KotOR: The Sunry Trial Collaborative FAQ Proposal

Posted by ahoodedfigure (4238 posts) -

Anyone interested in helping me put my money where my mouth is and actually trying to figure out the ins and outs of the Sunry trial in Knights of the Old Republic? It wouldn't happen right away, as I'd have to figure out what condition my save game is in and wait for others to catch up to the trial if they don't have a save there, but since this site allows multi-person FAQ production, I'm thinking it wouldn't hurt to try. I have the XBox version, but I'm pretty sure the PC and XBox versions are the same in this regard.
 
I may even do it all myself some day in the distant future, as I really like the somewhat forced but still compelling situation you get put in, but if anyone else thinks this sounds interesting, send me a PM or comment below.  You should also comment if you already know of a good writeup of all the potential outcomes; be sure to post a link.
 
Yes, I still have Star Wars on the brain.
 
EDIT: I pretty much laid out in the comments what I remember from this playthrough of the trial. Read for your pleasure/pain/spoilerpain. Thanks to BrackyNews for those links, and I'll go you one better. This is the full FAQ that the forums refer to in your first link, BN:
 
http://aeons.poweredbylasers.com/aeons/kotor_faq.php

#1 Posted by ahoodedfigure (4238 posts) -

Anyone interested in helping me put my money where my mouth is and actually trying to figure out the ins and outs of the Sunry trial in Knights of the Old Republic? It wouldn't happen right away, as I'd have to figure out what condition my save game is in and wait for others to catch up to the trial if they don't have a save there, but since this site allows multi-person FAQ production, I'm thinking it wouldn't hurt to try. I have the XBox version, but I'm pretty sure the PC and XBox versions are the same in this regard.
 
I may even do it all myself some day in the distant future, as I really like the somewhat forced but still compelling situation you get put in, but if anyone else thinks this sounds interesting, send me a PM or comment below.  You should also comment if you already know of a good writeup of all the potential outcomes; be sure to post a link.
 
Yes, I still have Star Wars on the brain.
 
EDIT: I pretty much laid out in the comments what I remember from this playthrough of the trial. Read for your pleasure/pain/spoilerpain. Thanks to BrackyNews for those links, and I'll go you one better. This is the full FAQ that the forums refer to in your first link, BN:
 
http://aeons.poweredbylasers.com/aeons/kotor_faq.php

#2 Posted by EightBitShik (1333 posts) -

I can't help you because I don't know what you are talking about. However, because I don' t know what you are talking about I think it's in my best interest that you do it just in case I need it for later. So get to work.

#3 Posted by ArbitraryWater (11474 posts) -

This seems like a perfectly delightful yet somewhat pointless endeavor one could venture upon for the ultimate justification. Sadly, I don't have KotOR installed on my computer anymore, and even if I did I'd be past Manaan at this point (And I've played this game enough to tell you that I don't really feel like going through Kashyykkykekykk and Manaan, even with the Taris Skip mod, since I'm pretty sure you need to have Jolee in your party to initiate this quest in the first place.)
 
What I can tell you though, is that victory in the trial probably revolves around not mentioning that Sunry is a republic war hero, while also mentioning his weakness and crippled nature, then falsifying the evidence by bribing and force persuading everyone. I dunno, in retrospect the entire side quest smacks of the devs thinking that they're cleverer than they really are because the outcome is determined by some pretty minor things that the player may not have noticed. Yeah, you can talk to the judges and get their "viewpoints" or whatever, but that's just kind of obscure. Then there's the part where the Dark/Light side outcome is entirely determined based on if you found the condemning evidence or not, and to top it all off I'm pretty sure the reward isn't that great either.

Online
#4 Posted by Mikemcn (6955 posts) -

That took me forever to do correctly the first time I encountered it for some reason. I kept blaming the wrong dude, and it was really annoying that I couldn't avoid it. 

#5 Posted by Brackynews (4045 posts) -
#6 Posted by ahoodedfigure (4238 posts) -
@Mikemcn: Who did you accidentally blame, do you remember? And what was the right outcome, as far as you're concerned? I didn't think there was an absolutely right one, objectively speaking.

 
@ArbitraryWater: I look at it as a sort of meta-mystery, where I'm wondering just what they were thinking when they put it together. Part of my problem with things that are THIS complicated is that they are less about setting up a realistic, dynamic scenario than putting a bunch of landmines in your way that don't even feel like landmines when they explode. The Manaan justice system is total bullshit! 
 
Spoiler warning for the below content to anyone reading this reply, but I'm not hiding it behind the spoiler guard to encourage you to read even if you don't quite know what's going on, just so's you know how many complications there can be:
 

I got no DS/LS points (I've read that you get the former by using Force Persuade to tamper with evidence or testimonies), and...  as far as I remember, what I did was: I interviewed the two hotel patrons and got them to admit A) planting evidence and B) the victim was a Sith Force user (even though the evidence there was circumstantial); I raided the Sith base and found absolutely no evidence one way or another about Sunry; I "sliced" Republic computers and downloaded the tape of old Sunry; I interviewed the judges beforehand but because I was more interested in finding out the truth of it I considered their relative prejudices to be irrelevant; as a result of interviewing his wife and presenting her with the information on her husband's affair, she admitted to having known this for a long time, but still wanted to defend her husband (not unusual, not surprising); Sunry himself maintained his innocence, despite being confronted with the information about the affair, until confronted with the tape from the Republic base. He thereby changed his tack and said that she deserved it for being a spy and using him, although I'm guessing he did it just because he felt betrayed and wasn't terribly concerned with her spy potential when he started that affair since he at no time said she was anything but Sith, a group of people he admitted to killing during the preceding war (as the PCs had done, he was eager to point out). 
 
During the trial I didn't ask every question with every witness, but I did point out that the guy was "a cripple," regarded as a war hero, and that the victim was likely a Sith Force-user. When asking the judges how they felt after just about every witness, I found that I had reached a point where they would have acquitted him had I continued with these prejudicial questions, but that was before I presented evidence that suggested that Sunry was having an affair (prejudicial in the other direction) and that he was likely the killer given the order of events, but as far as I recall (I'd have to do it over again) I didn't present the tape. He was given a few decades in prison, that it would be likely he would be acquitted on appeal in the future, and afterward Jolee suggested that not all the evidence may have been gathered, although I wonder if that's just a blanket dialogue result for him not feeling satisfied with the outcome.
 
My conclusions about the system are that each of the judges has aspects about the case that influence their attitude toward it, so depending upon what evidence you present, you can get their votes to change. At one point they were almost all undecided, another (when presented with the affair) they were generally moving toward guilty. It was as if their system combined the function of qualified but heavily biased judge and an easily distracted jury, which is a weird and evidently volatile mixture.  All the evidence-gathering allows you more questions and more potential presentations during the trial, which allow you more potential outcomes (of which there may only be three: execution, imprisonment, or acquittal-- and there may or may not be nuances to the judgment as it affects the Republic and the Sith). I used the mitigating circumstances to reduce the ire of the judges, which probably resulted in Sunry not being executed despite being guilty of murder. 
 
Beyond influencing what the judges do, the evidence gathered presents the players with a story that they fit together, using evidence as puzzle pieces to try to get a full view of what happened. This serves to create a framework where the player will be able to insert their own (or roleplayed) ethical system, allowing them to decide how they will present the case. In that respect, I think it's a great experience, if not perfect by any means.  
#7 Posted by ahoodedfigure (4238 posts) -
@Brackynews: That's a big twinkie.  Will take me a while to read all those forum discussions, but that's pretty useful. I already saw that initial post, but for some reason I feel like it's incomplete.  Maybe the execution result is just a rumor?
#8 Posted by Jadeskye (4366 posts) -
@ahoodedfigure said:
@Brackynews: That's a big twinkie.  Will take me a while to read all those forum discussions, but that's pretty useful. I already saw that initial post, but for some reason I feel like it's incomplete.  Maybe the execution result is just a rumor?
no thats genuine, i saw it myself years ago. took me a while to remember what exactly the OP was talking about lol.
#9 Posted by ahoodedfigure (4238 posts) -
@jadeskye: that FAQ, which was pretty definitive, said that you could only jail the guy or get him out of prison, not have him executed, so even that FAQ, although extensive, probably needs more information.  I sorta remember the guy getting executed when I flubbed the trial, but maybe I'm thinking of some other event.
#10 Posted by Vehemont (5 posts) -
@ahoodedfigure:  I got two pieces of info from the two witnesses at the hotel. The Pazaak player told me that he "accidently" bumped into the Sith woman and saw that she was carrying a lightsaber. Also with the Rodian I questioned him and he admitted that the Sith told him to plant the evidence of Sunry's republic war medal. You could also force manipulate or persuade and bribe the hotel owner and tell him what he saw, though I neve tried that out. During my trial I told them all the info that I had, telling them of the Sith woman having a lightsaber, also of the Sith telling the Rodian to plant the evidence and other stuff I can't remember of the top of my head lol. Needless to say they found Sunry NOT GUILTY in my case of the trial. 
 
I must say the one thing that threw me off, was after I was done questioning the witnesses, a guy came out and told me that not everything is as it appears, that both the Republic and the Sith had something to do with the murder. He told me to question both diplomats of the Sith and the Republic. Well it was too late for me to do that as I already broke into the Sith base and stole back the droid memory thing before I got this quest, so there was no Sith (at least that I found)  to ask, and the Republic diplomat gave me no options of asking about the trial at that point so I don't know.........
#11 Posted by Rolyatkcinmai (2682 posts) -

I love that this is being considered lol.

I might be able to help. I own several versions of the game, but probably haven't played it in six years.

#12 Posted by ahoodedfigure (4238 posts) -
@Rolyatkcinmai: Thanks. I guess people pointed out that enough had been done to make a guess at what the possibilities were that I considered it a done deal.
 
@Vehemont: The truth gets a lot more messed up when you delve deep enough. You saying played it recently? I'm thinking the outcome depends a lot upon what you hope to get out of the trial. If you go in there to prove his innocence and stick to that without regard to anything you might find, or guilt for that matter, you can frame it up to make that outcome happen. If you find enough evidence while just trying to figure out the truth and present it, it's a lot more complicated.

This edit will also create new pages on Giant Bomb for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Giant Bomb users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.