Why did I get ownt? - thread

#1 Posted by Raineko (433 posts) -

So it often happens that someone pounds me strong and I don't even know what happened. Perhaps people can post replays and others give tips.
So here I have a ridiculous game and I had no clue what to do:
 http://www.mediafire.com/?tkzkf9ccf935gax

#2 Posted by Shibbxyz (285 posts) -

I'm not a terren player but all from what i see all that happen their was you got distracted by the fact he had you contained,  
What you want to do when that sort of situation happens is keep your defence up but go around his army and just harass him 
If you see your opponent is outside your base with his army then it just means he will have nothing at his base so doing a drop with medivacs or banshee harass would really screw him and then you could just mass up a bigger army and steam roll him

#3 Posted by Raineko (433 posts) -
@Shibbxyz said:
" I'm not a terren player but all from what i see all that happen their was you got distracted by the fact he had you contained,  What you want to do when that sort of situation happens is keep your defence up but go around his army and just harass him If you see your opponent is outside your base with his army then it just means he will have nothing at his base so doing a drop with medivacs or banshee harass would really screw him and then you could just mass up a bigger army and steam roll him "
Yeah that would have been an option but I thought as soon as I dropped people into the base he would just run into my base.
#4 Edited by raiz265 (2239 posts) -

Actually you could have rolled him pretty much the entire game, you waited waaaaaaay too long and then tried to squeeze your units down the ramp against 6 tanks right in front of the ramp... 
 
At around 10minutes for example, before the tank sieges up, I'm pretty sure you could've walked right over his bunkers with stim. Actually even with one sieged tank it wouldn't have been that much of a problem. 
 
Then again at 16minutes, look at the army you had there, it was HUGE, don't try to win the game without losing a single unit. Unsiege your tanks, attack move them down the ramp and let them tank the damage of his siegetanks and just stream down you infantry right after... You would've lost some of your stuff, but still could've easily walked right down to his base and hammer it to the ground or just expand safely. 
 
  
Some other things:
Your opening wasn't the best I'd say, that superfast Engineering Bay is insanely risky, it worked in that game but had your opponent made some marauders and waited a little longer he would've probably just blown your bunker off the map. 
 
While your economy was like a million miles ahead of your opponent (look at the worker counts, you totally owned him in that regard) you had way to many spare minerals floating, just add some barracks or something and try to maintain constant production on them and your army would've been even bigger in a much shorter time and you could've danced through his base eyes closed. :P

#5 Posted by Carbon (23 posts) -

raiz265 covered a lot but I have a few abstract suggestions for you to apply to your next games that I didn't see you use in that replay.
 
First of all, you need to be able to analyze the formation of your opponents forces. He had two bunkers vertical to each other, so you should think "is it possible for me to attack from the top or bottom?". If you can, then you will make one bunker useless while you kill the other. In the case of that game, you could have gone done your ramp and straight up, then down through the minerals at the top bunker. Your army at that point (the point where you peeked down your ramp to see the bunkers then went back up into your base) was capable of ~174 DPS thanks to your +1 attack. You would have killed his bunkers in three seconds each, and the marines inside would have melted. Then just roll over his base.
 
Second, at the part where you lost your huge bio army to his siege tanks at your ramp, you actually could have killed his tanks by using the move command down your ramp paying attention to the units at the [i]back[/i] of your army. Once those back units are just about within range of hitting something, attack move anywhere on the screen and all of your units will get to attack and those tanks will melt. In the replay you could see that the front units started attacking from the top of your ramp, and the units in the back were just running around aimlessly getting hit by tank shots. You would have had heavy loses, but still enough left over to push him back into his base (he would just siege above his ramp). You could then move your orbital down to your natural and that floating command center to another expo and rebuild your army and win later.
 
Another point with the tanks is that you need to think of tanks as having a special ability, a gravitational pull if you will, that it can cast on units that are not on hold position. In other words, if your opponent has tanks with siege mode, you need to think of hold position as a counter to the ability of those tanks to just melt your army by attracting it into siege range after the first attack. Also, [i]hotkey your army[/i]. You'll get used to it quickly and you'll have to get used to hotkeyed units eventually anyway.
 
One more about siege tanks. You need to have an air unit to give vision for your tanks. You used a lot of scans, and the banshee you lost didn't actually need to attack (tanks do plenty of damage on their own), and would have been better used just for vision. Tanks can shoot father than they can see, so you need to always think about getting air units for vision when you get tanks. Abstractly, you need to consider the siege mode upgrade as in conjunction with having an air unit. In TvT this becomes very interesting because of the viking vs. viking fights that occur because of each player trying to gain air control and force their opponent to waste scans to help their tanks.

Lastly, you queued units up a lot. You need switch that habit to putting down more production buildings when you have extra resources. Even your opponent had more production buildings, but he had nowhere near the income needed to support that many. On the other hand, you had more than enough income to support your maximum production rate. That results in unspent resources, and queuing units isn't going to help that.
 
There are specific things that you could have done, like building a medivac to move some of your army to low ground south of your base and then counter attack him, or at least kill oncoming reinforcements. However, you suffered most in that game from not have an intuition for how to attack. First of all, you need to have knowledge of how to attack, such as the things that I mentioned above like coming at the bunkers from the top and using the move command to prevent the congestion of your army when attacking through a choke. Once you have an idea of what your doing, you need to just have faith and apply what you know when you attack. If it doesn't work, don't get angry with yourself. Just realize that by attacking in a certain way with your army against what they had, you strengthened your intuition for what is possible and not possible. Don't be scared to attack. My rule is that if I actually don't have a clue wether or not I can win a battle, I just attack and see. If I win, I win and [i]great[/i]. If I lose, then I may feel bad about "throwing the game away", but it feels way worse to [i]not[/i] attack and lose the game later and wonder if you could have won by attacking at that opportunity. In fact, that's what happened to you here and I know it sucks. If you have just attacked the bunkers, then you would have learned something whether you won or not.

#6 Posted by imsh_pl (3295 posts) -

I haven't watched the game yet, but judging from raiz's post I'll give you a piece of advice: whenever you have spare money in the bank, you're just hoping that your opponent's macro is as bad or worse than yours.
 

You don't want that.

#7 Edited by Raineko (433 posts) -

Thanks for the tips, guys.
But I just played a game where the exact same thing happened:
 http://www.mediafire.com/?brag5988xicx6ns
 
These siege builds are really dumb imo. :(

#8 Edited by Thule (692 posts) -
@Raineko said:

" Thanks for the tips, guys.But I just played a game where the exact same thing happened:  http://www.mediafire.com/?brag5988xicx6ns  These siege builds are really dumb imo. :( "

The reason why you get contained is because you let yourself get contained. 

Once you saw him build a bunker and a barracks at the bottom of your ramp(wasn't even a very good position) you should built a single bunker at the top of your ramp(your first bunker positioning was terribly off) and teched to siege tanks immediately. And by immediately, I mean straight away. Don't waste the gas you've got on tech labs, reactors and Marauders, instead build more Barracks and supply depots(you got supply blocked a couple times there and I set you behind) with your extra minerals.  
 
Also you built a Sensor Tower which did you no good whatsoever, only thing it told you was that you were contained, which a single SCV scout could've done also. Spend that gas on Tanks instead.
You also could've built an extra Command Centre in your main in anticipation of you pushing out, that way, you'd have an expansion immediately after you kill his contain.(Don't forget to build extra SCV's in your main, so you can saturate your expo immediately)
 
You did get Siege Tanks eventually, but it took a whole 10 minutes of game-time before you had your first tank out. Once you have 1-2 tanks, simply push forward slowly, buffering your tanks with your marines. The Marauders you built early were totally unneccesary. All you need is your Marines providing a buffer to your Tanks, which'll eat your opponent's Marines alive.
 
Once you did push out, you should've just commited, you could've focus fired the tank and you would've been probably fine. But you retreated again and lost units you didn't have to. If you choose to commit, do it. Don't be indecisive. Sure, you could lose, but you'll learn from it. You'll receive far more losses from being indecisive like that, rather than just going for it.
 
Once he had a sieged up Tank at your ramp and an expansion, it was basically game over.
#9 Edited by Raineko (433 posts) -

Okay thanks for the advices I have actually won a few matches against those bunker rush Terrans.
 
But I have just played a match against a Zerg that was completely ridiculous. I have no idea what I could have done perhaps partly because I have no idea how zerg works because I never play them but I just couldn't attack. Analyze plox:
 http://www.mediafire.com/?jpvba9v9ak28u6z
 
EDIT: Unfortunately I cannot watch my own replays because for some reason it stutters as hell in replay mode, no idea why.

#10 Posted by Thule (692 posts) -

You just got out-macroed. You were way too passive in the beginning of the game and your expansion was very late. You did a weird thing where you got 2 Engineering Bays really early and got both your infantry upgrades fast. That's not a bad thing mind you, but it is a bad thing if you don't use it in an attack for example. However, you didn't push out until much much later. Your upgrades finished at 8:35 and the first time you started pushing out was at the 12:45-13:00 minute mark. If you don't apply pressure to a Zerg(faked or otherwise) they'll outmacro you pretty easily and will have alot of bases up and running. 

Also, you built a bunker unneccesarily early on and made a Sensor Tower, which might be nice, but it still cost alot of money which should've gone into units. Also, the only scouting you did for the entire game was a scan on his main. If you want to beat a Zerg, you'll need to know his army composition and his tech buildings. Considering you said you don't know how Zerg works, I'd suggest you play a couple of games in customs as Zerg to learn how their units work and where they come from.
 
Your 12:30 mark attack did okay actually, you killed his third and alot of spines. After that you should've added Medivacs alot more and faster to your army. Most of your units were wounded and didn't get healed because you had maybe 2-3 Medivacs all game long. If you go Bio, make alot of Medivacs. Medivacs not only keep your army alive, but they're also key to defeating a Zerg if he's got more bases than you. Do little drops with 1 Medivac +4-8 Marines on his bases. Not only will you get some scouting information, but you'll also might kill some drones and hurt his economy. Yes, you might lose them to Muta's, but it's worth the risk and Muta's can't be everywhere at once. Once you had a decent ball of Marines, Tanks and Medivacs you should've expanded again.
 
And lastly don't be bad manner just because you lost. That guy outplayed you and won fair and square, no need to call him a "fag".
 
So to sum up:
- Attack(or fake an attack) earlier to force Zerg to make units instead of drones.
- Expand earlier(It's generally a good idea to try to expand quickly if you see the Zerg fast expand)
- Scout! Send out a single Marine to check on expansions, scan more, anything really.

#11 Edited by Raineko (433 posts) -

The sensor tower does indeed cost some minerals but I find that later in the game when you have enough minerals they can actually be extremely helpful. Here they helped me sometimes against those mutalisks that were hanging around near my base.  
But yeah I probably should have attacked more times earlier but I was really afraid of the Banelings and those mass Mutas kept flying into the back of my base lol. 
Another thing that I did wrong I built a Command and then forgot about it so I built a second one.
About the scouting you are right but since I don't really know what the Zerg buildings do that doesn't help me too much lol. (should play as Zerg sometimes)
And yes, I got too angry yesterday which was absolutely not his fault but mine because I played so bad, especially SC makes me very mad sometimes. *__* 

#12 Edited by Riddell (342 posts) -

Would someone be able to critique this game:  http://www.sc2replayed.com/players/140259-riddell 
 
I'm a bronze level player who has only played about 20 1v1 games. Watching the replay back this should of been an easy win but I managed to drag out out far too long and came pretty close to losing. Obviously, my play overall is going to be a bit sloppy but any advice much appreciated.  
 
My main problem is having a fear that my opponent is going to have some massive overpowering army ready for me if I attack early, but most of the game replays I've watched afterwards have shown me way in front in economy and army early on.

#13 Posted by onimonkii (2441 posts) -
@Riddell said:
" Would someone be able to critique this game:  http://www.sc2replayed.com/players/140259-riddell  I'm a bronze level player who has only played about 20 1v1 games. Watching the replay back this should of been an easy win but I managed to drag out out far too long and came pretty close to losing. Obviously, my play overall is going to be a bit sloppy but any advice much appreciated.   My main problem is having a fear that my opponent is going to have some massive overpowering army ready for me if I attack early, but most of the game replays I've watched afterwards have shown me way in front in economy and army early on. "
yeah, i'm in bronze as well, and i don't play protoss, but aren't you supposed to scout? you just kinda let him do whatever without knowing what was going on for the first 10ish minutes before your observer got there, then it died instantly. then you waited another 10 minutes before leaving your base with your giant ball of units, still with no idea what he had besides at least 4 cannons.
 
i'd say just scout more and be more aggressive early on, i'm slowly learning myself that just massing up units and attack-moving at their base is kind of a shitty way to go about things. it can be tough to wrap your head around at first because your first instincts tell you "i need to have more than him or i'll lose" and "if i keep attacking with small forces and losing them he'll be ahead of me" so you'll just mass up a huge army and hope it's enough to beat his. but really if you're forcing him to make more units, his economy is getting weaker, and you can continue to expand and produce more than he can in that way.
 
even if at 8 minutes you went and killed his like 4 zealots and backed off, you're way ahead, because he had been cannoning like a madman and wasn't even mining gas at all, all he could do is make more zealots, and there's no way he can make more zealots than what you currently had, let alone what you could potentially produce behind another attack, and he can't come and counterattack you with cannons. but you hadn't scouted where he even was yet, so you didn't know what you could try to get away with.
#14 Edited by Thule (692 posts) -
@Riddell said:

My main problem is having a fear that my opponent is going to have some massive overpowering army ready for me if I attack early, but most of the game replays I've watched afterwards have shown me way in front in economy and army early on. "

I don't even need to watch the replay. This is your problem right here. 
If you're afraid of moving out because he might have a big scary army: Scout! That way you know for sure. There's no reason not to send out a probe to have a look at his army every now and then, just to see what he's doing and what his army looks like.
#15 Posted by Raineko (433 posts) -

Also one tip: you can very often just run out with your units and try to do some damage. If you see your opponent has a bigger army then you can mostly just run back without getting too much damage.

#16 Edited by Raineko (433 posts) -

Actually I am kinda tired of this game. It is things like this that kinda make me wanna quit starcraft:
 
http://www.mediafire.com/?pb4bdizowhf26ae
I feel like this game is kinda broken.
You can do so much unrealistic cheese in this game its just not fun...

#17 Edited by Thule (692 posts) -
@Raineko said:

" Actually I am kinda tired of this game. It is things like this that kinda make me wanna quit starcraft:  http://www.mediafire.com/?pb4bdizowhf26ae I feel like this game is kinda broken.You can do so much unrealistic cheese in this game its just not fun... "

I normally try to be nice, but when you post replays of yourself ragequitting when you could've won easily you're kinda asking for it.

YOU QUIT WHEN YOU HELD HIS CANNON RUSH!
You built a bunker AND had enough marines to fill it up so he couldn't build anything near it and then you quit. You could've just teched to siege tanks and killed all of the cannons and could then proceed with the game normally.

I could try to adress your comments about cheese and things being broken, but seriously you quit when you held it off. Only one who you can blame is yourself.
#18 Edited by Bollard (5527 posts) -
@Thule: Haiii Thule, I didn't want to create a new thread asking for advice on getting better at Starcraft, and I wouldn't usually care enough to go searching for help like this, but I was wondering if you could offer me some advice please? (I'm a Protoss player)

Recently I can't seem to beat Terrans if they go Siege Tanks. Like, ever. If they're turtling in their base I just can't find a way into it without getting murdered brutally by the tanks, or even if they push out I still half my army obliterated in seconds by a siege tank line... The problem is, I KNOW I usually have a supply and unit advantage against these players - I can easily be maxed way before them, so I'm wanting to attack. But then they just sit there, slowly slowly gaining more and more supply, waiting in a choke so that if I try and attack at all I get blasted to smithereens before I can touch them.  

I know I could go air, but they usually have enough marines to make that feel futile, and I don't really have faith in Protoss air. Void rays are too slow to do damage, and Phoenixes always run out of energy. And whenever I try drop/warp prism play, sure I get to attack their base, but what good does that do me? They stop it after a while, and I was already economically ahead of them anyway (usually), so destroying that hasn't helped. The ever annoying siege line still awaits me.

Here's the replay that made me want to go ask for help - I contained this guy so bad, expanded, had max supply and still only came out even after the first fight. And then he just sieged me in and I was at a loss. 

http://www.mediafire.com/?qrujbdrfds9b347
   

Also, I totally know how I'm making it seem like I'm complaining the game is IMBA and there's no good counter to this etc etc, but I totally understand it's me at fault here and not the game. I'm not doing something right and I'm not trying to blame anyone else! (Ignore my comment at the end of the match for that reason please :P I was just in dismay at being unable to deal with siege tanks haha. Oh also, I know my build at the beginning of the game was shocking - I got distracted in places and wasn't playing straight at the start - didn't stop me from being all over him at the beginning though!)

Anyway, sorry for the epic length of this post, and thanks if you (or anyone else who reads this) can help!
#19 Edited by imsh_pl (3295 posts) -

 @Chavtheworld: I'll take that one, if you don't mind :)

1.Scout!

OK, first of all, the earliest mistake you've made was not enough scouting. Basically, the only thing you scouted was his position and that he had 2 rax.

You want to keep your scout probe active for as long as possible. Go into his base. See how many gases he takes: if he takes none, for example, you'll be dealing with early marine aggression. Gas before rax can also be an indicator of a fast tech like banshees or marauder slow.

When I go into a terran's base, first and foremost I take notice of his gas timings. After I've seen that, I hang in there for a while after his rax finishes to see if he's gonna build some more of them, but it's important to leave his base before his 1st marine pops out. After that I usually hang for a while to see if he leaves his base, and I then poke with my probe to see his army composition; with that I can see if he has a)a lot of marines (early aggression or marine/bunker all in)  b)marauder slow (indicator of an early push)  c)a tech lab or a reactor .

2.Use your advantage!

You chose to go with 4gate, a very aggresive build. If you see him making an early push and losing it convincingly, what are you waiting for? Not only is the 4gate used for early attacks - so you were going to attack anyway - but he also lost his whole army! I can really think of few better opportunities for finishing a game quickly. You should've either attacked, with a pylon to warp in units in his base, or made an expo, or teched. But instead you kept your stalkers near the right gold for way too long.

I also noticed that you made 6 warp gates off of 1 base. That is unacceptable! You should've attacked earlier. If you still had money leftover, you should've build an expo followed by a robo; notice how you were unprepared for banshees for half of the game; your first observer popped up after the 14th minute of the game!

3.General contain tips

Since the game would be pretty much over if you hadn't made the mistakes mentioned before, I'll give you a few general tips what to do when you have your opponent contained:
1.Scout every expo on the map. Send a probe to the bases you think he could try to build an expo at; that way you'll make sure you'll have him contained. His hidden expo was one of the reasons of his comeback.
2.Be sure to have detection available. Players in a pinch tend to try to come back to the game using harass, such as cloaked banshees. You have to be ready for their sneaky tactics.
3.Don't attack and expand at the same time. (note: you were allowed to do that this game just because you had the money leftover, this refers to you macroing perfectly) You know your opponent is on one base, so don't try expoing and breaking him at the same time. Granted, this is made under the assumption that both of you are macroing decently (you could've killed him with the first stlaker attack, that was his mistake).

4.Don't stay on T1 for that long

One of the reasons you lost was your poor army composition. Stalkers are good at small to medium numbers, but having a maxed out army of them is never good. You should've tried to tech to either colossi or, even better in this case, stargates (void rays kill tanks quickly and phoenix can lift them off to nullify their massive DPS).

The biggest things you have to remember are:
1.If you're going with the most aggressive build your race has to offer, be goddamn aggressive.
2.Scout, scout, scout!
3.When you have an advatage, don't try to end the game quickly; take an expo, tech and prepare for your opponent's comeback attemps (scout the bases, get detection)
#20 Edited by Ben_H (3352 posts) -
@imsh_pl said:


You want to keep your scout probe active for as long as possible. Go into his base. See how many gases he takes: if he takes none, for example, you'll be dealing with early marine aggression. Gas before rax can also be an indicator of a fast tech like banshees or marauder slow.

No gas can also signal a MarineKing style 1rax expand.  I do them a lot as they are safe to basically everything but 4gate, proxy rax or proxy 2gate zealot rushes.  At this level however, yes it will be a mass marine push more than likely.  Or they are so bad they forgot to get gas, which can happen.
Now, I just sped through it and here's what I saw:

1) You only had around 45-50 workers at maximum, try to get more, at least 60-70.  Draw a box on each mineral line and make sure there are at least 16-20 workers mining, but never more than 24.  Then just add on 6 for gas, and your total should be 22-26 or so per base, though do transfer workers as mineral fields empty out.
2)  This is key: Control the Xel'Naga Towers, had you controlled it near the start, you would have seen the Terran move a medivac across the map, which would signal one of two things, a drop (unlikely because of spawn positions) or some type of shenanigans, in this case, a hidden expansion.  If you control the watch towers, you get a lot of info; are they moving out?  Are workers being transferred somewhere?  Things like that.
3) Against Terran, especially if you see marauders, stalkers are not always the best choice past the early game. In this game you could have killed him with air, but in most games the best way to deal with marauders is with zealots, sentries, and colossi.  I noticed you didn't use sentries.  You should practice using forcefields, without them gateway units kinda suck, but with them, units like zealots are much more powerful because the Terran cannot retreat.  Forcefields are also incredibly important in holding early stim pushes and roach rushes as you can block your ramp easily.
4) You didn't take gas on your third for a while.  Protoss is an incredibly gas hungry race and it is always wise to take as many gasses as possible, especially if you plan to use sentries or templar, and the extra gas allows you to get upgrades much faster and tech to units like colossi, which would have been quite strong in this particular game.
5) Do NOT 4gate unless you plan to immediately be aggessive.  The 4gate is not sustainable for production beyond around 7.5 minutes so it is usually better to get 3 gates, expand then add a robo or more gateways.  Against terran, I personally get 2 gateways, a robo, then expand.  2 gates do not sound like much but with strong sentry use and an immortal and perhaps a couple stalkers, you can easily hold a stim push from Terran simply by cutting his forces in half with a forcefield. then containing everything that made it up with more forcefields.

Well, that's all I can think of.  Yes, had you pressured with the stalkers early on, you would have easily won.

#21 Posted by Raineko (433 posts) -

http://www.mediafire.com/?797p2j8si37o5z0

I thought after a long time I should play SC2 again and then this reminds me of why I stopped playing it. This game is based so much on harassment and cheeys annoying tactics that it is extremely frustrating. I think I have never played a RTS as frustrating as SC2.

Also I have no idea what to do against banelings. The zerg eliminates my entire army and reproduces in a few seconds...

#22 Posted by Thule (692 posts) -

@Raineko said:

http://www.mediafire.com/?797p2j8si37o5z0

I thought after a long time I should play SC2 again and then this reminds me of why I stopped playing it. This game is based so much on harassment and cheeys annoying tactics that it is extremely frustrating. I think I have never played a RTS as frustrating as SC2.

Also I have no idea what to do against banelings. The zerg eliminates my entire army and reproduces in a few seconds...

You lost because you've got terrible army control. That first battle at around 10:40 was lost simply because you had your army on move command. The guy only had like 12 lings and 8 blings, you would've won the game immediately if you'd just attack-moved. You also didn't have siege. Slowly moving up sieged tanks would've kept you relatively safe from those banelings.

You actually do alot of damage when you attack for a second time around 14:00 and kill like half his drones.

Throughout the game your opponent manages to beat you, despite the fact that you have a higher supply, simply due to bad positioning and control on your part. You don't spread out your army and don't siege your tanks. That allows banelings to just roll in and kill all your marines.

Your opponent got lucky catching your tanks just sieging in the last battle, but you probably still would've won that if you'd spread out more.

#23 Posted by imsh_pl (3295 posts) -
@Raineko said:


I thought after a long time I should play SC2 again and then this reminds me of why I stopped playing it. This game is based so much on harassment and cheeys annoying tactics that it is extremely frustrating. I think I have never played a RTS as frustrating as SC2.

Also I have no idea what to do against banelings. The zerg eliminates my entire army and reproduces in a few seconds...

With an attitude like that you're never gonna be good at StarCraft, managing to see your mistakes and learning from them is the first thing you have to do to become better.
#24 Posted by Raineko (433 posts) -

@imsh_pl said:

@Raineko said:

I thought after a long time I should play SC2 again and then this reminds me of why I stopped playing it. This game is based so much on harassment and cheeys annoying tactics that it is extremely frustrating. I think I have never played a RTS as frustrating as SC2.

Also I have no idea what to do against banelings. The zerg eliminates my entire army and reproduces in a few seconds...

With an attitude like that you're never gonna be good at StarCraft, managing to see your mistakes and learning from them is the first thing you have to do to become better.

That is probably true. I just don't like how this game is based so much on harassment, for example mutas, they just fly around your base and shoot at every inch they can get before you can reach them they fly away. Also they can be produced so fast at once.

And I have no idea how to spread my units away from banelings. Am I supposed to select every unit seperately?

#25 Posted by imsh_pl (3295 posts) -
@Raineko: You just have to attack where your enemy's weak. If you have problems with mutas, you shouldn't build static defenses, you should think to yourself "OK, his strong side is his ability to harass. I can either try to surround my base with turrets or I can try to hit him where he's weak - if he spent a lot of money on mutas then he can't have as big of a main army as I have, which means that I should just attack his front."
 
You should exploit your enemy's weaknesses, not try to combat his strengths.
#26 Posted by RYNO9881 (625 posts) -

Some good advice is to put some pressure on your opponent as soon as you get colossus tech if you choose that route.

#27 Posted by Thule (692 posts) -

@Raineko said:

@imsh_pl said:

@Raineko said:

I thought after a long time I should play SC2 again and then this reminds me of why I stopped playing it. This game is based so much on harassment and cheeys annoying tactics that it is extremely frustrating. I think I have never played a RTS as frustrating as SC2.

Also I have no idea what to do against banelings. The zerg eliminates my entire army and reproduces in a few seconds...

With an attitude like that you're never gonna be good at StarCraft, managing to see your mistakes and learning from them is the first thing you have to do to become better.

That is probably true. I just don't like how this game is based so much on harassment, for example mutas, they just fly around your base and shoot at every inch they can get before you can reach them they fly away. Also they can be produced so fast at once.

And I have no idea how to spread my units away from banelings. Am I supposed to select every unit seperately?

You can defend against mutas by simply having a small group of marines spread out among your bases. Have your main army at your expansion and then just put 10-15 marines in your main. In addition to turrets, you should be able to hold off mutas easily.

No, you're not supposed to select every unit seperately. Just make small boxes over your army and send the units you select in every direction until they're spread out properly.

#28 Posted by Raineko (433 posts) -

@RYNO9881 said:

Some good advice is to put some pressure on your opponent as soon as you get colossus tech if you choose that route.

lol I have never played anything but Terran.

#29 Edited by EthanML (455 posts) -
#30 Edited by Thule (692 posts) -

@EthanML said:

Here's one for you guys, I played this diamond PvP last night and have no idea how I managed to lose it. General suggestions would be appreciated. Looking back I guess I shouldn't have tried to push so hard and gotten up to colossus/stargate much quicker.

http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=234327#/replay_overview

You pretty much guessed it yourself. You didn't move beyond the Stalker+Immortal combo. You didn't get Blink either which could've allowed you to close the distance and focus down his Colossii. You also neglected to make zealots past the early game. Your opponent did and they made great meatshields for his Colossii, not to mention the damage they did against your Stalkers once they got in close.

The attack you did around 16-17 min killed alot of his units, but you sacrificed all your Immortals running into his base and didn't kill much. He held onto his Colossii which allowed him to get a decent deathball going.

To sum up:

- Transition out of the Stalker+Immortal comp in the mid/late-game, even just stopping Immortal production once you have like 5-6 and making Colossii from there would be good.

- Use excess minerals to make zealots, they're good meatshields even though it sometimes seems they evaporate in no time.

- Better army control. Make sure your Immortals are firing on the Armoured targets rather than the zealots. Don't just a-move.

#31 Posted by baldgye (756 posts) -

this is more venting than not knowing why I lost... as I know exactally how I lost..

...but fuck me I hate loosing to players becasue you just totally fuck up and get locked in this retarded like mental state where you do everything possible to make sure you cannot win, and convince your self that your doing the right thing

#32 Posted by Ben_H (3352 posts) -

@baldgye said:

this is more venting than not knowing why I lost... as I know exactally how I lost..

...but fuck me I hate loosing to players becasue you just totally fuck up and get locked in this retarded like mental state where you do everything possible to make sure you cannot win, and convince your self that your doing the right thing

That's called tilting. You start doing things you wouldn't do and taking ridiculous risks you know won't work. You will hear me talk about it a lot because I do it, and when I do, things get ugly. I practice with (and consistently beat) diamond players (and a master league Protoss for PvP that I know from school. I don't lose PvP anymore thanks to him) and get matched with diamonds, but when I tilt, I can tank my MMR down to gold league in like a solid hour and reset a weeks worth of wins and changes to my MMR. My solution was to get a second account and switch accounts if I lose to something that tilts me (dumb play that shouldn't work but does, cheese, or something that is a coinflip). On my second account I play Zerg, and my zerg isn't nearly affected by tilt as my protoss because I play so passively that it allows me to calm down a lot. Oddly enough, I have a better overall rank on my Zerg account now, and I don't really practice anything on it. I just hatch first and play reactively and calmly from there. Maybe I should switch to zerg completely.

#33 Posted by DystopiaX (5310 posts) -

Yeah there was this one game where I was 6 base to his 2 (lol) and I managed to lose by just constantly remaxing on collossus/archon, and he went cloaked banshee/turret ring.

I shouldn't have lost but there you go.

#34 Posted by baldgye (756 posts) -
@Ben_H said:

@baldgye said:

this is more venting than not knowing why I lost... as I know exactally how I lost..

...but fuck me I hate loosing to players becasue you just totally fuck up and get locked in this retarded like mental state where you do everything possible to make sure you cannot win, and convince your self that your doing the right thing

That's called tilting. You start doing things you wouldn't do and taking ridiculous risks you know won't work. You will hear me talk about it a lot because I do it, and when I do, things get ugly. I practice with (and consistently beat) diamond players (and a master league Protoss for PvP that I know from school. I don't lose PvP anymore thanks to him) and get matched with diamonds, but when I tilt, I can tank my MMR down to gold league in like a solid hour and reset a weeks worth of wins and changes to my MMR. My solution was to get a second account and switch accounts if I lose to something that tilts me (dumb play that shouldn't work but does, cheese, or something that is a coinflip). On my second account I play Zerg, and my zerg isn't nearly affected by tilt as my protoss because I play so passively that it allows me to calm down a lot. Oddly enough, I have a better overall rank on my Zerg account now, and I don't really practice anything on it. I just hatch first and play reactively and calmly from there. Maybe I should switch to zerg completely.

it drives me mad lol
 
I have 2 accounts... well 3 if u count the PTR.. one EU and one US acc and I'm in plat 1v1 for both and my mai nacc is my EU one and I was playing diamonds just before I stopped becasue... well I got a new gf lol... and now I've finally got time to my self I've been playing on and off on my US acc as I don't care.. or I shouldn't but loosing still pisses me off... especially when I 'tilt' and do dumb shit... even worse when I do it pvp...

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