Archons: Is there any real use for them?

#1 Edited by BombKareshi (996 posts) -

I'm exploring my options as Protoss, and I'm stumped to find a use for Archons.
 
The problem is, whether you're making them with High Templar or Dark Templar, they're one hell of an expensive unit and not all that powerful. Not to mention that both flavours of Templar are probably more useful on their own. Also, they seem to have been nerfed quite a bit from the original StarCraft.
 
I guess they're there as a fallback unit when your Templar become obsolete for some reason.

#2 Posted by davidwitten22 (1708 posts) -

Before the most recent balance patch, there wasn't a use for archons. Now that they were made massive (no longer affected by concussive shells) and had their range increased by one, they're actually great. In a big battle, once you use all your templars storms and feedbacks you might as well turn them into archons. They're also great against mutas, and pretty much all zerg units. And they're great against bio, especially ghostless bio. Chargelot Immortal High Templar/Archon is actually an incredibly strong unit combination. 
 
Also in PVP they're useful because they can break forcefields and are good tanks.

#3 Edited by Thule (693 posts) -

Archons are actually widely used now and Zealot + Archon compositions are very common thanks to them getting buffed in the patches. So maybe you shouldn't give up on them yet.

#4 Posted by Green_Incarnate (1791 posts) -

You have to use archons + templar to beat infestor ling.

#5 Posted by BombKareshi (996 posts) -

I googled the unit, but most of the information I found was outdated, I see.
 
So that latest patch made a huge difference, eh? I'd read about Zealout/Archon builds but I thought it was kind of an experimental thing.
 
I think I'll give it a shot sometime.

#6 Posted by baldgye (758 posts) -

I think you should 4gate more lol

#7 Posted by BombKareshi (996 posts) -
@baldgye said:
I think you should 4gate more lol
I'm not gonna deny it, but I do intend to work on that.
#8 Posted by Wunder_ (1171 posts) -

ARCHONS ARE REALLY GOOD

#9 Posted by Rhombus_Of_Terror (2139 posts) -

From what remember from a day9 feature, he mentions that archons are cheaper than colossus and do the same amount of damage, I could be wrong, but if that's true, The archon buff changes a lot of things.

#10 Posted by baldgye (758 posts) -
@RhombusOfTerror said:

From what remember from a day9 feature, he mentions that archons are cheaper than colossus and do the same amount of damage, I could be wrong, but if that's true, The archon buff changes a lot of things.

thats not true
#11 Edited by csl316 (9226 posts) -

@BombKareshi said:

I googled the unit, but most of the information I found was outdated, I see. So that latest patch made a huge difference, eh? I'd read about Zealout/Archon builds but I thought it was kind of an expierimental thing. I think I'll give it a shot sometime.

i'd say instead of google, go to teamliquid.net and use the Liquipedia. it's basically a wiki and highlights units and their uses for different match ups. that's usually up to date, i believe. the patch did make big difference, and pro games tend to feature more and more archons these days.

#12 Edited by Meteora (5787 posts) -

A ton of archons + mass chargelots absolutely destroys Terran bioballs, especially if they don't have enough Ghosts. They do fairly well against Zerg. 
 
And there's always the archon toliet trick, which has been somewhat nerfed.

#13 Posted by Aus_azn (2224 posts) -

Watch a couple of the GSPA casts, there's been some recent archon action.

#14 Posted by Rayeth (1067 posts) -

Archons are never a unit you should attempt to "go for" in most situations. They are great uses HTs without energy (after storms and feedbacks are used) or occasionally for Dts who have outlived their usefulness. They have a weird place in PvP because of the massive status, but I don't really think that the cost of getting them is worth the benefit there.

#15 Edited by Moztacular (468 posts) -

@Rayeth: you need to read some of the previous posts, archon+zealot is becoming a widely accepted strategy especially in dealing with the recent zergling/infestor strategy that I myself have been using in the protoss match up. Saying the archon is never a unit to "go for" is a bit harsh, especially after the most recent balance patch. It certainly isn't useful in every situation of course, but no unit is (except marines damn them to hell).

To the original poster, yeah definitely consider the archon when dealing with a zerg doing ling/infestor only play, as a diamond zerg player that's the only real scary thing a protoss can do for me to feel unsafe, otherwise you can neural parasite collosus and void rays, fungal zealots and stalkers. Archons just make a mess of zerglings! Im sure they can make a difference against terran bioballs these days since concussive shells dont affect them but I have less experience in the terran department.

#16 Posted by Rayeth (1067 posts) -

@Moztacular:

I guess I wasn't thinking so far into the game. In my (gold) league games I rarely make it that far into the game. By the time infestors are out, obviously you would have had time to build up your tech as you see fit. I still don't see them as the primary unit to go for though, because you would still want to try and get some feedbacks off on the infestors, and perhaps be researching storm. So the archon to me feels more like the stop-gap unit to make while you hold off a strong Z (or T w/ ghosts/medivacs) before you have finished getting your HTs with storm up. Maybe I'm wrong and that's the reason I'm still in gold, but I don't think so (it's probably my terrible macro).

#17 Posted by Makula (59 posts) -

Archons can eat hundreds of lings no problem!! nom nom nom!!

#18 Posted by Sweep (8947 posts) -

My understanding was that archons did good damage as AA but yeah, they are very expensive :/ I haven't played toss for a while but i very rarely see any archon play.

Moderator
#19 Posted by csl316 (9226 posts) -

The bonus to bio units makes it pretty awesome vs. tier 1 armies, as well.

#20 Posted by DillonWerner (1528 posts) -

I miss the archon toilets :( 

#21 Posted by ShockD (2429 posts) -

Yes, they be pretty useful after your High Templar army runs out of energy. Yet I think they're less effective in SC2 because of the lack of plasma shield recharging structure.

#22 Posted by sreya92 (193 posts) -
@Moztacular said:

@Rayeth: you need to read some of the previous posts, archon+zealot is becoming a widely accepted strategy especially in dealing with the recent zergling/infestor strategy that I myself have been using in the protoss match up. Saying the archon is never a unit to "go for" is a bit harsh, especially after the most recent balance patch. It certainly isn't useful in every situation of course, but no unit is (except marines damn them to hell).

To the original poster, yeah definitely consider the archon when dealing with a zerg doing ling/infestor only play, as a diamond zerg player that's the only real scary thing a protoss can do for me to feel unsafe, otherwise you can neural parasite collosus and void rays, fungal zealots and stalkers. Archons just make a mess of zerglings! Im sure they can make a difference against terran bioballs these days since concussive shells dont affect them but I have less experience in the terran department.

LOL! Love the comment on marines. It's ridiculous with a +3 upgrade that they become some of the most powerful units in the game for the cost i mean 50 mins wtf?!

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