Now That's a DICK MOVE

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#1 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

I've been doing the MMO-thing for a while now, but this is the first time I ran into the case, where I absolutely need to subscribe before getting access to my 30 days of free gametime. So essentially I paid 60$ for the client files, nothing else. The so called 30 days of free playtime. I'll be able to access it by doubling down on a 40$ 60 days gametime card.

I faintly remember tricking WoW into giving me access, but both Age of Conan and Warhammer Online let me play my 30 days of free gametime just like that. I mean seriously! 30 days of free gametime are there, so I can play the game and find out if it's worth a subscription fee. The way it's set-up, it's just a bloody scam. SW:TOR's actual retail pricing is 100$ with 90 days of gametime.

I don't appreciate being strongarmed like that. Dick move. All the fun I had up to now. Well - just F*** off. How's that for fun.

#2 Posted by Bocam (3681 posts) -

What the fuck are you talking about? You don't need to pay to access your free game time

#3 Posted by Jimi (1126 posts) -

@Bocam: You can either input your card details for a monthly sub or you have to buy a gametime card. It won't let you play the game unless you have done one of those two, I had that problem earlier. It's pretty dumb.

#4 Posted by Bocam (3681 posts) -

@Jimi: They don't charge your card until the free game time is up.

#5 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@Bocam said:

What the fuck are you talking about? You don't need to pay to access your free game time

In Europe CCs are not as common as in America. Personally - I carry cash and enjoy the trust of my retailers sending me shit with a physical invoice attached to it. I might be the exception for my age range, but nobody under 18 has a CC around my parts. Most young adults under 30 don't either.

Essentially it's 100$ to play SW:TOR for a majority of Europeans. They definitely have these statistics and it's a bloody DICK MOVE to force a 100$ purchase on us, just to try the game. I paid 60$ with the justified expection to play the game for 30 days and make up my mind during that time.

Don't get me wrong. I love the game thus far and I'm getting sent a Game Time Code by my retailer via E-Mail later today. I just find the audacity of this practice unbelievable. I'm incredulous at the true cost of playing an MMO at launch. Just because MMO players are used to this being the case, doesn't make it right.

We are getting strongarmed here. I for one will side with ArenaNet, who stop holding a subscription fee over their playerbase's heads, whilst not giving up on building proper pay-2-play games. Assuming GW2's gonna be good and grows even better over time, I'll never ever put out for a subscription MMO ever again. Because if ArenaNet makes it work, it essentially proves all subscription MMOs are gigantic scam.

I'd really love to know the profit margin of WoW versus any other game. It must be ludicrous what we're willing to pay.

#6 Posted by Bocam (3681 posts) -

@Seppli:But EA doesn't care about Europe

#7 Posted by stinky (1544 posts) -

kind of a dick move, but common for an MMO. i wouldn't have jumped in without a credit card.

bit ridiculous not to have one.

#8 Edited by Marz (5646 posts) -

same problem, free game time gets eaten away if you don't have a credit card... i have to go buy a game card... not optimal and i'm putting in extra money for something i already paid for ( my free 30 days access)...

#9 Posted by Brodehouse (9650 posts) -

Nonstop barrage of tears. No one reads anything anymore until it's too damn late. My girlfriend works at GameStop, she gave me a dozen stories of clowns who can't be bothered to read the text on the fucking launcher.

I'm sorry, I'm just sick of QQ about something that's been common to MMOs for a decade now.

#10 Posted by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@Marz said:

same problem, free game time gets eaten away if you don't have a credit card... i have to go buy a game card... not optimal and i'm putting in extra money for something i already paid for ( my free 30 days access)...

I was searching for a how-to to get my account activated without GTC. There's ways to do it. I just don't remember how. And all I found was an angry mob. I couldn't beat them. So I joined them.

Time to crunch some irons. Should help with the resentment.

#11 Posted by TaliciaDragonsong (8698 posts) -

Its a stupid thing I agree, but sadly very common.
 
I'm sure to enjoy the first three months of it though, no doubt.

#12 Posted by ImpendingFoil (555 posts) -
@Seppli

@Marz said:

same problem, free game time gets eaten away if you don't have a credit card... i have to go buy a game card... not optimal and i'm putting in extra money for something i already paid for ( my free 30 days access)...

I was searching for a how-to to get my account activated without GTC. There's ways to do it. I just don't remember how. And all I found was an angry mob. I couldn't beat them. So I joined them.

Time to crunch some irons. Should help with the resentment.

I do not think I ever played an MMO that did not want payment info right off the bat.
#13 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@Brodehouse said:

Nonstop barrage of tears. No one reads anything anymore until it's too damn late. My girlfriend works at GameStop, she gave me a dozen stories of clowns who can't be bothered to read the text on the fucking launcher. I'm sorry, I'm just sick of QQ about something that's been common to MMOs for a decade now.

Common maybe. But hardly ironclad or Common Sense. It's EA's and Bioware's choice to alienate everyone without a credit card. I'd say that's a majority of their day 1 playerbase. Smooth launch my ass.

And not everybody is American or a Veteran MMO player. Europeans still have enough trust in their cash and people to live without CCs just fine. Why would I pay 100$ a year for a service I can do without? Making me more vulnerable to scamming and phishing arsehats? Opening up the risk of debt?

Game Time Cards do exist because of the European market. They are fully aware that they strongarm us into a 100$ purchase. It's simply in bad taste and I resent them for it. I am more likely to jump ship than I was before today - for sure.

#14 Posted by Brodehouse (9650 posts) -
@Seppli I see you've decided to take a common business practice for MMOs to guarantee a subscription base at their most popular moment, and turn it into some sort of nationalist inferiority complex issue. It's good to know that you're not going to reasonable. Asking for subs at launch has nothing to do with whatever derangements about America you have. I'm not American either.
#15 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@ImpendingFoil said:

@Seppli

@Marz said:

same problem, free game time gets eaten away if you don't have a credit card... i have to go buy a game card... not optimal and i'm putting in extra money for something i already paid for ( my free 30 days access)...

I was searching for a how-to to get my account activated without GTC. There's ways to do it. I just don't remember how. And all I found was an angry mob. I couldn't beat them. So I joined them.

Time to crunch some irons. Should help with the resentment.

I do not think I ever played an MMO that did not want payment info right off the bat.

There's always been ways around it and some just let me play without it. I've been able to play every subscription MMO I bought for my free 30 day trial without putting down my payment info. Sadly I didn't find a walkthrough for SW:TOR yet.

Regardless of the facts. It's a shitty practice and it boils down to strongarming a substantial part of their users into buying a Game Time Card to even play the game.

We already payed 60$. How's that for a payment plan?

#16 Edited by White_Silhouette (470 posts) -

I activated my card that came with my game on swtor.com and haven't had to add any type of credit card or time card. I've been playing it just fine.

edit: unless that changed today. Haven't logged in today which i think is end of the grace period.

#17 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@Brodehouse said:

@Seppli I see you've decided to take a common business practice for MMOs to guarantee a subscription base at their most popular moment, and turn it into some sort of nationalist inferiority complex issue. It's good to know that you're not going to reasonable. Asking for subs at launch has nothing to do with whatever derangements about America you have. I'm not American either.

Still you act like everybody has a credit card or wants one. And you defend a shitty business practice. And call people clowns, who are upset about this circumstance. I'm reasonable enough to have GTC coming my way today. I don't give a rats ass about my principles, but I sure like to voice them.

All I say is: 'BE ADVISED - SW:TOR COSTS 100$ TO PLAY, IF YOU AIN'T GOT A CREDIT CARD - YOU'LL BE STRONGARMED INTO BUYING 40$ WORTH OF PLAYTIME!'

Defending a dick move, is a dick move.

#18 Posted by Mr_Skeleton (5138 posts) -

@Bocam said:

@Seppli:But EA doesn't care about Europe

That's only because Europe has no money right now.

#19 Posted by Canteu (2821 posts) -

You know, Debit Cards totally work for pretty much all online transactions. Nobody has credit cards anymore, because of Debit Cards. If you don't have one of those then you have a crappy bank.

#20 Posted by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@White_Silhouette said:

I activated my card that came with my game on swtor.com and haven't had to add any type of credit card or time card. I've been playing it just fine.

edit: unless that changed today. Haven't logged in today which i think is end of the grace period.

It has changed. Grace period was announced to end tomorrow. It didn't. It ended today.

#21 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4609 posts) -

@Seppli: I was in the shop this morning and eyeing the Old Republic pretty intently. Almost bought it then and there, but after seeing this post I'm wary of it now.

I remember getting pretty heavy into City of Heroes about four years ago, and that game let me play my purchased copy without a time card. I'm in the same boat as you, pretty much. Don't like CC's and don't trust them. I figured it was standard for MMO's to let you buy the game, play for your 30 days, and then tell you to fuck off, but apparently that's changed?

I don't even really know if TOR will run on my PC. I'm pretty sure it will, this game runs a lot of stuff at medium settings... but this is still a bothersome discovery.

#22 Edited by tekmojo (2299 posts) -

One thing that has saved me, read between the lines. I mean how many MMOs have we had? This is common practice. They need to have a credit/debit card on file.

#23 Posted by Azteck (7449 posts) -

Wait.. credit cards aren't as common in Europe? I don't know a single person who only carries a card and no bills. Neither people my age or older. What kind of a country do you live in?

#24 Posted by Veektarius (4647 posts) -

This is a common practice and you should have a credit card. If you decide to shun societal trends, expect for society to make things harder for you.

#25 Posted by Chemin (632 posts) -

Credit/debit cards (especially the latter) are extremely common in Sweden at least, I don't know where you live, but I doubt it's that uncommon in the rest of Europe.

#26 Posted by Scooper (7882 posts) -

I thought it was kind of a dick move too that I have to sign up for a recurring subscription before I can even play the game. At least I can cancel it before my free 29 days are up and I won't get charged. Kinda annoyed that I have to give them my card details to be able to even play it, though.

#27 Posted by Metalhead79 (55 posts) -

I've played several MMOs over the last six years. SWG, WoW, AoC, WAR, Aion, LOTRO, Rift, and now SWTOR. Every single one of them required me to setup my subscription before being able to play my thirty free days. They don't charge until the thirtieth day, so if you don't like the game just cancel it before your time is up.

#28 Posted by Jack268 (3387 posts) -

I don't know if you implied that WoW did this too, but I'm 100% confident that it doesn't.

#29 Posted by Chemin (632 posts) -

@Scooper said:

I thought it was kind of a dick move too that I have to sign up for a recurring subscription before I can even play the game. At least I can cancel it before my free 29 days are up and I won't get charged. Kinda annoyed that I have to give them my card details to be able to even play it, though.

It sucks, but it's also the way MMOs have been doing business for years. SWTOR is not the first, by a long shot.

#30 Posted by Brodehouse (9650 posts) -
@Seppli You're just an emotional flurry of QQ right now. No point telling the wind not to blow.
#31 Edited by Jeust (10488 posts) -

I also was suckered into it, being it my first paid mmo.

And in Portugal, credit cards aren't very common till you're thirty or more years old, but you can get around it with debit cards.

I understand where you're coming from, still if you want to play the game you have to follow the rules that are laid. It's as simple as that.

#32 Posted by project343 (2812 posts) -
@Jimi

@Bocam: You can either input your card details for a monthly sub or you have to buy a gametime card. It won't let you play the game unless you have done one of those two, I had that problem earlier. It's pretty dumb.

That's sort of the standard for every high-profile MMO. You need to validate the account with a credit card in order to access the game's free month.
#33 Posted by Icil (727 posts) -

@Brodehouse said:

@Seppli You're just an emotional flurry of QQ right now. No point telling the wind not to blow.

Stop replying to this thread. Seriously.

#34 Posted by Scooper (7882 posts) -

@Chemin said:

@Scooper said:

I thought it was kind of a dick move too that I have to sign up for a recurring subscription before I can even play the game. At least I can cancel it before my free 29 days are up and I won't get charged. Kinda annoyed that I have to give them my card details to be able to even play it, though.

It sucks, but it's also the way MMOs have been doing business for years. SWTOR is not the first, by a long shot.

It was just a little bummer. I went to the highstreet a couple hours ago, I buy the game (£45! What a rip. Damn High-Street shops). I get the game home and find out I got to pledge another £9 so I can play it. Still, I don't mind that much. The game looks really good.

#35 Posted by Strawb (31 posts) -

@Chemin said:

Credit/debit cards (especially the latter) are extremely common in Sweden at least, I don't know where you live, but I doubt it's that uncommon in the rest of Europe.

Yeah this "credit cards aren't common in Europe" statement is stupid. There's way too many countries involved to make a statement like that.

#36 Posted by Swoxx (2988 posts) -

Everyone above 18 has a VISA / Mastercard in my parts at least.

#37 Posted by Benny (1948 posts) -

The worst thing about paying monthly for it is that the only reason they charge you a monthly fee is because it's expected in the genre. There's actually no financial need to do so, and they charge it because they know people will pay it. The actual cost of maintaining servers is much, much lower than it was a few years ago.

#38 Posted by McShank (1629 posts) -

@Seppli: Wow was this way. DC universe was this way at launch.. I believe Rift was the same also.. All MMO's require some sore of payment info BEFORE you can start the game for the free time.. if you are so butt hurt about it, be like everyone else, get a CC or hell... a Debit card :O <------ My god, who knew! And put it on the account. Start the game then go and remove that cards info and you are done.

#39 Posted by Fattony12000 (7100 posts) -

Debit card.

#40 Edited by Cretaceous_Bob (505 posts) -

Honestly, I don't know why the fuck you want to spend $60 on a game that you're not sure you're going to want to play it for more than 30 days.

#41 Edited by Kyle (2323 posts) -

Every subscription anything in the history of ever asks for your credit/debit card before giving you your free trial time. Welcome to Earf.

@Canteu said:

You know, Debit Cards totally work for pretty much all online transactions. Nobody has credit cards anymore, because of Debit Cards. If you don't have one of those then you have a crappy bank.

#42 Edited by Icil (727 posts) -

@Cretaceous_Bob said:

Honestly, I don't know why the fuck you want to spend $60 on a game that you're not sure you're going to want to play it for more than 30 days.

Well, when it comes to any other game, I'm sure the OP likes to rent/GameFly/pirate (at least I do), but MMOs don't have that luxury. Unless there is a promotion of free game time? (like a 7 day trial ala WoW?)

30 days is not a bad lifetime for a video game, too. But personally I like to get more than that when I drop 60$.

Also, anyone remember the good ol days when PC titles were 50$?

EDIT: Too lazy to grab the quote, but when I was a kid and didn't have any debit/credit card, WoW let me use prepaid cards and would simply cut my account when it ran out of time. It's definitely a new practice to require the payment info of your card.

It's also not a coincidence that by making the charge automatic after your 30 day trial, companies make more money than if they did the right thing and cease your account until you add your payment info.

#43 Posted by Cretaceous_Bob (505 posts) -

I don't pay $60 for games I don't know if I'm going to like. I don't rent/GameFly/pirate. If I don't have a good sense that I'm going to want to play a game for more than 30 days, I don't pay $60 to play it. I guess it just seems alien to me how MMOs have conditioned the way people think about games and money, because when I pay $60 for a multiplayer game, I expect to be playing that game for 6 months at least.

#44 Posted by NekuCTR (1663 posts) -

It's not a dick move because you know what you were getting into. they explicitly state "this how it's going to go down if you use cash, and this is also how it has always worked for most everyone else." And sorry to phrase this like this, but whats up with absolutely no Europeans knowing about Debit Cards?

#45 Posted by ALavaPenguin (182 posts) -

I dunno I always have to input a card for anything like this. This I think is pretty standard.

#46 Posted by CL60 (16906 posts) -

@Kyle said:

@Canteu said:

You know, Debit Cards totally work for pretty much all online transactions. Nobody has credit cards anymore, because of Debit Cards. If you don't have one of those then you have a crappy bank.

I have a debit card, but my debit card is Maestro so no, it doesn't work for ANYTHING.

But regardless. I just used Paypal to get my free month, then cancelled, because I'm going to use gamecards most likely.

#47 Posted by Zimbo (875 posts) -

@NekuCTR said:

It's not a dick move because you know what you were getting into. they explicitly state "this how it's going to go down if you use cash, and this is also how it has always worked for most everyone else." And sorry to phrase this like this, but whats up with absolutely no Europeans knowing about Debit Cards?

Yeah, thats not true. Debit cards are common in most of Europe. Hell, in the UK it would be strange if you didn't have one by the time you are 18. Also, I'm pretty sure they accept Paypal as well so I'm finding it hard to feel any sympathy for you Seppli. It wasn't exactly a secret how they were going to handle all this even before the early access started.

I found a 60 day card for the equivalent of $23 by googling around a bit which isn't quite as bad. Maybe try shop around a bit more? You might find a bargain.

#48 Posted by Ravenlight (8040 posts) -

f@Mr_Skeleton said:

@Bocam said:

@Seppli:But EA doesn't care about Europe

That's only because Europe has no money right now.

#49 Posted by PenguinDust (12455 posts) -

Is is hard to get a credit card in Europe? I ask because they practically give them away in America (which is why we're 15 trillion dollars in debt). I remember when I was in college they had booths set up every weekend in the student lounge. These days barely a week goes by without me getting some offer for credit in the mail.

#50 Edited by lockwoodx (2479 posts) -

@Bocam: They don't let you start playing until you put in your billing info (which charges you instantly) or put in a pre-paid time card code. Either way you paid money to access your free time. I'm purposely waiting to put in my billing info until after the launch bullshit is over with a few months from now. Then I'll have my free time waiting for me.

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