As one of the folks that managed to make it into the SCII beta through sheer luck, I thought I'd try to pass some of the savings on to you by answering any questions you may have about the current state of SCII multiplayer and the new Battle.net. Of course, creating this thread right before I leave for work is not the best idea, but I'll do my best to tell you everything I can about the game. This goes without saying, but anyone else is welcome to jump in with answers or to tell me that I'm wrong.
Fun fact: Overlords are no longer detectors. I was unfortunate enough to not realize this until AFTER the Dark Templars killed half my workers.
StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty
Game » consists of 10 releases. Released Jul 27, 2010
The first chapter in the StarCraft II trilogy focuses on the struggles of the Terran race, as seen through the eyes of Commander Jim Raynor, leader of the rebel group Raynor's Raiders.
SCII: Ask Me Anything
Unfortunately i have not played star-craft 1 in a few years. Will it have the same kind of feeling as the first one? Have not seen Any screenshots or videos of this beta yet so this is why i'm asking :S
What use does the Thor serve now? It seems to me it's there for novelty...
Battlecruisers for the role of 'end-game' highest tier unit, and are by far not as limiting as Thor being an air unit an all.
Maybe the fact Thors deliver their damage up front instead of 8x an attack is what makes em better for single target damage. But I wouldn't know :-(
" As someone who has never played starcraft (or any RTS for that matter) would you say that it's approachable enough for me to understand what's going on without having my mind scared shitless? "Well, yes and no. Obviously just jumping into multiplayer is a bad idea because there are a lot of layers you need to understand before you can really start to play. I'd say it's about as approachable as Street Fighter IV, with easy to understand basic rules and tons of high level complexity underneath. Your best bet would be to find a friend to teach you in a 1v1 setting. Just start slow and don't worry about learning things like DT/Phase rushes o_O
@Ciffy said:
" if overlords aren't detectors, what do the zerg use as a replacement (ie how do they see observers and DTs, etc)? "
Once you upgrade your Hatchery to a Lair, you can evolve Overlords into Overseers for 50 minerals each. Once they evolve they lose the ability to transport and spawn creep. Instead they become detectors and have the ability to spawn a Changeling that can mimic the base unit of one of your opponents (Zergling, Marine or Zealot) with the enemy's colors.
@CornontheCobbe said:
Unfortunately i have not played star-craft 1 in a few years. Will it have the same kind of feeling as the first one? Have not seen Any screenshots or videos of this beta yet so this is why i'm asking :S "
Dude, it's Starcraft. Natural build orders and hotkeys have changed (pretty much anything from the right side of the keyboard has moved to the left side. The hotkey for Probes is now "e") and forget everything you thought you knew about Zerg. Hydras are tier 2 now and use up 2 supply. In the end though it's basically SC1 with a lot more micro at lower development tiers. You can't get away with Zergling/Hydra, Zealot/Dragoon, Marine/Medic spam. Most units have active abilities so you need to pay attention.
@NoXious said:
" @StarvingGamer:
What use does the Thor serve now? It seems to me it's there for novelty...Battlecruisers for the role of 'end-game' highest tier unit, and are by far not as limiting as Thor being an air unit an all.Maybe the fact Thors deliver their damage up front instead of 8x an attack is what makes em better for single target damage. But I wouldn't know :-( "
Haven't messed around with the Thor yet (Terrans were my least favorite race in SC1 and it seems I'm carrying that tradition forward) but I'll try to put a few through the motions next time I'm on. One thing to keep in mind is the synergy of sticking to a single core unit type for Terrans (Infantry, Land Vehicles or Air Vehicles) since they all come out of different facilities and have different weapon and armor upgrades.
" @StarvingGamer: Which button is "ALL UNITS" "Heh, you don't want that button. Not unless you're desperate and need your SCVs to do your fighting for you.
What about damage types (normal, explosive, pierce?), unit sizes and armor/attack upgrades, is the basic arithmetic behind attacks and damage the same, is it displayed in game at all?
What about Mutalisk - micro? Is it possible to bunch them up in one spot with an overlord and do all that attack, move, patrol spam to make them shoot faster and stuff. In general: how much does turning delay one's shooting, is there any way to exploit/avoid the turning animation like in the original.
Why didn't blizzard contrast the units more against the background? IMHO SC2 is not as suited for public watching as SC is. Your thoughts on SC as a spectator sport?
Damage is probably displayed, but I haven't been paying heavy attention to it. Most of it follows pretty standard logic. Some units are squishy but fast, some are beefy but slow.
You're askin some Pro level stuff about muta micro that I'm not honestly equipped to answer. I can tell you that air units in general will clump on movement and disperse into formation once they sit idle. Stacked muta doesn't seem to be as overpowered, because similar air units on all sides will stack in a similar fashion.
On viewing quality, if you've been watching streams or capture footage, it really doesn't stand up at all to the ingame graphics. This game is beautiful top to bottom, and I've had no problems at all picking out units on visual inspection from any race. This game better than any other Blizz RTS is designed for viewing pleasure. Custom games can support both spectators and referees. I think with the built in ladder options and the custom game options, SC2 will have a long and strong life as a professional spectator sport.
Are there any unlimited minerals maps? If so does filling the entire map with protoss cannons still work? Can you still send a ghost to a friendly base, un-allie your self with them and launch a nuke then re-allie and laugh as they wonder what the fuck just happened? Can the zerg still infect a terran command center and produce those explodey guys?
" What about damage types (normal, explosive, pierce?), unit sizes and armor/attack upgrades, is the basic arithmetic behind attacks and damage the same, is it displayed in game at all? What about Mutalisk - micro? Is it possible to bunch them up in one spot with an overlord and do all that attack, move, patrol spam to make them shoot faster and stuff. In general: how much does turning delay one's shooting, is there any way to exploit/avoid the turning animation like in the original. Why didn't blizzard contrast the units more against the background? IMHO SC2 is not as suited for public watching as SC is. Your thoughts on SC as a spectator sport? "As far as I can tell, the base damage a unit deals has been standardized. It is displayed as a number in the tooltip window when you mouse over the unit's attack. Certain types of units also deal additional damage against different unit types. For example (and I'm making this all up) an Immortal's damage may be displayed in the tooltip as:
Damage: 17
Damage vs. Heavy Units: +34
or something like that.
I haven't messed around with Mutas very much yet but I'll check on that sometime later today. Same thing with the turning/shooting delay. I haven't noticed anything major but I've been sticking to smaller units primarily.
As far as SC2 as spectator sport, while it's true that the colors don't pop quite as much as they used to, each unit still has a very striking silhouette that is easily identifiable. In the end, I feel that what it really comes down to is the quality of the announcers. A good announcer will help guide your eyes to the relevant points of action. I've greatly enjoyed watching the various battle reports published by Blizzard and did not have any problems keeping up with everything going on.
@FartyMcNarly said:
" Are there any unlimited minerals maps? If so does filling the entire map with protoss cannons still work? Can you still send a ghost to a friendly base, un-allie your self with them and launch a nuke then re-allie and laugh as they wonder what the fuck just happened? Can the zerg still infect a terran command center and produce those explodey guys? "
Right now the Beta is only using the Blizzard-made ladder maps. Once custom maps start coming out, I'm sure there will be a BGH on day one. Also, you're going to reach an on-screen unit cap just like you did in the original SC. I don't know what that cap is but I'm sure it exists. I haven't played around with custom games enough to see if you have any freedom to ally/unally mid-battle but I'll test it out later. I don't believe Zerg have the ability to infest Command Centers any more, but they can corrupt any building to shut down production.
No heroes in this game, unless you count some of the limited units. Protoss can only have one mothership, Zerg will probably only have one Queen per hatch, etc." Do you have new heroes at your disposal? "
@Donos said:
" Is it reasonably possible to compete without hotkeys (aside from grouping)? I hate hotkeys in all circumstances. "
Grouping is a must, but you can probably get away without using most hotkeys. The ones I quickly memorized are the build worker for each race, build food, and that's about it. Besides attack move orders of course.
@onimonkii said:
" as a c&c player would terran be the best race for me to start with, having never played the original sc? "
Probably. Terran is the most classic in terms of RTS style, build supply depots and barracks. I would recommend for all newcomers to play a custom game against the CPU. They're stupid easy, but it lets you learn the tech trees and practice your macro.
1. Is there any hope for someone who hasn't played starcraft since starcraft 1 came out? Can I win and feel all smug about it or will I just get a crazy korean and get my ass handed to me in most matches?
2. Are there any team v team maps? If so, how big can the teams be?
3. Is it fun? Like 3 x $60 fun.
From the battle reports/live streams I've been watching, there definitely has been an increase in low tier fights and micro and a lot less focus on turtling. Is there still a possibility for a tech rush at the start to counter some low tier attacks?
Also, I've seen a lot of new terrain stuff happening... Such as the Xel'Naga towers and destructible rocks, as well as the general formation of the map... Is there an increase in units that can jump terrain levels and is there a necessity in those units?
Thanks!
" @kerikxi: i meant heroes like jim raynor, kerrigan, zeratul and/or new ones. "Not in multiplayer, no.
@SSbabel said:
" I loved starcraft will i enjoy starcraft2? "
Yes.
@Bellum said:
" Are there critters? Can you make them explode? "
Haven't seen critters, but I did blow up a statue.
@Wunder_ said:
" From the battle reports/live streams I've been watching, there definitely has been an increase in low tier fights and micro and a lot less focus on turtling. Is there still a possibility for a tech rush at the start to counter some low tier attacks? Also, I've seen a lot of new terrain stuff happening... Such as the Xel'Naga towers and destructible rocks, as well as the general formation of the map... Is there an increase in units that can jump terrain levels and is there a necessity in those units? Thanks! "
Yeah, turtling is less effective, but I think that's an evolution of RTS play in general. A lot of the lower tier units are ineffective against say, air tech, so rushing to air to counter a low level rush is a decent strat. There's really only two units that can ignore cliffs, the Reapers for Terran and the Stalker for Protoss, so it's not as big a deal as you'd think. It basically just gives them some more harassment and flanking options. The towers are nice to cut back on constant scouting, and the rocks give you some breathing room.
" Do you have new heroes at your disposal? "No heroes in multiplayer, yes heroes in single player. Jim Raynor will be teaming up with old and new friends alike during the course of his campaign.
@Donos said:
" Is it reasonably possible to compete without hotkeys (aside from grouping)? I hate hotkeys in all circumstances. "That depends on what you mean by compete. At the highest levels no, the top competitive players are able to issue commands at an approximate rate of 150 per minute (2.5 per second) which is impossible without the use of hotkeys. However, if battle.net's smart matchmaking service works out the way Blizzard hopes, you should be able to find other players at roughly your level to play against.
@onimonkii said:
" as a c&c player would terran be the best race for me to start with, having never played the original sc? "I would be more inclined to say no. While it's true that their core building mechanics are more traditional, the strategy behind their units is somewhat complex. Their units tend to require a little more active control at earlier tiers. Also it can become easy to fall into the fort-building trap with their superior defensive capabilities. I would recommend starting with Protoss as their units tend to be more straightforward.
" I loved starcraft will i enjoy starcraft2? "Yes
@chem said:
" 1. Is there any hope for someone who hasn't played starcraft since starcraft 1 came out? Can I win and feel all smug about it or will I just get a crazy korean and get my ass handed to me in most matches? 2. Are there any team v team maps? If so, how big can the teams be?3. Is it fun? Like 3 x $60 fun. "Things have changed significantly, so it won't be quite as easy as riding a bike. You'll win some and lose some, and hopefully be matched up with people at approximately your skill level. As of right now, the largest maps are for up to 4 players, but I'm fairly certain that this game will be able to handle up to 8 players per map, so 4v4. Yes it is fun, and Blizzard hasn't announced any real pricing structure yet. It's definitely $60 fun, you can decide in 2 years whether or not it will be $40 more fun.
@Wunder_ said:
" From the battle reports/live streams I've been watching, there definitely has been an increase in low tier fights and micro and a lot less focus on turtling. Is there still a possibility for a tech rush at the start to counter some low tier attacks? Also, I've seen a lot of new terrain stuff happening... Such as the Xel'Naga towers and destructible rocks, as well as the general formation of the map... Is there an increase in units that can jump terrain levels and is there a necessity in those units? Thanks! "Turtling has never really been viable in competitive play. An aggressive player will be able to seek out resources and resources = victory. That being said, home-player will always have the advantage and with some careful planning, tech rushes will always be viable.
As far as the necessity for units that can navigate terrain, that depends on your strategy and the map. Terrans can execute a very fast backdoor assault with the usage of Reapers. You may have noticed a number of the battle reports featuring terran players trying to harass enemy workers early on in such a manner. Protoss can also use the stalkers to blink up to an enemy base and create some havoc in the early game then march in with Colossi later on. Zerg can use their Nydus network to simply avoid the whole issue and every race has some sort of transport ability. On maps that have use a rock to cut off each base's primary chokepoint, these strategies can help expedite and early assault as well as preserve your own natural defenses. In the end, units that can navigate terrain are immensely useful but never a necessity.
Is star craft 2 more bland than the original?
- 1998 the closest unit that you had to a mech(a) was a dragoon (cyborg) and goliath (robot). Now there are Marauder, Thor, Viking (the flying transformer), Stalker, Immortal and Colossus, the last of the three use the same 4 leg crawl. Basically new units tend to be mecha, which smells like fan service to me.
Where did the range mechanics go?
- Siege Tanks, Guardians, Reavers used to be the only way to take out fortified positions safely from long distance and a way to secure a piece of the map. It seems this was replaced with just more throw-away units.
In SC Terran owned ground (siege mode), Zerg claimed air dominance (scourge/muta) and Protoss stealth (dark Templars/arbiters). Is there a similar pattern emerging in SC2 already? If not, are the races becoming more similar as a result?
I can answer that one, as I asked the same question on another site: They will update your Battle.Net account as soon as you're granted access. An email notification might take a while, but you will receive one when you are granted access as well .
Best way is to keep refreshing your Battle.Net account.
Are Queens an extra hassle to remember using all the time to spawn more larva or is it pretty fluid?
Roaches seem to be to the Hydralisk what Stalkers are to Dragoons would that be a valid comparison?
I assume the actual games are still peer to peer and Battlenet is just a robust drm/matchmaking/community platform?
How stable has the game been for you, both network wise and glitch/bug wise? I know it's Blizzard and all but just wondering if anything is has poped up.
It has been several days now, has the ravnking system started kicking in and placing you in matches more appropriate to your skill level or are there still too many new people and it has not been enough time?
Also, I'm so jealous :)
Does anyone know the minimum system requirements Blizzard is accepting for the beta? I am signed up but my laptop is a few years old and I wanted to know if I should abandon all hope of getting in. If anyone has gotten in with a crappier computer than this let me know:
- OPERATING SYSTEM:WINDOWS 2.6.0.6002 (SP 2)
- CPU TYPE:INTEL(R) CORE(TM)2 DUO CPU T5250 @ 1.50GHZ
- CPU SPEED (GHZ):1.52
- SYSTEM MEMORY (GB):1.99
- GRAPHICS CARD MODEL:MOBILE INTEL(R) 965 EXPRESS CHIPSET FAMILY
- GRAPHICS CARD DRIVER:IGDUMDX32.DLL
- DESKTOP RESOLUTION:1280X800
- HARD DISK SIZE (GB):136.479
- HARD DISK FREE SPACE (GB):20.19
" @Jeffsekai: I can answer that one, as I asked the same question on another site: They will update your Battle.Net account as soon as you're granted access. An email notification might take a while, but you will receive one when you are granted access as well . Best way is to keep refreshing your Battle.Net account. ":D
SC2 is definitely not more bland. All the races and units feel very unique and a lot of race-specific strategies are emerging. I, myself, have become fond of the DT/Warp Prism rush. Siege tanks are still great, and Guardians have been replaced by Brood Lords that are mechanically the same except the bullets they shoot turn into little units that continue to nibble on their target. Terran Reapers now provide some of the most effective hit-and-run harassment in the early game and the Nydus Worm makes late-game Zerg a constant threat EVERYWHERE." Is star craft 2 more bland than the original? - 1998 the closest unit that you had to a mech(a) was a dragoon (cyborg) and goliath (robot). Now there are Marauder, Thor, Viking (the flying transformer), Stalker, Immortal and Colossus, the last of the three use the same 4 leg crawl. Basically new units tend to be mecha, which smells like fan service to me. Where did the range mechanics go? - Siege Tanks, Guardians, Reavers used to be the only way to take out fortified positions safely from long distance and a way to secure a piece of the map. It seems this was replaced with just more throw-away units. In SC Terran owned ground (siege mode), Zerg claimed air dominance (scourge/muta) and Protoss stealth (dark Templars/arbiters). Is there a similar pattern emerging in SC2 already? If not, are the races becoming more similar as a result? "
Every race can do some really neat stuff and every race has a way to fight back. This level of balance and polish is one of the reasons why SC2 has been in development this long. If anything, the added variety has made SC2 more exciting for me.
@Tennmuerti said:
" How do the Voidrays compare to the Carriers it seems that people are using Voidrays often but not Carriers, are their roles just too similar? Are Queens an extra hassle to remember using all the time to spawn more larva or is it pretty fluid? Roaches seem to be to the Hydralisk what Stalkers are to Dragoons would that be a valid comparison?I assume the actual games are still peer to peer and Battlenet is just a robust drm/matchmaking/community platform? How stable has the game been for you, both network wise and glitch/bug wise? I know it's Blizzard and all but just wondering if anything is has poped up. It has been several days now, has the ravnking system started kicking in and placing you in matches more appropriate to your skill level or are there still too many new people and it has not been enough time? Also, I'm so jealous :) "
Voidrays excel at killing big units and buildings, whereas Carriers are much more effective against smaller, weaker units. Since so many low-tier Protoss units are already great at dealing with the small-fry, the Voidrays offer a much higher level of versatility to a Protoss assault force.
On the issue of Queens, you're probably not going to wanting to spawn the extra larva every time they're available. But in all honesty it's not that difficult since your Queen is always going to be right next to your Hatcheries anyways. There's a pretty loud exploding egg sound every time they hatch to cue you and you only have to do it once every 40 seconds.
The Roaches to Hydras comparison is mostly accurate, except for the fact that Roaches do not target air units. Also, much like Stalkers, Roaches have additional mobility since they can move while burrowed.
I've only been able to play about 20 matches so far, and actually just barely graduated out of the placement matches which I finished with a 9-1 record. Of course the beta has just barely started and the pool is relatively small. I don't think we'll be able to make any real judgments about their matchmaking system until the pool-size increases and more people are playing. As far as stability goes, the worst it has ever been on my end was a few brief lag spikes at the start of a match while everything is sorting itself out. Once the game is underway, everything runs smoothly. There have been no bugs that I have noticed.
Also, it'll be out soon enough :D
" @StarvingGamer: how many units can you control at once? Is it kind of a anything you can drag your mouse over thing? "With Shift+Click etc, there seems to be no limit to the number of units you can have selected simultaneously. If I remember correctly, once you get a group of units going they're organized in three rows of 8 in the unit frame. If the number of units exceeds this amount, additional pages will be added to the unit frame represented by tabs on the left side.
As in WCIII, the control pane will initially display the hotkeys of the most "casting" oriented unit iirc. You can then use Tab to cycle through the various units in the group to issue them unit specific commands. Generic commands such as Attack, Move and Stop are issued to all units in the group simultaneously.
@Ciffy said:Sorry, it's actualy 50 minerals and 100 gas for the upgrade." if overlords aren't detectors, what do the zerg use as a replacement (ie how do they see observers and DTs, etc)? "
Once you upgrade your Hatchery to a Lair, you can evolve Overlords into Overseers for 50 minerals each. Once they evolve they lose the ability to transport and spawn creep. Instead they become detectors and have the ability to spawn a Changeling that can mimic the base unit of one of your opponents (Zergling, Marine or Zealot) with the enemy's colors.
The true value of the Thor is its ability to appear relatively early in the game when compared to other big, beefy units. It's basically a tier 2 unit, requiring only a Factory with attached Tech Lab and an Armory. It's especially useful against Protoss units, with the ability to kill tier 1 Protoss units with 1 or 2 attacks. With proper SCV support, the Thor makes a formidable "tip of the spear" for any Terran offensive push. If you need any more proof, then check this out." @StarvingGamer:
What use does the Thor serve now? It seems to me it's there for novelty...Battlecruisers for the role of 'end-game' highest tier unit, and are by far not as limiting as Thor being an air unit an all.Maybe the fact Thors deliver their damage up front instead of 8x an attack is what makes em better for single target damage. But I wouldn't know :-( "
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