds for 30 minutes. I'm hoping they fire the current FF team and bring back Hironobu Sakaguchi to front FF. He seemed to get it with Lost Odyssey just lacked the tech behind the scenes to make it something special. But they have seemed to got the casual crowd with the FF XIII franchise, who just play it for the pretty cut scenes. This is the reason I have played 2 JRPG's this generation and countless WRPG's, they really dropped the ball this generation.

#45 Posted by killacam (1284 posts) -
#46 Posted by ImmortalSaiyan (4676 posts) -

They have cut back on game made in house since the PS1 days for sure but some quality games were made by square.

Most notable is The World Ends With You. Which is fantastic, creative, unique and makes excellent use of the DS.

I really like Crisis Core: Final fantasy 7. It has the best story of the entire series. Excellent productions values, art and music.

I am a big fan of Final Fantasy 13 as well.

#47 Edited by Demoskinos (14596 posts) -

Technically a ton considering they own Eidos now

#48 Edited by Animasta (14651 posts) -

@bourbon_warrior: oh I put words in your mouth, but thanks for telling me I played through 13 and 13-2 for the pretty cutscenes <_< and yes, if I had played 7 when it was new I probably would place it on a pedastal (actually I played it 2 years after it came out but I never beat it because I got stuck), but I didn't so I don't. I'm not even talking about the gameplay (which was boring and eh), but the story was fucking dumb, like every single final fantasy game ever, characters were one note stereotypes... many of these problems final fantasy still face today! the biggest difference between 13 and 7 is you played 7 when you were younger.

also if you really thought the gameplay in the earlier games was like chess... you obviously haven't played too much chess. the SMT/persona games are way better at the turn based shit than any of the final fantasy games. The paradigm shifting is also more complicated than you're making it out to be; you may not like it (which is completely fair) but to call it uncomplicated is being unfair to it.

and for the record, who are you to decide the wrong direction? my favorite final fantasy games are 12 and 13-2 (for different reasons obviously) and I think they would be regressing by going back to the PS1 style of game.

I fully admit 13 is a bad game but I also think 7 is a bad game, 8 is an even worse one and 9 is probably pretty good I never played it

#49 Posted by golguin (3852 posts) -

@nilazz said:

Still can't believe we haven't seen Kingdom Hearts 3 yet. Square-Enix did however distribute a couple of kick ass games this gen.

They did put out a good number of other KH titles. I enjoyed 358/2 Days and Birth By Sleep. BBS has the best combat in the series, but I say that having not played Dream Drop Distance since I don't own a 3DS.

#50 Edited by Fredchuckdave (5339 posts) -

Bought Eidos; made some alright games aside from that. A far cry from the PS1 days but they still have talented people and there's always the potential that Vagrant Story 2 comes out in light of Dark Souls' popularity.

I've played 140 hours of The Last Remnant according to Steam; though a lot of that is just messing around with the extremely weird leveling and combat (spent maybe 15 hours trying to beat the Fallen with a very low level party; since it's such a hands off game could just start rounds then do something else for 5 minutes then come back and start the next round, gambling stimulus); I also got it for $1.42.

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