Criticisms of Day9 ?

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#1 Posted by Mageman (351 posts) -

So I watched the almost an hour long interview with IdrA and he mentioned that there seem to be some criticisms flying towards Day9 in the Starcraft community and I am curious what those criticisms are. I stopped following SC some time ago so I'm kinda interested in this.

#2 Posted by GS_Dan (1403 posts) -

Probably his tangents during his dailies, but I really like those personally.

#3 Posted by Green_Incarnate (1788 posts) -

No idea. Possibly it's the few people calling out his fakish personality or that he makes too much money.

#4 Posted by baldgye (756 posts) -

I stopped watching his dailes, even funday monday becasue he thought he was alot funnier than he was and went off on too many tangents. I have no problem with him making money though.

#5 Posted by Mageman (351 posts) -

@Green_Incarnate said:

No idea. Possibly it's the few people calling out his fakish personality or that he makes too much money.

Weird, to me he seems rather genuine, especially since he shares quite a lot of things from his life, it all seems to suit him quite well.

#6 Posted by SirPsychoSexy (1330 posts) -

A month or so ago some people were saying how well off he is. That he helps esports grow, but mostly for the money. He also got criticized for supposedly getting his friend Lastshadow or something like that into the 16 Player invite only Red Bull battlegrounds. People were upset because it should have been 16 of the best in the world and last shadow really is not close to that level and even last placed got prize money. Turns out lastshadow left mid tournamanet and didnt finish his games and could not be found. He also deleted his twitter and facbook and stuff too, or possibly hacked. So yea Day9 took some heat for that too.

But he seems like a really genuinely good guy to me. But eh people on /r/starcraft will witch hunt anyone

#7 Posted by CaLe (3995 posts) -

How much money does he make?

#8 Posted by TruthTellah (9151 posts) -

@Mageman: Some people just don't like happy people.

heh. Actually, the only legitimate criticism I've seen of Day9(Sean Plott) is that his tournament casts sometimes dip into being funny over just saying what is happening. Though, personalities are important for casting like that, and some pros like Idra don't understand that. Ill-tempered, serious people like that don't appreciate the aid that humor and simplification can provide. Some also don't understand why many casters can't just get extremely technical with their casting. They say, "Just say what is happening! Leave the personality and jokes at home!" But these are necessary for ginning up interest and investment, not just informing. Day9 knows the details, but casting, just like casting of any sport, is a lot more about entertainment than simply stats and details.

Day9 -is- a genuine guy, but he is certainly a personality. And people can like or dislike personalities. That's natural. Some like TotalBiscuit and others aren't fond of him. People like Tastosis, and some do not. It's just how things go. As far as legitimate criticism goes, though, there isn't much. Day9 is doing fine, and he continues to expand his brand. There are some real personalities developing in the casting scene, and it is only aiding E-sports.

#9 Posted by haffy (673 posts) -

Basically watch this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dqYxpxegrk

It's got a fair bit of swearing.

But I think from Idra's point of view he went from that, where he was basically him self. To a person who kind of acts like him self, but a sedate, kind of constantly aware a lot of people are watching.

Personally I think it makes sense. If you look at the shit Idra gets constantly, for basically being him self and think how badly it would of effected Day 9's career he's built for himself with all the new players to SC2.

#10 Posted by Green_Incarnate (1788 posts) -
#11 Posted by TruthTellah (9151 posts) -

@SirPsychoSexy: heh. I like that people have the impression that he's "well off" while he's still sharing a house with multiple roommates and driving the same car he's always had. He's definitely not living it up. He's doing well, but not in some major way. It's not like he's charging anyone for his videos either, and he certainly isn't asking a ton for tournaments. His brother is doing better than he is, and even his brother only lives in a halfway-decent place. I don't think anyone should begrudge Day9 for not being completely destitute.

#12 Posted by haffy (673 posts) -
#13 Posted by csl316 (8765 posts) -

@baldgye said:

I stopped watching his dailes, even funday monday becasue he thought he was alot funnier than he was and went off on too many tangents. I have no problem with him making money though.

Yep, he started becoming more annoying than entertaining. Enthusiasm is good, but the last daily I watched was literally a third of this guy ranting at the camera trying really, really hard to be funny. Then I watched the Amnesia playthrough after being away for months and it just pushed me away more. But since the Daily was a gateway for me into pro SC games, I'm all for him doing well. Even if some of the actual criticism is warranted (Lastshadow).

Interestingly, though, I could listen to Nick and Dan bs for as long as they need to between games.

#14 Posted by SirPsychoSexy (1330 posts) -

Yea I watched the daily when sc2 was just coming out, but for fucks sake he pauses so often and tells so many stories I just want to see the damn game.

#15 Posted by jorbear (2517 posts) -

He became desperate to maintain his status that he had in the beta and in the earlier days of SC2. I just became fed up with his brand of humor and sort of stopped watching.

#16 Posted by TruthTellah (9151 posts) -

@haffy: Idra's problem is that he has never been okay with people being nicer or less vulgar because they decide to. He has never been a fan of personality, and I think that has always held him back as a pro player. Pro players are often commodities and personalities, but he has always preferred being genuinely grumpy than personable. It certainly bothered him about playing in Korea, as Korean pros really understood the worth of refining your look and personality. Being appealing to fans and advertisers is important for E-sports.

I think Idra's feelings on this were best summed up by Idra himself in an interview a while back:

Question: "If you had to introduce yourself to our fans who never met you, how would you describe yourself? Write a few sentences about your personality.

Idra: "Personality should be irrelevant. This is a computer game tournament, not a dating show."

It's like football players. Usually, they'll figure out that when you get to the NFL, you have to actually maintain some public image rather than just get in bar fights and curse up a storm. That's acknowledging the public nature of your position, and for casters, their personality is even -more- of the commodity. For Day9, he grew up a bit(he's still only 25), and he realized that he had to get serious about casting. To get serious about it, he had to reign in his cursing and some crass humor. And he has done that rather successfully. Some may prefer a more "raw" Day9, but I don't think Idra would appreciate that either. He has complained time and time again of any players or casters having personality. He has made clear that he thinks they should just say what is happening and keep it at that. But in the reality of tournaments as an entertainment platform, there has to be a lot more to it.

#17 Posted by kindgineer (2734 posts) -

It's, again, the minority outcry that Day9 goes off tangents "too" much. He is a great caster, one of my favourite up there with Husky, and is just plain good at what he does. Those naysayers that don't like it are the people that shouldn't be tuning into his casting anyway.

Internet outcries are gigantic snowballs. One person decides to open their mouth, and every has-been has to feel a part of something so they throw in their vocal support.

#18 Posted by baldgye (756 posts) -

@ck1nd said:

It's, again, the minority outcry that Day9 goes off tangents "too" much. He is a great caster, one of my favourite up there with Husky, and is just plain good at what he does. Those naysayers that don't like it are the people that shouldn't be tuning into his casting anyway.

Internet outcries are gigantic snowballs. One person decides to open their mouth, and every has-been has to feel a part of something so they throw in their vocal support.

his casting and his show are very diffrent, though I do wish he would drop his show totally and focus on casting and going back to the analysis that really only Artosis does when he casts GSL.

It would also be awesome for Day9 to go back to playing as a pro... but that will never happen

#19 Posted by GunslingerPanda (4793 posts) -

lol Maybe IdrA should spend less time criticizing Day9 and more time practicing. He certainly needs it.

#20 Edited by Trilogy (2657 posts) -

I don't get this thing about him being wealthy. He always talks about barely being able to make rent.

Also, who gives a shit if he is? Why would that matter to anyone? I'm kind of sick of this attitude that casters shouldn't be allowed to make any money whatsoever and especially not more than *gasp* A PROFESSIONAL VIDEO GAME PLAYER...Get over it. I wouldn't even give a shit about the sc2 pro scene if it wasn't for day9 and I'm certainly not the only one. As far as I'm concerned, if E-sports ever wants to be taken seriously and grow larger than what it is (and it does due to sponsors, viewership, prize pools, ect) then a lot more people in the industry need to be more professional about their job. You've got players like Naniwa who can't even answer simple questions before the tournament game starts because he's too fucking socially awkward to do so. I'm not asking for players to be doing a song and dance on stage but at least be able to humor the host of the show by giving more than one worded or awkward answers. Then you have horrible commentators who don't know how to stall during a tournament when there are technical difficulties. Way too much awkward silence. These people are paid to talk to the audience. At least be good at speaking. That's why I appreciate guys like Day9, tasteless, artosis, husky, and some others. They know the game, they know how to talk to a crowd of thousands of people, they know how to stall, they know how to play off of each other, and they have the personalities to back all that up.

#21 Posted by csl316 (8765 posts) -

@Trilogy: Wait wait... I thought everyone here was cool with him making money?

Seems we're just not huge on the daily anymore.

#22 Posted by haffy (673 posts) -

@TruthTellah said:

@haffy: Idra's problem is that he has never been okay with people being nicer or less vulgar because they decide to. He has never been a fan of personality, and I think that has always held him back as a pro player. Pro players are often commodities and personalities, but he has always preferred being genuinely grumpy than personable. It certainly bothered him about playing in Korea, as Korean pros really understood the worth of refining your look and personality. Being appealing to fans and advertisers is important for E-sports.

I think Idra's feelings on this were best summed up by Idra himself in an interview a while back:

Question: "If you had to introduce yourself to our fans who never met you, how would you describe yourself? Write a few sentences about your personality.

Idra: "Personality should be irrelevant. This is a computer game tournament, not a dating show."

It's like football players. Usually, they'll figure out that when you get to the NFL, you have to actually maintain some public image rather than just get in bar fights and curse up a storm. That's acknowledging the public nature of your position, and for casters, their personality is even -more- of the commodity. For Day9, he grew up a bit(he's still only 25), and he realized that he had to get serious about casting. To get serious about it, he had to reign in his cursing and some crass humor. And he has done that rather successfully. Some may prefer a more "raw" Day9, but I don't think Idra would appreciate that either. He has complained time and time again of any players or casters having personality. He has made clear that he thinks they should just say what is happening and keep it at that. But in the reality of tournaments as an entertainment platform, there has to be a lot more to it.

You know, personally feelings aside I think Idra does a really good job of keeping his enigma style and selling his brand.

If you judged Idra purely on his playing ability, he would still be a really good professional. But somehow through his blunt mannerisms has got him a hell of a lot of attention.

Personally I really like him for it. He may do and say things I don't really agree with, alsomakes some rash statements. But I never get the feeling he's hiding or holding anything back, while with Day9 it seems like he does sometimes. I still like both of them, and I think they both bring different, positive things to Starcraft.

Also no matter how much people may dislike Idra, I think it's hard to argue that he doesn't bring a lot of good attention and entertainment to the scene. I mean you don't get a 2330+ page fan club for nothing.

#23 Posted by mrpandaman (866 posts) -

@Trilogy said:

I don't get this thing about him being wealthy. He always talks about barely being able to make rent.

Day[9] has stated that it's not about him not being able to make rent, it's about him not remembering to give his rent money to his landlord.

I have just started to watch Day[9]'s dailies and this is what I've got... he drools a lot, sometimes makes jokes that aren't exactly funny, but hilarious because his reactions to his own jokes, extremely happy and positive, and one of the most knowledgeable SC2 people out there. He is very good at what he does and his dailies do help with play even his Fundays Mondays help introduce things you probably never thought of doing. Even if he does go off on tangents, most of the time greater than 60% of the time he does talk about strategy.

And people who find Day[9] annoying, I just think that maybe you need a break from him.

#24 Edited by Trilogy (2657 posts) -

@mrpandaman said:

@Trilogy said:

I don't get this thing about him being wealthy. He always talks about barely being able to make rent.

Day[9] has stated that it's not about him not being able to make rent, it's about him not remembering to give his rent money to his landlord.

I have just started to watch Day[9]'s dailies and this is what I've got... he drools a lot, sometimes makes jokes that aren't exactly funny, but hilarious because his reactions to his own jokes, extremely happy and positive, and one of the most knowledgeable SC2 people out there. He is very good at what he does and his dailies do help with play even his Fundays Mondays help introduce things you probably never thought of doing. Even if he does go off on tangents, most of the time greater than 60% of the time he does talk about strategy.

And people who find Day[9] annoying, I just think that maybe you need a break from him.

He's definitely mentioned not having the money to make rent as well as well as straight up forgetting about it. Either way, my point is these aren't the issues of a wealthy person. And even if he was, I would have zero issue with it.

#25 Posted by TruthTellah (9151 posts) -

@haffy: Well, I'd say I'm certainly not a hater of Idra; I have often rooted for him in the past. I simply think he is often out-of-touch with the realities of StarCraft II and E-sports in general. Sure he has embraced his bad boy persona a bit, but that's natural. As a player, he can get away with that. For a caster, there are a lot more things to consider. You -have- to be likable. And with MLG's continued interest in expanding their appeal, they also have to be family friendly. If you look at Day9's stand-up comedy history, he can certainly be quite vulgar, but he is also very smart. And he realized that the only way to really succeed as a caster in a family-friendly environment is to be more family-friendly. Idra can get away with being ill-tempered because casters can still make stories around "the bad boy" or "the foreigner" vs someone else, but for someone like Day9, he has to be more of a personality and commodity.

It's like people who see Steve Carrell or various other comedians and are disappointed to see that they're a bit different in person. Day9 happens to actually be pretty darn close to his public persona; his everyday self is just more everyday. So, there isn't the stark contrast of Jim Carrey actually being very calm in person; there's just the more family-friendly Day9 and the everyday Day9 that is still pretty dang goofy. For someone to be critical of that distinction simply shows a lack of understanding of what his job entails.

Fortunately, criticism of Day9 is still rather minimal. He's far from perfect, but he's still one of the top SCII casters in the world. Idra has always bickered with Day9, and Idra has always been critical of caster personalities. These things will probably continue well into the future. My hope is that Day9 will continue to succeed and Idra can get back on his game, stop grousing so much, and just find ways to win more. I was really happy to see his win in China months ago, but he has been lacking ever since. Zerg has been seeing some big boosts lately, and Idra can certainly capitalize. Hopefully he can get it together and focus on winning StarCraft II tournaments over complaining about silly stuff like this.

#26 Posted by Turambar (6790 posts) -

I haven't noticed any change in personality between when I started watching him back during the beta and now.  Also people claiming he makes too much money are idiotic considering he still lives in an apartment with some roommates.  My two cents.

#27 Posted by mrpandaman (866 posts) -

@Trilogy: Oh okay, I might've not watched that far back yet.

But you're right, it doesn't matter if Day[9] is wealthy or not. He's a great personality to have especially if pro-gaming is going to continue to grow. If anything he has gotten me back into SC2 and watching it again.

#28 Posted by Ares42 (2688 posts) -

What's up with everyone talking about Idra hating Day[9] ? That's not what the OP was talking about at all.

Anyways, not to make this a hate parade, but the one thing that turned me off his normal dailies was when I realized most of it is just him opening his mouth and letting whatever comes out come out. Although he keeps admitting to it himself, so I don't really hold it against him. It does however makes his dailies less interesting (as there are plenty of times where he completely contradicts himself or just say completely obvious/wrong stuff). Also, as others have said, his Funday Mondays started out as naturally funny but has developed more and more into desperately trying to recreate those moments. And ofc there's the whole mono-battle thing, which in the same way was a novel idea but is actually just a really boring mode.

He's still one of the absolutely best casters though, but I think the zeitgeist of his personality has sorta passed.

Online
#29 Posted by baldgye (756 posts) -

@Ares42 said:

What's up with everyone talking about Idra hating Day[9] ? That's not what the OP was talking about at all.

Anyways, not to make this a hate parade, but the one thing that turned me off his normal dailies was when I realized most of it is just him opening his mouth and letting whatever comes out come out. Although he keeps admitting to it himself, so I don't really hold it against him. It does however makes his dailies less interesting (as there are plenty of times where he completely contradicts himself or just say completely obvious/wrong stuff). Also, as others have said, his Funday Mondays started out as naturally funny but has developed more and more into desperately trying to recreate those moments. And ofc there's the whole mono-battle thing, which in the same way was a novel idea but is actually just a really boring mode.

He's still one of the absolutely best casters though, but I think the zeitgeist of his personality has sorta passed.

lmao people don't read OPs

#30 Posted by Canteu (2821 posts) -

I don't know much about Day[9] but personally I think Husky is a better caster, and all round sexier man.

#31 Edited by Panpipe (474 posts) -

There seems to be a weird phenomenon with Day9 where you enjoy watching it a lot at first, then after a while you lose interest and somehow now you think Day9 is rubbish or not what he used to be. That's what I felt at least.

I'm sure he's changed, but I think a lot of it is that you graduate from watching his show which is mostly for beginners or fun and then either quit on SC2 altogether or start watching GSL, MLG, streams or something else.

He's a great ambassador for the sport. A lot of people don't like to hear that, or don't want an ambassador for SC2 at all, but they're jerks.

#32 Posted by baldgye (756 posts) -

shame all you people with opinions choose not to participate in any of the community tournaments. Seems people are far happier to bitch and cry about nonsense drama than actually play.

#33 Posted by TruthTellah (9151 posts) -

@Canteu said:

I don't know much about Day[9] but personally I think Husky is a better caster, and all round sexier man.

I like when Husky and Day9 cast -together-. Like they did this afternoon for TSL.

#34 Posted by TruthTellah (9151 posts) -

@baldgye: heh. The only reason I haven't yet participated in any of the community tournaments is because I am just utter rubbish at actually playing it. I love watching and analyzing it, but I'm just not that good at it.

#35 Posted by baldgye (756 posts) -

@TruthTellah said:

@baldgye: heh. The only reason I haven't yet participated in any of the community tournaments is because I am just utter rubbish at actually playing it. I love watching and analyzing it, but I'm just not that good at it.

I don't care about your half arsed excuses, it just saddens me that when someone tries to help pull our little sc2 community together with little meaningless torments about 6 people turn up... yet when there is some nonsense drama about nothing a bunch of people who would never be seen at the little tournaments turn up... it's just sad.

#36 Posted by benjaebe (2783 posts) -

First I've heard of it, but I watch every Daily and don't really keep up with the e-sports drama.

#37 Posted by TruthTellah (9151 posts) -

@baldgye: Well, you don't need to be rude to me about it. I don't represent all those people who make a fuss over the setting up of a tournament but don't show up. I'm just a person commenting online on something that interests me. I'm not just here as an outlet of your personal frustrations over something else.

#38 Edited by PeezMachine (235 posts) -

I went to college with the guy and I can safely say he's not trying to be somebody he's not. He's a super friendly, intelligent, talkative, and funny guy who doesn't mind rustling a few feathers for the sake of entertainment.

Also watch him play Smallword with Wil Wheaton and company:

#39 Posted by Cloudenvy (5891 posts) -

@baldgye said:

@TruthTellah said:

@baldgye: heh. The only reason I haven't yet participated in any of the community tournaments is because I am just utter rubbish at actually playing it. I love watching and analyzing it, but I'm just not that good at it.

I don't care about your half arsed excuses, it just saddens me that when someone tries to help pull our little sc2 community together with little meaningless torments about 6 people turn up... yet when there is some nonsense drama about nothing a bunch of people who would never be seen at the little tournaments turn up... it's just sad.

Hahahahahaha, oh wow.

#40 Posted by TruthTellah (9151 posts) -

@PeezMachine: That Smallworld episode was great. I hope he'll do more episodes with them.

#41 Posted by TheSouthernDandy (3881 posts) -

@baldgye said:

@TruthTellah said:

@baldgye: heh. The only reason I haven't yet participated in any of the community tournaments is because I am just utter rubbish at actually playing it. I love watching and analyzing it, but I'm just not that good at it.

I don't care about your half arsed excuses, it just saddens me that when someone tries to help pull our little sc2 community together with little meaningless torments about 6 people turn up... yet when there is some nonsense drama about nothing a bunch of people who would never be seen at the little tournaments turn up... it's just sad.

Dude relax. Truth didn't do anything to get you pissy so don't take it out on him.

If people really are giving Day9 grief about cleaning up his swearing, thats dumb as hell. He's trying to appeal to a wider audience I'm sure and maybe doesn't wanna be swearing like a pirate in front of a bunch of younger people. He's a cheeseball sure but the guy works hard so who cares if he doesn't swear. And as for gettin paid, I'm pretty sure any of the people bitching about it would trade places with him in a second. Good for him for making a success of himself.

The lastshadow thing was kinda sketchy though. Ah whatever.

#42 Edited by EthanML (455 posts) -

People referencing Husky as a good caster makes my soul hurt. Day9 is fine, he does go off on not-so-funny and overly long tangents occasionally but they're rarely that awful, and he definitely does a lot for the scene.

#43 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19353 posts) -

@EthanML: I quite enjoy listening to Husy casts. Those Red Bull Husky + Day[9] dual casts were really fun to listen to.

#44 Posted by EuanDewar (4965 posts) -

i was told he loves that man dick

#45 Posted by csl316 (8765 posts) -

@Cloudenvy said:

@baldgye said:

@TruthTellah said:

@baldgye: heh. The only reason I haven't yet participated in any of the community tournaments is because I am just utter rubbish at actually playing it. I love watching and analyzing it, but I'm just not that good at it.

I don't care about your half arsed excuses, it just saddens me that when someone tries to help pull our little sc2 community together with little meaningless torments about 6 people turn up... yet when there is some nonsense drama about nothing a bunch of people who would never be seen at the little tournaments turn up... it's just sad.

Hahahahahaha, oh wow.

Plus the last US tourney had like 20 people, and it was awesome!

#46 Posted by Bwast (1342 posts) -

Recently people have been giving him a hard time because his analysis has been slipping and becoming more and more basic or even outdated. People wonder if he even plays the game regularly any more and they're beginning to think he's turning into more of a personality rather than a source for learning top level Starcraft 2.

Personally I never liked the guy but whatever. People like him, I don't. I'll live...somehow.

#47 Posted by Ben_H (3366 posts) -

The reason I stopped watching his show is that it doesn't actually teach anything anymore. When the game first came out and there were lots of people new to RTS mechanics the show got huge because it actually taught a lot of stuff and you could tell he was genuinely invested in the game. However, it seems like around 200 Dailies ago he kinda lost stuff (He had covered basically everything to do with the basics) to talk about so he just watches a replay and talks about it now without actually going in depth into strategy, or he focuses far too much on one aspect that doesn't make sense without looking at the grand scheme of things.  Also, he focuses on the broadest strokes when it comes to the game, never anything in-depth, just repeats the mechanics mantra he has been teaching for over two years now, says tons of things strategy-wise that are out of date, sometimes by months, and most importantly, just straight up doesn't seem interested in the game anymore. If someone asks which Dailies to watch to learn how to play they get directed to almost all older ones because the new ones just don't teach anything. 
 
I still have lots of respect for the guy, he just needs to take a break and review what his show should be about, because the direction it has taken has lost the interest of the audience.  It has become too much of a platform for his personality and the game feels secondary now.

#48 Posted by csl316 (8765 posts) -

@Ben_H: Actually, you just helped me realize exactly why I stopped watching. I couldn't quite put my finger on it.

Just looked at his blip profile: "About this series: Professional StarCraft player, shoutcaster, and stand-up comedian Sean Day[9] Plott offers his own whimsical mix of strategy, analysis, humor and life instruction 5 days a week on his live internet television show focused on video games."

Stand up comedian? Life instruction? Hmm...

#49 Edited by SirPsychoSexy (1330 posts) -

@EthanML: Husky is a great caster, ask anyone in the starcraft community and they will tell you the same. His play by play and excitement he brings to a cast is among the best. He obviously does not know as much about the game as an artosis or day9 or someone like that, but pair him up with an analytical caster and he does phenomenal. Day9 kind of tries to do the analytical style as well as the play by play excitement thing, which might be why I don't particularly like his casting.

#50 Posted by NaDannMaGoGo (338 posts) -

I personally cannot watch anything Day9 related anymore apart from some casts on MLG and so perhaps. I just don't like how he does his stuff any longer. But that's okay, because eventually you'll grow tired of a lot of people/casters. I only like listening to Wolf and Artosis casting Sc2.

I think Day9 is a great guy and someone with the right sense of professionalism, that deserves pretty much anything he gets though. He alone was able to carry some rough tournaments in the beginning, like MLG, where he once was able to bridge like over an hour of downtime. It's actually refreshing to have people like him, who try to be professional.

We got enough Incontrols and the like who get famous for bashing and ridiculing other guys. People dislike that Day9 isn't involved in SotG anymore? Well I bet he'd loved to join the show every now and then if it actually wouldn't be a "Incontrol says stupid stuff and bashes people for the laughs" show now.

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