I admit it is still in beta, but unless they totally revamp the combat and gameplay, this game is the most unremarkable, boring grind I have experienced.  The entire conversation system seems so disconnected to the rest of the game, it's like they just combined two different games, or two different studios finished their own design and pasted them together.  The conversation options and features are great and often fulfilling with very convincing voice acting.  But because this part of the game is so well put together, the actual gameplay is almost frustrating.  It plays like an ancient mmo (everquest 1) with a hi-res paint job.  The movement is plodding, the grind doesn't fit the world.  The world is far larger than what you would expect in a Kotor game, and for the environments seems over done.  You can see how much better and complete the environments would feel if they as much as half the size.  Often it feels that the map is designed to slow down the progress of the player (often an unnecessary amount of npc which are almost always unavoidable).  Imagine playing mass effect 2 but it takes you 5-10 minutes to walk to the quest marker on the opposite side of a village or plain and with the most uninspired combat ever.   Because they have made the world so "expansive," it's ostensibly dead.  Sparsely filled and boring, where as in most bioware games, environments are noticeably more interactive and fulfilled.  I guess I just find myself grimacing as I wish I was just playing kotor 3 rather than another cookie cutter mmo.  :P

Before I was in the beta I was a little excited since it's a Bioware game and I love KotOR. The beta killed all hype for me, the dialogue was fine but it was so damn boring to play.

How does it compare to WoW combat?

I am really loving the quests and dialogue and all that, it is much more engaging than any other MMO, but the combat is just okay to me. Pretty much a wow clone, but they don't do it quite as well. I could see myself leveling a few characters to max, just because of the story, but beyond that I don't know if this game will  keep me coming back for the raids or pvp. Still fun though... for now.

I want to like this game so much...
 
But it's not being released on OSX and I refuse to partition my HDD just to play a game.

Without the Star Wars license no one would care about this game.

Without the Star Wars license no one would care about this game.

How does it compare to WoW combat?

How does it compare to WoW combat?

Thanks for the feedback, at least. It seems to confirm many of my fears for this game.

When it got announced, I felt extremely excited, but seeing what Bioware is doing with the source material, taking no risks, and simply copy-pasting everything that made other MMO's stale treadmills, made my hype meter turn 180 degrees the other way.

It's a damn shame.

I wouldn't want to risk GAZILLIONS of money if I really didn't have to, either. :) 

I don't get it. Why does everyone want the combat in an MMO to change and completly re-invent itself?  Do we complain when a figthing game doesn't come up with new combat?  If you want different combat play DCUO and see how well that worked.
 
This game is a MMO, its not your next KOTOR single player RPG, nor Mass Effect.  This game is a MMO using the KOTOR IP and integrates Bio Ware story telling. 
If you have complaints about how MMO's play that's fine, but why does this franchise have to bear the grunt of your lack of interest in MMO's?  Is it because its a main stream IP?  No one complains that Rift uses classic MMO combat, skill tree's and questing?  TOR will add iterative advancements in the MMO genre,  just like other all other new games do to their respective genres.  
 
As a MMO player I find that not only the fact that my character has an actual Voice, but I can use him to converse in ways never done in the genre.  
Never have I been able to do more then read text and decide to do something or not do it.  Now I can insult, tease, flirt, and lie my way through quest dialog. 
 
This game is built for MMO players.  MMO players play their games in larger social groups and the formula needs to be solid to work.  We expect dialed in mechanics, tight class roles, a long leveling dedication and yes even a subscription fee.  If these things aren't part of your game play then its not your game. No need to join the hate train and declare they screwed stuff up because you don't like MMO's.

@Funkydupe: But making the exact same game as your closest competitor? Really now?

I mean, RIFT is widely regarded as a WoW clone, but at least RIFT had some original ideas.

The latest posts on betacake.com also suggest that there will possibly be a massive backlash from fans when this game is released, because in it's current state, it's nowhere near close to delivering on all the hype. I'm very curious if EA manages to slow down the hype-train a little, because it's going to bite them in the ass afterwards.

I'm not at all disputing the fact that the games are almost identical in the way they are played - I'm just saying that most FPS/TPS/RTS games look similar to me and still they're selling well, and when MMORPGs go the similar rout, which they've done for a decade, people fret about it. To me, the EQ way is how games in the MMORPG genre have stranded for a long time now. Sure, the experience is refined, but the innovations you are seeking have always been marginal and not the biggest thing about those games, they've always been rooted in that same mold. 
 
Now TOR is doing the same, with a huge budget. Adding a few things here and there with the multi-player convos and more cutscenes and such, and they get shot down for doing that. I don't understand. MMORPGs have been like this for a long time because the claim is that Massively Multiplayer games have things like latency issues to worry about that limit how twitch they can truly be. Plus to cater to a massive audience, there aren't really that many alternate solutions to go about the design yet. You can see some indy games trying to take the radical sand-box rout, but they can't really be said to be successful.  
 
Sooner or later a branch of MMORPGs will establish a viable alternative to the TAB-to-target MMOs, but to me both TOR and GW2 is in the exact same mold, sure with some ideas left and right, but fundamentally they're the same. Its funny how one gets knocked and the other isn't. Oh yes, it might be the business model of F2P versus Subscriptions talking. I don't know.

@Funkydupe: You fare under the assumption that TOR actually is of equal quality to WoW.

May I ask, have you played WoW anytime in the last two years? Because it boggles my mind how people look at SWTOR right now, and see it as an improvement on the mold that WoW has created. I seriously cannot comprehend.

I played WoW to the exact level of 30. That was two years ago at least. A Hunter class character if I recall correctly. I have that as my reference of my WoW experience. I'm a casual player, and when I've had my share I usually quit playing. 
 
As for TOR, I've only seen videos and read maybe too much feedback from folks and I've let that be my current impression until I actually get to play it. I have seen the videos to come out of GamesCom and to me it looks very similar. Is it an improvement? I can't say for sure, but it sure doesn't look like its a lot worse. For someone who has played both games, what is your main problem with TOR as it is today compared to WoW in its current state?

Man, this thread just reminded me of how much the beta turned me off this game...Such a bummer D:

Man, this thread just reminded me of how much the beta turned me off this game...Such a bummer D:

@Funkydupe said:

@Cloudenvy said:

Man, this thread just reminded me of how much the beta turned me off this game...Such a bummer D:

Hm, yeah. What did you expect it to be like?

I expected it to be more than WoW with dialogue trees, though that is my own fault for expecting that D:

Hehe.. That is my impression as well. Still need to test it though.. did the beta feel polished to you? Lots of bugs in there?

heeeeyyyy if any of you guys are so bummed by the beta, why not give some poor sap a crack at it =) 
 
I just hope Bioware can maintain their fiction better than Blizzard.

Does TOR have that MMO-thing where random mobs will aggro on you just to waste your time?

That is the single most antiquated MMO mechanic I can think of (and there are tons to choose from), and I can't possibly take an MMO seriously if it continues to use that to waste people's time. WoW at least had the decency to add flying mounts...

@Levio: So when a Jedi runs through and area littered with violent beasts, aggressive thugs, or Sith warriors, it makes sense to you that they stand there and NOT aggro?

@StarvingGamer: If that Jedi has Tier 5 Epic Gear and can 2 shot everything you just mentioned, no, they should not be running up to try to kill the Jedi.

Likewise if the Jedi has killed thousands of their allies, sometimes 3 at a time, and is litterly bathing in their blood, perhaps those bears should not be so aggressive.

But if killing mobs that drop no loot nor gold is a good time for you, boy do I have some good recommendations.

@Levio: If ToR ends up being like any other modern MMO then mobs won't aggro on you if you're dramatically overleveled unless you're standing right on top of them. And yeah, violent feral beasts often exhibit high levels of reasoning.

@StarvingGamer said:

@Levio: If ToR ends up being like any other modern MMO then mobs won't aggro on you if you're dramatically overleveled unless you're standing right on top of them. And yeah, violent feral beasts often exhibit high levels of reasoning.

1) Max level mobs are therefore always going to aggro regardless of the character's strength.

2) You play as a friggin' Jedi, reasoning is hardly required.

God so many trolls today. I swear you should play League of Legends too, you'd fit right in.

@Levio said:

1) Max level mobs are therefore always going to aggro regardless of the character's strength.

2) You play as a friggin' Jedi.

God so many trolls today. I swear you should play League of Legends too, you'd fit right in.

1) So mobs are supposed to be able to con your gear and magically know that you're overpowered?

2) Jedi are purposefully understated in their Jedi-ness. To anyone not force-sensitive they would seem like calm dudes in robes.

I probably would fit right in if I had the time to dedicate to learning it. I'm always up for a tactical, team-based game.

I was going to derisively suggest that you should play a game where enemies that you are warring with only attack if you give them permission to but I couldn't think of one because that would be nonsense.

I don't get it. Why does everyone want the combat in an MMO to change and completly re-invent itself?  Do we complain when a figthing game doesn't come up with new combat?  

@Vitalogy11 said:

I don't get it. Why does everyone want the combat in an MMO to change and completly re-invent itself?  Do we complain when a figthing game doesn't come up with new combat?  

Most people that have quit WoW though has quit because they were tired of MMOs. It's just innate to the genre as the games are designed to keep people playing for ages, unlike most other games that have a natural decline of interest.

@CL60 said:

After playing the beta this doesn't play all that much like WoW. Sure it's similar, but it's noticeably more fast paced, and is more like KOTOR mixed with WoW.

That's great to hear!

Yea, I'm in the beta as well. Just created this account as my normal name is the same as my SWTOR account, and while I don't really care if I get banned, I'd rather not be black-listed for future EA MMO beta-testing. I'm very disappointed in the game. I liked it for about the first couple days and then I just started hating it once I got into the 20's and it became much more of a grind. And the combat just feels terrible to me. I'm actually trying to cancel my pre-order. Has anyone else tried to do this? I go on Origin, click Customer Service, go to the "Returns and Cancellations" section, and try to click the button where it says to ''Contact Us'' for cancelling pre-orders, and the link doesn't work. So honestly I'm not quite sure how to cancel, and was wondering if anyone knew how. If not, I'll try calling them tomorrow during business hours. 

@vazthul said:

Yea, I'm in the beta as well. Just created this account as my normal name is the same as my SWTOR account, and while I don't really care if I get banned, I'd rather not be black-listed for future EA MMO beta-testing. I'm very disappointed in the game. I liked it for about the first couple days and then I just started hating it once I got into the 20's and it became much more of a grind. And the combat just feels terrible to me. I'm actually trying to cancel my pre-order. Has anyone else tried to do this? I go on Origin, click Customer Service, go to the "Returns and Cancellations" section, and try to click the button where it says to ''Contact Us'' for cancelling pre-orders, and the link doesn't work. So honestly I'm not quite sure how to cancel, and was wondering if anyone knew how. If not, I'll try calling them tomorrow during business hours.

Felt the exact same way except when I was in the beta, which was a loooooong time ago, we only had access to levels 1-9 or something. Either way, as buggy as it was back then, and it was fucking buggy believe me, my problem was also the combat. It was just boring. Literally, the only thing I somewhat enjoyed about it was the animation. Also, I don't know if they changed it, but the aggro radius was fucking insane. It was hard to go anywhere without pulling anything. Plus, I think when I'm level 9, level 1 mobs should leave me alone. I pray they fixed that too.

And as far as cancelling goes, a friend tells me he just called support or whoever and cancelled it that way. Just make sure you have your order number, credit card, and pretty much whatever else you need close to you when you call.

BETA DISCLAIMER: Low Level Gameplay Is Not Representative Of The Rest Of The Game 
 
Just because you had to kill over 20 Kor'slugs on Korriban with the same 2-3 skills as part your beta session doesn't mean you should not pursue playing TOR when it launches.

I can already foresee the first week after the mass beta tests start, articles and threads popping up all over the internet saying how drab, dreery, and dull TOR is... when really, these people will have just played through the first 10 to 20 levels of the game.

Without the Star Wars license no one would care about this game.

@Kenobi said:

... entire conversation system seems so disconnected to the rest of the game... plays like an ancient mmo... the movement is plodding, the grind doesn't fit the world... with the most uninspired combat ever...

The game is a KOTOR...

@Kenobi said:

... the grind doesn't fit the world... the world is far larger than what you would expect in a Kotor game, and for the environments seems over done... often it feels that the map is designed to slow down the progress of the player (often an unnecessary amount of npc which are almost always unavoidable)... they have made the world so "expansive," it's ostensibly dead. Sparsely filled and boring...

MMORPG.

What were you expecting? KOTOR played like clunky hell, and MMORPGs are designed to accommodate thousands of players at a single time. Otherwise, you have a million Jedi standing on top of each other in a single small space--sparse, open worlds are the only solution. Or heavy instancing like the original Guild Wars.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a die-hard KOTOR fan, and a pretty big fan of MMORPGs. But your expectations seem to fantasize an experience that cannot exist. At least not while BioWare is hamstrung in the middle of catering to both the KOTOR fans and the MMORPG fans whilst working around technological limitations and a budget that isn't any more uncanny than it currently is.

@Kenobi said:

the grind doesn't fit the world.

They have stated several times that there will be enough XP if you just go through the story quests to reach the level cap and not have to grind and that you get more XP from quests than grinding monsters. So I'm sure it's a grind if you just go out and attack monsters since they want to funnel people towards doing quests. Or maybe it was not balanced in the beta. In any case it does not seem like they are focusing on grind.

Oh hey, it's another one of these threads.

@coakroach said:

Without the Star Wars license no one would care about this game.

Completely agree. Too much focus on story and not enough on gameplay means a short-lived experience as players mine out all of the story and are left with nothing after the carcass has been gnawed down to the bone.

There is territorial conquest type pvp, warzones I believe, ala Warhammer Online. That at least has an impact on the players of both sides in the struggle.

I got in the beta a couple weeks back and I can honestly say this is one of the dullest MMOs I've ever played.
It's like they worked overtime to suck the atmosphere and soul out of it. I've played F2P MMOs that are at least five times more fun than this.
This game will fail. Hard. It's almost like a really bad joke.

@coakroach: The game you're looking for is EVE Online

@Kaiji: Yeah..no.. even if you did get into the beta, (which is highly unlikely and you're just looking for another reason to bash the game and come off looking right, beings as your account was clearly created for the sole purpose of bashing the game) you're exaggerating massively and just went into the game with the mindset of. I HATE THIS! I got into the beta a few months ago and it's everything I thought it was going to be, and I'm buying it day 1. All you've done on this site is make an account, bash TOR and make a wishlist of only GW2.

OK, you have no respect for my opinion. I got the message before, but thanks for keeping me updated.
Yes, I'm extremely excited for Guild Wars 2. What does that prove? It proves I like MMOs that don't suck.
As I said, I'm GLAD you like TOR. See how I don't tear your opinion apart? It's because I have the humility and decency to respect other people's opinions. It's a shame you can't do the same.