1.4 PTR patch notes - BFH get their nerf

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#1 Edited by onimonkii (2421 posts) -
Balance

  • General
    • Unit vision up ramps has been reduced by 1.


  • PROTOSS

    • Immortal
      • Attack range increased from 5 to 6.

    • Mothership
      • Acceleration increased from 0.3 to 1.375.
      • The Mothership’s Cloaking Field no longer cloaks all units instantaneously, but rather adds units to the cloak field over time (maximum of 25 per second). This should alleviate “Mothership Lag” issue when a Mothership comes online.

    • Stalker
      • Blink research time increased from 110 to 140.

    • Warp Prism
      • Shields increased from 40 to 100.


  • TERRAN

    • Barracks
      • Build time increased from 60 to 65.

    • Hellion
      • Infernal Pre-Igniter damage upgrade decreased from 10 to 5.

    • Raven
      • Seeker missile movement speed increased from 2.5 to 2.953.


  • ZERG

    • Infestor
      • Fungal Growth damage changed from 36 (+30% armored) to 30 (40 vs Armored).

    • Overseer
      • Morph cost decreased from 50/100 to 50/50.
      • Contaminate energy cost increased from 75 to 125.

    • Ultralisk
      • Build time decreased from 70 to 55.
 

Bug Fixes 
 
  • Protoss


    • Issuing new orders to charging zealots will cause them to lose the charge buff.

    • Sentry Guardian Shield now correctly reduces damage from Hellion, Void ray, and Colossus attacks as well as the Siege Tank’s sieged attack.

    • Fixed an issue where Colossus thermal lance beams would track a unit much further than the range of the weapon.

    • Fixed an issue where workers would not path around Force Field while harvesting.

    • Fixed an animation bug that would occur when Graviton Beam was used on unburrowing Zerg units.


  • Terran


    • The Command Center Load SCV command will now only ask to load as many SCVs as it can contain.

    • SCVs will now always face the building when resuming construction.

    • SCVs can no longer repair themselves while inside a Bunker or Medivac.

    • Fixed an issue where the Reaper could get stuck in some cases.


  • Zerg

    • Overseer & Brood Lord cocoons can now display waypoint lines when issuing queued patrol orders.

    • Baneling's Attack Structure ability is now a toggle to Enable/Disable Attack Structure. The toggle will determine whether structures are valid targets for auto-attack. This change fixes an issue which caused Banelings to prioritize buildings over hostile units.

    • Burrowed units are no longer cloaked by the Mothership, as this is redundant.

    • Attack upgrades are now retained by units controlled by Neural Parasite.

    • If a unit provides power, that power is temporarily transferred to a player using Neural Parasite.

    • Canceling more than one of the same structure at the same time as Zerg will add all Drones to the selection.

    • Improved Larva placement when the bottom edge of a hatchery is on a cliff edge to prevent Larva from getting killed.

    • Spore Crawlers and Spine Crawlers now disable their Stop button when rooting.

    • Fixed an issue where Drone attacks could be more easily dodged than SCV or Probes. 
 
Full patch notes here. 
 
Personally pretty pumped for more shields on Warp Prisms and increased Immortal range.
#2 Edited by supermike6 (3523 posts) -

These actually all seem like really good changes. No rage here. 

#3 Posted by StarvingGamer (7557 posts) -

Immortal range buff is huge.

#4 Edited by Mysterion (159 posts) -

The only thing i have a problem with is the barracks increased construction time but other than that pretty good patch.

#5 Posted by Addfwyn (1914 posts) -

As a Zerg player, I'm okay with all these changes, no real complaints. Maybe a thing or two I'd like to see nerved that wasn't, but I can't object to any of the changes they actually implemented.

#6 Posted by BrainSpecialist (555 posts) -

I'm glad to see Fungal Growth nerfed versus light, it really was overkill versus any tier 1 units.

#7 Posted by csl316 (7345 posts) -

Interesting stuff. Blink, especially.

I like the career thing they're implementing, as well.

Online
#8 Edited by Scrumdidlyumptious (1636 posts) -

They should change bunkers so units from any player can enter them. Then Terrans will have to take more responsibility for their silly bunkers.

#9 Posted by Pibo47 (3166 posts) -
@StarvingGamer said:

Immortal range buff is huge.

Yeah dude. I pretty sure there are going to be some crazy fucking builds because of this patch. Just when i thought that SC2 was perfect..blizz throws us a curve ball.
#10 Posted by Wunder_ (1167 posts) -

I weep today.

#11 Posted by wchigo (524 posts) -
@Wunder_ said:

I weep today.

MOAR TEARS, I HUNGER! 
 
Hmm... interesting changes I would say. I never really liked using Immortals all that much in the past as their slow movement speed coupled with their short range made them extremely annoying to use at times, even when I would hotkey them separately from my Stalkers (ie - Zealot/Sentry/Immortal on 1, Stalkers on 2). 
 
Nice to see a buff to HSM speed as hopefully we'll see more people use Ravens now, and also a fan of the decreased gas cost for Overseer as 100 gas that early in the game can be hard to squeeze out for a Zerg player that early in the game. 
 
I'm just wondering if any of the changes here will effect the current TvP/PvT match-up, especially in the GSL, of Terrans using the 1/1/1 (DESTINY CLOUD FIST!!!) build and just absolutely murdering their Protoss opponents unless they mess up huge. And I mean huge because there have been games where the Terran has made a few mistakes and the Protoss players makes one mistake and still gets rolled. Not advocating any major buffs or nerfs to fix this right away, but it is getting boring to watch...
#12 Posted by StarvingGamer (7557 posts) -

@wchigo said:

I'm just wondering if any of the changes here will effect the current TvP/PvT match-up, especially in the GSL, of Terrans using the 1/1/1 (DESTINY CLOUD FIST!!!) build and just absolutely murdering their Protoss opponents unless they mess up huge. And I mean huge because there have been games where the Terran has made a few mistakes and the Protoss players makes one mistake and still gets rolled. Not advocating any major buffs or nerfs to fix this right away, but it is getting boring to watch...

Immortal buff seems designed specifically to help deal with 1/1/1

#13 Posted by wchigo (524 posts) -

Hm... getting some weird error that's not allowing me to edit my previous post. Wanted to add in that I'm a bit saddened that Blink takes as long as Charge now to research. 110 may have been a bit too short, but I think something like 125 may have been more fair? Granted I think Blink has become, overall, a stronger choice and offers more utility than Charge so I can kind of understand it... 
 
@StarvingGamer:  
 
Didn't realize it was you until I hit the reply button... not used to the Doc Strange.  D: 
 
Well... yes and no. It helps vs the Siege Tanks but there are so many variations of it and Tanks still have like double the range, and with Banshees and/or a Raven giving vision it makes it that much more difficult. The most potent and dangerous version, in my mind, is Marine/Tank/Banshee/Raven with PDD, as that renders Stalkers fairly useless for most of the fight so many times you might be able to clean up the ground units, but then you have nothing left to deal with the Banshees. Perhaps the range buff, along with the [in my mind] somewhat arbitrary lengthening of Barracks build time will help Protoss players deal with the Destiny Cloud Fist build (sorry to keep using this, but the name amuses me to no end) so I'll just wait and see.

#14 Edited by SirOptimusPrime (1854 posts) -

Y'know. The bfh nerf just seems to make it easier for harass decisions. At this point it's much better to make a reactor and pump out your 3 hellions (one shot drone) than to use a tech lab in combination with the bfh timing. 25 seconds faster cumulatively (I think) and it costs far less gas, plus you can transition into pure mech easier in TvT without the need of a FE. That seems slightly irrelevant in TvP and TvZ, as pure mech is sort of struggling there for right now and marine-tank and bio is respectively more "standard" and "safe". All of this is coming from a low level player trying to level up, so take that as you will (i.e. with a house of bricks of salt) 

The other changes seem extremely...fine-tuned and okay. The rax change has happened twice already, and this is all lining to try and make 1/1/1 less nuts. Warp Prism buff will help with that HT drop style that Mc was using against T, which is cool. 

#15 Posted by StarvingGamer (7557 posts) -

@wchigo: Didn't realize it was you until after you replied to my reply o_O

I'm just thinking that every time I see a 1/1/1 rush and the P player has Immortals, they always spend the first few seconds of the fight dancing around trying to get to the tanks when they could have fired at least twice. Then again maybe that's just a symptom of lazy positioning and poor micro and it's going to be TvTvTvNesT every semi-finals. I have HIGH HOPES.

#16 Posted by Turambar (6484 posts) -

Huh, alot of the stuff mentioned in State of the Game in the last few weeks were actually taken into account here. Helion pre-igniter damage, Hunter Seeker missile movement, and even buffing warp prisms to incentivize usage.

#17 Posted by RedEyesBlueBunny (1011 posts) -

cool cool. blue flames nerfed, ultras don't take forever to make anymore, i like it

#18 Posted by Thule (690 posts) -

The fungal change really doesn't change that much

Old Fungal:

2 shot rines without shields, 2 shot rines with shields, 3 shot maruaders, 2 shot vikings, 5 shot zealots, 4 shot stalkers, 5 shot voids

New Fungal:

2 shot rines without shields, 2 shot rins with shields, 4 shot marauders, 4 shot vikings. 5 shot zealots, 4 shot stalkers, 7 shot voids

It's less good against Marauders and vikings and that's pretty much it.

#19 Posted by Enigma777 (6047 posts) -

Goodbye blue flame.

#20 Posted by DystopiaX (5241 posts) -

Immortal range makes sense, makes them slightly more useful. BFH doesn't matter all too much- still oneshots lings, the biggest difference is that it takes 3 shots instead of 2 to kill workers now, which I guess is the point. Blink build time so that toss can't just make blink stalkers and that's it, Ultra, Mothership, HSM changes seem there just to get them to be used more.

#21 Posted by Vexxan (4598 posts) -

Wrath of the blue flames is finally over!

#22 Posted by lilburtonboy7489 (1948 posts) -

The infestor nerf and helion nerf are both bullshit.

#23 Posted by ShockD (2381 posts) -

Noooo, the self-repair SCV bug! ;(

#24 Posted by amir90 (2134 posts) -

Oki, I can deal with this.
Feels like terran got struck hard thou!

#25 Posted by Rayeth (1000 posts) -

People are underestimating the Immortal buff. Do you now realize that stalkers and immortals have the same range? That's HUGE! All the micro that used to go into getting Immortals to actually be able to attack when in a protoss army is gone. No more will Immortals crab walk behind the huge stalker line and be useless. That's a huge buff.

Warp Prism shield upgrade is sorely needed. 100 HP and 40 Shields is a terrible unit. 100/100 is something that won't die in 5 seconds to a single missle turret. It will make harassment significantly easier with it and perhaps protoss players will actually use it as the mobile pylon people have been thinking it might be since the beta.

Tripling the Mothership speed still isn't going to make it usable. It's less bad now, that's for sure, but it still costs soooooo much.

Barracks build time increase is the other HUGE change in this patch. BFH nerf is big, but still only to light units and Hellions are still VERY strong as harass. The 5s build for barracks should make the 2 rax marine opening much less strong. 10s is a huge breathing room for early zerg and protoss openers. I think this might go a long way to evening out the opening game.

#26 Posted by imsh_pl (3295 posts) -

Great changes.

#27 Posted by Hero_Swe (1079 posts) -

and yet SC2 games STILL won't be as exciting as SC1 games. Hiya Vs Boxer anyone?
#28 Posted by Aus_azn (2224 posts) -

All sounds good to me. I'm liking the sound of the random UI changes too.

#29 Edited by Donos (1193 posts) -

@Thule: Fungal isn't just about number of shots, it's how long you have to wait while fungal does damage. This change widens the window to hostile armies to deal damage and prevent the next fungal, making infestors somewhat worse against every unit in the game and severely worse against those which now require an extra shot. In particular, fungal goes from a 1 shot against zerglings to 2 shots, which is massive for ZvZ (mine at least).

#30 Posted by Thule (690 posts) -

@Donos said:

@Thule: Fungal isn't just about number of shots, it's how long you have to wait while fungal does damage. This change widens the window to hostile armies to deal damage and prevent the next fungal, making infestors somewhat worse against every unit in the game and severely worse against those which now require an extra shot. In particular, fungal goes from a 1 shot against zerglings to 2 shots, which is massive for ZvZ (mine at least).

The truth is that Fungal was too strong and needed to be changed. In the grand scheme of things, this change is relatively minor. The damage change is very tiny and personally I don't think it will impact play all that much. If you could kill certain unit/groups of units in the current patch then you can do the same thing in the PTR version. Sure, it's worse against some units, like most Protoss units and the Marauder/Viking, which though annoying isn't that big of a deal.

Also, I don't know at which level you play your ZvZ's, but I wouldn't consider this change "massive" on any level. Whether zerglings are killed instantly by 1 Fungal or severely weakened by one is a difference, but not a big one. You should be able to mop up a bunch of 5 health zerglings with the rest of your army or just fungal them again if you really want to kill them.

#31 Edited by Ben_H (3200 posts) -

The immortal change is huge.  People don't realize how insanely good it is, and with this new range it will not get caught behind stalkers anymore and it will help a ton in PvP.
 
My favourite thing is the Terrans on TL flipping out over the 5 second barracks change claiming it will mess up all of their timings.  Protoss has had basically every opening timing screwed up (gateway time increases, zealot build and warp time increases, warpgate research time increase etc.).     
 
The infestor nerf isn't a big deal, marines still take 2 FGs to kill, only certain mech units take more growths to kill (viking take 4 instead of 3). Destiny said on his stream that it wouldn't do anything to ZvP because the damage change is so small compared to the hp of Protoss units.  Though, ultimately I wish they would have left the base damage alone and just changed the armoured damage (because of how potent it is against stalkers).  I have a feeling this change will be reworked before the actual 1.4 patch comes out.
 
The BF hellion nerf was absolutely required.  For the minimal cost of them, they could do far too much damage, and the Terran wouldn't even have to go out of their way to get the unit, or really be set back if the harass failed.  I played Terran for a while before switching back and it felt borderline unfair how much damage you could do with 2 hellions.  If Zerg isn't ready (which they can't really scout it until it is on its way) they basically autolose unless your hellion control sucks and you get caught by zerglings.

#32 Posted by lilburtonboy7489 (1948 posts) -
@Thule said:

@Donos said:

@Thule: Fungal isn't just about number of shots, it's how long you have to wait while fungal does damage. This change widens the window to hostile armies to deal damage and prevent the next fungal, making infestors somewhat worse against every unit in the game and severely worse against those which now require an extra shot. In particular, fungal goes from a 1 shot against zerglings to 2 shots, which is massive for ZvZ (mine at least).

The truth is that Fungal was too strong and needed to be changed.

No it did not. People bitch about infestors simply because they are too stubborn and stupid to actually counter them correctly. It forces people into more of a reactive style which non-zerg players are not accustomed to. As terran,  you can even go bio against infestors and it will be fine. FFS, get GHOSTS. 1 EMP can make every unit that the zerg poured all of their gas into completely useless. Throw down a couple snipes and you are golden. But people in the lower leagues complain because they are too lazy and have to go out of their way to get ghosts. Also, it requires micro. OH NOES!!!11
 
And fungal isn't THAT good against toss anyways. Besides, if toss does want to completely nullify infestors on the field, get the unit that is cheaper than the infestor and also hard counters them: HT. High temp can use feedback and destroy the infestor army. On top of that, they can become archons after using all their energy. 
 
No. Infestors are not OP and do not need to be changed. People just need to stop being babies and learn to adapt their play like zerg players do.
#33 Posted by Sarsi (3 posts) -

Yeah. Zerg players really adapted great when they were having a hard time against protoss. Blizzard didn't do anything to help them along!

#34 Posted by Thule (690 posts) -

@lilburtonboy7489 said:

No it did not. People bitch about infestors simply because they are too stubborn and stupid to actually counter them correctly. It forces people into more of a reactive style which non-zerg players are not accustomed to. As terran, you can even go bio against infestors and it will be fine. FFS, get GHOSTS. 1 EMP can make every unit that the zerg poured all of their gas into completely useless. Throw down a couple snipes and you are golden. But people in the lower leagues complain because they are too lazy and have to go out of their way to get ghosts. Also, it requires micro. OH NOES!!!11 And fungal isn't THAT good against toss anyways. Besides, if toss does want to completely nullify infestors on the field, get the unit that is cheaper than the infestor and also hard counters them: HT. High temp can use feedback and destroy the infestor army. On top of that, they can become archons after using all their energy. No. Infestors are not OP and do not need to be changed. People just need to stop being babies and learn to adapt their play like zerg players do.

Ah, the good old Learn 2 Play-argument. Your rage is rather misplaced though, because as I said before the change to Fungal is relatively minor and will not affect much, apart from some units requiring one more fungal to kill.

#35 Posted by haffy (673 posts) -
@Sarsi said:
Yeah. Zerg players really adapted great when they were having a hard time against protoss. Blizzard didn't do anything to help them along!
I've never understood why people use this as an argument . Lets sum up the entire race because of a few whiners!  
 
And yes Zerg did adapt to some all ins in the same way Terran adapted to baneling busts, roach pushes and 4 gates. The same way Protoss dealt with ling roach all ins, MM pushes, cloaked banshees. 
 
People bitch about everything in Starcraft. just because Blizzard eventually changes something does not mean they looked at the people whining. Force fields and collosis were a massive thing people bitched about for fucking months. Have they been changed at all?
#36 Posted by Tebbit (4435 posts) -

Jesus! Sure, nerf the flame, but not that much! You might as well just go siege now.

#37 Posted by Thule (690 posts) -

@Tebbit said:

Jesus! Sure, nerf the flame, but not that much! You might as well just go siege now.

It's not that much. Only difference is that you'll need to hit a drone/probe/scv three times, rather than two times in order to kill it. Zerglings still die in two hits from a blue flame Hellion.

#38 Posted by Tebbit (4435 posts) -

@Thule: My ruthless mineral-line runs are over!

#39 Posted by Rayeth (1000 posts) -

@Tebbit said:

Jesus! Sure, nerf the flame, but not that much! You might as well just go siege now.

So you still only get +5 more to light units. Currently Hellions deal 8(+6 vs Light), With Pre-Igniter that used to be 8(+16 vs Light). So un-upgraded you got 14 vs light units and with the blue flames you had 24. With this nerf you'll still have that 14, and with the upgrade will be reduced to 19.

That 5 damage is easily made up by just making another hellion. Hellions are still crazy fast early game and their harass vs workers is barely changed. This nerf is fine.

#40 Posted by Chubbaluphigous (571 posts) -

I don't mind the Fungal nerf, because ultimately it doesn't really impact it's use for damage.  Rarely are more than 2 fungals chained for the damage.  It is always the fungals along with units to actually kill something off.  Not even Destiny will chain 6 fungals to kill a VR or 4 to kill a Stalker.  75 energy a pop is a lot, and you can't afford to use a lot of them to kill off a small group of units.  Hopefully this will nerf the whining that has gone on over FG.
 
I understand why they would need to increase the cost of contaminate, but I think that they increased it too much.  With the lowered cost of an overseer people can make more, and they don't want contaminate to be overused.  I would prefer the they just lowered the starting energy of it.  It will go from a rarely used spell, to a spell that is never used.

#41 Posted by Ben_H (3200 posts) -

I don't even think fungal growth was a problem (against Protoss, I don't have very much experience against it as Terran).  All you have to do is get a Templar  archives and a few HTs to feedback, which is an easily accessible tech by the time infestors come out.  I do feel that it should slow units instead of locking them in place though as  it does feel kinda dumb that you can get chain fungaled and not be able to do anything about it.

#42 Posted by baldgye (756 posts) -
@Pibo47 said:
@StarvingGamer said:

Immortal range buff is huge.

Yeah dude. I pretty sure there are going to be some crazy fucking builds because of this patch. Just when i thought that SC2 was perfect..blizz throws us a curve ball.
hahhaahhaha
 
The imo buff is actually so needed, in PvP atm you can't do anything but go collosus mid game... this buff might actually make imo's good with chargelots vs the standard death ball
#43 Posted by DG991 (1344 posts) -

Only change that I don't like:

  • Stalker
    • Blink research time increased from 110 to 140.

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr throws off my timing.

#44 Posted by onimonkii (2421 posts) -
@baldgye said:
@Pibo47 said:
@StarvingGamer said:

Immortal range buff is huge.

Yeah dude. I pretty sure there are going to be some crazy fucking builds because of this patch. Just when i thought that SC2 was perfect..blizz throws us a curve ball.
hahhaahhaha  The imo buff is actually so needed, in PvP atm you can't do anything but go collosus mid game... this buff might actually make imo's good with chargelots vs the standard death ball
wasn't artosis trying out chargelot/archon with immortals when archons got buffed?
#45 Posted by baldgye (756 posts) -
@onimonkii said:
@baldgye said:
@Pibo47 said:
@StarvingGamer said:

Immortal range buff is huge.

Yeah dude. I pretty sure there are going to be some crazy fucking builds because of this patch. Just when i thought that SC2 was perfect..blizz throws us a curve ball.
hahhaahhaha  The imo buff is actually so needed, in PvP atm you can't do anything but go collosus mid game... this buff might actually make imo's good with chargelots vs the standard death ball
wasn't artosis trying out chargelot/archon with immortals when archons got buffed?
yeah he was... but the problem with that army comp is becasue atm imo's have such a short range, its hard to make best use of them, becasue you have zelots in the front, but u also then need ur imo's at the front so they can actually do dmg... its why you don't see them so often at high lvl games
#46 Posted by Ben_H (3200 posts) -

The new neural parasite change (cannot NP massive units) is completely uncalled for.  It essentially makes NP useless other than against tanks. It also forces zerg to get corrupters again, which sucks because those things are useless in most situations against Protoss.  It also will make the thor/hellion mass repair timing way better because one good way of dispatching the thors was NPing them and then attack moving them with zerglings after the thors killed the hellions and damaged each other, now you have to fungal and throw units at it and hope for the best. It just seems needless.

#47 Posted by DystopiaX (5241 posts) -

@Ben_H said:

The new neural parasite change (cannot NP massive units) is completely uncalled for. It essentially makes NP useless other than against tanks. It also forces zerg to get corrupters again, which sucks because those things are useless in most situations against Protoss. It also will make the thor/hellion mass repair timing way better because one good way of dispatching the thors was NPing them and then attack moving them with zerglings after the thors killed the hellions and damaged each other, now you have to fungal and throw units at it and hope for the best. It just seems needless.

tanks, immortals, HT/Ghost maybe if lucky and they don't EMP/feedback

#48 Posted by baldgye (756 posts) -
@Ben_H said:
The new neural parasite change (cannot NP massive units) is completely uncalled for.  It essentially makes NP useless other than against tanks. It also forces zerg to get corrupters again, which sucks because those things are useless in most situations against Protoss.  It also will make the thor/hellion mass repair timing way better because one good way of dispatching the thors was NPing them and then attack moving them with zerglings after the thors killed the hellions and damaged each other, now you have to fungal and throw units at it and hope for the best. It just seems needless.
corrupters are really good at killing all ur collosus... and aslong as you can make the protoss wait... they are pretty good once u get a greater spire ;)
#49 Posted by Ben_H (3200 posts) -
@DystopiaX said:

@Ben_H said:

The new neural parasite change (cannot NP massive units) is completely uncalled for. It essentially makes NP useless other than against tanks. It also forces zerg to get corrupters again, which sucks because those things are useless in most situations against Protoss. It also will make the thor/hellion mass repair timing way better because one good way of dispatching the thors was NPing them and then attack moving them with zerglings after the thors killed the hellions and damaged each other, now you have to fungal and throw units at it and hope for the best. It just seems needless.

tanks, immortals, HT/Ghost maybe if lucky and they don't EMP/feedback

That's all I could think of too.  HTs you would lose to since feedback is instant and neural isn't and they have the same range.  Ghosts only if the other person sucks or isn't paying attention (splash range of EMP is more than NP). 
 
The biggest issue I see with it not hitting massive is that NP used to discourage massing thors and collossi since they could wreck your own army if NP'd.  It basically takes PvZ back to how it was late last year (roach/hydra/corruptor with a few infestors vs colossus/voidray).  Remember how awesome that was.  I had like an 85% w/l in PvZ before they buffed the infestor.
#50 Posted by TheSouthernDandy (3626 posts) -

The Immortal, Warp Prism and Ultralisk changes are awesome. Lower cost Overseers is pretty rad too.

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