Practice League: I feel like a horrible person

  • 68 results
  • 1
  • 2
#1 Edited by BombKareshi (996 posts) -

I had the strangest experience last night.
 
You see, after playing a lot of co-op vs A.I. (hard and very hard) with my friends to get the hang of StarCraft 2, I decided to try my hand against real people for the first time. I've been delaying this venture for a long time, essentially because I'm scared of human players. I'm worried that playing against the A.I. has taught me some bad habits and that real players with actual experience will make mincemeat out of me. So I thought I'd better make full use my 50 unranked matches in the Practice League. I play Protoss, by the way.
 
Anyway, my first 1 vs 1 was a complete joke. The computer has taught me to pump out an army as quickly as possible, so I did my usual thing and warped in two Gateways. I got a few Zealots, went for gas, built a Cybernetics Core and produced a few Sentries and Stalkers. With no sign of an incoming attack, and getting kind of claustrophobic not being able to scout, I decided to take the initiative and sent my primitive army to destroy the rocks that blocked in my base. In fact, I sent them all the way to the enemy's base, destroying rocks as I went.
 
Here's the thing. His army was practically non-existent. I think he might have had four or five Zealots. That's when it dawned on me: this player must have hardly played a versus game in his life. He was probably still figuring out how the game works. And here's my army at his doorstep, ready to obliterate his base. His death was swift and painless, but I still felt terrible. I kept thinking, "I hope I didn't just ruin this dude's StarCraft experience." I began to wonder if it's really OK for me to be in the practice league. Am I going to keep kicking beginner butt like this? It's hard on the conscience, man.
 
So I figured, if I'm gonna be playing with a bunch of beginners, I might as well team up with one against two others. That should even things up a little! So I played my first 2 vs 2 match. We were two Protoss against two Terrans. Pretty much the same thing happened. This time I had an expansion underway, but since my army was growing quicker than my Pylon production rate, I decided to sacrifice some of my dudes in an offensive. I destroyed the rocks, found the enemy and proceeded to lay waste to their lightly defended fortress. My ally assisted with a few Stalkers and a Colossus, but that was hardly necessary. I felt like a bully once again.
 
I'd like some guidance. Am I being a bully? Are my tactics what the community regards as "cheesing"? Or am I simply out of my league, so to speak? As a player somewhat experienced in versus A.I. combat, do I belong in the Practice League at all? I'm still hesitant to venture out into the wild, so I'd really like to use those 50 unranked matches. But if this is the kind of competition I can expect to face here, is it even worth it?

#2 Posted by PerryVandell (2103 posts) -

There's nothing wrong with what you're doing, though if things stay the way they are, you might want to consider skipping the practice league and go straight into placement matches. Word of warning: Practice League is set on normal speed while regular matches are set on faster (I think) so you might want to try a few AI games on faster if you haven't already so you're comfortable with the speed. Also, if you aren't cheesing (building only pylons and turrets next to the enemy's base) then you have nothing to feel bad about. People lose on Starcraft, and every other multiplayer game out there. It's their own fault if they decide to leave, not yours. Have fun!

#3 Posted by Vitor (2815 posts) -

I had the same fear of going into the multiplayer also - losing game after game isn't fun and, having had nor real RTS experience beforehard, I had no idea how to play. I practiced a lot against Hard and Very Hard AI on 1v1 matches and finally felt confident enough to get placed. My first 2 games were against players using proxy pylons and bunker rushes which I had never once encountered in Singleplayer or AI skirmishes.

The AI does not prepare you for the type of tactics people will use online. All it does is teach you how to manage you economy well. And if you're OK at that, you should probably feel comfortable in silver/gold league once placement ends.

#4 Posted by supermike6 (3556 posts) -

I had practiced and watched so much Starcraft beforehand that I went into Practice League expecting to need all 50 games and just started smokin' fools. Practice league will not make you any better at this point, just skip straight into placement matches. But be prepared, no matter how good you think you are doing in your placement matches, there will be a dude who comes along and absolutely destroys you. Make sure to watch that replay and figure out what he was doing right and what you were doing wrong. Good luck!

#5 Posted by BombKareshi (996 posts) -

Ooh, the idea of a proxy pylon or a bunker rush scares the crap out of me. I think I'm going to battle to master the micro/macro balance, because every time I focus on something minor, I forget or delay something important. I guess that's something a lot of new players find difficult.
 
One reason I might stay in the Practice League for a while longer is getting used to the speed. I've actually been chilling at Slow against the computer, and even then I sometimes get overwhelmed by the many things there are to do. Especially if ranked matches are played on Faster (why the hell is this done anyway – that speed is inhuman), I should probably play a few games on Normal to make the switchover more gradual.

#6 Edited by zels (206 posts) -
@BombKareshi: you should go with the "normal" speed straight away (you can try it against the ai first. Ps: "normal" = faster). No point in learning different speeds as you go along, it'll confuse you - just jump straight to it.
#7 Edited by TobbRobb (4589 posts) -

If you are just purely dominating practice league, you should move on. Mostly because you won't learn much by never losing and the different speed "and lack of protective rocks" is something you need to get used to rapidly. Also, I would feel like a dick too, if I only played people who are just starting out and crushing them, it's just not fun.
 
Also, bronze league players are NOT good. So the difference might be minimal. Low level games need no micro either, so just focus on army building and attacking. You will win. Learn a thing at a time, not everything immediatley. Micro is a bit harder when you are not used to the speed of things.

#8 Posted by Aus_azn (2224 posts) -
@BombKareshi said:
Ooh, the idea of a proxy pylon or a bunker rush scares the crap out of me. I think I'm going to battle to master the micro/macro balance, because every time I focus on something minor, I forget or delay something important. I guess that's something a lot of new players find difficult.  One reason I might stay in the Practice League for a while longer is getting used to the speed. I've actually been chilling at Slow against the computer, and even then I sometimes get overwhelmed by the many things there are to do. Especially if ranked matches are played on Faster (why the hell is this done anyway – that speed is inhuman), I should probably play a few games on Normal to make the switchover more gradual.
Sounds like a fine strategy. 
 
Yes, laddering is done on Faster, which is why APM becomes so critical in higher levels of play. Just crash out on Practice League first to get used to Normal, then go back to AI-ing for Faster. I can barely beat an AI on Hard, so...
#9 Posted by ajamafalous (11942 posts) -

Hell, maybe it's just coincidental that your first two matches were rolls. I'd say play at least 7-10 more Practice League, and if you dominate like 80% of them, you're good to move on.

#10 Posted by BombKareshi (996 posts) -
@TobbRobb said:
Also, bronze league players are NOT good. So the difference might be minimal.
Good point. I guess I'm so terrified of playing against humans that I subconsciously assume them all to be professional-level bulldozers. Obviously not everyone is like that, and since Bronze is the bottom 20% of the player base, I should at least stand a chance.
 
@ajamafalous: Oh, I don't intend to base my decision to leave Practice League on a mere two matches. Besides, it looks like I'm sticking around to get a feel for the speed.
 
@zels: @Aus_azn: I honestly can't say the thought of playing on Faster (or even Fast) appeals to me at all. I hate feeling rushed in any game, and especially StarCraft, which has so many opportunities for micro-management. Still, I might feel different about it once I get used to higher speeds. It doesn't look like I have a choice in the matter if I want to play against humans anyway.
#11 Posted by baldgye (756 posts) -

Ok, have I guys got a replay for you... 
 
back when I was a silver nub on EU I activcated my NA acc... and I got the 50 practrice games and was like well hell this'll be fun... 
 
1st game; its PvZ.. and rocks everywhere and its that old 1v1 with close air.. so I VR rush becasue its not like I have to worry about RR or 8pool etc... my 3 VR's get to his base and he has 6  drones... and nothing else... had just expanded and put his pool down at his natural... he had nothing... 
 
2nd game you guys need to watch the replay... PvT

#12 Posted by Aus_azn (2224 posts) -
@BombKareshi said:
@zels: @Aus_azn: I honestly can't say the thought of playing on Faster (or even Fast) appeals to me at all. I hate feeling rushed in any game, and especially StarCraft, which has so many opportunities for micro-management. Still, I might feel different about it once I get used to higher speeds. It doesn't look like I have a choice in the matter if I want to play against humans anyway.
Custom games sound more like your cup o' tea.
 
Honestly, Faster isn't that bad. Trust me, once you're used to it, you'll NEVER want to go back.
#13 Posted by baldgye (756 posts) -

yeah, honestly if you wana play in the practice league and make itr worth while just use it to paractce one build thats a good solid build... eg if you play as protoss just master the timings of a 4gate... becasue its a little slower it gives you chance to really pay attention to your income and food.
 
...and then when you feel like you have it down just jump into your placement games... and hell if you loose all your practice games you'll be put into bronze which will help you get better anyway.

#14 Posted by Moztacular (467 posts) -

@BombKareshi: i wouldn't recommend hanging in practice league to adjust to the speed, as another earlier post mentioned practice league is played at "normal" while regular ladder is on "faster" speed. I highly discourage trying to play on any speed below "faster" even if it makes you uncomfortable; you're only teaching yourself bad habits and slowing down your overall mechanics and playstyle by playing against AI on "slow" and trying to wade through practice league games at "normal" speed. I think many would agree that starting out on slower speeds is only going to cause you more frustration down the line as you will be completely unsure of the all important timings and game sense that comes with playing at the standard "faster" speed. Just my 2 cents, good luck and do whatever is comfortable for you, sc2 is a great game but I can only imagine how it feels to be trying to scale the barrier of entry around this game nearly a year after release.

#15 Posted by BenderUnit22 (1477 posts) -

Yeah, practice league is really just meant for people who literally haven't played a versus match before, if you already have the mechanics down (although you should generally go pylon, gateway, pylon, cybernetics core), you're just gonna steam-roll these people. Best to do your placement matches and play in a proper league.

#16 Posted by TobbRobb (4589 posts) -
@BombKareshi: Are you playing on EU or NA? because the lower 20% of EU are a lot better than NA, we seem to have a higher skill rate per person.
Faster really isn't that bad, and you NEED to get used to it. It really is no use even adjusting to the lower speeds, go faster in a few AI/Custom games, you'll adjust quickly.
Stressing never helped anyone, if it goes to fast, just focus on the important parts "macro/eco" and ignore the micro til you feel comfy. Micro isn't needed anyhow until plat.
#17 Posted by csl316 (8359 posts) -

Meh, I skipped the practice league entirely. Honestly, if you know how to play an RTS you might as well start laddering.

I don't know the status of the practice league after the game's been out a year, but the matchmaking is reasonably good. Don't fear. Even if you get placed in Bronze, there's no shame. You'll just get moved up quickly and have people accuse you of playing on a bully account.

#18 Edited by BombKareshi (996 posts) -
@Aus_azn said:

Custom games sound more like your cup o' tea.  Honestly, Faster isn't that bad. Trust me, once you're used to it, you'll NEVER want to go back.

Yeah, custom games are my cup o' tea, but I'm trying to move out of my comfort zone a ltitle.
 
My friends and I decided to drop the speed in our custom games so that we could focus on trying out units and that sort of thing, and we just kind of sticked to it. I'm sure I'll make the transition eventually. I'm playing Normal now in the Practice League and it's not all that different. I can imagine cranking the juice another notch or two.
 
@TobbRobb said: 

@BombKareshi: Are you playing on EU or NA? because the lower 20% of EU are a lot better than NA, we seem to have a higher skill rate per person.

I would assume EU, since I'm in South Africa, but I honestly don't know where to look to find that out.
#19 Posted by baldgye (756 posts) -

u wont me on EU you'll probally be on the Aus servers

#20 Posted by Aus_azn (2224 posts) -

For you blokes on Practice League still...
 
I just got placed in Silver League for 2v2, but I still have 44 matches left in Practice League. Will my 2v2 wins show up on the snapshot, or do I have to leave Practice League for them to show up?
 
I want my front page to have Kerrigan on it now, that's more important than my two wins, but that doesn't happen until my wins get displayed!

#21 Posted by BombKareshi (996 posts) -

Here's a little update. I've had a couple more matches, and I'm glad that I decided to linger in the Practice League for a while longer.
 
Most of them were easy as pie once again, but two of my matches were more interesting. One of my 2v2s had me up against another more competent player, who had me more than a little worried with his mass Marines. Luckily, the Protoss don't mind being outnumbered, and as soon as I added air support to my army, I was able to clean things up pretty well.
 
The other more difficult game I think I might have lost had the other guy's connection not dropped. I watched his replay and he had four Void Rays en route to my base, which had at most 2 Stalkers after I had unsuccessfully assaulted his base. He had a very risky build, though, going for as many as two expansions before even producing any fighting units (he was probably counting on the rocks to keep me out). I imagine on something other than a Novice map, I could have scouted his base with a Probe and spotted that he was up to something, but for now I think I'll prioritize anti-air (or simply air) in my Practice League games in case somebody else that's more aware decides to rush air at me. On the bright side, after that, I don't feel like such a horrible person anymore.
 
As for the speed, I played a Co-op Versus A.I. with another player and that was on a higher speed, Fast or Faster – I'm not sure, but when I played my next practice match and the speed dropped back to Normal, I was actually a little frustrated with it. :-)

#22 Edited by baldgye (756 posts) -
@Aus_azn said:

For you blokes on Practice League still...  I just got placed in Silver League for 2v2, but I still have 44 matches left in Practice League. Will my 2v2 wins show up on the snapshot, or do I have to leave Practice League for them to show up?  I want my front page to have Kerrigan on it now, that's more important than my two wins, but that doesn't happen until my wins get displayed!

practice league wins show up in your profile untill you go into your placement games at which point they are replaced with actual league wins
 
@BombKareshi said:
Here's a little update. I've had a couple more matches, and I'm glad that I decided to linger in the Practice League for a while longer.  Most of them were easy as pie once again, but two of my matches were more interesting. One of my 2v2s had me up against another more competent player, who had me more than a little worried with his mass Marines. Luckily, the Protoss don't mind being outnumbered, and as soon as I added air support to my army, I was able to clean things up pretty well.  The other more difficult game I think I might have lost had the other guy's connection not dropped. I watched his replay and he had four Void Rays en route to my base, which had at most 2 Stalkers after I had unsuccessfully assaulted his base. He had a very risky build, though, going for as many as two expansions before even producing any fighting units (he was probably counting on the rocks to keep me out). I imagine on something other than a Novice map, I could have scouted his base with a Probe and spotted that he was up to something, but for now I think I'll prioritize anti-air (or simply air) in my Practice League games in case somebody else that's more aware decides to rush air at me. On the bright side, after that, I don't feel like such a horrible person anymore.  As for the speed, I played a Co-op Versus A.I. with another player and that was on a higher speed, Fast or Faster – I'm not sure, but when I played my next practice match and the speed dropped back to Normal, I was actually a little frustrated with it. :-)

If you're playign as protoss and want easy wins in practice leagues just 4gate.. put your pylons on the high ground next to the rocks and you dont even have to kill your own rocks...
 ..when I was messing around in the practice league I went for a 4gate but instead of making units prior to warpgate I just took my natural..
#23 Posted by BombKareshi (996 posts) -
@baldgye said:
If you're playign as protoss and want easy wins in practice leagues just 4gate.. put your pylons on the high ground next to the rocks and you dont even have to kill your own rocks...  ..when I was messing around in the practice league I went for a 4gate but instead of making units prior to warpgate I just took my natural..
Well, I'm not looking for "easy wins" as such, I'm just trying to get some experience. Warp Gates are something I think I should leave for later when I'm better at macro. Even with queuing I sometimes catch my Gateways not doing anything.
#24 Posted by baldgye (756 posts) -
@BombKareshi said:
@baldgye said:
If you're playign as protoss and want easy wins in practice leagues just 4gate.. put your pylons on the high ground next to the rocks and you dont even have to kill your own rocks...  ..when I was messing around in the practice league I went for a 4gate but instead of making units prior to warpgate I just took my natural..
Well, I'm not looking for "easy wins" as such, I'm just trying to get some experience. Warp Gates are something I think I should leave for later when I'm better at macro. Even with queuing I sometimes catch my Gateways not doing anything.
4gate and 3gate robo are builds you need to be able to do as a Brotoss player... 4gate is kinda shit these days but is still very good in PvP and will help you in bronze league so much
#25 Posted by BombKareshi (996 posts) -
@baldgye: I'll keep that in mind. Thanks.
#26 Posted by BombKareshi (996 posts) -
@baldgye said:
u wont me on EU you'll probally be on the Aus servers
I'm thinking I'm on the European servers after all since I keep playing Finns and Germans.
#27 Posted by Ben_H (3336 posts) -
@BombKareshi said:
@baldgye said:
If you're playign as protoss and want easy wins in practice leagues just 4gate.. put your pylons on the high ground next to the rocks and you dont even have to kill your own rocks...  ..when I was messing around in the practice league I went for a 4gate but instead of making units prior to warpgate I just took my natural..
Well, I'm not looking for "easy wins" as such, I'm just trying to get some experience. Warp Gates are something I think I should leave for later when I'm better at macro. Even with queuing I sometimes catch my Gateways not doing anything.
Start using them now so you can get a feeling for cooldown.  Plus it will help you more with macro and surviving against attacks.  It is basically a requirement for protoss.  If you don't want to use it, maybe think about playing Terran until you feel comfortable.
#28 Posted by Aus_azn (2224 posts) -
@baldgye said:
@BombKareshi said:
@baldgye said:
If you're playign as protoss and want easy wins in practice leagues just 4gate.. put your pylons on the high ground next to the rocks and you dont even have to kill your own rocks...  ..when I was messing around in the practice league I went for a 4gate but instead of making units prior to warpgate I just took my natural..
Well, I'm not looking for "easy wins" as such, I'm just trying to get some experience. Warp Gates are something I think I should leave for later when I'm better at macro. Even with queuing I sometimes catch my Gateways not doing anything.
4gate and 3gate robo are builds you need to be able to do as a Brotoss player... 4gate is kinda shit these days but is still very good in PvP and will help you in bronze league so much
Warp gates are essential for the Protoss player. There is no alternative. Plus, units warp in much faster than you can gateway them in.
 
@BombKareshi said:
As for the speed, I played a Co-op Versus A.I. with another player and that was on a higher speed, Fast or Faster – I'm not sure, but when I played my next practice match and the speed dropped back to Normal, I was actually a little frustrated with it. :-)
I believe that Co-op v. AI are all on Faster. I might be wrong.
 
@baldgye said:
@Aus_azn said:

For you blokes on Practice League still...  I just got placed in Silver League for 2v2, but I still have 44 matches left in Practice League. Will my 2v2 wins show up on the snapshot, or do I have to leave Practice League for them to show up?  I want my front page to have Kerrigan on it now, that's more important than my two wins, but that doesn't happen until my wins get displayed!

practice league wins show up in your profile untill you go into your placement games at which point they are replaced with actual league wins
I was talking about on the profile snapshot right when you click your picture. I just opted out of practice league (since I have no plans to do 1v1, ever), and everything is showing up nicely.
#29 Posted by BombKareshi (996 posts) -
@Aus_azn said:
Warp gates are essential for the Protoss player. There is no alternative. Plus, units warp in much faster than you can gateway them in. 
@Ben_H said:
Start using them now so you can get a feeling for cooldown.  Plus it will help you more with macro and surviving against attacks.  It is basically a requirement for protoss.  If you don't want to use it, maybe think about playing Terran until you feel comfortable. 
Okay, I'm sold. I've been nothing but losing against Zerg players, and judging from my excess minerals, I'm not producing units quickly enough. Of course this might have as much to do with having only 2 Gateways as with not upgrading to Warp Gates, but I'm willing to consider anything that cuts down production time at this point. It feels like there's nothing I can do to stop these guys from taking over the map.
 
Suffice to say, after having my butt glamorously handed to me on a silver platter a couple of times, I don't feel guilty about playing in the Practice League anymore. In fact, I'm starting to wonder if it isn't just teaching me bad habits while I'm getting creamed by players who are exploiting the system. Aside from the Normal speed, the novice maps are also making me play with rocks at every ramp. This makes early scouting impossible! And all he needs to do is send over a complimentary Overlord.
#30 Edited by baldgye (756 posts) -

@ Aus_azn
what are you talking about warp gates for? 3gate robo dsnt mean you never bother to research warpgate... wtf
 
@BombKareshi
Yeah I guess it seems obvious to me but maybe not a n00by :P 
 So here is the standard protoss opener, the number I post are for the food count you should be at when you build them, bearing in mind you should never stop making probes (untill you hit about 32 per base)
 
9plyon
13gateway
14 assimilator (taking your gas)
18 cybernetics core
*as soon as the core is finished get warpgate and use your chrono boost on it.
21 zelot
 
and then from here you can choose to go which ever tech you like, I personally much perfer 3gate robo to 4gate, but 4gate is a build you will need to know how to do and how to pull off, this is the build for a 4gate;

  • 9 Pylon
  • 13 Gateway + Probe sent to scout
  • 14 Assimilator
  • 16 Pylon
  • 17 Cybernetics Core
  • 18 Zealot
  • 22 Stalker
  • 24 Warpgate research
  • 26 Gateway
  • 26 Gateway
  • 26 Gateway
  • 26 Pylon
  • 26 Proxy Pylon
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/4_Warpgate_Rush
 
but what ever build you end up doing you 100000000% always ALWAYS need warpgate... hope that helps! :)
#31 Posted by Aus_azn (2224 posts) -
@baldgye said:
@ Aus_azn
what are you talking about warp gates for? 3gate robo dsnt mean you never bother to research warpgate... wtf
Huh? I was reaffirming your statement. You can't play Protoss without Warpgating...Every build uses it.
#32 Posted by baldgye (756 posts) -
@Aus_azn said:
@baldgye said:
@ Aus_azn
what are you talking about warp gates for? 3gate robo dsnt mean you never bother to research warpgate... wtf
Huh? I was reaffirming your statement. You can't play Protoss without Warpgating...Every build uses it.
yeah, so why mention it lol?
#33 Edited by BombKareshi (996 posts) -

Somebody actually 5-gated me. Twice. -_-
 
Anyhow, I think I've got the Warp Gate thing down now. At least, I've only discovered how useful they are, and I now understand why I can't go without 'em. Maybe the next time I get up close and personal with a Zerg player, I won't get overrun as easily now.
 
Incidentally, I've found that I prefer team games (2 versus 2) to plain old one-on-ones.

#34 Posted by baldgye (756 posts) -
@BombKareshi said:
Somebody actually 5 gated me. Twice. -_-  Anyhow, I think I've got the Warp Gate thing down now. At least, I've only discovered how useful they are, and I now understand why I can't go without 'em. Maybe the next time I get up close and personal with a Zerg player, I won't get overrun as easily now. Incidentally, I've found that I prefer team games (2 versus 2) to plain old one-on-ones.
2v2's are alot less stressful than 1v1s and give you pretty solid practice for just mashing out builds... but a 5gate isn't a build and a 4gate would crush it :P
#35 Edited by BombKareshi (996 posts) -
@baldgye said:

5gate isn't a build and a 4gate would crush it :P

I think he only got away with it because we're playing novice maps and there's the whole destructible-rocks-blocking-the-ramp-thing.
#36 Posted by baldgye (756 posts) -
@BombKareshi said:
@baldgye said:

5gate isn't a build and a 4gate would crush it :P

I think he only got away with it because we're playing novice maps and there's the whole destructible-rocks-blocking-the-ramp-thing.
but even then it makes no sense becasue you can't produce from 5gates all the time on one base ;) if I where you just learn the 4gate build (assuming you play as protoss) and just keep doing it untill you have it nailed in pratice league and then go for your placement games :)
#37 Posted by Thule (692 posts) -

@baldgye said:

@BombKareshi said:
@baldgye said:

5gate isn't a build and a 4gate would crush it :P

I think he only got away with it because we're playing novice maps and there's the whole destructible-rocks-blocking-the-ramp-thing.
but even then it makes no sense becasue you can't produce from 5gates all the time on one base ;) if I where you just learn the 4gate build (assuming you play as protoss) and just keep doing it untill you have it nailed in pratice league and then go for your placement games :)

He wasn't the one 5-gating, he got 5-gated. Also your advice, though good, is rather irrelevant, considering we're talking about games played in the practice league.

Also, I suggest just skipping the practice league. It's never going to teach you anything that custom games against the Computer/your friends is gonna teach you.

#38 Posted by NekuCTR (1663 posts) -

I had never played a single Vs. match when I first jumped in, but after 10 games of getting pummeled I pretty much figured out that the way to win in PL is to just rush air. I didn't loose a match the rest of my practice league and it taught me some valuable lessons on macro. Basically what I'm saying is that even if your getting destroyed your still learning things (hopefully) unless your some stay at home mom who has never played a computer game before, and although I wish there was a way to help that crowd sadly there isn't.

#39 Posted by BombKareshi (996 posts) -
@baldgye said:
but even then it makes no sense becasue you can't produce from 5gates all the time on one base ;)
Well, it was a team game, so I can only assume his partner, a Terran focused mostly on mining, was gifting him resources. He was pumping out Stalkers like some kind of demon.
 
@baldgye said:
if I where you just learn the 4gate build (assuming you play as protoss) and just keep doing it untill you have it nailed in pratice league and then go for your placement games :)
I intend to practice this build, but how important are the exact numbers? I really can't say I fancy the idea of playing off a written instruction set. Also, so far I've liked to go robo as well against Zerg players so I can deploy Colossi for defence, but I haven't done that in a 1v1 yet.
#40 Posted by baldgye (756 posts) -
@Thule said:

@baldgye said:

@BombKareshi said:
@baldgye said:

5gate isn't a build and a 4gate would crush it :P

I think he only got away with it because we're playing novice maps and there's the whole destructible-rocks-blocking-the-ramp-thing.
but even then it makes no sense becasue you can't produce from 5gates all the time on one base ;) if I where you just learn the 4gate build (assuming you play as protoss) and just keep doing it untill you have it nailed in pratice league and then go for your placement games :)

He wasn't the one 5-gating, he got 5-gated. Also your advice, though good, is rather irrelevant, considering we're talking about games played in the practice league.

Also, I suggest just skipping the practice league. It's never going to teach you anything that custom games against the Computer/your friends is gonna teach you.

ehh... if you're totally new to the game the slower pace of practice league will help you get used to what order and at what food you have to build things... and while yeah a 4gate 'rush' isn't very good on a map with alot of rocks its still a good way to get the foundations down, as alot of people who ask my help on my friends list who are in bronze just can't get to grips with when they should be building things.
 
@BombKareshi said:
@baldgye said:
but even then it makes no sense becasue you can't produce from 5gates all the time on one base ;)
Well, it was a team game, so I can only assume his partner, a Terran focused mostly on mining, was gifting him resources. He was pumping out Stalkers like some kind of demon.
 
@baldgye said:
if I where you just learn the 4gate build (assuming you play as protoss) and just keep doing it untill you have it nailed in pratice league and then go for your placement games :)
I intend to practice this build, but how important are the exact numbers? I really can't say I fancy the idea of playing off a written instruction set. Also, so far I've liked to go robo as well against Zerg players so I can deploy Colossi for defence, but I haven't done that in a 1v1 yet.

The numbers are very important, sc2 is all about having a build order be as optimal as possible (hence the numbers) and then having a strong strategy sense... once you rememeber the numbers you'll be able to do a 4gate without much thought, and its a fundamental build. And at your level it wont really matter what race you 4gate against as it will be strong against all 3 match-ups as long as you constantally produce units from your warp gates.
 
here are some video's you should watch to help you;
day9 for beginers
day9 hotkeys and mouse secrets
#41 Posted by BombKareshi (996 posts) -
@baldgye said:
The numbers are very important, sc2 is all about having a build order be as optimal as possible (hence the numbers) and then having a strong strategy sense... once you rememeber the numbers you'll be able to do a 4gate without much thought, and its a fundamental build. And at your level it wont really matter what race you 4gate against as it will be strong against all 3 match-ups as long as you constantally produce units from your warp gates.
 
here are some video's you should watch to help you;
day9 for beginers
day9 hotkeys and mouse secrets
Thanks, I'll have a look at those videos the next time I'm free.
 
I still resent that the game relies so much on being able to do a series of clicks off a predetermined checklist as quickly as possible. I hate feeling so restricted in my options, but I guess there's no way around that. I'm worried that this might take some of the fun out of the game for me, but I'll hold on to the hope that the fun will come back once I pass this stage and get to the real strategy.
#42 Posted by baldgye (756 posts) -
@BombKareshi said:
@baldgye said:
The numbers are very important, sc2 is all about having a build order be as optimal as possible (hence the numbers) and then having a strong strategy sense... once you rememeber the numbers you'll be able to do a 4gate without much thought, and its a fundamental build. And at your level it wont really matter what race you 4gate against as it will be strong against all 3 match-ups as long as you constantally produce units from your warp gates.
 
here are some video's you should watch to help you;
day9 for beginers
day9 hotkeys and mouse secrets
Thanks, I'll have a look at those videos the next time I'm free.  I still resent that the game relies so much on being able to do a series of clicks off a predetermined checklist as quickly as possible. I hate feeling so restricted in my options, but I guess there's no way around that. I'm worried that this might take some of the fun out of the game for me, but I'll hold on to the hope that the fun will come back once I pass this stage and get to the real strategy.
Thats really not at all true lol... but yeah there is a barrier to entry but thanks to the community its very easy to over-come
#43 Posted by Zolfe (262 posts) -

dunno, if somebody already said this since im too lazy to read the thread, but don't play in the practice league. I have no idea why Blizzard implemented it. it is nothing like playing the actual game ( unless they changed it since release)

#44 Posted by Skytylz (4031 posts) -
@baldgye: I'm not a big fan of numbers for build orders, I'm more of a feel guy and I have an idea of when I want to do stuff.  I 9 pylon 13 gate and after that it's just constant probe production and pylon production with the buildings I want as I can afford them.  I'm not great, but I was platinum before I quit playing alot recently and got knocked to gold. 
#45 Posted by baldgye (756 posts) -
@Skytylz said:
@baldgye: I'm not a big fan of numbers for build orders, I'm more of a feel guy and I have an idea of when I want to do stuff.  I 9 pylon 13 gate and after that it's just constant probe production and pylon production with the buildings I want as I can afford them.  I'm not great, but I was platinum before I quit playing alot recently and got knocked to gold. 
Thats nice and all, but learning how to do a builds that are viable is essential to building up that 'feeling'.. I personally do not 4gate anymore really.. in PvP especially becasue its just not something I like doing, but you need to know how to do it and at what times you can push with it so you can be fully prepaird to defend agaist it later on.
I'd recomend someone who's just learning to game builds over all else becasue its just such an important thing of all 'standard' RTS games from CnC to TA... and when you've found your feet and are fully comftable 4gating thats when you can play around... 
 
I have a bunch of friends in bronze, and its both comical and sad to see them 'feeling' there way through games, becasue they havn't bothered to learn builds they have no idea about timing attacks and when what I'm doing is weak and when its strong.  It's just a fundamental aspect of the game and knowing and being able to do it will help you get better at playing.
#46 Posted by onimonkii (2432 posts) -
@BombKareshi said:
Thanks, I'll have a look at those videos the next time I'm free.  I still resent that the game relies so much on being able to do a series of clicks off a predetermined checklist as quickly as possible. I hate feeling so restricted in my options, but I guess there's no way around that. I'm worried that this might take some of the fun out of the game for me, but I'll hold on to the hope that the fun will come back once I pass this stage and get to the real strategy.
don't think if that way, because it's not the case at all. a build covers like 1/4 of the match at most unless it's a rush designed to kill them in those first 10 minutes of in-game time.
 
what will actually "restrict" you is when you scout what your opponent is doing, and realizing you can't keep going 'x' against 'y' and be cost efficient.
#47 Edited by BombKareshi (996 posts) -
@baldgye: It's kind of funny that you're advocating numbers when the first video you linked, Day[9] explains that it's not about numbers and formulas but about a mental checklist. This is a natural process that I understand and can identify with, and I can see how this leads to what we call "builds" (the dude even demonstrates this). I think this is a much better way to learn than copying step-by-step from a list of instructions that one has memorized, as it allows a newcomer to understand the thinking behind the clicking. Of course, your suggestion of learning the numbers is probably more advisable for people who struggle to grasp the concept.
 
@onimonkii: You're right. Having 4-gated a couple of times, I see that now. Scouting, however, is something I could probably master only once I'm out of the Practice League. Speaking of which, I've only got some 20 unranked games left, and given the rate my brother and I are 2v2ing through them, it probably won't be long.
#48 Posted by GS_Dan (1402 posts) -

@Vitor said:

I had the same fear of going into the multiplayer also - losing game after game isn't fun and, having had nor real RTS experience beforehard, I had no idea how to play. I practiced a lot against Hard and Very Hard AI on 1v1 matches and finally felt confident enough to get placed. My first 2 games were against players using proxy pylons and bunker rushes which I had never once encountered in Singleplayer or AI skirmishes.

I had exactly the same thing happen to me. My first 2 matches were against the same bastard doing cannon rushes.

#49 Posted by SgtGrumbles (1024 posts) -

As long as they learn from their defeats I don't see a problem.

#50 Posted by baldgye (756 posts) -
@BombKareshi said:
@baldgye: It's kind of funny that you're advocating numbers when the first video you linked, Day[9] explains that it's not about numbers and formulas but about a mental checklist. This is a natural process that I understand and can identify with, and I can see how this leads to what we call "builds" (the dude even demonstrates this). I think this is a much better way to learn than copying step-by-step from a list of instructions that one has memorized, as it allows a newcomer to understand the thinking behind the clicking. Of course, your suggestion of learning the numbers is probably more advisable for people who struggle to grasp the concept.
 
@onimonkii: You're right. Having 4-gated a couple of times, I see that now. Scouting, however, is something I could probably master only once I'm out of the Practice League. Speaking of which, I've only got some 20 unranked games left, and given the rate my brother and I are 2v2ing through them, it probably won't be long.
Well yeah I agree with day9, but you still need to know the build, in order for it to be... a build :P
 
But yeah one thing to note about scouting... is if you are going to 4gate no matter what, sending out an early probe to scout is pointless, unless you're going to gas steal...

This edit will also create new pages on Giant Bomb for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Giant Bomb users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.