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    A digital distribution service owned by Valve Corporation. Originally created to distribute Valve's own games, Steam has since become the de facto standard for digital distribution of PC games.

    Modder added Pop-up Advertising in popular mod.

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    viking_funeral

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    #1  Edited By viking_funeral

    Apparently the maker of the very popular Magic Midas mod for Skyrim added a 4% chance of a pop-up appearing in the game asking to buy the retail version when a spell from the free version of the mod is used. The backlash was so swift and furious that the free version (with the pop-ups) was already removed 4 hours after it was implemented.

    No Caption Provided

    You can see more comments about it here:

    http://steamcommunity.com//app/72850/discussions/0/611704730316862297/?insideModal=1#p1

    I've been slightly indifferent to mildly annoyed by the idea of paid mods, but this seems like a massive warning sign of what the paid mod community might look like. How long has it even been since paid mods have been allowed? A couple days? Disgraceful.

    Edit: I'm fairly certain I posted this on the Skyrim forum page. Apologies if it's in the wrong spot.

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    ll_Exile_ll

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    I've been slightly indifferent to mildly annoyed by the idea of paid mods, but this seems like a massive warning sign of what the paid mod community might look like. How long has it even been since paid mods have been allowed? A couple days? Disgraceful.

    Disgraceful? Really?

    I understand this is a big change, and there have been many missteps in handling this, but how is disgraceful for someone to want to be paid for their work? I know it's a lot more complicated than that and there are many sides to this discussion, but I think some people need to re-evaluate their idea of what should and shouldn't be free.

    Many of the mods being charged for aren't worth a cent, but many of them are. If someone spends hundreds of hours of their own time creating a high quality piece of content, they should be allowed to charge for that without being labelled as greedy sellouts by a bunch of people that just want free content.

    I think the bigger problem is Valve's ridiculous 75% cut for doing literally nothing other than hosting the content on their marketplace.

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    viking_funeral

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    Disgraceful? Really?

    You don't find the idea of in game pop-ups disgraceful?

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    mordukai

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    That can of worm didn't take long to explode. I seriously can't wait to see how high this shit mountain will get.

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    ll_Exile_ll

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    #5  Edited By ll_Exile_ll

    @viking_funeral said:

    @ll_exile_ll said:

    Disgraceful? Really?

    You don't find the idea of in game pop-ups disgraceful?

    This person created content you get to use for free. I agree there was maybe a more elegant way of implementing things, but I don't see a problem with them asking the user to consider paying if they are enjoying the content. I feel it's disgraceful that people think it's unacceptable for someone to want to be paid for their hard work.

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    joshwent

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    #6  Edited By joshwent

    @ll_exile_ll said:

    I feel it's disgraceful that people think it's unacceptable for someone to want to be paid for their hard work.

    If the internet was as robust back in the day when modding first got huge and a simple PayPal type thing existed, people wouldn't be batting an eye at the idea of paying for awesome user-made additions to their games today. As it is, they feel like their candy's being taken away.

    I understand the awkward resistance, but as you said, seeing how deeply enraged some gamers are getting at the mere idea of paying to use cool stuff people pour tons of work into... is pretty sad.

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    dagas

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    ANother way to milk money from gamers. The modder just gets 25% and is forced to come up with dirty tricks to sell more to make any kind of money and that just gives Valve and Bethesda more money.

    I've always liked Steam, but this is the first time I feel like they have gone too far. If you want to take the best mods and make them into official DLC's and give them some extra content made by Bethesda then that is fine but this is just profiting from modders and in the end it is going to hurt the players. I've not checked because I've not played Skyrim recently but I bet several of the mods I use in Skyrim have already gone over to being paid content now.

    This is nothing but a money grab from Valve and Bethesda. I am not supporting this.

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    Bam_Boozilled

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    #8  Edited By Bam_Boozilled

    @ll_exile_ll: I have re-evaluated what I think should and shouldn't be free, and I have come to the decision that I will never pay a cent for a mod.

    If a mod maker feels their work is fit to charge money for it, that is their choice. I'm just not going to buy it.

    I wrote up a few paragraphs trying to explain why this seems so messed up to me, but . There were a few ethical/legal issues mixed in. Frankly you could read the forbes article on that, it'd be better articulated anyways.

    Instead I will put the main point that came to me while writing that. Mods have had a weird sanctity to me, in which they were this place where the community made things for each other, purely for the love of the game. No price or strings attached. There was no guilt for not ponying up and giving cash because mod authors "should be allowed to charge for that." Now this happy sunshiny place has been tarnished by price tags and, as demonstrated above, advert laden free versions. People stealing ideas, taking down old free versions, all that good stuff. As pessimistic as it may seem, I can really only see this as microtransactions working their way deeper into gaming. To the point where they have reached mods. And I find that extremely depressing. I don't have much more to say than that.

    After all this time I think I'm finally sick of people trying to nickle and dime me for gaming. As much as they want to market swords and armor sets to me, I really don't want to have any of it.

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    Samaritan

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    I do not want to live in this world anymore.

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    ripelivejam

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    The amount of talk from people about donations is funny. I wonder how many of them would even have considered donating before.

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    AdequatelyPrepared

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    @ll_exile_ll:

    I've heard that it's the publisher that establishes most of the cut for paid mods, not Valve. Not too sure how true that is though.

    @captain_felafel said:

    I do not want to live in this world anymore.

    Bit of an overkill don't you think? Even if modern gaming trends are going to shit, there's always both going to be a few modern diamonds (just look at the recent indie scene), and old games to play that remind us of what happens when development teams treat gaming as an art form and not as a commodity to be consumed and charged for.

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    Crembaw

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    The amount of talk from people about donations is funny. I wonder how many of them would even have considered donating before.

    Durante managed to make a handful of donated dollars off of DSfix and DPRfix, but it was peanuts in the grander scheme.

    Have we not already been paying money for mods on Steam for years? Things which are now considered part of the free-to-play model that Valve has implemented through its most major games - Dota2, CS:GO and TF2 - used to solely be the domain of modders and mappers. Steam has, for years now, had a system where post-release content has been put up for microtransaction prices, and while a handful (TF2 weapons and the Dota2 compendiums) have in-game consequences the vast majority are now cosmetics. Skins. You know, the things everyone used to go grab from CSBanana or Filefront. Why not allow the next step up, the kinds of things you'd find on ModDB, also share in the profit?

    Think mods should be free, sure. But the idea that Steam monetizing mods for games is somehow outrageous and undue is kind of crazy.

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    AthleticShark

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    @viking_funeral said:

    @ll_exile_ll said:

    Disgraceful? Really?

    You don't find the idea of in game pop-ups disgraceful?

    This person created content you get to use for free. I agree there was maybe a more elegant way of implementing things, but I don't see a problem with them asking the user to consider paying if they are enjoying the content. I feel it's disgraceful that people think it's unacceptable for someone to want to be paid for their hard work.

    Except you are missing the giant point of that this person made this content for free originally. Now, only when steam has allowed people to charge money did he feel it was time to collect payment. No one asked him to make this mod. He made it and give it out free from the beginning. Adding ad's to a mod that has been free for a while is awful. He originally made it knowing he would not receive payment.

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    AthleticShark

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    @joshwent said:

    @ll_exile_ll said:

    I feel it's disgraceful that people think it's unacceptable for someone to want to be paid for their hard work.

    If the internet was as robust back in the day when modding first got huge and a simple PayPal type thing existed, people wouldn't be batting an eye at the idea of paying for awesome user-made additions to their games today. As it is, they feel like their candy's being taken away.

    I understand the awkward resistance, but as you said, seeing how deeply enraged some gamers are getting at the mere idea of paying to use cool stuff people pour tons of work into... is pretty sad.

    The people that poured a ton of work did it knowing they would not get any repayment except for the fact that others would get enjoyment out of their work. Before this, people that made mods made them for enjoyment and wanted to make games better or just create something that others could enjoy. The fact is now mod pages are going to be flooded with people trying to make money. People are gonna abuse the system and the intentions of mods are out the window. People made mods because they enjoyed doing it and wanted to make the game they loved better. Now it is gonna turn into "what I can I do to make a quick buck".

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    viking_funeral

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    I feel it's disgraceful that people think it's unacceptable for someone to want to be paid for their hard work.

    If the original intention is to make profit, sure.

    As I clearly stated in my original post, and as you even quoted me in your initial response, I am indifferent to slightly annoyed by the idea of paying for mods. We can see how they can work well in something like DotA 2. However, those mods are moderated and originally intended to be for profit.

    The mod in contention has been around for nearly 4 years without any signs that it could make a profit for the creator. Like many who've been involved in modding, it can be assumed that the work was originally done out of a passion for gaming, an interest in programming, and a love of the community. It was hard work without a prospect of monetary reward.

    After 4 years of expecting no reward except the appreciation of the community, suddenly an unexpected opportunity for profit arises. Within days a paid for version is released, and the original version has pop-up advertising implemented. This is less 'expecting to be paid for hard work' than 'Hey, I can unexpectedly make money off of this thing I used to do for fun.'

    Now the free version has been pulled because of the backlash against the annoying pop-ups, and what was previously free is now a minimum of $3. Regardless of the idea of people wanting to be paid for content that was previously released for the love of the game, this is going to sharply divide the community.

    There are already bootleg versions of the aforementioned mod being put up on and pulled down from Steam Workshop. Then there's the free versions that are still out in the wild. Is it mod piracy to use a previously free version of a mod that exists on the Nexus?

    Mod piracy. I mean, seriously. That's going to be a thing now.

    ~

    Now, all of this is a major digression from my actual concern and the topic at hand — pop-up advertising in video games.

    I think we can all agree that there is nothing more annoying that being suddenly pulled from being immersed in a video game, especially if what pulls us from that immersion is something suddenly asking for money. The mod in question had a 4% chance of the pop-up appearing whenever one of the spells for the mod was cast. That means you could be in the middle of a major battle when suddenly everything stops, and you have to manually remove a pop-up so you can return to the action. The 4% is per cast however, so although unlikely, it is entirely possible for the very next spell you cast in battle to have the same damn thing happen.

    Game publishers are also going to take note of how people respond to this. An always-online requirement used to be one of the most vehemently opposed restrictions to PC gaming, and over the years we've seen the resistance lessen. It continuously returns, because publishers see value for themselves in it.

    The same can be said for in-game advertising. Publishers have been pushing for in-game advertising for a long time, and it's made a lot of slow headway. Pop-up ads have been ubiquitous in mobile phone gaming for a long while now, and their nickle 'n' dime dynamic has been persuasive to the publishers of major retail gaming. If for-profit modders make the idea of in-game pop-ups commonplace, then the resistance toward implementing it in full retail products will lessen and may even eventually be implemented.

    I would like to not have to install an ad-block to play my video games, personally.

    ~

    Full disclosure: I have not used the mod in question for nearly 3 years, nor played Skyrim for at least 2 years.

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    doctordonkey

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    What? Man, fuck everything about that right there. I wish I had enough poop noises to make to properly express myself.

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    Teddie

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    I wish I had enough poop noises to make to properly express myself.

    I'll mod new poop noises into the forums for you, but you'll need to fork over $1 every time you use one.

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    poisonjam7

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    Another example of how money ruins everything. If some modder manages to make a significant amount of money from this crap, it's all over. Steam is already turning into the App Store for PC games, now modders are going to follow suit with blatant rip offs and worthless cash grabs.

    Having been a modder and having released a few mods in my day, I find this entire situation deplorable. But you can't change the nature of some people. If they think they can make money off of something, they will do almost anything to achieve that, regardless of the consequences to the consumer, the game, the industry or even themselves.

    I've never felt such a strange combination of both sadness and fury simultaneously.

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    rittsy

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    #20  Edited By rittsy

    The pop-up thing kinda reminded me of shareware games. Just not as graceful.

    I honestly don't understand why people are upset by this. It gives modders the option of making money off something they created with the permission of the game publisher/developer. If you don't want to pay for something, don't pay for it. If modders don't want to charge for something, they don't need to charge.

    There's obviously some kinks that will need to be worked out/better explained, but for now I just don't see a reason to declare Valve is evil and PC gaming doomed. People like to talk about how they support the modding community, but I'd wager the vast majority would never consider donating money to a modder, and even more probably visit the host sites with adblock active on their browser.

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    ZolRoyce

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    4% doesn't sound like a lot, and you can just close the pop up right?
    Doesn't sound that bad. Very bad timing on their part though to be honest, I think the dust needs to settle from this storm before anybody tries to do something like that, people are far too up in arms to let anything slide without shitting all over it, just wait a few months and see where opinions settle.

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    Bones8677

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    deactivated-63f899c29358e

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    Gross, if it was a pop-up when you started the game I could accept it, but something that might happen during gameplay and is basically an in-game-ad is kinda disgusting.

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    fisk0

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    #24 fisk0  Moderator

    @rittsy said:

    The pop-up thing kinda reminded me of shareware games. Just not as graceful.

    I honestly don't understand why people are upset by this. It gives modders the option of making money off something they created with the permission of the game publisher/developer. If you don't want to pay for something, don't pay for it. If modders don't want to charge for something, they don't need to charge.

    There's obviously some kinks that will need to be worked out/better explained, but for now I just don't see a reason to declare Valve is evil and PC gaming doomed. People like to talk about how they support the modding community, but I'd wager the vast majority would never consider donating money to a modder, and even more probably visit the host sites with adblock active on their browser.

    Shareware games usually had a "Please buy this if you enjoyed it" upon exiting the game or when finishing the free content. No shareware game I spent any time with had popups with "PAY FOR THE GAME IN ORDER TO GET RID OF THIS POPUP" every few seconds.

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    MrWakka

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    #25  Edited By MrWakka

    @bones8677 said:

    You're missing the whole point. The problem isn't that he's asking for money or donations it's that he's created a pop-up ad in a fantasy game that destroys immersion and comes off as cheap and desperate.

    So... don't use his mod? Make your own?

    If your answer to the first one is that you really enjoy and want to use this mod, maybe fork over some cash for all his hard work. If your answer to the second is you can't, then it obviously was a significant enough mod that required, skill, knowledge, and time to produce. Besides, hes still letting you play it for free with an ad-supported version.

    I don't make mods these days, but back when I was heavily into it I spent hundreds of hours at a computer desk doing level design, scripting, and writing. Good quality mods are neither easy, simple, or profitable normally, if these people can get paid for their work, more power to them. It actually kind of makes me want to get back into modding, I just cannot normally justify the time investment now that I am older and have bills to pay.

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    cornbredx

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    #26  Edited By cornbredx

    All the complaints I see here are just coming off as whining and entitlement.

    People deserve to be paid for their work, period.

    The real problem is that money makes things complicated. I'm all for paying people for their hard work, though. And I think putting out a free one and advertising the paid one is fine. People shouldn't be harassing this modder for doing it. I can tell he or she is trying to do it fairly. Whether or not this was for free before doesn't even matter- especially because it couldn't have been paid for before.

    An even bigger issue is how much of a cut goes to the modder. I think that's the real problem.

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    Immortal_Guy

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    I feel like poeple should be careful saying that modders "deserve" to be paid. Modders don't "deserve" to be paid for their work any more than players "deserve" free mods. Most people used to make mods with full knowledge that they were never going to get paid for them - they don't "deserve" to be compensated for that any more than I "deserve" money for the time and effort I'm spending writing my opinions up on this forum.

    You could argue that they do, however, have a right to charge for it if they want to, and players have a similar right to refuse to pay if they don't want to - the same way I have a right to compile all my forum posts into a book and charge for that, and everyone has a right to refuse to buy it (and would probably exercise that right).

    I do support the idea of players paying good modders, but it's not like all modders before this were working away for nothing in slave labour. Now, however, we'll have modders working with the hope of making money, but 75% of their sales going straight to steam and Bethesda - that's slave labour.

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    deactivated-5fc86d541ecee

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    It's fucking disgusting that people will go on tirades about how horrible DLC practices are from big publishers, but someone comes along and implements actual fucking pop-up ads during gameplay and the response is basically 'stop being entitled babies, he deserves to get paid for his hard work'. Seriously, what the fuck?

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    MrWakka

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    #29  Edited By MrWakka

    @friendlyphoenix said:

    It's fucking disgusting that people will go on tirades about how horrible DLC practices are from big publishers, but someone comes along and implements actual fucking pop-up ads during gameplay and the response is basically 'stop being entitled babies, he deserves to get paid for his hard work'. Seriously, what the fuck?

    You are assuming a whole lot there. For one, nothing suggests that the people defending a modders right to charge for his work are people who actively argue about DLC. Second this is a false equivalence, most of the arguments about DLC are not about companies charging for content in and of itself, it is about the content they are charging for, and how it relates to the game it was produced for. This is not all that different from a demo, or ad-supported version of a paid app.

    If it seems like everyone is being unreasonable maybe it is time to step back and examine, if in fact, you are the one being unreasonable. At the end if the day the ad version of the mod was free, the paid version had no pop up ad, and he responded to criticism and removed it.

    For example if Skyrim were to be released, and every now and again when fighting a pop up ad promoting their new DLC popped up. That would indeed be terrible, and worthy of outrage. You paid for a full product and are now being spammed by Bethesda about buying their new DLC breaking your immersion and game play experience. This is not what is happening with this mod. Instead this was, hamfisted though it was, basically no different from countless demos or games the request you to buy the full version now that you have played the free version, something that has existed since at the very least the mid-90s if not before.

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    musubi

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    People get way too worked up over paid content in games. Either you think its worth your money or you dont. I don't see how there needs to be anymore discussion beyond that.

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    Brendan

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    #31  Edited By Brendan

    It seems pretty obvious to me that including pop-up ads in-game as part of your monetization strategy for mods is not a smart way to implement the ability to make money off your work. Since the whole paid mods issue is new people will turn this particular case into a point for or against the whole scheme, but to me this seems like one of those early days wacky things that happen when something is new, and quickly dies out because it's really stupid as the broad idea matures.

    The most intelligent way to do this would probably be to avoid locking existing free content behind a paywall all of a sudden, not implement disruptive elements such as ads to "encourage" (pressure) people to upgrade, and focus on high quality and value for new content that you want to charge people for. You as a modder know that people will value your work less than "official" content, so don't charge $1+ for single pieces of equipment. Maybe don't charge for single pieces at all, and instead charge $2-5 for multiple sets. The decision to try downloading mods was easy before, so continue to make it easy by making the price feel almost unnoticeable. The return policy should be robust and easy as well which it seems it is shaping up to be. T

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    koolaid

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    The sad truth of this industry, doesn't matter if you are an indie dev, modder or youtuber/twitch, you have to self promote. A lot.

    It feels weird. You don't want to be a jerk. You don't want to bug people. You feel inappropriate doing it. But you still have to. How else is everyone gonna find out about your work unless you tell them? Unless you champion it? It sounds like this person would like folks to buy the paid version of his mod. I'd say this method is leaps and bounds more effective then putting your paid mod up on the site and just waiting for people to stumble on it.

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    rittsy

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    #33  Edited By rittsy

    @fisk0 said:

    @rittsy said:

    The pop-up thing kinda reminded me of shareware games. Just not as graceful.

    I honestly don't understand why people are upset by this. It gives modders the option of making money off something they created with the permission of the game publisher/developer. If you don't want to pay for something, don't pay for it. If modders don't want to charge for something, they don't need to charge.

    There's obviously some kinks that will need to be worked out/better explained, but for now I just don't see a reason to declare Valve is evil and PC gaming doomed. People like to talk about how they support the modding community, but I'd wager the vast majority would never consider donating money to a modder, and even more probably visit the host sites with adblock active on their browser.

    Shareware games usually had a "Please buy this if you enjoyed it" upon exiting the game or when finishing the free content. No shareware game I spent any time with had popups with "PAY FOR THE GAME IN ORDER TO GET RID OF THIS POPUP" every few seconds.

    Like I said, not as graceful. Still early days, he/they will find a better, less intrusive solution. Also it was only when you used one of five mod-created spells, and it only occurred 4% of the time, not exactly "every few seconds".

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    Niceanims

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    My bigger issue with Midas Magic is how it was pretty much abandoned 2 or 3 years ago and it's only coming back now.

    I guess "issue" is to severe a word though. Hopefully he keeps updating it. I'd like to see it get as big and crazy as it was in Oblivion because fuck, man. That shit was nuts.

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    viking_funeral

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    #35  Edited By viking_funeral

    @cornbredx said:

    All the complaints I see here are just coming off as whining and entitlement.

    People deserve to be paid for their work, period.

    What about volunteer work?

    I don't know. I'd feel like a dick if I went back to some of the locations I used to volunteer at and asked to be paid after the fact. I happen to know one scientific journal still uses some code I wrote gratis. I had no expectations of being paid for it, and I did it because I saw a need and wanted to help. That's pretty much been the ethos of the modding community for decades.

    This mod is 4 years old. It was also non-profit for those entire 4 years.

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    SirFork

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    #36  Edited By SirFork

    @friendlyphoenix: I've lost faith in the users of this site

    EDIT: I'm saying I agree with you

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    MrWakka

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    @cornbredx said:

    All the complaints I see here are just coming off as whining and entitlement.

    People deserve to be paid for their work, period.

    What about volunteer work?

    I don't know. I'd feel like a dick if I went back to some of the locations I used to volunteer at and asked to be paid after the fact. I happen to know one scientific journal still uses some code I wrote gratis. I had no expectations of being paid for it, and I did it because I saw a need and wanted to help. That's pretty much been the ethos of the modding community for decades.

    This mod is 4 years old. It was also non-profit for those entire 4 years.

    More akin to working as a volunteer for a time, then saying that if the place you are volunteering at wishes to retain your services further they'll need to pay you. They don't have to, but if they really want you to keep doing whatever you are doing they can. You are not asking for back pay, simply saying you won't continue without pay.

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    koolaid

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    #38  Edited By koolaid

    @itwongo said:

    My bigger issue with Midas Magic is how it was pretty much abandoned 2 or 3 years ago and it's only coming back now.

    I guess "issue" is to severe a word though. Hopefully he keeps updating it. I'd like to see it get as big and crazy as it was in Oblivion because fuck, man. That shit was nuts.

    I mean... if what you are saying is true, then isn't that case in point for why paid mods are a good thing? Did this modder say "Well, that was fun, but I really don't have the time/money to devote to this anymore." And that now that there is an incentive that allows the modder to say, work on mods part time, they are coming back?

    @cornbredx said:

    All the complaints I see here are just coming off as whining and entitlement.

    People deserve to be paid for their work, period.

    What about volunteer work?

    I don't know. I'd feel like a dick if I went back to some of the locations I used to volunteer at and asked to be paid after the fact. I happen to know one scientific journal still uses some code I wrote gratis. I had no expectations of being paid for it, and I did it because I saw a need and wanted to help. That's pretty much been the ethos of the modding community for decades.

    This mod is 4 years old. It was also non-profit for those entire 4 years.

    This seems like a really strange point to make. I don't think anyone is talking about volunteer work when they are saying people deserve to get paid? The whole point of volunteering is that your time/skills are valuable and you are doing a positive thing by donating those valuable skills for a cause of some sort. That is much different from entitlement, which is where people say "your skills are worthless/ not worth money/ this other person gives it away for free. Therefore I will not pay you."

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    JimmySmiths

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    Look up writings on the overjustification effect. Now that modding has been monetized like a damn facebook game on the largest platform on pc, no one will ever look at it like they had the day before. Modding is finished.

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    viking_funeral

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    #40  Edited By viking_funeral
    @mrwakka said:

    More akin to working as a volunteer for a time, then saying that if the place you are volunteering at wishes to retain your services further they'll need to pay you. They don't have to, but if they really want you to keep doing whatever you are doing they can. You are not asking for back pay, simply saying you won't continue without pay.

    Except the work is done

    I thought my example of me literally writing code during pro bono work and going back to ask to be paid for it was a pretty... clear example, but whatever.

    To continue with your version of the analogy, this is like volunteering, doing some work, leaving for a few years, coming back to make it so your former work has ads, get upset and removing your former work, than saying if people want to use your former work again, they have to pay for it.

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    viking_funeral

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    @koolaid: The mod in question was free, for 4 years. The free version has been removed.

    The free version had pop-up ads added to it for about half a day, but now it just doesn't exist.

    I don't think anyone is talking about volunteer work when they are saying people deserve to get paid?

    The creator of this mod is asking to be paid, and has removed any formerly free (or volunteer) versions of his work.

    Either people are not bothering to understand the situation and just want to make generic comments about the entire situation, or people feel that this modder should be paid for work that previously had no possibility of being paid for.

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    tuxfool

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    #42  Edited By tuxfool
    @brendan said:

    The most intelligent way to do this would probably be to avoid locking existing free content behind a paywall all of a sudden, not implement disruptive elements such as ads to "encourage" (pressure) people to upgrade, and focus on high quality and value for new content that you want to charge people for. You as a modder know that people will value your work less than "official" content, so don't charge $1+ for single pieces of equipment. Maybe don't charge for single pieces at all, and instead charge $2-5 for multiple sets. The decision to try downloading mods was easy before, so continue to make it easy by making the price feel almost unnoticeable. The return policy should be robust and easy as well which it seems it is shaping up to be. T

    This idea is way too sensible. The issue here is that a single piece of equipment in Skyrim has a completely different meaning to a hat in TF2 and the like. People running Skyrim go up to the hundreds of mods that all work in conjunction to make the experience better. Now that people are charging those amounts the cost of all those mods together makes the experience prohibitive for most people.

    So what happens now is that all those amazing skyrim screenshots people show off every so often will be limited to the spendy few and not the the general public. Then there also the issue with the money that is going towards Bethesda, where they would reap rewards for mods on a game that has already been paid for. There is a certain understanding with the cut valve takes for TF2 and Dota2 mods in that those mods help fund development of those games and site maintenance, which isn't the case for skyrim.

    I will also say that the return policy is less than good. 24h is too short a time for somebody to determine that a mod is broken or interacts badly with future mods. Are people expecting robust QA to be done on mods to guarantee good behaviour, or expect people that are doing this as a hobby to debug and constantly update mods after the 24h pass?

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    koolaid

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    #43  Edited By koolaid

    @viking_funeral: Then I guess I just disagree with you. It's his work. He can do whatever he wants with it. If he wants to take it down that's his right. Just because he created it and released it previously (free or not) doesn't mean it belongs to society at large.

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    tuxfool

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    @koolaid said:

    @viking_funeral: Then I guess I just disagree with you. It's his work. He can do whatever he wants with it. If he wants to take it down that's his right. Just because he created it and released it previously (free or not) doesn't mean it belongs to society at large.

    Nobody is arguing that he cannot do that, just that it is bad form and looks like a pure cash grab. I'm not sure the original poster would have mentioned it if future versions or updated version were paid.

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    Niceanims

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    #45  Edited By Niceanims

    @koolaid: that's why I said issue is too severe a word. But I don't have the money for it right now, so I hope he keeps updating it so when I have money I can go "oh shit he's going all the way just like oblivion" and then I'd be willing to buy it for, like, a good twenty bucks.

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    SchrodngrsFalco

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    #46  Edited By SchrodngrsFalco

    @ll_exile_ll: valve takes 30% of the cut and bethesda takes 45%. Valve charges the same percentage that they charge for games to be posted on steam.

    I think it's cool of him to realize it was a mistake to implement the popup the way he did and change it to just once per load.

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    triplestan

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    It's definitely a shitty way to handle the situation, but that doesn't mean I think the mod creator shouldn't be able to charge for their mod. Whether it was free or not before this week is a moot point - the precedent has been set, and this creator assumes that their work is of a high enough quality to justify a $7.50 price tag. Whether the creator is right in their assumption is up to the consumer to decide.

    No matter how much of a cut Valve and Bethesda take, these mod creators are still making 100% more than they were a week ago. It only makes sense for modders to charge for what they create.

    Personally, I think $7.50 is far too much to pay for a few more spell animations, so I'm just not going to buy it. It's as simple as that.

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    Immortal_Guy

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    @koolaid: Except it sort of does belong to society at large after you've released it for free. Or rather - that's the default position for intellectual property. Once you release it to the public domain it's no longer yours.

    Whether this actually applies in this case depends on how/if the modder decided to liscence the thing. Since mods without the permission of devs are something of a legal grey area anyway, I doubt it'll liscenced at all. In fact, if I downloaded the free version of that mod like 3 years ago, could I re-host that for free now? It's certainly not cool to use other people's stuff without their permission, but would there be anything a modder could do to stop something like that? Especially now that there's more than just a name and a credit at stake, how are modders going to protect their work?

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    tuxfool

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    #50  Edited By tuxfool
    @immortal_guy said:

    @koolaid: Except it sort of does belong to society at large after you've released it for free. Or rather - that's the default position for intellectual property. Once you release it to the public domain it's no longer yours.

    Whether this actually applies in this case depends on how/if the modder decided to liscence the thing. Since mods without the permission of devs are something of a legal grey area anyway, I doubt it'll liscenced at all. In fact, if I downloaded the free version of that mod like 3 years ago, could I re-host that for free now? It's certainly not cool to use other people's stuff without their permission, but would there be anything a modder could do to stop something like that? Especially now that there's more than just a name and a credit at stake, how are modders going to protect their work?

    No. The creator owns copyright, unless specifically stated you're not allowed to share it at all. So unless the author specifically relinquishes all rights it isn't public domain. Now, if the previous work had a license like the GPL, BSD or CC, then they shouldn't be allowed to remove it.

    This edit will also create new pages on Giant Bomb for:

    Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

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