@KingWilly: My hero.

@Anund said:

First, something about my background. My first MMO was Dark Age of Camelot (go Midgard/Percival!). I still remember the first time I logged in. It was a huge adventure, no one had any idea what lay around the next corner or really not even what to expect from an MMO. Sure, I bet some people had played some Everquest or Ultima Online, but there were no "MMO pros", or at least they were so few and far between they had no impact on the game.

Everyone, including myself, had to find our own way. The game forced grouping, more or less, levelling was painfully slow solo and even when resting health would recover very slowly. Soon everyone learned their roles in groups. Turns out I had chosen to be a tank and I ended up being fairly competent at it.

I remember my time starting out in DAoC very fondly. It all really was a big, huge adventure. Would it have been the same for me if, in my first group, people had been shouting at me to "cc the left add, dps the right one and tank the boss" while I had no clue wtf they were on about and then raging on me when I got it wrong? No. Probably not. Definitely not.

People have to be allowed to learn playing the game at their own pace. If you're the kind of person who spent 5 days a night raiding molten core or whatever dungeon was cool to be in in WoW (I could never find an attachment to that game) then please, don't pug. And if you do pug, don't bitch because people don't have your amazing buttonpressing skills.

I have a sore spot for elitists in MMOs. They truly are the scourge of MMOs, scaring away they new blood before they even have a chance to get started and making life a hell of a lot worse for everyone but themselves.

One final piece of advice: If you are interested in playing with slightly more mature people, in a more relaxed atmosphere, choose an RP server. There are only two conditions I will impose on you: choose a believable name and respect people who actually do RP. No one will require you participate, however.

Great post! Pretty much how I feel about MMOs.

I got into WoW when it came out, and only got to level 30 or something, with a couple of characters, and it was a huge adventure, unlike anything I'd ever seen. But eventually I went off to do other things and then a couple of years later, when I got back into wow, briefly, it felt really different. Everyone was either a "pro" or otherwise had no interest in maintaining the illusion of immersion. A dude I knew in real life couldn't understand why I didn't do end-game content, because that was the "entire point of the game" and all that leveling and exploration before it was a chore to him. I was coming off single player RPGs, where the leveling and exploration and lore and story were the point, not the e-sport-esque raiding and PvP.

I really want to have that feeling with SWTOR again, the one I had when I got into WoW when that came out. But it's very difficult, due to the general attitude people seem to have towards the game. I can see the threads. It's hard to feel like your character is special or find any fulfilment in leveling, when people expect you to look your optimal skill tree up on the internet and play the game "right".

I would love to play on an RP server, and I'd love to actually RP there too. But both EU servers are "full", so I ended up choosing a PvP server. Not because I enjoy PvP, mind, but because I felt it made more sense story-wise.

@CaptainCody said:

I credit people bad at MMOs as either:

1. Bad at videogames.

2. Lacking in the mental facilities.

When I first started WoW sure, I didn't know some things, but quickly became one of the better players till about a year later I was one of the best druids on my server. Then I quit, because the game has no content at this point. I credit that to me not being a retard and also not being terrible at videogames. Adapting is one of the key things when it comes to MMOs and when people can never grasp such a concept it just tells me that they are incredibly stupid and I have no interest in giving them a scapegoat argument as a means of valuing themselves. MMOs are DAYS of play time, if you can't get a hold of things after over 100 hours of game time ( significantly longer than most regular games) then I will credit you to being a plague on the game that, when in raids or instances, brings down the entire rest of the group. Call it elitism, but from someone with heaps of varying MMO experience I will absolutely hold everything against you.

Now, that does not imply I'm king douche to new players. I do my utter best to help out anyone new to the game when they first start playing and give them money and advice on their classes. If you are level capped, or have sunk in gratuitous amounts of time, you better know what the fuck you're doing, otherwise it just tells me you are roughly as incapable in real life.

It's not really this harsh, in reality.

You can think of an MMO like a sport (analogously speaking). A sport is just a game that is played professionally. Anyone can enjoy the game if they're taught the basic rules, but not everyone can, will, or desires to play that sport professionally. They just want to play the game. Getting to another level in a sport requires dedication, training, and/or a deeper understanding of the game in question. Smart players can deduce, usually from previous experience with MMO's, a relatively nominal way of playing their class in a new game because of a deeper understanding of how the basic game rules work, but people that have not taken the time to reach this level of understanding, or refuse to put the effort in to reach it, will usually press the buttons that feel like they're doing the most damage or look the coolest and pick talents that go with their style of button-pushing instead of min-maxing the desirable talents for their optimal rotation, and that usually gets them by for 100's of hours in most situations for content that isn't tightly mechanically tuned. Most 'modern' MMO's are designed with this dichotomy in mind in order to be profitable.

There are probably a lot of people who don't know why they should do what they're told to do on theorycrafting sites but just because they copy things doesn't mean they are always bad players. These players can be amazing at execution and awareness because they took the time to get some coaching and put in effort to learn technique in order to get experience and grow their skillset, all of which 'real baddies' don't bother with. For some it takes a while to learn, for some it comes naturally. You can't expect, or force, everyone to put in the effort to deeply understand mechanics in an MMO just as you can't turn just about anyone into a tennis star. It is not always as blunt as 'these people must have low IQ's or be 8 years old.'

The problem MMO's face, which is the crux of the 'issue', is that most sports don't pair under-9's little leaguers and backyard-cricketers up with seasoned national or world-class professionals, and these extremes in a video game played on the internet cause your above stigma to occur. This doesn't necessarily mean that little leaguers shouldn't be allowed to play baseball because they're not very good at it and they aren't suddenly a 'plague' on the MLB for existing.

Of course, being the internets, you do get a lot of little leaguers that think they're professionals, or that because they copied something off the internet it means they are the best around, or refuse to bring someone to a raid because 'the spec maths out to be the worst' even though they are doing 10k less dps on average than the potential math on their 'good' specs, but I hope you get what I'm getting at :P

@makari: I wish there was a "like" button for posts, so I wouldn't need to reply when I have nothing of value to add, but I found you made some good points, somewhat similar to what I was trying to get at.

@Fish_Face_McGee said:

This hasn't been endemic of my entire time playing SWTOR but just today I had two instances that I think warrant discussion. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think it's crazy to say that SWTOR is many people's first real MMO experience. Perhaps cut those people some slack when they ask dumb/noobie questions. Also, don't assume people know the terminology you're using. I was doing Hammer Station and two people got into a fight over Channeling, and I still don't even know what it means, just that both people fighting were sure the other person didn't know what it meant, either.

Just a thought.

I would cut them some slack, but then I took an arrow to the knee.

The Old Republic was released a good year too early and I truly feel sorry for anyone who considers this game a mmorpg let alone a polished AAA title. Star Wars nerds = free money for a few cheap tricks and light saber sounds. Now it's pure /popcorn as these new mmo players who are use to genuine Bioware titles have to put up with a piece of junk sewn together form the tatters of Mythic entertainment's rejects. Bioware only does the writing for SW:ToR, and they managed to screw that up too by recycling the hell out of the voice acting for common quests and one liners. I took a ton of shit warning my friends about this title and it feels so good to be right. Enjoy your train wreck guys.

@Buzzkill: That's crazy on how much on the subject you are, I hope this made you feel better. Would not want all this anger getting to hate, hate that lead to...etc, etc.

But back to the subject, like someone said earlier, some people still can be "newbie" even at level 50. With all the different way you can level up your character: by story, pvp, space combat and the list goes on. There's a lot of chance you miss some aspect of the game. You might never have done any Flashpoint or real challenging Heroic with pick up group. So this situation is more likely in this day and age than it was back then where everything needed a group and getting to level 20 was hour of grinding with said group doing the same step over and over.

So while I understand that it can be infuriating that at level 50 people mess up really bad, it's more likely to happen now that it was before.I always try to be helpful/use patience when people do a few mistake there and there because that's how I wish people would be when I do (no ones perfect and there's always something that you can learn or get better at, and there's always someone better than you as well). The best way would be to get with a guild of friend or good people who have patience toward newcomer who are still learning, that might help the enjoyment.

I've actively refused to group with strangers. I tried one random and within 20 min "r u really a girl?". Now I actively turn people down when they ask me to group and only do the 2+ group quest stuff by myself (or with my bum friends if they ever both to log in while I'm playing -_-). As far as I'm concerned, playing this game by yourself is "doing it right".

I have always found a bit ridiculous that someone expects you to play by an "optimal build" they found on the webz.... I think that is lazy , I want to bust my ass and learn by my own merit even if my character isnt the best ... I dont want to be the best by someone else´s merit but my own. Now I will not fault anyone who looks it up so they wont struggle in that search. The other thing is why bring Wow jargon if the game has its own only because some people emigrated? Screw that. Many a times the specialized jargon is only reducing long words into a bunch of letters , dont be lazy , type the damn thing!!!! Now you may think that I am very to proud to ask for advice , I do ask for advice when I dont know something , just not all the time :)

@Darklight said:

@Buzzkill: That's crazy on how much on the subject you are, I hope this made you feel better. Would not want all this anger getting to hate, hate that lead to...etc, etc.

The subject is about the truth and how we should hide it from gamers because this might be their first MMO. Sorry but I just stuck to the truth with my post. ;)

@makari said:

@CaptainCody said:

I credit people bad at MMOs as either:

1. Bad at videogames.

2. Lacking in the mental facilities.

When I first started WoW sure, I didn't know some things, but quickly became one of the better players till about a year later I was one of the best druids on my server. Then I quit, because the game has no content at this point. I credit that to me not being a retard and also not being terrible at videogames. Adapting is one of the key things when it comes to MMOs and when people can never grasp such a concept it just tells me that they are incredibly stupid and I have no interest in giving them a scapegoat argument as a means of valuing themselves. MMOs are DAYS of play time, if you can't get a hold of things after over 100 hours of game time ( significantly longer than most regular games) then I will credit you to being a plague on the game that, when in raids or instances, brings down the entire rest of the group. Call it elitism, but from someone with heaps of varying MMO experience I will absolutely hold everything against you.

Now, that does not imply I'm king douche to new players. I do my utter best to help out anyone new to the game when they first start playing and give them money and advice on their classes. If you are level capped, or have sunk in gratuitous amounts of time, you better know what the fuck you're doing, otherwise it just tells me you are roughly as incapable in real life.

It's not really this harsh, in reality.

You can think of an MMO like a sport (analogously speaking). A sport is just a game that is played professionally. Anyone can enjoy the game if they're taught the basic rules, but not everyone can, will, or desires to play that sport professionally. They just want to play the game. Getting to another level in a sport requires dedication, training, and/or a deeper understanding of the game in question. Smart players can deduce, usually from previous experience with MMO's, a relatively nominal way of playing their class in a new game because of a deeper understanding of how the basic game rules work, but people that have not taken the time to reach this level of understanding, or refuse to put the effort in to reach it, will usually press the buttons that feel like they're doing the most damage or look the coolest and pick talents that go with their style of button-pushing instead of min-maxing the desirable talents for their optimal rotation, and that usually gets them by for 100's of hours in most situations for content that isn't tightly mechanically tuned. Most 'modern' MMO's are designed with this dichotomy in mind in order to be profitable.

There are probably a lot of people who don't know why they should do what they're told to do on theorycrafting sites but just because they copy things doesn't mean they are always bad players. These players can be amazing at execution and awareness because they took the time to get some coaching and put in effort to learn technique in order to get experience and grow their skillset, all of which 'real baddies' don't bother with. For some it takes a while to learn, for some it comes naturally. You can't expect, or force, everyone to put in the effort to deeply understand mechanics in an MMO just as you can't turn just about anyone into a tennis star. It is not always as blunt as 'these people must have low IQ's or be 8 years old.'

The problem MMO's face, which is the crux of the 'issue', is that most sports don't pair under-9's little leaguers and backyard-cricketers up with seasoned national or world-class professionals, and these extremes in a video game played on the internet cause your above stigma to occur. This doesn't necessarily mean that little leaguers shouldn't be allowed to play baseball because they're not very good at it and they aren't suddenly a 'plague' on the MLB for existing.

Of course, being the internets, you do get a lot of little leaguers that think they're professionals, or that because they copied something off the internet it means they are the best around, or refuse to bring someone to a raid because 'the spec maths out to be the worst' even though they are doing 10k less dps on average than the potential math on their 'good' specs, but I hope you get what I'm getting at :P

You're implying a little too much. For starters, I never raided with little kids, I raided with adults, and many of them were still terrible. Also, I was pretty damn smart as a little kid, being young doesn't give you a free pass to retardville. Also, MMOs aren't that hard so relax there. If by master an MMO like a sport you mean spend five minutes learning your class appropriately then I can see the metaphor. I understand what you're trying to get at but MMOs really aren't that hard, otherwise I would actually give more slack to people struggling late game.

@demonknightinuyasha said:

I've actively refused to group with strangers. I tried one random and within 20 min "r u really a girl?". Now I actively turn people down when they ask me to group and only do the 2+ group quest stuff by myself (or with my bum friends if they ever both to log in while I'm playing -_-). As far as I'm concerned, playing this game by yourself is "doing it right".

Sounds like you're making it actively known you're a girl. You are more at fault here.

@Aetheldod said:

I have always found a bit ridiculous that someone expects you to play by an "optimal build" they found on the webz.... I think that is lazy , I want to bust my ass and learn by my own merit even if my character isnt the best ... I dont want to be the best by someone else´s merit but my own. Now I will not fault anyone who looks it up so they wont struggle in that search. The other thing is why bring Wow jargon if the game has its own only because some people emigrated? Screw that. Many a times the specialized jargon is only reducing long words into a bunch of letters , dont be lazy , type the damn thing!!!! Now you may think that I am very to proud to ask for advice , I do ask for advice when I dont know something , just not all the time :)

People use WoW jargon because SWTOR is a WoW clone.

@Buzzkill: This game will stop being relevant within 3 months, I'm surprised you're the only one who has said anything.

@KingWilly: Holy shit, do you even read your posts before you reply?

@Fish_Face_McGee: A great deal of the issues spoken of could be mitigated by lurking (and learning the terminology even SWTOR is going to have new jargon and learning old jargon is a must for entering any community) and diplomacy. If thou become the center of attention and jargon is flying, it's time to ask what it means either of the person making the points or a veteran friend. It takes time for assimilation to happen into another subculture and even with MMOs veteran players already recognize that new players may not know the terms. ξ

I wish long time MMO players would just stop being elitist pricks. Would make it so much better. I bet if some of those player jumped into MW3 or BF3 they would have a 10 year old tea-bagging them with in the first 20 seconds of a match.

@CaptainCody said:

I... quickly became one of the better players till about a year later I was one of the best druids on my server.

LOL!

I didn't know crap about Skyrim when I put the disc in, but by the time I reached the end game I was one of the best Skyrim players ever! You aren't good, you are practiced. If you have played an MMO before you understand some of the standard concepts like pulling, crowd control, and more advanced mechanics of the game, but its not different then from the first time you played warfcraft 2 till when starcraft came out. Or all those hours spent on coutner-strike translating into halo:reach. You just have a further understanding of the concept.

Now my personal experiences have jaded me in that I hate grouping... period! When you get into a 4 person lvl20 heroic group and the healer didn't know there was a second tab for class skills and by the point hasn't trained any of the heals is when I rage.

@pornstorestiffi said:

I wish long time MMO players would just stop being elitist pricks. Would make it so much better. I bet if some of those player jumped into MW3 or BF3 they would have a 10 year old tea-bagging them with in the first 20 seconds of a match.

Do you not see how stupid that comment is?

I wish MMO veterans weren't elitist, if they played a different type of game they would be made fun of by that type of games veterans.

DURRRR

@Huey2k2 said:

@pornstorestiffi said:

I wish long time MMO players would just stop being elitist pricks. Would make it so much better. I bet if some of those player jumped into MW3 or BF3 they would have a 10 year old tea-bagging them with in the first 20 seconds of a match.

Do you not see how stupid that comment is?

I wish MMO veterans weren't elitist, if they played a different type of game they would be made fun of by that type of games veterans.

DURRRR

Sorry but those 10 year olds would not have to be veterans to destroy those elitist dicks. Pit a fresh 10 year old against your typical MMO gamer in their first match ever, and i bet the young kid would still win, not being a veteran or having play the game before. Shooters just comes natural to them and its easy to learn when your exposed to those games.

That cant be said about MMO's, you need a time investment to learn the basics and the games various systems. Its not like its just aim and shoot.

And please stop using DURRR its stupid, internet lingo needs to die ASAP.

@pornstorestiffi said:

@Huey2k2 said:

@pornstorestiffi said:

I wish long time MMO players would just stop being elitist pricks. Would make it so much better. I bet if some of those player jumped into MW3 or BF3 they would have a 10 year old tea-bagging them with in the first 20 seconds of a match.

Do you not see how stupid that comment is?

I wish MMO veterans weren't elitist, if they played a different type of game they would be made fun of by that type of games veterans.

DURRRR

Sorry but those 10 year olds would not have to be veterans to destroy those elitist dicks. Pit a fresh 10 year old against your typical MMO gamer in their first match ever, and i bet the young kid would still win, not being a veteran or having play the game before. Shooters just comes natural to them and its easy to learn when your exposed to those games.

That cant be said about MMO's, you need a time investment to learn the basics and the games various systems. Its not like its just aim and shoot.

And please stop using DURRR its stupid, internet lingo needs to die ASAP.

Since when is tea-bagging natural behavior, and not internet lingo.

@Huey2k2 said:

@pornstorestiffi said:

I wish long time MMO players would just stop being elitist pricks. Would make it so much better. I bet if some of those player jumped into MW3 or BF3 they would have a 10 year old tea-bagging them with in the first 20 seconds of a match.

Do you not see how stupid that comment is?

I wish MMO veterans weren't elitist, if they played a different type of game they would be made fun of by that type of games veterans.

DURRRR

Sorry but those 10 year olds would not have to be veterans to destroy those elitist dicks. Pit a fresh 10 year old against your typical MMO gamer in their first match ever, and i bet the young kid would still win, not being a veteran or having play the game before. Shooters just comes natural to them and its easy to learn when your exposed to those games.

That cant be said about MMO's, you need a time investment to learn the basics and the games various systems. Its not like its just aim and shoot.

And please stop using DURRR its stupid, internet lingo needs to die ASAP.

@Procyon27 said:

@CaptainCody: [Post deleted]

Learn to read toddler, go back to IGN or some shit, we have enough new retarded users and I'm done wasting time on ones like you.

@pigmartyr said:

@CaptainCody said:

I... quickly became one of the better players till about a year later I was one of the best druids on my server.

LOL!

I didn't know crap about Skyrim when I put the disc in, but by the time I reached the end game I was one of the best Skyrim players ever! You aren't good, you are practiced. If you have played an MMO before you understand some of the standard concepts like pulling, crowd control, and more advanced mechanics of the game, but its not different then from the first time you played warfcraft 2 till when starcraft came out. Or all those hours spent on coutner-strike translating into halo:reach. You just have a further understanding of the concept.

Now my personal experiences have jaded me in that I hate grouping... period! When you get into a 4 person lvl20 heroic group and the healer didn't know there was a second tab for class skills and by the point hasn't trained any of the heals is when I rage.

Guy, what the fuck are you even talking about. I'm pretty sure me being one of the top 5 geared druids and in one of the best guilds on my server implied I was good. Also, WoW was my first MMO of its kind, so feel free to elaborate on your awful similes. Lastly, please refer to the last 5 paragraphs I have written on this shit in this thread before you jump the gun.

I'm just gonna ask this here because you guys seem to know a lot. Is a Gaurdian class JK viable as a tank? The SWTOR forums are a flame war on this topic and I was gonna roll a Gaurdian Tank. Not so sure now though. Any help would be great.

@CaptainCody said:

Guy, what the fuck are you even talking about. I'm pretty sure me being one of the top 5 geared druids and in one of the best guilds on my server implied I was good. Also, WoW was my first MMO of its kind, so feel free to elaborate on your awful similes. Lastly, please refer to the last 5 paragraphs I have written on this shit in this thread before you jump the gun.

Dude, give it a rest already. Proving you're good at a game that only requires time investment and practice, in a thread about *not* being a total elitist prick, further degrades whatever you had in mind to argue in the first place. I know a DEAF guy who did Heroic Rag, pre-nerf, your argument is invalid etc etc if that will shut your fucking mouth.

@MB Can we get this thread locked, please? It's turned into a mindless bickering match between CaptainCody, Asshole Incarnate and all of us fighting his stupid pointless "better than thou" replies.

@Kidavenger said:

@pornstorestiffi said:

@Huey2k2 said:

@pornstorestiffi said:

I wish long time MMO players would just stop being elitist pricks. Would make it so much better. I bet if some of those player jumped into MW3 or BF3 they would have a 10 year old tea-bagging them with in the first 20 seconds of a match.

Do you not see how stupid that comment is?

I wish MMO veterans weren't elitist, if they played a different type of game they would be made fun of by that type of games veterans.

DURRRR

Sorry but those 10 year olds would not have to be veterans to destroy those elitist dicks. Pit a fresh 10 year old against your typical MMO gamer in their first match ever, and i bet the young kid would still win, not being a veteran or having play the game before. Shooters just comes natural to them and its easy to learn when your exposed to those games.

That cant be said about MMO's, you need a time investment to learn the basics and the games various systems. Its not like its just aim and shoot.

And please stop using DURRR its stupid, internet lingo needs to die ASAP.

Since when is tea-bagging natural behavior, and not internet lingo.

Since when is tea-bagging not natural behavior (did i even claim it to be natural behaviour? dont think so), have you played online before? i have been tea-bagged so many times i lost count years ago. But what else would i call it? i kind of have to use the tearm as there is no other.

And i kind of use it to make my point come through, but it didn't help my case at all. So how about i just shut the fuck up now, and lets just say your right and im totally wrong. That would probably work out for the best right.

@Brodehouse said:

@pornstorestiffi

@Huey2k2 said:

@pornstorestiffi said:

I wish long time MMO players would just stop being elitist pricks. Would make it so much better. I bet if some of those player jumped into MW3 or BF3 they would have a 10 year old tea-bagging them with in the first 20 seconds of a match.

Do you not see how stupid that comment is?

I wish MMO veterans weren't elitist, if they played a different type of game they would be made fun of by that type of games veterans.

DURRRR

Sorry but those 10 year olds would not have to be veterans to destroy those elitist dicks. Pit a fresh 10 year old against your typical MMO gamer in their first match ever, and i bet the young kid would still win, not being a veteran or having play the game before. Shooters just comes natural to them and its easy to learn when your exposed to those games.

That cant be said about MMO's, you need a time investment to learn the basics and the games various systems. Its not like its just aim and shoot.

And please stop using DURRR its stupid, internet lingo needs to die ASAP.

You are completely missing the point. It doesn't matter if FPS elitists are better at FPS games than MMO elitists. The point is its stupid to be elitist about anything, not that "kids are good at shooters!" which isn't true or relevant anyways. Your argument is counter-intuitive and is arguing in favor of the antisocial behavior of MMO elitists.

Once again i never said they would have to be FPS elitists. And yes its stupid to be elitist im not saying its awesome. And maybe the thing about the kids is a bit wrong to use in this case, but when i think MMO games i think above 25 gamers, adults. People who play a MMO and does nothing else, cause how else would they become so knowledgeable about such a huge game. Thats where the kid part came in, cause kids have grown up with all these genres, but most kids won't use their time on MMO's, attention span is fucked. But naturally are good at most games, or so i find at least.

Anyhow i can be fucked explaining my thought process on this as its clearly too weird, and i need to play more SWTOR instead of doing this.

@devilzrule27 said:

I enjoy running around not having a clue as to what I am doing. Then again I don't play PvP or group with any people I don't know. Of course the people I group with also have no idea what they are doing but we still have a blast.

I find this tends to be the most optimal way to play any MMO or MMO-like game.

@Kidavenger said:

@pornstorestiffi said:

@Huey2k2 said:

@pornstorestiffi said:

I wish long time MMO players would just stop being elitist pricks. Would make it so much better. I bet if some of those player jumped into MW3 or BF3 they would have a 10 year old tea-bagging them with in the first 20 seconds of a match.

Do you not see how stupid that comment is?

I wish MMO veterans weren't elitist, if they played a different type of game they would be made fun of by that type of games veterans.

DURRRR

Sorry but those 10 year olds would not have to be veterans to destroy those elitist dicks. Pit a fresh 10 year old against your typical MMO gamer in their first match ever, and i bet the young kid would still win, not being a veteran or having play the game before. Shooters just comes natural to them and its easy to learn when your exposed to those games.

That cant be said about MMO's, you need a time investment to learn the basics and the games various systems. Its not like its just aim and shoot.

And please stop using DURRR its stupid, internet lingo needs to die ASAP.

Since when is tea-bagging natural behavior, and not internet lingo.

Since college frat parties existed.

@pornstorestiffi: Since situational awareness and reaction times are the most important skills in both MMO raiding enviroments and in competetive FPS, I don't really see your point.

@crazyleaves: I can't speak for endgame, but as a mirror classed Sith Juggernaut I can say that during my trip to 46 I have felt sufficiently tanky. Juggernauts (Guardians) are more avoidance based whereas Powertechs (Vanguards) are more mitigation based. Powertechs have better tools for tanking groups of mobs whereas Juggernauts excel at tanking single mobs. Powertechs probably are going to edge out Juggernauts in overall usability, but the disparity doesn't seem significant. Also keep in mind that it is in Bioware's best interest to keep all the classes competitive which means if Juggernauts are truly deficient, there will be a buff coming some time soon.

@CaptainCody said:

Also, WoW was my first MMO

I love how you started this topic as you being an MMO veteran and then come back to say that wow was your first MMO. Why dont you use all your DKP to buy yourself a clue.

@CaptainCody: Dude, no offense because at first I could kind of see where you were coming from, but now you're starting to sound like the epitome of an 'elitist jerk.' Oh, and trust me, bragging about being the BEST DRUID ON MY SERVER GUYS....glavin! is rather pathetic- even on a video game forum. In all honesty, you sound like a socially maladjusted shut-in who's trying desperately to validate his own existence by acting like a 'professional'. If you really are the best druid on your server, that is actually rather sad, it's a waste of a life. MMOs, whilst fun and superficially validating to begin with, should never be taken as seriously as you obviously take them because, ultimately, they're just a time sink. Now leave the normal folks alone to enjoy the game the way they want to enjoy it- it's their money not yours after all. I doubt any of what I've said will sink in so feel free to educate me since you're obviously so very intelligent. One has to wonder if your so very much on the ball, why aren't you off studying at an ivy league university or doing something that actually benefits people instead of wasting your time throwing your weight around on a gaming website?

You sir may be one of the most delusional, self-aggrandizing, individuals I've ever come across on the internet. STOP acting like you somehow know better than everybody else and seek help...

@Ertard said:

@pornstorestiffi: Since situational awareness and reaction times are the most important skills in both MMO raiding enviroments and in competetive FPS, I don't really see your point.

If it's any consolation, myself along with all of my friends who I raided with maintain 2.00 K/Ds on Call of Duty if that means anything. I have never met anyone good at video games who is only good at one type of them.

@pigmartyr said:

@CaptainCody said:

Also, WoW was my first MMO

I love how you started this topic as you being an MMO veteran and then come back to say that wow was your first MMO. Why dont you use all your DKP to buy yourself a clue.

First MMO of that kind sport, if you want to delve into random korean shit and Runescape then I have been around the block, we're talking about a WoW clone here not something original so bringing up the game that it corresponds to makes sense doesn't it? Lastly, the DKP system is shit. Furthermore, I recommend actually quoting an entire sentence, rather than trying to be a dirty prick.

@Moreau_MD said:

@CaptainCody: Dude, no offense because at first I could kind of see where you were coming from, but now you're starting to sound like the epitome of an 'elitist jerk.' Oh, and trust me, bragging about being the BEST DRUID ON MY SERVER GUYS....glavin! is rather pathetic- even on a video game forum. In all honesty, you sound like a socially maladjusted shut-in who's trying desperately to validate his own existence by acting like a 'professional'. If you really are the best druid on your server, that is actually rather sad, it's a waste of a life. MMOs, whilst fun and superficially validating to begin with, should never be taken as seriously as you obviously take them because, ultimately, they're just a time sink. Now leave the normal folks alone to enjoy the game the way they want to enjoy it- it's their money not yours after all. I doubt any of what I've said will sink in so feel free to educate me since you're obviously so very intelligent. One has to wonder if your so very much on the ball, why aren't you off studying at an ivy league university or doing something that actually benefits people instead of wasting your time throwing your weight around on a gaming website?

You sir may be one of the most delusional, self-aggrandizing, individuals I've ever come across on the internet. STOP acting like you somehow know better than everybody else and seek help...

I responded in such a way because when idiots (like yourself) decide to bump dead threads and pander to me by berating random insults without actually forming a coherent point or acknowledging anything I have previously aforementioned. I'm not even sure if I should really dignify a response to someone so easily agitated over the internet they need to take up the role of telling people how to live. I suppose you can just flip back and read over the thread, but to give you a little closure; I am not bragging, simply making a point so that I can have some weight to my words and people can get a better understanding of it through someone with experience. Or, do you tell a doctor to stop bragging when they tell you they have a PhD in a school?

The levels of dickishness I've found in the General chat has driven me insane many times. Maybe it's because I just came off of Dungeons & Dragons Online where you literally NEVER hear shit like that said at all and everyone is incredibly friendly and helpful...

Nonetheless, it's definitely a bummer to see people being jerks. However, it's part of the mainstream MMO world. There's not really anything that can be done except that /ignore option and finding people that are rad and awesome.

@CaptainCody said:

When I first started WoW sure, I didn't know some things, but quickly became one of the better players till about a year later I was one of the best druids on my server.

What was your character name and server?

*insert character name and server here*

Oh, never heard of you...

I was one of the best tank warriors on my server before I quit during Lich King. Finlee on the Sargeras server. Heard of me? NOPE! So, please...drop that "best player on the server" bullshit.

I've already sunk some 50 hours into The Old Republic, and I just yesterday learned what Alacrity and Surge rating do, as well as how Shields work on my tank. That information is not as readily available on the internet as it should be because the game is still fairly new.

Also, just because you sink 100 hours into it, that doesn't necessarily mean you know every intricate little thing. You have to talk about a lot of different factors in the long and short of it. For instance, is the person that is playing treating the game like it's their second fucking job or are they there for entertainment value and something to kill time with? If it's the former, then congrats on being the elitest that acts like your shit don't stink because you dedicate more time than someone else. Some people don't have that kind of time, and while I've heard the argument "if you don't have the time, don't play" levied dozens of times, I think it's a stupid and bullshit excuse made by people that refuse to realize that an MMO is still a game, not a lifestyle.

That's just one of plenty in different scenarios and instances you have to look at. It's NOT just as simple as "they are bad at video games or they are mentally challenged". That's an incredibly narrow-minded ideal to hold, especially in a game that should be about community. Again, having just come from Dungeons & Dragons Online, which has a fair population on all their servers, it's one of the rare games where I've NEVER found someone who was unwilling to help someone understand, rude and assholish, or just downright ignored you. Hell, they even have a separate goddamn chat channel called /ADVICE! What OTHER MMO does that?

If anything, the general "community" of mainstream MMO players seems to typically be filled with elitests that try to wear these pins of "oh, I've played all these different MMOs, blah blah blah" on their chests like it goddamn means something. You know what? I played Dark Ages of Camelot, DDO, LOTRO, Aion, Conan, Requiem, Guild Wars, WoW, Warhammer Online, Rift, and TOR...and that doesn't make me a fucking pro at MMOs, even going into TOR. There is still shit I have to learn: what is my tanking rotation at a Juggernaut, what are the skills I need to focus on ranking up, what professions should I take to complement my class, what types of classes am I weak against in PvP, what do all these different stats mean and which ones should I focus on...

So no, it's not as clear cut as you'd like it to be. That's too convenient of an excuse for you to try and use. Deal with the fact that new people will play MMOs, and they may always be like new people because of multiple different reasons than the two you try to number out and use as your excuse. If you don't want to help people, even in their 100th hour, then don't. However, when your raid wipes because you didn't help that person, remember that the blame isn't solely on their back.

@CaptainCody said:

@Ertard said:

@pornstorestiffi: Since situational awareness and reaction times are the most important skills in both MMO raiding enviroments and in competetive FPS, I don't really see your point.

If it's any consolation, myself along with all of my friends who I raided with maintain 2.00 K/Ds on Call of Duty if that means anything. I have never met anyone good at video games who is only good at one type of them.

@pigmartyr said:

@CaptainCody said:

Also, WoW was my first MMO

I love how you started this topic as you being an MMO veteran and then come back to say that wow was your first MMO. Why dont you use all your DKP to buy yourself a clue.

First MMO of that kind sport, if you want to delve into random korean shit and Runescape then I have been around the block, we're talking about a WoW clone here not something original so bringing up the game that it corresponds to makes sense doesn't it? Lastly, the DKP system is shit. Furthermore, I recommend actually quoting an entire sentence, rather than trying to be a dirty prick.

@Moreau_MD said:

@CaptainCody: Dude, no offense because at first I could kind of see where you were coming from, but now you're starting to sound like the epitome of an 'elitist jerk.' Oh, and trust me, bragging about being the BEST DRUID ON MY SERVER GUYS....glavin! is rather pathetic- even on a video game forum. In all honesty, you sound like a socially maladjusted shut-in who's trying desperately to validate his own existence by acting like a 'professional'. If you really are the best druid on your server, that is actually rather sad, it's a waste of a life. MMOs, whilst fun and superficially validating to begin with, should never be taken as seriously as you obviously take them because, ultimately, they're just a time sink. Now leave the normal folks alone to enjoy the game the way they want to enjoy it- it's their money not yours after all. I doubt any of what I've said will sink in so feel free to educate me since you're obviously so very intelligent. One has to wonder if your so very much on the ball, why aren't you off studying at an ivy league university or doing something that actually benefits people instead of wasting your time throwing your weight around on a gaming website?

You sir may be one of the most delusional, self-aggrandizing, individuals I've ever come across on the internet. STOP acting like you somehow know better than everybody else and seek help...

I responded in such a way because when idiots (like yourself) decide to bump dead threads and pander to me by berating random insults without actually forming a coherent point or acknowledging anything I have previously aforementioned. I'm not even sure if I should really dignify a response to someone so easily agitated over the internet they need to take up the role of telling people how to live. I suppose you can just flip back and read over the thread, but to give you a little closure; I am not bragging, simply making a point so that I can have some weight to my words and people can get a better understanding of it through someone with experience. Or, do you tell a doctor to stop bragging when they tell you they have a PhD in a school?

Wait...oh woah...wait. Did you just equate the fact that you're 'the bestest' on some random server in WOW to having spent years studying for a PhD to become a doctor?!? MUHAHHAHAH...seriously dude, GET OVER YOURSELF! You are no more informed than any other average Joe who's plugged some time into an MMO. Call me when Harvard start offering MAs in CC and DPS, k thnx bye.

@Moreau_MD said:

@CaptainCody said:

@Ertard said:

@pornstorestiffi: Since situational awareness and reaction times are the most important skills in both MMO raiding enviroments and in competetive FPS, I don't really see your point.

If it's any consolation, myself along with all of my friends who I raided with maintain 2.00 K/Ds on Call of Duty if that means anything. I have never met anyone good at video games who is only good at one type of them.

@pigmartyr said:

@CaptainCody said:

Also, WoW was my first MMO

I love how you started this topic as you being an MMO veteran and then come back to say that wow was your first MMO. Why dont you use all your DKP to buy yourself a clue.

First MMO of that kind sport, if you want to delve into random korean shit and Runescape then I have been around the block, we're talking about a WoW clone here not something original so bringing up the game that it corresponds to makes sense doesn't it? Lastly, the DKP system is shit. Furthermore, I recommend actually quoting an entire sentence, rather than trying to be a dirty prick.

@Moreau_MD said:

@CaptainCody: Dude, no offense because at first I could kind of see where you were coming from, but now you're starting to sound like the epitome of an 'elitist jerk.' Oh, and trust me, bragging about being the BEST DRUID ON MY SERVER GUYS....glavin! is rather pathetic- even on a video game forum. In all honesty, you sound like a socially maladjusted shut-in who's trying desperately to validate his own existence by acting like a 'professional'. If you really are the best druid on your server, that is actually rather sad, it's a waste of a life. MMOs, whilst fun and superficially validating to begin with, should never be taken as seriously as you obviously take them because, ultimately, they're just a time sink. Now leave the normal folks alone to enjoy the game the way they want to enjoy it- it's their money not yours after all. I doubt any of what I've said will sink in so feel free to educate me since you're obviously so very intelligent. One has to wonder if your so very much on the ball, why aren't you off studying at an ivy league university or doing something that actually benefits people instead of wasting your time throwing your weight around on a gaming website?

You sir may be one of the most delusional, self-aggrandizing, individuals I've ever come across on the internet. STOP acting like you somehow know better than everybody else and seek help...

I responded in such a way because when idiots (like yourself) decide to bump dead threads and pander to me by berating random insults without actually forming a coherent point or acknowledging anything I have previously aforementioned. I'm not even sure if I should really dignify a response to someone so easily agitated over the internet they need to take up the role of telling people how to live. I suppose you can just flip back and read over the thread, but to give you a little closure; I am not bragging, simply making a point so that I can have some weight to my words and people can get a better understanding of it through someone with experience. Or, do you tell a doctor to stop bragging when they tell you they have a PhD in a school?

Wait...oh woah...wait. Did you just equate the fact that you're 'the bestest' on some random server in WOW to having spent years studying for a PhD to become a doctor?!? MUHAHHAHAH...seriously dude, GET OVER YOURSELF! You are no more informed than any other average Joe who's plugged some time into an MMO. Call me when Harvard start offering MAs in CC and DPS, k thnx bye.

Enjoy the post flags. You clearly have proven my points, I see no need to waste my time any further.

@CaptainCody said:

@Moreau_MD said:

@CaptainCody said:

@Ertard said:

@pornstorestiffi: Since situational awareness and reaction times are the most important skills in both MMO raiding enviroments and in competetive FPS, I don't really see your point.

If it's any consolation, myself along with all of my friends who I raided with maintain 2.00 K/Ds on Call of Duty if that means anything. I have never met anyone good at video games who is only good at one type of them.

@pigmartyr said:

@CaptainCody said:

Also, WoW was my first MMO

I love how you started this topic as you being an MMO veteran and then come back to say that wow was your first MMO. Why dont you use all your DKP to buy yourself a clue.

First MMO of that kind sport, if you want to delve into random korean shit and Runescape then I have been around the block, we're talking about a WoW clone here not something original so bringing up the game that it corresponds to makes sense doesn't it? Lastly, the DKP system is shit. Furthermore, I recommend actually quoting an entire sentence, rather than trying to be a dirty prick.

@Moreau_MD said:

@CaptainCody: Dude, no offense because at first I could kind of see where you were coming from, but now you're starting to sound like the epitome of an 'elitist jerk.' Oh, and trust me, bragging about being the BEST DRUID ON MY SERVER GUYS....glavin! is rather pathetic- even on a video game forum. In all honesty, you sound like a socially maladjusted shut-in who's trying desperately to validate his own existence by acting like a 'professional'. If you really are the best druid on your server, that is actually rather sad, it's a waste of a life. MMOs, whilst fun and superficially validating to begin with, should never be taken as seriously as you obviously take them because, ultimately, they're just a time sink. Now leave the normal folks alone to enjoy the game the way they want to enjoy it- it's their money not yours after all. I doubt any of what I've said will sink in so feel free to educate me since you're obviously so very intelligent. One has to wonder if your so very much on the ball, why aren't you off studying at an ivy league university or doing something that actually benefits people instead of wasting your time throwing your weight around on a gaming website?

You sir may be one of the most delusional, self-aggrandizing, individuals I've ever come across on the internet. STOP acting like you somehow know better than everybody else and seek help...

I responded in such a way because when idiots (like yourself) decide to bump dead threads and pander to me by berating random insults without actually forming a coherent point or acknowledging anything I have previously aforementioned. I'm not even sure if I should really dignify a response to someone so easily agitated over the internet they need to take up the role of telling people how to live. I suppose you can just flip back and read over the thread, but to give you a little closure; I am not bragging, simply making a point so that I can have some weight to my words and people can get a better understanding of it through someone with experience. Or, do you tell a doctor to stop bragging when they tell you they have a PhD in a school?

Wait...oh woah...wait. Did you just equate the fact that you're 'the bestest' on some random server in WOW to having spent years studying for a PhD to become a doctor?!? MUHAHHAHAH...seriously dude, GET OVER YOURSELF! You are no more informed than any other average Joe who's plugged some time into an MMO. Call me when Harvard start offering MAs in CC and DPS, k thnx bye.

Enjoy the post flags. You clearly have proven my points, I see no need to waste my time any further.

Flagged and yet nothing comes of it. Think you're clearly the one who continues to prove my point mate. Why don't you do us all a favor and quit while you're behind kay? This thread has veered vastly off topic enough as it is because you keep trying to defend your inherently shitty behavior against a growing number of GB members. Leave it. Lock it.

@Moreau_MD said:

@CaptainCody said:

@Moreau_MD said:

@CaptainCody said:

@Ertard said:

@pornstorestiffi: Since situational awareness and reaction times are the most important skills in both MMO raiding enviroments and in competetive FPS, I don't really see your point.

If it's any consolation, myself along with all of my friends who I raided with maintain 2.00 K/Ds on Call of Duty if that means anything. I have never met anyone good at video games who is only good at one type of them.

@pigmartyr said:

@CaptainCody said:

Also, WoW was my first MMO

I love how you started this topic as you being an MMO veteran and then come back to say that wow was your first MMO. Why dont you use all your DKP to buy yourself a clue.

First MMO of that kind sport, if you want to delve into random korean shit and Runescape then I have been around the block, we're talking about a WoW clone here not something original so bringing up the game that it corresponds to makes sense doesn't it? Lastly, the DKP system is shit. Furthermore, I recommend actually quoting an entire sentence, rather than trying to be a dirty prick.

@Moreau_MD said:

@CaptainCody: Dude, no offense because at first I could kind of see where you were coming from, but now you're starting to sound like the epitome of an 'elitist jerk.' Oh, and trust me, bragging about being the BEST DRUID ON MY SERVER GUYS....glavin! is rather pathetic- even on a video game forum. In all honesty, you sound like a socially maladjusted shut-in who's trying desperately to validate his own existence by acting like a 'professional'. If you really are the best druid on your server, that is actually rather sad, it's a waste of a life. MMOs, whilst fun and superficially validating to begin with, should never be taken as seriously as you obviously take them because, ultimately, they're just a time sink. Now leave the normal folks alone to enjoy the game the way they want to enjoy it- it's their money not yours after all. I doubt any of what I've said will sink in so feel free to educate me since you're obviously so very intelligent. One has to wonder if your so very much on the ball, why aren't you off studying at an ivy league university or doing something that actually benefits people instead of wasting your time throwing your weight around on a gaming website?

You sir may be one of the most delusional, self-aggrandizing, individuals I've ever come across on the internet. STOP acting like you somehow know better than everybody else and seek help...

I responded in such a way because when idiots (like yourself) decide to bump dead threads and pander to me by berating random insults without actually forming a coherent point or acknowledging anything I have previously aforementioned. I'm not even sure if I should really dignify a response to someone so easily agitated over the internet they need to take up the role of telling people how to live. I suppose you can just flip back and read over the thread, but to give you a little closure; I am not bragging, simply making a point so that I can have some weight to my words and people can get a better understanding of it through someone with experience. Or, do you tell a doctor to stop bragging when they tell you they have a PhD in a school?

Wait...oh woah...wait. Did you just equate the fact that you're 'the bestest' on some random server in WOW to having spent years studying for a PhD to become a doctor?!? MUHAHHAHAH...seriously dude, GET OVER YOURSELF! You are no more informed than any other average Joe who's plugged some time into an MMO. Call me when Harvard start offering MAs in CC and DPS, k thnx bye.

Enjoy the post flags. You clearly have proven my points, I see no need to waste my time any further.

Flagged and yet nothing comes of it. Think you're clearly the one who continues to prove my point mate. Why don't you do us all a favor and quit while you're behind kay? This thread has veered vastly off topic enough as it is because you keep trying to defend your inherently shitty behavior against a growing number of GB members. Leave it. Lock it.

Ironically, you are the one who bumped an old thread because you chose to assume a personal vendetta against me rather than taking it to a PM. Grow up, toddler. If you want to cry about how stupid you are take it to a PM with me. Lastly, people like yourself and the other shitposting randoms aren't, "GB members." they're just another flock of new users who make half-assed posts and don't abide to the rules.

@CaptainCody said:

I credit people bad at MMOs as either:

1. Bad at videogames.

2. Lacking in the mental facilities.

When I first started WoW sure, I didn't know some things, but quickly became one of the better players till about a year later I was one of the best druids on my server. Then I quit, because the game has no content at this point. I credit that to me not being a retard and also not being terrible at videogames. Adapting is one of the key things when it comes to MMOs and when people can never grasp such a concept it just tells me that they are incredibly stupid and I have no interest in giving them a scapegoat argument as a means of valuing themselves. MMOs are DAYS of play time, if you can't get a hold of things after over 100 hours of game time ( significantly longer than most regular games) then I will credit you to being a plague on the game that, when in raids or instances, brings down the entire rest of the group. Call it elitism, but from someone with heaps of varying MMO experience I will absolutely hold everything against you.

Now, that does not imply I'm king douche to new players. I do my utter best to help out anyone new to the game when they first start playing and give them money and advice on their classes. If you are level capped, or have sunk in gratuitous amounts of time, you better know what the fuck you're doing, otherwise it just tells me you are roughly as incapable in real life.

How did you manage to find the time to write this post in between masturbating at your own reflection?

Personally, when I meet someone who isn't familiar with all the out-there WoW terminology, I think to myself, 'Thank god, someone who isn't a total fucking loser'

@CaptainCody said:

@Moreau_MD said:

@CaptainCody said:

@Moreau_MD said:

@CaptainCody said:

@Ertard said:

@pornstorestiffi: Since situational awareness and reaction times are the most important skills in both MMO raiding enviroments and in competetive FPS, I don't really see your point.

If it's any consolation, myself along with all of my friends who I raided with maintain 2.00 K/Ds on Call of Duty if that means anything. I have never met anyone good at video games who is only good at one type of them.

@pigmartyr said:

@CaptainCody said:

Also, WoW was my first MMO

I love how you started this topic as you being an MMO veteran and then come back to say that wow was your first MMO. Why dont you use all your DKP to buy yourself a clue.

First MMO of that kind sport, if you want to delve into random korean shit and Runescape then I have been around the block, we're talking about a WoW clone here not something original so bringing up the game that it corresponds to makes sense doesn't it? Lastly, the DKP system is shit. Furthermore, I recommend actually quoting an entire sentence, rather than trying to be a dirty prick.

@Moreau_MD said:

@CaptainCody: Dude, no offense because at first I could kind of see where you were coming from, but now you're starting to sound like the epitome of an 'elitist jerk.' Oh, and trust me, bragging about being the BEST DRUID ON MY SERVER GUYS....glavin! is rather pathetic- even on a video game forum. In all honesty, you sound like a socially maladjusted shut-in who's trying desperately to validate his own existence by acting like a 'professional'. If you really are the best druid on your server, that is actually rather sad, it's a waste of a life. MMOs, whilst fun and superficially validating to begin with, should never be taken as seriously as you obviously take them because, ultimately, they're just a time sink. Now leave the normal folks alone to enjoy the game the way they want to enjoy it- it's their money not yours after all. I doubt any of what I've said will sink in so feel free to educate me since you're obviously so very intelligent. One has to wonder if your so very much on the ball, why aren't you off studying at an ivy league university or doing something that actually benefits people instead of wasting your time throwing your weight around on a gaming website?

You sir may be one of the most delusional, self-aggrandizing, individuals I've ever come across on the internet. STOP acting like you somehow know better than everybody else and seek help...

I responded in such a way because when idiots (like yourself) decide to bump dead threads and pander to me by berating random insults without actually forming a coherent point or acknowledging anything I have previously aforementioned. I'm not even sure if I should really dignify a response to someone so easily agitated over the internet they need to take up the role of telling people how to live. I suppose you can just flip back and read over the thread, but to give you a little closure; I am not bragging, simply making a point so that I can have some weight to my words and people can get a better understanding of it through someone with experience. Or, do you tell a doctor to stop bragging when they tell you they have a PhD in a school?

Wait...oh woah...wait. Did you just equate the fact that you're 'the bestest' on some random server in WOW to having spent years studying for a PhD to become a doctor?!? MUHAHHAHAH...seriously dude, GET OVER YOURSELF! You are no more informed than any other average Joe who's plugged some time into an MMO. Call me when Harvard start offering MAs in CC and DPS, k thnx bye.

Enjoy the post flags. You clearly have proven my points, I see no need to waste my time any further.

Flagged and yet nothing comes of it. Think you're clearly the one who continues to prove my point mate. Why don't you do us all a favor and quit while you're behind kay? This thread has veered vastly off topic enough as it is because you keep trying to defend your inherently shitty behavior against a growing number of GB members. Leave it. Lock it.

Ironically, you are the one who bumped an old thread because you chose to assume a personal vendetta against me rather than taking it to a PM. Grow up, toddler. If you want to cry about how stupid you are take it to a PM with me. Lastly, people like yourself and the other shitposting randoms aren't, "GB members." they're just another flock of new users who make half-assed posts and don't abide to the rules.

Mate, seriously, let it go. You're clearly the one in the wrong here as basically everyone on this topic is calling you out as an asshole- you are, accept it and move on. You're clearly the one who's a toddler as you constantly keep coming back for more- trying to be the one to get the last word in. So you know what? I'm leaving it here. I'm done. Whatever you may say after this, I'm just not responding to it. If the fact that everyone who's read what you've written thinks you're a total loser and the fact that the moderators clearly don't give a shit about your 'flagging' me can't sway you, then nothing can. You are a sad, sad individual.

Okay, this thread has devolved into a meaningless back-and-forth argument and has had way too many personal attacks in it for my liking. Locked.