Should this be here or the TOR page? I dunno, I'll leave it here for now.
 
In this weeks bombcast Jeff was back and gave his opinions on TOR. The entire time it was complaining about the faults of the game. Space missions suck, repeating dialog, boring planets, bonus missions suck, MMO quests suck, story spread too thin and gets uninteresting, planet levels force you to take a linear path, elevators piss him off, clapping guy in cantinas, flashpoints after the first are boring. Even Patrick goes "That sounds horrible!" while Jeff was talking about it. Brad seemed very turned off after a while and Ryan was fairly neutral.  The thing is he WILLINGLY invested 100 hours+ into the game. Jeff has blown off a lot of quality games after a level or an hour or, hell, 20 minutes yet this game he seemed SUPER negative about, a game you'd probably see end up with a 1 or 2 star review he has put a ton of holiday time in playing. It made no sense to me because the entire time I was thinking why did he put such a huge amount of time into a game he is clearly so negative towards. I have a lot of issues with Oblivion but I can never say it was a bad game because I put 120 hours into it and that is a HUGE amount of time, unbearable for something that you dislike. 
 
Am I the only one who found it a bit strange?
 
P.S Just to make it clear this isn't a "omg tor is awesome jeff sucks!" kind of post, he can have any opinion he wants about it but I found it very conflicting with the time he put in.

I don't think he is saying it is a 1 or 2 star game. I think he just played it so much that every little thing started bugging him and he couldn't enjoy it anymore. He's recognized that it is not his kind of game, and that other people who enjoy MMOs more will enjoy it more than him.

I really think the only reason he played it for 100+ hours is because he wanted to give it a chance to grow on him, and to see if it ever got any better.

@The_Medic said:

I really think the only reason he played it for 100+ hours is because he wanted to give it a chance to grow on him, and to see if it ever got any better.

This, basically. He stated before that it's stupid to pass judgement on an MMO without sinking some serious time into it, due to the nature of the genre. (like how WoW at levels 1 through 50 are not at all representative of WoW after 50)

As an MMO, it's meant to hold up after extremely extensive playing. It did not.

he's a critic, he's been doing it so long that it's embedded in his soul to find the faults of the game even though he was deeply invested for so long.

Need I bring up all the WoW (or any MMO really) players who you see on every forum who have also spent hundreds, if not thousands, of hours in-game yet when you ask them about it, they act like it's the worst thing in the world?

This is like that except Jeff isn't afraid to admit that he actually liked some parts. That and he's able to speak like an adult about it.

Wait, you mean Jeff is being cynical?

Stop the fucking presses.

If you've put 100+ hours into a game, I'd expect you to have a huge list of criticisms, regardless of your overall opinion of it.

Plenty of people put crazy amounts into MMOs even though they don't enjoy them that much - that is the power of the MMO

Personally I have played World of Warcraft since its release, and I kept playing long after I stopped enjoying it.

Also putting so much time into the game in a short time will expose you to the repetitive nature of MMOs and can potentially sour you on the experience; which is what I think might have happened to Jeff.

he's a critic, he's been doing it so long that it's embedded in his soul to find the faults of the game even though he was deeply invested for so long.

I really think the only reason he played it for 100+ hours is because he wanted to give it a chance to grow on him, and to see if it ever got any better.

So? I played wow for like 300 hours and its shit.

Simply because it's a big MMO that needs coverage, coverage that requires a lot of time to be put into it. And really as you listen to his criticisms of it, it seems more slanted toward the fact that it's not some amazing, revolutionary experience and rather is a perfectly competent competitor to WOW with great class story missions. I didn't get the impression at all that he though it was a 1 or 2 star game, chalk it up to MMO fatigue and the fact that, in the end it's just an MMO.

i put 120 hours into skyrim and could happily talk shit about that game for days

No, I didn't find an opinion strange.

He doesn't like MMOs and he hates Star Wars like it makes him better for hating it. They made a Star Wars MMO. It doesn't even matter the quality because he was in it to shit on it from before it was even out. He was talking shit about this game from the first fucking trailer years ago. I have no idea why they decided to make him take the lead on this game. It makes no fucking sense. Especially since Jeff is in charge of assignments. So Jeff went "here's something I'm never going to like, the only reason I should play it is to give ammo for people who don't like it, because there is no possible way I'm ever, ever going to enjoy it. Sounds like a good assignment."

Haven't even listened to this week's Bombcast, because I don't like being bummed out. Listening to a bunch of people saying that I must be stupid to enjoy something so terrible would probably bum me out. I could've told you Dave wouldn't like it, because it's not a social engineering simulator, and Brad can't get through a sentence without referring to Skyrim. Man, I'm already bummed out just thinking about it.

I am having fun in SWTOR, though. Ran a shitty flashpoint last night, though. Guess its a terrible game.

I don't find it strange because you usually can't properly judge an MMO until you're over 100 hours in. 

Yeah when I heard that podcast I started changing his critique points in my head to something positive. "Hey guys. Your character says the same thing in a lot of conversations, kind of like a tagline! It's like you're playing the Fonz! It's awesome you guys!"

As I wrote in the QuickLook, Jeff is so obviously tsundere for TOR just because it's not Star Trek, since it seemed obvious at that point that he was going to keep playing it. At 100+ hours of concentrated play, there's nothing wrong with quitting it because you've had enough, even though I kinda doubt he did because it didn't sound like it on the Podcast. Despite all his critique of the game he keeps coming back, so it's obviously a well made game that has hooks that want you to keep playing.

You have to get into an mmo's late game in order to see if any of what you are doing is truly worth it. Many people would say that WoW doesn't get good until you've maxed leveled and started raiding. Which was certainly the case when WoW was new.

The people who thought they wouldn't like it ended up not liking it, and the people who got themselves mega-hyped for it ended up liking it... at least for now. We'll see how long that lasts. If it's anything like Skyrim then the backlash is due any day now.

I guess he wanted to see where the story was going, but the mmo-ness of it is starting to turn him off from it (at least that's what I got from what he said)

There's friends of mine who log on to SWTOR daily, play for an hour, complaining nonstop about how broken or fucked up the game is and then log out again.
 
What the fuck people, don't play it if you're so against it.
Do those people go to their sports club too and complain while doing their sport? Are they whining over food they made themselves?
 
I have heard a little about the TOR thing regarding the bombcrew and I'll agree with you, there's time spend in it and you can't tell me they did so with a gun to their heads.
Sure it might not be what you expected or what you wanted it to be, but you played it and did enjoy some of it, highlight those areas, tell us why you're against it otherwise and shut, the, fuck, up.
 
Make your point and move on, the more you talk about such a thing the worse you make it look.

I played STWOR, it was an okay MMORPG. It was not great, but playable. If I was bored and had a week off and my back log of games was low I may play it for 100+ hours as well, that does not mean I will not have criticism about it.

A hundred hours in an MMO isn't that much, is it? The leveling addiction alone can make that amount of time to fly by. Or in Jeff's case, the story element, wich he seemed quite fond of. Core MMO-players are more interested at the content beyond those hours and that's where the game breaks down (in Jeff's opinion, I have no clue).

I bet if he played one or two hours, someone would make a thread "Jeff seemed very negative about a game he just invested 2 hours into". It's an MMO, it can't be properly judged without spending a lot of time into it. And maybe he liked it a lot in the beginning, i dunno.

I heard Jeff hates Star Wars, not sure

I put 140 hours into Battlefield 3 multiplayer and I can tell you that I have way more complaints about that game than I do compliments. I keep playing it because friends ask me to play with them, and I feel like they play because they paid the $60+$15 for it.

Jeff already paid for his membership and during a time where not many games are coming out it makes sense to put some time into a game like TOR.

I've invested countless hours into life and I hate almost every minute of it.

@Brodehouse: Maybe you should listen to the bombcast before raging your ignorant mouth like that.

The people who thought they wouldn't like it ended up not liking it, and the people who got themselves mega-hyped for it ended up liking it... at least for now. We'll see how long that lasts. If it's anything like Skyrim then the backlash is due any day now.

I can tell this game sucks just by looking at the quicklook.

@MikeGosot said:

I bet if he played one or two hours, someone would make a thread "Jeff seemed very negative about a game he just invested 2 hours into". It's an MMO, it can't be properly judged without spending a lot of time into it. And maybe he liked it a lot in the beginning, i dunno.

This already happened. But it was Brad not Jeff http://www.giantbomb.com/star-wars-the-old-republic/61-24205/brad-stop-playing-this-game-after-level-3/35-529262/#102

I put 160hours into Skyrim and for a lot of that time I enjoyed it, sadly when you play a game for that amount of time you really start to see the faults and actively dislike many aspects of it. If I had stopped playing it around 50hours I may have come away from it much more positive. Can see how this may have happened for Jeff with SWTOR.

@DarkbeatDK said:

Yeah when I heard that podcast I started changing his critique points in my head to something positive. "Hey guys. Your character says the same thing in a lot of conversations, kind of like a tagline! It's like you're playing the Fonz! It's awesome you guys!"

As I wrote in the QuickLook, Jeff is so obviously tsundere for TOR just because it's not Star Trek, since it seemed obvious at that point that he was going to keep playing it. At 100+ hours of concentrated play, there's nothing wrong with quitting it because you've had enough, even though I kinda doubt he did because it didn't sound like it on the Podcast. Despite all his critique of the game he keeps coming back, so it's obviously a well made game that has hooks that want you to keep playing.

Jeff didn't play much Star Trek Online after the initial buzz. His relationship with that game isn't unlike his relationship with TOR.

Also, his lifetime subscription to Star Trek Online is meaningless now that the game is free to play.

Ugh, there's so many GB people who can't seem to put what the staff says in the proper perspective. Just adding up all the criticisms that Jeff talked about and saying "Well it must be a one star game!" is completely missing the point.

Wait, you mean Jeff is being cynical?

Stop the fucking presses.

I'm pretty sure he actually does like it, at least enough to continue playing. It's just easier to complain about stuff than it is to talk about all the good things.

During the GOTY deliberations, Jeff seemed really down on Skyrim, but he also said he loves the game. I think Jeff is just that kind of guy.

@Brodehouse said:

He doesn't like MMOs and he hates Star Wars like it makes him better for hating it. They made a Star Wars MMO. It doesn't even matter the quality because he was in it to shit on it from before it was even out. He was talking shit about this game from the first fucking trailer years ago. I have no idea why they decided to make him take the lead on this game. It makes no fucking sense. Especially since Jeff is in charge of assignments. So Jeff went "here's something I'm never going to like, the only reason I should play it is to give ammo for people who don't like it, because there is no possible way I'm ever, ever going to enjoy it. Sounds like a good assignment." Haven't even listened to this week's Bombcast, because I don't like being bummed out. Listening to a bunch of people saying that I must be stupid to enjoy something so terrible would probably bum me out. I could've told you Dave wouldn't like it, because it's not a social engineering simulator, and Brad can't get through a sentence without referring to Skyrim. Man, I'm already bummed out just thinking about it. I am having fun in SWTOR, though. Ran a shitty flashpoint last night, though. Guess its a terrible game.

Good lord man, relax just a little bit there. If you actually sat down and listened to his thoughts you would know that he made it VERY clear that it's not his type of game, but fans of MMOs would probably like it. He didn't shit on anything. He made very clear points on the MMO troupes that the game follows that he doesn't like. No need to act like he ruined your Christmas or something.

I actually see it as a positive for the game he's put 100 hours into a genre he's sick of in a universe he thinks is dumb. Yeah he has complaints but for someone who was so down on the game before playing it, I'd say its a sign that person who is into those things is gonna enjoy it.

@Brodehouse said:

@Jimbo

The people who thought they wouldn't like it ended up not liking it, and the people who got themselves mega-hyped for it ended up liking it... at least for now. We'll see how long that lasts. If it's anything like Skyrim then the backlash is due any day now.

What backlash? Skyrim came out to unmitigated acclaim...

That isn't how a backlash works.

@MikeGosot Because the common sense is either "How are you THAT negative over something you barely played?" or "How did you play THAT MUCH of something you don't like?". Like Portal 2 and me just don't click. I did play enough to finish it, but I didn't play much more. It would be crazy if I disliked it and then decided to S-Rank it. If I had just started it and quit after the first puzzle, it would be crazy for me to go off on it with so much negativity.

This is why I never play MMO's because there is no way im paying u a monthly fee in order to get to the good part 100+ hours in. IMO if a MMO's beginning sucks then well its not a great game pretty simple, saying you have to play a game 100+ hours before it becomes fun is stupid and a waste of time and money.

@Brodehouse said:

@Jimbo

The people who thought they wouldn't like it ended up not liking it, and the people who got themselves mega-hyped for it ended up liking it... at least for now. We'll see how long that lasts. If it's anything like Skyrim then the backlash is due any day now.

What backlash? Skyrim came out to unmitigated acclaim...

That isn't how a backlash works.

Yeah, it may sound ridiculous to play a game for that long, but like mentioned before, I think he wanted it to grow on him so he kept playing to see what's next, and I guess for him there wasn't a lot (or at least enough) of exciting stuff to see. To a smaller extent yet still a ridiculous amount of time spent on a game for me would have been Skyward Sword, I didn't find much of that to be exciting, but I wanted to see what was next to see if I'd like it more, but it never really happened.

I spent 40 hours on something that kind of bored me more than it excited me. I've played games that last 60 hours and I was fine all the way through, but I was tired of Skyward Sword after about five to ten hours in. Maybe he had the same dilemma. Or maybe it's the same as when I wish I liked a game more than I did (like Crysis 2), and I'll keep playing it to try and get a better experience, so far for all the games I have tried it on, it's worked.

@Brodehouse said:

@MannySavior Well he didn't. I just prefer the 'funny, yet insightful' part of Giant Bomb and not the 'negative about everything' part. I'd read more Jim Sterling for the latter.

But he wasn't negative about everything...He clearly highlighted the good and bad parts.

@Bones8677: Your avatar is fantastic.

I don't think Jeff plays MMOs to do MMO combat and MMO quests and to experience the world of an MMO. I feel like Jeff plays MMOs as an excuse to hang out with his friends, and apparently all his friends wanted to try out The Old Republic, so he did, too. I feel like that is what has kept him going despite hating Star Wars and not being particularly interested in MMOs.

As for his criticisms of the game, well despite his anti-MMO stance, he has stated that he finds the game enjoyable in certain ways. Despite this, I feel he comes across as so harshly critical towards it because of the expectations created by the game's long development cycle, massive budget and huge amounts of advertising and spin from EA. That is something completely different from genre fatigue or Star Wars hate; this is something that can be applied to any game that receives a sufficient amount of hype. The Old Republic was billed as a WoW killer, and Jeff is simply expressing his views on why and how the game fails to match WoW and his disappointment at how similar the overall experience is. It's the exact same reason why Will Smith torpedo'd the Kindle Fire; he was reacting to the hype, not to the actual product.

Jeff has always been negative on TOR. I'd like to think he is impartial all the time, but no critic is since each comes to the table with their own preferences. If you want a more upbeat (but still critical) assessment of TOR, listen to Weekend Confirmed. When it comes to Jeff's response to TOR, I could see the writing on the wall months ago. I am really not too swayed in either direction and plan to check it out for myself eventually. I'm not even sure what I want from an MMO these days after getting burned out on WOW a few years back, so it will be an interesting exploration.