I'm gonna go ahead and explain one of the biggest flaws I found with First Contact. And this isn't one of the common ones like Picard being an action hero or Cochrane being silly or whatever. Those have all been covered.
The flaw is... the Borg Cube at the beginning of the film is destroyed.
Now, this wouldn't be a problem if it was destroyed in some way that made sense. Like at the end of The Best of Both Worlds, that was a really creative and interesting way to defeat the Borg. Also, it was really the only choice they had, because the Borg were fucking unstoppable juggernauts of no-resistance-making and you couldn't defeat them through sheer firepower or combined arms. That was what Q Who and Best of Both Worlds taught us. I mean, the Battle of Wolf 359 is still scarred into every Trekkie's living memory, right? That's for a reason. Wolf 359 was probably the most memorable space battle on the series, and it was one we never even saw! That sorta thing stays with you for a long time.
Well, First Contact comes around and shows us that Q Who and Best of Both Worlds were both wrong. You apparently can defeat the Borg through sheer firepower and combined arms. And that's just wrong, man. That is straight up fucking retarded. The Borg are as scary and powerful as they are for a very big reason. It is not because they build giant fucking cubes. That helps, but that by itself wouldn't make them all that special.
The Borg's main advantage comes from their ability to adapt. It always has been. This is the trump card that they revealed in Q Who. You fire phasers and photon torpedoes at a Cube, and you'll be able to get in a few shots, but afterwards they will adapt, regenerate, and your weapons are now completely useless. This is an amazing ability which means that they are able to access God mode from the console after you hit em a few times. Even with changing phaser frequencies, you'll only buy yourself a few more shots before they adapt. This has been shown over and over again in the series.
Well, for some reason... the Borg Cube in First Contact seems to have lost the ability to adapt. It's true, don't think I'm making this whole schtick up. After the battle begins, the Enterprise E goes from the border of the Romulan Neutral Zone to the Sol System. This presumably takes some time. I dunno how long, let's just say a couple of hours at least, right? That's probably pretty reasonable. And the cube battle begins from the Typhon sector and ends up at the Sol System. So from start to finish, it's a couple of hours. And the Cube apparently doesn't adapt in that amount of time. Because when we finally get to see the battle, on Earth's doorstep, the Borg Cube's still taking hits from phasers, photon torpedoes... all manner of crap. Enterprise E shows up and fires phasers and quantum torpedoes... no adapting on the Cube's part. Where did this adapting ability go? It was on the TV series, but didn't make the transition to the films? WTF guys?
And don't tell me that the Enterprise E's quantum torpedoes worked because they were new weapons and the Cube hadn't had time to adapt yet. Yes, the quantum torpedoes were new, but you can't honestly expect me to believe that the Enterprise E was the first ship at the battle to employ them. There was an enormous fleet fighting the Borg for several hours before the E arrived, surely some of them must have had quantums. I mean, the Defiant has quantum torpedoes, doesn't it? The Defiant sure fought the Cube for a long time. So it surely must've used quantum torpedoes.
So they're peppering it with everything, and the Cube's taking all kinds of damage, even though the Cube from Best of Both Worlds decimated the entire Wolf 359 fleet without taking a scratch. Because they adapted to phasers and photon torpedoes in Best of Both Worlds. Something this Borg Cube apparently can't do. Now Picard on the Enterprise E hears something in his head that lets him know to fire at a certain spot. So all the remaining ships fire at this spot and the Cube blows up.
Now, this is ridiculous in several ways. First of all, how the hell does Picard know what the Borg are thinking? He hasn't known what the Borg were thinking during the last few goddamn seasons of TNG. He was completely cured and rehabilitated after Best of Both Worlds. They drained all the borg nanites and implants and whatnot from his body, right? He doesn't have any Borg stuff on him anymore. So what the hell, how is he receiving it? And why would he be receiving nothing other then the exact way to destroy the Cube? Why would the Borg feel like telling him the exact weakness to exploit to destroy them? In I Borg, did the Borg also somehow tell Picard to insert a virus into Hugh to destroy them as well? And if he has the ability to read the Borg's thoughts, doesn't that mean it could also work both ways? Couldn't the Borg also read his thoughts, thus proving Starfleet's assertion that he's an unstable element to a critical situation? This is retarded.
Also, the ships combine to shoot at this one weak spot on the Cube. Ordinarily, the Cube would adapt so that all their shots are just rendered useless. But this is First Contact, where normal rules don't apply. Okay, so they all shoot and the weak spot is weak and the Cube explodes. But wait! On Best of Both Worlds, they said that the Borg Cube was completely decentralized and could remain operative even if 78% of it was destroyed. So it's decentralized, with lots of stuff spread out. That means that the Cube really shouldn't have a weak spot. Now... the Cube on film did not look like it had had 78% of itself destroyed. That's not what I observed. I saw a lot of pockmarks and whatnot on the surface, and there was a dent where the weak spot was, but certainly not 78% damage.
So yea, First Contact fails on many levels.
Star Trek Online
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My Critique of Star Trek First Contact
I'm gonna go ahead and explain one of the biggest flaws I found with First Contact. And this isn't one of the common ones like Picard being an action hero or Cochrane being silly or whatever. Those have all been covered.
The flaw is... the Borg Cube at the beginning of the film is destroyed.
Now, this wouldn't be a problem if it was destroyed in some way that made sense. Like at the end of The Best of Both Worlds, that was a really creative and interesting way to defeat the Borg. Also, it was really the only choice they had, because the Borg were fucking unstoppable juggernauts of no-resistance-making and you couldn't defeat them through sheer firepower or combined arms. That was what Q Who and Best of Both Worlds taught us. I mean, the Battle of Wolf 359 is still scarred into every Trekkie's living memory, right? That's for a reason. Wolf 359 was probably the most memorable space battle on the series, and it was one we never even saw! That sorta thing stays with you for a long time.
Well, First Contact comes around and shows us that Q Who and Best of Both Worlds were both wrong. You apparently can defeat the Borg through sheer firepower and combined arms. And that's just wrong, man. That is straight up fucking retarded. The Borg are as scary and powerful as they are for a very big reason. It is not because they build giant fucking cubes. That helps, but that by itself wouldn't make them all that special.
The Borg's main advantage comes from their ability to adapt. It always has been. This is the trump card that they revealed in Q Who. You fire phasers and photon torpedoes at a Cube, and you'll be able to get in a few shots, but afterwards they will adapt, regenerate, and your weapons are now completely useless. This is an amazing ability which means that they are able to access God mode from the console after you hit em a few times. Even with changing phaser frequencies, you'll only buy yourself a few more shots before they adapt. This has been shown over and over again in the series.
Well, for some reason... the Borg Cube in First Contact seems to have lost the ability to adapt. It's true, don't think I'm making this whole schtick up. After the battle begins, the Enterprise E goes from the border of the Romulan Neutral Zone to the Sol System. This presumably takes some time. I dunno how long, let's just say a couple of hours at least, right? That's probably pretty reasonable. And the cube battle begins from the Typhon sector and ends up at the Sol System. So from start to finish, it's a couple of hours. And the Cube apparently doesn't adapt in that amount of time. Because when we finally get to see the battle, on Earth's doorstep, the Borg Cube's still taking hits from phasers, photon torpedoes... all manner of crap. Enterprise E shows up and fires phasers and quantum torpedoes... no adapting on the Cube's part. Where did this adapting ability go? It was on the TV series, but didn't make the transition to the films? WTF guys?
And don't tell me that the Enterprise E's quantum torpedoes worked because they were new weapons and the Cube hadn't had time to adapt yet. Yes, the quantum torpedoes were new, but you can't honestly expect me to believe that the Enterprise E was the first ship at the battle to employ them. There was an enormous fleet fighting the Borg for several hours before the E arrived, surely some of them must have had quantums. I mean, the Defiant has quantum torpedoes, doesn't it? The Defiant sure fought the Cube for a long time. So it surely must've used quantum torpedoes.
So they're peppering it with everything, and the Cube's taking all kinds of damage, even though the Cube from Best of Both Worlds decimated the entire Wolf 359 fleet without taking a scratch. Because they adapted to phasers and photon torpedoes in Best of Both Worlds. Something this Borg Cube apparently can't do. Now Picard on the Enterprise E hears something in his head that lets him know to fire at a certain spot. So all the remaining ships fire at this spot and the Cube blows up.
Now, this is ridiculous in several ways. First of all, how the hell does Picard know what the Borg are thinking? He hasn't known what the Borg were thinking during the last few goddamn seasons of TNG. He was completely cured and rehabilitated after Best of Both Worlds. They drained all the borg nanites and implants and whatnot from his body, right? He doesn't have any Borg stuff on him anymore. So what the hell, how is he receiving it? And why would he be receiving nothing other then the exact way to destroy the Cube? Why would the Borg feel like telling him the exact weakness to exploit to destroy them? In I Borg, did the Borg also somehow tell Picard to insert a virus into Hugh to destroy them as well? And if he has the ability to read the Borg's thoughts, doesn't that mean it could also work both ways? Couldn't the Borg also read his thoughts, thus proving Starfleet's assertion that he's an unstable element to a critical situation? This is retarded.
Also, the ships combine to shoot at this one weak spot on the Cube. Ordinarily, the Cube would adapt so that all their shots are just rendered useless. But this is First Contact, where normal rules don't apply. Okay, so they all shoot and the weak spot is weak and the Cube explodes. But wait! On Best of Both Worlds, they said that the Borg Cube was completely decentralized and could remain operative even if 78% of it was destroyed. So it's decentralized, with lots of stuff spread out. That means that the Cube really shouldn't have a weak spot. Now... the Cube on film did not look like it had had 78% of itself destroyed. That's not what I observed. I saw a lot of pockmarks and whatnot on the surface, and there was a dent where the weak spot was, but certainly not 78% damage.
So yea, First Contact fails on many levels.
Star Trek is full of LIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEESSSSSSS!
The defeat was all part of Zephrim Cochrane's genius. I think his birthday is tomorrow. Celebrate the discovery of the warp drive.
Hell, they should tell us who invented gravity inside star ships. I think that's a more important invention. Without that
you can't really travel for large distances in space without losing a lot of muscle mass, etc..
Actually you just completely wasted your time writing that Delta and I'm gone explain why. The first things the Borg ship at the Battle of Wolf 359 didn't go unscathed as you seem to think. The reason the Enterprise under the command of Riker was able to catch up to the Borg cube at all was because the Borg Cube was still making repairs from it's encounter at the Battle of Wolf 359.
Now other then Battle of Wolf 359 Star Fleet hadn't had any real encounters with the Borg. Now this bought them some breathing room, figure maybe 4 or 5 years between Best of Both Worlds and First Contact. This allowed Star Fleet to take all there knowledge and develop ships to combat the Borg when they showed back up. In fact the Defiant was built for that reason, it was the first ship built to combat the Borg. So by time Borg attacked in First Contact Star Fleet
had developed new and more advance ships, ones that the Borg would have a harder time adapting to. Now if the Enterprise E hadn't shown up I think it would
been a repeat of Wolf 359, though the Borg cube would have been damaged. What really sunk it for Borg was the arrival of Picard, he turned the tide of that battle really. While the fleet did damage it was the Enterprise (which had the latest and most advance weapons in Star Fleet) that did the most damage.
Now let me address the fact that Picard herd there voice and seem to know what they were thinking. I don't think it was so much that he heard there voice it was more like a phantom voice if you will. Think of what happens when some one loose an Arm or Leg, they will swear it still there. I think the same thing was going on here. However there could still be some implants left behind that was allowing him to slightly hear the collective. We have seen 7 of 9 have this problem a few times on Voyager, so we know its possible.
Picard didn't need to know what they were thinking to know were to hit them were it will do the most sever damage, enough to destroy the Cube. Remember Picard was a Borg once and he still has the memories, though it seems he has blocked some of them out. So he knew tactically were to hit the Borg and do enough damage to destroy the Cube.
There is no flaw in First Contact sorry to say. I might be able to go out on a limb and say about the only argument you could make a case on is his ability to hear the voice of the collective but then again as I said 7 of 9 had the same problem hers was a bit worse because she was a complete Drone. If I'm not mistaken Picard still has some implants left in him, so that could explain how he was able to hear the voices of the collective. I think it was more just a phantom voice thing. So that pretty much shoots down anything you just said dude, Sorry.
" Actually you just completely wasted your time writing that Delta and I'm gone explain why. The first things the Borg ship at the Battle of Wolf 359 didn't go unscathed as you seem to think. The reason the Enterprise under the command of Riker was able to catch up to the Borg cube at all was because the Borg Cube was still making repairs from it's encounter at the Battle of Wolf 359. Now other then Battle of Wolf 359 Star Fleet hadn't had any real encounters with the Borg. Now this bought them some breathing room, figure maybe 4 or 5 years between Best of Both Worlds and First Contact. This allowed Star Fleet to take all there knowledge and develop ships to combat the Borg when they showed back up. In fact the Defiant was built for that reason, it was the first ship built to combat the Borg. So by time Borg attacked in First Contact Star Fleet had developed new and more advance ships, ones that the Borg would have a harder time adapting to. Now if the Enterprise E hadn't shown up I think it would been a repeat of Wolf 359, though the Borg cube would have been damaged. What really sunk it for Borg was the arrival of Picard, he turned the tide of that battle really. While the fleet did damage it was the Enterprise (which had the latest and most advance weapons in Star Fleet) that did the most damage. Now let me address the fact that Picard herd there voice and seem to know what they were thinking. I don't think it was so much that he heard there voice it was more like a phantom voice if you will. Think of what happens when some one loose an Arm or Leg, they will swear it still there. I think the same thing was going on here. However there could still be some implants left behind that was allowing him to slightly hear the collective. We have seen 7 of 9 have this problem a few times on Voyager, so we know its possible. Picard didn't need to know what they were thinking to know were to hit them were it will do the most sever damage, enough to destroy the Cube. Remember Picard was a Borg once and he still has the memories, though it seems he has blocked some of them out. So he knew tactically were to hit the Borg and do enough damage to destroy the Cube. There is no flaw in First Contact sorry to say. I might be able to go out on a limb and say about the only argument you could make a case on is his ability to hear the voice of the collective but then again as I said 7 of 9 had the same problem hers was a bit worse because she was a complete Drone. If I'm not mistaken Picard still has some implants left in him, so that could explain how he was able to hear the voices of the collective. I think it was more just a phantom voice thing. So that pretty much shoots down anything you just said dude, Sorry. "
I don't think I wasted my time at all, and here's why: You wrote a bunch of nonsensical bullshit that didn't prove anything.
First point: You said the Borg cube after Wolf 359 was damaged and making repairs. That's something to thnk about. Except there's absolutely no evidence to support your assertion. At all. Did you just pull this little fact out of your ass or something? Where in that episode does it show that the Borg Cube was damaged? Where did we see that it was actually making repairs? Is there any onscreen damage in Emissary Part 1? Oh wait, there isn't. Cause the Borg cube adapted to their fucking weapons.
So you say that Starfleet built newer ships to combat the Borg afterwards. Well, this is true. But these ships still use phasers and photon torpedoes. The Borg can still adapt to phasers and photon torpedoes. So that doesn't really mean anything. You see tons of ships getting blown apart in First Contact.
What really sunk it for the Borg wasn't the arrival of Picard, it was the film script removing their ability to adapt to weapons. The Borg had this adaptation in the episodes but somehow lost it in transition to the theatrical screen. The Enterprises's weapons were advanced, but it was still one tiny ship compared to the enormous Cube.
The phantom voice of the Borg. You say it's like losing an arm or a leg. Well, okay. Maybe. I can see that. But a phantom voice doesn't tell you to aim for the one weak spot in the Borg Cube. That's no phantom from the days of yore. It's clearly specifically from the Borg he's encountering now. It's a link to them now.
And no, Picard could not have had any implants left inside him. For one thing, Beverly Crusher is pretty fucking good at medical shit. Secondly, it's known he made a full recovery. And Starfleet sure as hell wouldn't let the Captain of their flagship return to active duty if there were still some evil Borg implants inside his cranium. That's just unacceptable. Hell, even without any implants, they were afraid of what he'd do around the Borg. So no, there were no implants. He was not Seven of Nine.
He didn't need to know what they were thinking to hit the weak spot? Then why did he hear that alien murmur inside his head before telling them to fire at it? Why did the filmmakers put that into the movie? It's clearly to tell us, the audience, that he heard something from the Borg to let him know where to hit the weak spot. That's all that scene is about. It's clear as day.
And of course, I've already written about the fact that Borg Cubes are highly redundant and have no fucking weak spots, they mentioned in Best of Both Worlds that a Borg Cube could suffer 70% combat damage and still remain operational. Of course you just chose to ignore that.
There is no flaw in First Contact? It's a flawless film? It deserved to win all the fucking Academy Awards that year then, I suppose. Pity it didn't. Oh wait, you're completely off your goddamn rocker. There are tons and tons of flaws in First Contact. I just focused on the Borg Cube, I didn't even get into how out of character Picard acted, or the fact that Zefram Cochrane was completely different from his TOS portrayal. Or how having a deflector dish that could destroy half the ship might be a tactical weakness. Fucking hell, I hate that film.
Thanks for a lot of nothing and wasting my time today though.
I think what the op is saying is the plot line must be drawn here.
It kinda is. Well STO is anyways. Taken from Atari's own marketing release of STO, read the first sentence. If you have played STO more than a day you will see it as a bold faced lie. I underlined it for your viewing pleasure." Star Trek is full of LIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEESSSSSSS! "
Summary
In Star Trek Online, the Star Trek universe will appear for the first time on a truly massive scale. In this massively multiplayer online game from Cryptic Studios, players can pioneer their own destiny as Captain of a Federation starship. Or, they can become a Klingon Warlord and expand the Empire to the far reaches of the galaxy. Players will have the opportunity to visit iconic locations from the popular Star Trek fiction, reach out to unexplored star systems, and make contact with new alien species. With Episode Missions, every moment spent playing Star Trek Online will feel like a new Star Trek episode in which you are the star. Immerse yourself in the future of the Trek universe as it moves into the 25th century: a time of shifting alliances and new discoveries. [Atari]
STAR TREK made up for it
it was awesome.
and theres always the Wrath!
Seems to me like someones a little...um...whats the word??? Butthurt? Ya thats it. Butthurt that they went into a movie expecting something and getting something else. It is apparently the worst movie ever made and anyone who disagrees with that is a...What did you say? "Out of your Goddamn Rocker?"
Yes. Perfectly structered and logical debate.
Now as for the weapons used in First Contact, while some of the Star Ships probably used the original weapons, the more new star ships were upgraded with more advanced weapons that were designed to against the Borg. One of the methods used was to change the phaser beam frequance and remodulate the shields, this was something used in Best of Both World it just wasn't enough, or I should say the weapons were not enough to destroy a Borg Cube. However with the newer ships on the other hand had better weapons that were designed for the purpose of going up against the Borg.
Remember that it had only been a year between Enterprise first encounter with the Borg in Delta Quadrant and Battle at Wolf 359. Star Fleet hadn't had enough time to really develop any effective weapons. There were little things they could do just wasn't enough to go against a Borg Cube. However by time you got to First Contact, Star Fleet had made significant prograss on that front, with not only the threat of the Borg but also the Dominion War Star Fleet put a lot more energy in to development of better weapons and ships, hence why Enterprise packed a sever punch on the Borg ship when they first arrived.
Now as for the implants, I'll give you that he might not have any implants left, but doesn't change the fact that he either A.) he was hearing nothing more then the phantom echos of the collective or B.) he was hearing the faint echos of the collective. If it's A. then no need to go any further. If you subscribe to B. I can explain that. If you bothered to watch Voyager they pretty much explained this to a certain point.
Seven of Nine implants that allowed her to hear the collective were removed completely yet she could still hear the echos when she was near them. Also Chakotay at one point was linked to a version of the collective, granted it was different. However the link was severed yet the former drones were able to reconnect with him, he was able to hear there thoughts. So we seen examples of how a former drone can still have echos of the collective. Also keep in mind that Picard wasn't like any normal drone. Another words that is a dead issue and most fans except that Picard can hear the echo of the collective in his mind, just take your pick as to how to explain that, any of them can work.
The fact of the matter is there is at least a 4 to 6 year gap between Best of Both Worlds and First Contact, which gave Star Fleet plenty of time develop more powerful Star Ships and Better weapons capable of going toe to toe with the Borg. The fatal flaw in the Borg is that they are arrogant and that has been used against them time and time again. Heck Janeway alone has pretty slapped the Borg Queen down more times then I can count and proved that the Borg are not some unstoppable force.
Of course the writers wrote the Borg to be this scary unstoppable bad guy, however they also showed as the show progressed and more so in First Contact and Voyager that the Borg are not all powerful, they are not Gods. Even the most mighty enemy can be defeated, and usually it is because they are over confident, and arrogant which is exactly what the Borg are. They have roamed the Galaxy unchecked for the most part for God knows how long so it was only a matter of time before they came across a species that was resilient enough to hold there own or resist them and even give them a run for the money.
finally I never said it deserved an academy award. It probably does have flaws, almost all movies do if you look hard enough. However your rant about the Borg cube is completely waste of time because any Star Trek fan would slap your post down. Keep in mind I'm not a hardcore Trekkie, but I did watch the series and loved the shows, all save for DS9.
Also I would like to say that of all the Star Trek movies based around The Next Generation crew First Contact was probably the best one out of all of them. Last but not least it's a movie, it's not real. It's all make believe any way, it doesn't matter at the end of the day. Most of your rants are answered in either Star Trek Voyager or Star Trek: The Next Generation. However I will go back to what I said, it's movie, it's not real and doesn't matter at the end of the day.
Also I love how you attack me because I disagree with you. I said your post was complete waste of time because it was. The show had explained almost every single thing you brought up. I also didn't call you names or attack you, only tried to explain the flaw in your post and why it was a waste of time. I have no problem with you disagree with me, but there is no reason to be rude I mean really.
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