@Rawson said:
@FateOfNever said:
@Rawson said:
@CL60 said:
@Rawson said:
Considering they ripped everything else off of WoW, I don't see why they wouldn't do this element as well.
Oh look, it's that terrible argument that makes no sense again.
"This game has similar combat, EVERYTHING IS RIPPED FROM WOW!!!!"
Yes, the combat. AKA, 99% of everything you do in every MMO ever. But I guess a half-assed (literally, half of the Mass Effect wheel) conversation system makes it suddenly a genius decision?
That doesn't even excuse that the quest objectives themselves all boiled down to your standard MMO "kill X of these guys/right-click on Y things/get Z items."
Edit: Seriously, how does the argument make no sense? We lump Red Dead Redemption and Saints Row into the same boat as Grand Theft Auto, and they've got a lot more differences between themselves than TOR and WoW. If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and involves pressing 1-2-3-4 on my keyboard until I die from boredom like a duck...
Hold on, let me boil every genre of game down for you - "Follow this fixed storyline path until you win." "Shoot dude in face to win." "Stab dudes to win." "Solve this puzzle to win." Well shit, games are pretty boring, huh? You don't believe me? Go play the original DOOM. Now go play MW3. I bet you're still doing the exact same thing of shooting dudes to win. Shit, Skyrim even uses that same formula for questing, and yet people can't stop talking about how much content it has and how much they love it. Explain that one to me, if "kill x number of guys or collect x number of something" is so old and boring and doesn't cut it anymore, why does Skyrim get away with it?
Edit: If you're going to try and say that GTA, RDR, and SR are all drastically different games than what ToR and WoW are, then you are not ACTUALLY comparing ToR and WoW, you are only comparing the parts of them that you want to compare, not the total packages.
I'm giving TOR shit because of the way this particular formula's designed. Skyrim gets a pass because - while the system may be a bit simplistic - it's fundamentally engaging. I don't find EQ/WoW/DikuMUD MMOs engaging anymore. It's that simple, and yes, totally subjective. I admit that I'm influenced heavily by the fact that I've played a ton of MMOs, and am incredibly jaded to the whole concept. I think I can see the strings being pulled and what these games boil down to, and I don't find enough in TOR to separate it from the formula that I've found so incredibly stale. At this point, if I had to choose a Star Wars MMO to play, I'd rather go with old-school SWG. While it had problems everywhere you look, at least it tried to do things a bit differently.
As for the GTA/RDR/SR comment, I was trying to say that people accept those comparisons. However, the moment you say, "Hey, guys? TOR borrows a lot from WoW." or "Hey, guys? You remember what happened when we all got excited for Age of Conan/Warhammer Online/Lord of the Rings Online/Rift/Aion/etc." you find yourself with people jumping down your throat over how you're a terrible person for daring to say that The Holy One could be derivative and might not be worth the ridiculous amount of hype it generates.
Now see, I kind of get where you're coming from. I certainly don't disagree that there could, and even really SHOULD, be MMO's out there that offer a different experience from what WoW does. You don't want every game to be the same (i.e. if every shooter is built just like Modern Warfare, then it all just feels bogged down and boring.) At the same time, however, I think part of the problem, or, at least the defensiveness that people have about saying MMO's need to change is that it is often expressed with a tone of "these games can't survive anymore." Where as those that want to defend the 'standard' MMO style still genuinely enjoy that experience, and don't see why their game needs to stop existing just because others don't like it (or like it anymore.) There's room in the market for this style of play still, I think, and 10 million some odd WoW subscribers sort of supports that belief, or, at least gives it some amount of credibility. But yeah, especially for the "people being TOO defensive on change" thing, I get. Hell, I remember when ToR started gaining even the slightest amount of hype and started touting what changes it was making to the standard formula, the voice acting, the class storylines, the no-auto attacks, the companions, so on, so forth, and even then there were a lot of people who all but scoffed at the idea that ANY of that was even remotely wanted by anyone or that any of it was even possibly good innovations. Admittedly, now, you still have people saying "well that's just not enough change!" but, I digress. What I do mean to say, in the end, is that there's still currently room for the standard MMO, so long as it actually tries to grow the genre and add noticeable changes, even if they are small, but there is ALSO room for MMO's that are completely different and take huge risks that might or might not pay off at all. So can't we all get along?
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