I just started playing this recently because my friend was, and I was like "hey, I need some kotor-ish love in my life" so I started it up.

I'd like to start by saying; I'm going to continue playing this game till the end of these story lines for the classes I want to see, BUT MAN! This is the most disgusting free to play model and segmentation I've seen in a game yet! Maybe I haven't played enough FTP games but GEEZ LOUISE! This is NUTS, then I heard some guy in a blog say that customer service is for subscribers only? I believe that is not customer service, "Hi, want to spend money in our shop and be called a 'preferred player'? Well... we still don't care about you at all, but hey now you can COMPOSE MAIL TO SEND TO PLAYERS."

That said, again I will probably keep playing because I enjoy stories and general tom-foolery but it just makes me very sad.

Sorry to rant in here, but I wanted to see if I wasn't alone in sadly playing this as a free-to-play guy because I still like kotor and wanted to see it through :'(

I'll probably get this some day just to hash through the stories since I loved the first 2 KotORs, but that's about it, and that's probably a long ways away, since I need a new PC.

You aren't alone. I was a subscriber at launch, so I'm a "preferred" player now, but even that is pretty limited. At first, they limited all non-subscribers to only two action bars, which was probably the most egregious example of the segmentation. I believe they've since increased it to four because of harsh feedback, but yeah, their FTP model is kind of jacked. It technically will allow you to do what they promised (level to 50 and see the entire story for your class), but you will not enjoy the journey nearly as much as a paying subscriber. I tried to get back into it, but the restrictions on rested XP and reduced XP from just about everything else made leveling take longer than I was willing to accept.

That said, the Jedi Knight story line is as close to KOTOR 3.0 as you'll get. So I would recommend that one if you decide to stick with it.

I'm playing it right now. I started playing this and Tera the same weekend and while Tera looks lightyears (no pun intended) better than The Old Republic and its action combat is more exciting, the story is..well, I don't even know if there is a story. It's very "kill 10 of these, collect 12 of these". Now, SWTOR is that too in essence but with the voice acting and unfolding personal plot it creates a world much more interesting to me. I wanted to get my ship back and help out the occasional person-in-need for the right credits. I got drawn into the Star Wars world. It took me a bit to remember my old WOW skills, but once I got the hang of it, it's been no problem. I'm certainly over level, but that's the way I play all RPG's.

The F2P implementation was acceptable for the first dozen or so levels, but some restrictions I found too limiting and well, EA won. After about 12 to 15 hours of play in the F2P model, I plopped down some money for a 2-months non-reoccurring subscription. I've spent more for less entertainment in the past, so I am quite happy. I figure in 2 months I'll have gotten all I want out of it and that will be fine. I have no desire to devolt myself to a single game again like I did during my WOW days, but playing this is a lot of fun, so I'm going to enjoy it while I can then move on to other titles again.

I'm on Shadowlands, an Eastern time zone PVE server.

What is "so restricting" that isn't found in every other MMO? I noticed the examples were left out. They do eventually force you to become at least a preferred player if you want to do anything outside of the story but big deal. Is it the catch phrase "free to play" that throws people off into thinking the game should be 100% free?

And yes, I bought TOR and subbed at launch. It wasn't good enough for a monthly fee so I cancelled the subscription. However, it is good enough to play for free. So I came back and play it casually here and there. It is a fine game. Once in a while I'll buy some unlock for a measly 5$. Much better then having to sub, much better then the pay to win Korean MMOs, and much better then LotRO which charges for QUESTING content on top of the unlocks of TOR. I swear it is just the EA logo getting everyone upset.

I didn't find it to be that restricting, just find some buds that are willing to buy you stuff with money or credits and you're set; MMOs are all about the social element anyway. I was able to do everything I wanted to do without paying a cent, though the playerbase is pretty much a carbon copy of WoW so it's not really worth playing for particularly long. Did make a good friend to play Orcs Must Die 2 with and laugh at public players in 5 mans; even if the 5 man's themselves were extremely formulaic the randomness of varying groups and gauging how stupid they were was still fun.

I recently started playing again, had originally intended to go F2P but in the end I decided it was worth subbing for at least a month until I've got my MMORPG needs out of the way. From what I've read, you can get along fine by going down the F2P route though there are some restrictions that hurt my experience. Although I think you can unlock sprint at some point (either through the cartel market or level base) I could see that driving me up the wall with F2P, it feels so slow.

Swtor could have been something special, it's a very flawed MMO but I'm having fun again. Just makes me hope we might see a Kotor 3 some day... a man can dream.

I quit about 4 months after launch because I couldn't justify paying for a MMO I only played a few times a month, and just started playing again this week. The F2P restrictions are quite annoying so I coughed up $15 to see what it'd be like again. Still fun but I find myself skipping most of the cookie cutter quests, they are just so boring.

If anyone wants to play together I've got several characters on The Bastion (PvP) and am looking to make new ones on The Harbinger PvE server. Just PM me!

Yes. Off and on. Sort of.

What I really want to see is a way to gain enough XP for your alts to level through using only class missions. I'm interested in playing all eight stories. I'm NOT interested in playing the same shitty side missions over and over, and the F2P weekly limitations on PvP doesn't make that a valid alternative.

Tried just watching the class stories on YouTube, but that wasn't cutting it. But every time I saw what I knew was at least 8 hours of grinding condensed to 20-30 tight minutes, I wept.

@burningstickman: @mewarmo990: All my dudes are on The Harbinger and I haven't played in quite some time. I got a Bounty Hunter and Imperial Agent to 50 and stopped once I finished their class stories and Corellia. Highest on Republic side is my Jedi Knight, which I want to say is level 33 or so.

Obviously it would become more slower going the higher up we got, but for the Imperial side classes, I could "run" you guys through your class story quests so that you could see their stories without actually having to play them for real. It'd certainly be quicker than doing it for real. Unless they changed it, there are no level requirements for any of the class quests.

Nope. I thought about it once but I deleted the authenticator app off my phone and I can't recover my account without calling customer support. It's not worth it to bother because playing the game back when I paid to play made me want to shoot myself in the head.

My game crapped out on me due to some download bug when it patched. I was playing up 4 characters at one time. Whatever the reason, I can't launch anymore and so I deleted it from my PC. It was a whole lot of fun while it worked and I might still be playing if not for that bug. I re-installed Dragon Age Origins and have been playing that again instead. What I wouldn't give for a DAO game with a Star Wars skin (real DAO not DA2). I don't know how it would make any sense, but I'd like to play it just the same. Okay, EA you've got the license, make this happen.

I have two 50 a sorcerer and a marauder, essentially done single player aside from a few dungeons and group missions, once i did that i was pretty much done with the game, i got a solid 2 months out of it and spent about $30 or so, money well spent.

@penguindust: KOTOR is more or less that, though DAO is definitely superior. I know it's blasphemous to some to suggest such a thing, but seriously, KOTOR isn't as great as everyone pretends (we get it, the "twist" was "AMAZING OMG!!!"; spoilers: it's not that great).

@twoarmed said:

Damn, man! That's extremely generous (and also sounds like it would be boring as fuck for you)! I already have alts at least past level 10 on Begeren, so I'd have to remake everyone on Harbinger. But I'll think about it. Especially if we get a bigger group going. I have a 50 Sage on Begeren, so you could guide Empire and I could guide Republic if there's enough interest.

I do remember that every character would have to be level 10. They don't let you off the starter planet before then. Tried grouping with a higher character and couldn't even get to fleet.

@burningstickman: Ah, that's right. I forgot about needing to be a certain level to leave the starter planets. Eh, I don't know, I did it for somebody's Sith Warrior and Smuggler near the end of the beta using my Sith Warrior and Trooper when they wouldn't have time to level up and finish their class stories, and it wasn't that bad as far as "boredom" is concerned. I honestly think it would be entirely alleviated by the characters being such low level, as it would simply be amusing to bring them up through it, especially when your companions are still added at the level they are "supposed" to be at, so you can have a companion 20+ levels higher than you.

I'm still playing, and still on The Harbinger. Have a few 55's since the new "expansion" dropped, and rolling mostly Republic side at this point. If anybody ever wants to run anything, smoke through some dailies, Flashpoints, or just get rushed through class quest stuff, I'm always down. Just shoot me over a PM.

Yeah so, it's been a week and I remembered the main reason I quit. Almost all the missions besides the class storyline are MONOTONOUS as hell. Talk about tedium.

"OH MAN AGENT I'M SO GLAD YOU'RE HERE WE WOULD HAVE BEEN SO FUCKED. Also kill 7 womp rats and bring me their tails pls kthxbai"

And man I would love you forever if you did this.

I enjoyed the time that I played, but from what I hear the F2P stuff was not particularly well done. Not sure I want to download that whole thing again.

I bought and played it when it first came out and really enjoyed my time with it. I got the Sith Inquisitor to what was max level at the time. Shortly after they went F2P and EA's typical disgusting nickle and dimming came along I stopped playing and have not played it since. I tried it again a month or so back but the restrictions they have and the money they expect you to pay is revolting.

Such a shame too as it was a game I was happy to pay a monthly fee for to fire up from time to time and mess around in, but now they won't see a cent from me.

Had a friend who recently picked up the game to play through some of the stories, since he's a big Star Wars fan and KotOR fan in particular, but I didn't necessarily want to resub, so my brother and I were playing along with him for free. It was... not a good time. You earn less experience, so you eventually start to lag behind unless you do some extra grinding or buy XP boosters. You have to buy certifications for any rare equipment you get in order to actually equip it. My brother up and quit playing because of it, whereas I caved and just bought some subscription time. They also have one of the most egregious gambling models you'll find in a western MMO with their Cartel Packs and such, but I guess that's neither here nor there.

The only F2P model for an MMO that I've found remotely tolerable is for Lord of the Rings Online, but my primary account for that is Lifetime so I only deal with it on my secondary account. This is of course not counting something like Guild Wars 2 which doesn't use a subscription model at all.

I'm actually enjoying SWTOR now that I'm paying for it again. I played the game at launch but stopped when I got burnt out on Tatooine, and didn't really have anyone to play with (I'm an introvert; I don't like to group up with strangers if I can avoid it). Now that my girlfriend has a computer capable of running the game, though, we've been going through together and it's been fun.

Lord of the Rings Online used to be the only MMO I played (ever since I stopped playing EVE Online), but lately I haven't liked the direction Turbine's been taking the game. The F2P model in it is fine, as I've said, but their growing focus on trying to milk more and more money out of even their paying subscribers by designing content with the in-game store in mind has really hurt it in my opinion.

I mean hell, the most recent expansion introduced Rohan and mounted combat on new warsteeds, but every piece of customization for your warsteed -- from the color of its coat, to the style of its armor -- is locked behind store purchases that are unreasonably expensive. Considering LotRO has one of the most robust (and freely available to everyone!) cosmetic systems for your character in any MMO I've played, it was a real kick in the teeth when they wouldn't even let paying subscribers who bought the expansion customize their damn warsteed.

...woah I kind of went off on a tangent, there. Anyway, yeah, F2P in SWTOR is pretty shitty and I'd rather just pay the subscription fee. Warframe, on the other hand... now there's a good F2P game...

@echoecho: Don't have experience with LOTRO, but The Secret World's F2P system is probably the least intrusive of any I've played. Granted, it's more buy to play, but barely with all the discounts they've been throwing around.

SWTOR's system is universally derided and that's nothing new. EA clearly was expecting a steady source of dependable, subscriber revenue (since Activision has one with WoW), and is not willing to give up on that. I also remember a SWTOR dev saying EA wanted to lock off content, and this was accounting's compromise for letting the content be free.

The only thing I will say in its favor is that once you pay for the crucial unlocks (they even have packs now that bundle them at a discount), it's pretty much the lifetime membership I was hoping they'd offer from the start. The reduced XP is a drag, but it allows me to leave the game on the computer and make slow progress over time, rather than rushing to get my monthly fee's worth and turning everything into a chore. This also hinges on not being interested in PvP, which is basically impossible as F2P.

Star Trek Online added gambling packs too when Perfect World took over (natch). Say what you will, but they apparently sell unbelievably well. :\

@burningstickman: Yeah, they definitely do. In SWTOR I see people running around with gear from those Cartel Packs on a regular basis. Hell, even I spent my monthly complimentary cartel points on a couple of packs (didn't really have anything else I needed them for). Would never spend actual money on them, though.

Haven't loaded up STO since the first month it went F2P, and didn't really mess around much with it when I did, so I didn't get a good idea of how the F2P system worked in it. As a former subscriber, I think I already had a few things a strictly F2P player wouldn't.

In LotRO, they do lock you out of quests beyond a certain region (around lvl 20 or so), but it is very easy to earn enough Turbine Points to purchase the quest packs for regions (as well as unlock all the other features like more inventory, removing the gold cap, etc.) just by running quests and finishing Deeds (basically Achievements before Achievements were a thing in MMOs like WoW and SWTOR). If you make a handful of alts on various servers, you can grind the early Deeds for Turbine Points. There are quite a few people I've come across in-game who are at the level cap and have access to everything without ever having spent a penny.

And if the grind is a little too much, if you buy a single month's worth of subscription time, it permanently grants any characters you log in with during that time access to several subscription-level features, such as Auction House use, gold cap removal, full Trait slots, full inventory bags, and other various perks for far cheaper than it would be to buy them all separately with actual money. Then you can just focus on saving your points to buy the quest packs.

My only issue with LotRO's F2P model, as I sort of mentioned in my other post, is Turbine's recent bout of greed, locking away things that I think subscribers (and especially people with Lifetime accounts) shouldn't have to pay extra for -- especially not at the prices they're asking. The store makes them so much money that they apparently can't help tying every new feature they add to the game to it in an egregious manner, which has me pretty bummed out. Haven't even played the game in nearly six months now, when I used to absolutely love it, just because it's damn depressing how they're losing their once immensely commendable integrity.

I don't blame Turbine so much as Warner Bros, though; this all started when they got bought out, including the move to F2P -- which they had previously said (just months prior to the buyout) that they had no intention of doing, because the game was still quite profitable for them. The present theory (since Turbine won't confirm or deny it) is that the switch to F2P was part of the deal with WB for being bought.

I was excited for this years before it arrived, and then it released and everyone said it was a shitty WoW so i skipped.

Then they said they were going f2p and i was like hell yeh i'm giving it a shot, and then everyone said the f2p is absolute shit.

And then i never played this fucking game ever after initially being crazy excited for it.

Good fucking job EA. You suck.

@echoecho: Between what you describe and my own experience with Matrix Online, it seems clear that WB should stay the fuck out of the MMO business.

@rowr: Can't fault you. I would recommend watching some of the class stories on YouTube if you ever need to scratch the itch. They are indeed the best part (Sith Warrior and Agent are probably the highlights). There's certainly a difference between watching someone be a smarmy Smuggler bastard and getting to make those decisions yourself, but hey, free.

I played it for awhile but got way bored. The class story is good... but the cut-scenes are the good part, the quests are just typical Wow style quests that move too slow for my tastes. I'm playing a lot of Rift these days, and loving it.

I'd love to know more about how these MMOs are doing in terms of hard numbers, or via more serious journalism coverage. Net profit per month, number of subscribers, interviews and actual research, etc.. Everyone jumps to say "SWTOR (et al) was a failure", and I get where that sentiment comes from, but these games are still running and so must be successful to some degree. I get the sense most MMOs are arbitrarily written off because they don't have 11 million subscribers and I'd like to know a little more about that market space.

Me and my friend have been doing a thing where we both created Jedi's and only play together. Its been a ton of fun but we've admitted that its mostly because we are playing together and that alone we'd have likely quit. The restrictions of FTP haven't been that bad, but we keep wondering if at some point we are just going to get shafted over.

What I'm wondering is what Disney thinks of this thing. They're cancelling in-dev projects, shut down the Clone Wars TV series to do their own reboot of Star Wars; preparing like 5 new movies; surely someone there is going to start poking sticks at SWTOR.

@nicked said:

THQ just came out and said they were only investing in Asian MMOs because western MMOs didn't work. (I'd expect an article soon, seems like Patrick bait)

Anyway, much of the reasoning was the "most MMOs are arbitrarily written off because they don't have 11 million subscribers" bit. Everybody - not just the "suits," gamers included - is chasing WoW. A nearly 10 year old game, with four full expansion packs worth of content, is the yardstick against which all brand new MMOs are measured.

This does not excuse the royal fuckups SWTOR made both before and with F2P, but I do believe the above colours any perception of success. Simplest actual measure is, if it's still around, and you see a decent amount of people playing if you log on, it must be doing well enough.

It should be noted that "Assian MMOs" don't work either. The market is much more saturated and low quality than many would tolerate in the face of MOBAs.

@burningstickman: I hate to be that guy, but I'm gonna be that guy. As THQ isn't a company anymore, it would be hard pressed for them to be making a push into the Asian MMO market. But I do remember Take-Two recently stating the same exact thing you are saying, so that may be a Strauss Zelnick thing since they have been talking a lot of shop lately in the press. Referring to that perhaps? Unless THQ was going to be making a push into the market before everything went super south, which then just makes me look like an asshat. Anyways, interesting to see a publisher actually try to understand things and that MMO's just have a rough time in the North American market.

Ahhh here's the link for that

Even as someone who plays and still enjoys SWTOR, yeah it's easy to see the amount of problems they themselves have caused by handling F2P the way they have, the gambling boxes, and the huge push for everything coming to the game to be Cartel Market only. Which is unfortunate, as the core leveling experience is ripe for people to enjoy (even if the fetch quests are a little to strong in the force for my pleasure), and it could have had the potential to be even bigger then it currently is.

@mewarmo990: The offer's open to anybody really, so it's something we could do. You'd need to get Empire guys on The Harbinger to at least level 10 I guess to get off the starter planets.

Cool. My main is in the low 30s but I'll get the other classes started.

@mewarmo990: On The Harbinger, my guys are as follows:

Republic

Tivauhn - Smuggler

Tivahwn - Trooper

Tivawhn - Jedi Knight

Tivahn - Jedi Consular

Empire

Tivauwhn - Sith Warrior

Tivaun - Imperial Agent

Tivawn - Bounty Hunter

Tivauwn - Sith Inquisitor

Yes, I intentionally chose to have all of them be some variation of Tivan, mostly because I honestly didn't really care what their names were, and the naming pattern would make it possible to determine whether it was me or not haha. Maybe at some point I'll get one of my Republic characters to 50, but for now it's just the Bounty Hunter and Imperial Agent.

We have a couple of F2P people in our guild. I think being in a good/friendly/active guild can make or break the game for a lot of people. We always have plenty of people to either help out with questions/quests, level with, donate crafting mats/gear, etc.

I'm on Jedi Covenant and play Republic side.

I would love to get back to it but I realize there are soooo many games that are f2p or just cheap(humble bundle and green man gaming) for me to spend the time I need to. Honestly, I would prefer a lets play by funny people on youtube.

Edit: also, if we are talking f2p, marvel heroes has caught my attention and I can barely handle one mmo, 2 is out of the question, even if I had the time, I just cannot do it.

@twoarmed said:

Server transfers are supposed to hit on the 11th. Seriously considering porting my Jedi 50 over to Harbinger, especially if someone else is getting in on this. Can help out with your Republic characters as well. If this successfully gets going, might be worth starting a new topic. I'd imagine more would be interested if they knew about it.

Are you already in a guild on Harbinger?

@burningstickman: Nah, I never bothered to join a guild at any point. I was concerned about having additional idiocy in the chat box when general chat covers that pretty well (especially on Taris Empire side a couple days ago...ugh).

I played at launch and have a level 48 scoundrel. Wanted to go back but man those restrictions were kind of ridiculous but I finally gave in a did go back b/c I never leveled a jedi (and who doesn't wanna be a jedi). Have a level 15 jedi shadow right now. The quests are still fun but man those restrictions are still annoying as all hell. As soon as you hit level 10, they just start rubbing it in your face about how your not a subscriber. Its really frustrating and annoying but I still think its kind of fun despite my distaste for the f2p model. If anyone wants to play send me a pm. I'm in the shadowlands server.

I had stopped playing swtor and then heard it went ftp. Still couldn't convince me enough to get back into it... but recently I tried it and when I got in, I thought that maybe since I had paid a fair amount of months for the games subscription fee maybe I would get some bonuses. Welp, stupid me... I should know better, I only get to activate 2 out 5 of my characters to play with them and the most basic cosmetic options for matching armor color schemes and taking off the head slot I have to pay extra for... If I couldn't even do that much, it made me sick to think what else I couldn't do even though I had paid several months worth of game time before the ftp model was instated. Worse ftp model of all time and worst way to compensate for players who had already been playing before it went ftp.

I tried hopping back in a few days ago, for the first time since it went F2P.. and yeah, the conversion hasn't exactly been kind to the game.

If you're looking for a F2P MMO, there's much better options out there.

I'm still playing this the Jeff Gerstmann way. Which means I'm logging in tonight for the first time in probably a year so I can update my billing info since I switched banks this week. Then I'll log out for another year or so.

I've been playing this game on and off. I'll probably play this for another 2 weeks and then disappear for another 4 months. I still want to get a character to the cap though.

I played during the 12x XP boost and finished several class stories. The game is really good if you can skip all the side quests. I cannot imagine playing it F2P though because the restrictions.

I was a monthly subscriber but cancelled it months ago. Haven't played it even longer than that. I'm at the last planet but doesn't interest me enough to actually finish it. You know they're getting desperate when they release an expansion centered around the main character of a game EVERYONE wanted a proper sequel to (KOTOR) to bring back players. Sorry BioWare. If you want my money, you need to either create more sequels to the KOTOR series, or reboot it or something.

SWTOR is the biggest example for me of my viewpoint when it comes to the recent AAA MMO's that have gone F2P: They're not true F2P, but really just "demos" of P2P games.

I'm mostly fine with that, I mean I think if you're able to get a complete experience as long as you subscribe, that's A-OK. Everquest II does this very well (hell you can play a lot of it without subscribing too). SWTOR seems to do this terribly, but still sticks to the same idea.

That said, even trying out this "demo" of SWTOR didn't appeal to me as it seemed like WoW with a KotOR coat of paint. I might as well just play WoW then.