Define: Cheap

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#1 Posted by TheLastNeo (443 posts) -

Perhaps this may be a provocative topic, but Im really curious to know what the general concensus of cheap is around here... 
 
Whether it be lag, mashing, repetitive B&B combos, or just plain old OMG IF YOU THROW ME ONE MORE TIME IM GONNA (Insert derogatory statement here). 
 
Obviously with any gaming community there are varying skill levels, and as such there always seems to be this constant bickering about things that may be considered "cheap" 
 
I read this a while ago: 
 
http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html  
 
And after having read that, it put alot of this "cheap-ness" into perspective..    
 
I have to agree that no matter how, or why, or what happens during a match, at the end of the day, its all about the win is it not?  Otherwise, why the hell would we continue to play if we constantly lost? 
 
 
Personally I play to win.. Granted I may lose often, but ultimately I play with the intent on winning, using what ever weapons my character may have at his/her disposal.
  
 
 
Discuss.

#2 Posted by OwnlyUzinWonHan (1485 posts) -

Constant Blanka electricity against non-projectile people is never fun.

#3 Posted by Stang (4726 posts) -

Scrubs who mash reversal dp/ultra during blockstrings in a laggy environment. Try that against me in person please.

#4 Posted by mubress (1517 posts) -

Blanka.

#5 Posted by ZombieHunterOG (3530 posts) -
@mubress said:
" Blanka. "
....no character is really cheap just the person playing them 
#6 Posted by jaycee13 (523 posts) -
@Stang said:
" Scrubs who mash reversal dp/ultra during blockstrings in a laggy environment. Try that against me in person please. "
this and other lag tactics that wouldnt work offline.
#7 Posted by mubress (1517 posts) -
@ZombieHunter: Yeah I know, just being provocative :)
 
Seriously though, I hate Blanka.
#8 Posted by demontium (4710 posts) -
@Stang said:
" Scrubs who mash reversal dp/ultra during blockstrings in a laggy environment. Try that against me in person please. "
Yeah I know. Throw up the random ultra in a laggy match during a normal string and you get fucked. 
 
Thats what you get for not being scrub.
#9 Posted by Stang (4726 posts) -
@mubress said:
" @ZombieHunter: Yeah I know, just being provocative :)  Seriously though, I hate Blanka. "
All sane people hate Blanka sir, you are not alone.
#10 Posted by AniMoney (957 posts) -
@mubress said:
" Blanka. "
yeppppppppp
#11 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19388 posts) -
@Stang said:
"Scrubs who mash reversal dp/ultra during blockstrings in a laggy environment. Try that against me in person please. "
But isn't that the whole thing with online?  The way I see it, online is one game, offline is another.  You need to adapt to both game situations.  If you're stuck in the 'offline' mentality while playing online, you'll obviously perform worse than if you thought of it as its own animal, and arranged your actions in accordance. 
 
To me, anything, anything is permitted for the win (sole exception: hacking).  If the opponent calls it cheap, it's just because they have no way of dealing with it and, instead of coming up with a plan to counter the opponent's "cheap tactic", they'll simply complain and call out "Cheap!"
#12 Posted by Fallen189 (5052 posts) -

A  buzzword used by idiots who cant learn to adapt

#13 Posted by Whisperkill (2969 posts) -

inexpensive 

#14 Posted by OwnlyUzinWonHan (1485 posts) -

I'm waiting for Jeffsekai to come in here and defend Blanka

#15 Posted by Stang (4726 posts) -
@FluxWaveZ said:
" @Stang said:
"Scrubs who mash reversal dp/ultra during blockstrings in a laggy environment. Try that against me in person please. "
But isn't that the whole thing with online?  The way I see it, online is one game, offline is another.  You need to adapt to both game situations.  If you're stuck in the 'offline' mentality while playing online, you'll obviously perform worse than if you thought of it as its own animal, and arranged your actions in accordance. 
 
To me, anything, anything is permitted for the win (sole exception: hacking).  If the opponent calls it cheap, it's just because they have no way of dealing with it and, instead of coming up with a plan to counter the opponent's "cheap tactic", they'll simply complain and call out "Cheap!" "
People can play how they want, I won't play people that resort to bullshit like that to win though. I don't care what any person thinks with regards to this. I will not resort to mashing to beat a masher, I will simply kick them off my list or kick them from my lobby if I recognize them. I have a 70% win rate with almost 11k games played, I did it the legit way. If I can do it, so can you.
#16 Posted by jakob187 (21759 posts) -

Define cheap? 
 
Tiger sh-tigersh-tiger sho-tiger-tig-tiger sh-TIGER DESTRUCTION! 
 
Did I do it right?

Online
#17 Posted by Stang (4726 posts) -
@jakob187 said:
" Define cheap?  Tiger sh-tigersh-tiger sho-tiger-tig-tiger sh-TIGER DESTRUCTION!  Did I do it right? "
No
 
And turbo is bullshit as well.
#18 Posted by JJOR64 (19065 posts) -

Sagat.

#19 Posted by Jeffsekai (7052 posts) -
@OwnlyUzinWonHan said:
" I'm waiting for Jeffsekai to come in here and defend Blanka "
Hi
 
Blanka isn't cheap, everything he dose is extremely unsafe just fucking hold downback and win. He's annoying sure but he isn't cheap.
#20 Posted by nick_verissimo (1401 posts) -

@mubress said:

" @ZombieHunter: Yeah I know, just being provocative :)  Seriously though, I hate Blanka. "

  Aww don't hate on blanka.  He's got that cute little explorer's outfit and all..
#21 Posted by OwnlyUzinWonHan (1485 posts) -
@Jeffsekai: How would you suggest Rufus go against a Blanka who's busting out constant Blanka balls?  
Don't mean to sound defensive, that's just my biggest problem against him
#22 Posted by Jeffsekai (7052 posts) -
@OwnlyUzinWonHan said:
" @Jeffsekai: How would you suggest Rufus go against a Blanka who's busting out constant Blanka balls?   Don't mean to sound defensive, that's just my biggest problem against him "
Wait for an opening and then Rush him down and never let him get away. Dive kick pressure (if done right) stuffs everything I do...even elec.
#23 Posted by OwnlyUzinWonHan (1485 posts) -
@Jeffsekai: Alright thanks, I try to do that when I play against him, but Blanka will catch me once, make me upset, and then I start playing sloppy.
See guys? We can co-operate!
#24 Posted by AniMoney (957 posts) -
@OwnlyUzinWonHan said:
" @Jeffsekai: How would you suggest Rufus go against a Blanka who's busting out constant Blanka balls?   Don't mean to sound defensive, that's just my biggest problem against him "
I thought Rufus c.hp punished blanka balls?
#25 Posted by OwnlyUzinWonHan (1485 posts) -
@AniMoney: For some reason, I start off playing smart and when the opportunity arises, I do that.
Slowly but surely however, all my offense becomes based on dive kicks. Really I just need to stop playing stupidly but hey, that'll come in time.
#26 Posted by StaticFalconar (4850 posts) -
@OwnlyUzinWonHan said:
" @Jeffsekai: How would you suggest Rufus go against a Blanka who's busting out constant Blanka balls?   Don't mean to sound defensive, that's just my biggest problem against him "
block the ball and cr. HP. 
 
  
 
To the OP:
Cheap is doing stuff outside the rules of the game. As long as there are stupid BS lag tactics around, I don't mean just using lag to throw unsafe moves safely, but also using lag to buffer ultra set ups, there will not be a big online tournament with big money with the same guys as the offline tournies since they are literally playing two different games. But that isn't cheap, just annoying and makes wins online mostly incredulous.  
 
 
What would be cheap however, is using a lag switch so the lag is always in your favor. Or if its an offline tournament, bullying your opponent so that their mind is scattered and cannot focus on the match., or physically cannot be in the match, say breaking thier legs before they walk in the room, etc. 
#27 Edited by Necrotrophic (261 posts) -

ill throw the entire match, if i play a turtle akuma, ill sit at the endof the screen.
 
other than quitting, ill do anything to win.
edit: oh, i dont induce lag either.
by anything i mean anything my char is capable of, even if its the same thing over and over

#28 Posted by Necrotrophic (261 posts) -

blanka isnt cheap.
everything he does is unsafe.
i used to beat blankas by blocking everything and then punish

#29 Posted by MrJared (399 posts) -

The word "cheap" doesn't exist in my fighting game vocabulary. It sounds like a pretty elitist thing to say, but really, folks who toss around the word "cheap" are making excuses for why they can't win, most of which come down to the silliest things.
 
"Its cheap to spam moves" is the one that kills me. If you know something is coming, why can't you do anything about it?

#30 Posted by MisterWaingro (66 posts) -

Lag is one thing that can get me angry about a loss, but everything else being equal, a win's a win's a win.  If I lost to someone being "cheap," it was my fault for not picking up on what they were doing, and I deserved to lose.  Learning how to take your lumps is part of the process of becoming a better player, I think.

#31 Posted by TheLegendofLuke (563 posts) -

Anyone who beats me is cheap/a hacker. This goes for all games, not just SF.

#32 Posted by lordofultima (6282 posts) -

I don't call things cheap, I often call them gay, dumb, retarded, etc. Never cheap.

#33 Posted by JeffGoldblum (3715 posts) -

If it's in the game, it's not cheap.

#34 Posted by JJWeatherman (14570 posts) -

In my opinion, a game as highly polished and perfected as Street Fighter can be played however you want to play it. Partly because it's a fictional activity, also because everything you can do in the game is most likely there for some kind of reason and everything has some form of counter. So basically in a game like SF4, anything goes.
 
However, I play a lot of NBA 2K10 and have played the 2K basketball games in online matches since 2K5 I think. It's games like this that I think can be "cheated" by players using "strategy" that is unrealistic. In SF, it's no problem because there is no real life comparison for any style of play. But in 2K10, I always want to play a realistically as possible but when I do that I get these people that take advantage of exploits that could never happen in real life and it's frustrating. I wont go into specifics as that could turn into a very long rant very fast.
 
Anyways, I guess I'm saying that a lot of times, if a game doesn't have any real life comparison to tell you what's the "right way to play", then anything goes.

#35 Edited by Fbomb (1168 posts) -
@JeffGoldblum said:

" If it's in the game, it's not cheap. "

Unless it's an exploit. I think if it's within a game's design, it's not cheap. I am, of course,  talking in general, not specifically to SF IV. 
Then again, it is cheap to spam one attack, because cheap is just a synonym for easy in this context. Spamming one move to beat an inexperienced player IS cheap. It's a cheap way to win, because you're forcing the other person to require greater skill to counter your easy spam attack. We just have come to accept that cheap is also a negative trait. Like Jared said, it could also be a positive, since an easy attack should have a predictability to it that makes it more susceptable to counter. So, yes it's cheap, but the onus is on the opponent to be better than the player who opts for the easy win option. However, that never really makes for a very compelling or satisfying match.
#36 Posted by TheLastNeo (443 posts) -
@Fbomb said:
" @JeffGoldblum said:

" If it's in the game, it's not cheap. "

......, but the onus is on the opponent to be better than the player who opts for the easy win option. However, that never really makes for a very compelling or satisfying match. "
 
Thats a great point!! 
 

#37 Posted by TheLastNeo (443 posts) -
@Stang said:
" @FluxWaveZ said:
" @Stang said:
"Scrubs who mash reversal dp/ultra during blockstrings in a laggy environment. Try that against me in person please. "
But isn't that the whole thing with online?  The way I see it, online is one game, offline is another.  You need to adapt to both game situations.  If you're stuck in the 'offline' mentality while playing online, you'll obviously perform worse than if you thought of it as its own animal, and arranged your actions in accordance. 
 
To me, anything, anything is permitted for the win (sole exception: hacking).  If the opponent calls it cheap, it's just because they have no way of dealing with it and, instead of coming up with a plan to counter the opponent's "cheap tactic", they'll simply complain and call out "Cheap!" "
..... I have a 70% win rate with almost 11k games played, I did it the legit way. If I can do it, so can you. "
 
Why is your way the "LEGIT" way?
#38 Posted by Scooper (7881 posts) -
@Stang said:
" @FluxWaveZ said:
" @Stang said:
"Scrubs who mash reversal dp/ultra during blockstrings in a laggy environment. Try that against me in person please. "
But isn't that the whole thing with online?  The way I see it, online is one game, offline is another.  You need to adapt to both game situations.  If you're stuck in the 'offline' mentality while playing online, you'll obviously perform worse than if you thought of it as its own animal, and arranged your actions in accordance. 
 
To me, anything, anything is permitted for the win (sole exception: hacking).  If the opponent calls it cheap, it's just because they have no way of dealing with it and, instead of coming up with a plan to counter the opponent's "cheap tactic", they'll simply complain and call out "Cheap!" "
People can play how they want, I won't play people that resort to bullshit like that to win though. I don't care what any person thinks with regards to this. I will not resort to mashing to beat a masher, I will simply kick them off my list or kick them from my lobby if I recognize them. I have a 70% win rate with almost 11k games played, I did it the legit way. If I can do it, so can you. "
I agree with this and that's why I get really frustrated by the mashers in Championship mode or Ranked. If you're playing against a masher in player matches, you have many games to both figure out your opponenent's a masher and then just end combos and blockstrings early and then you will get countless wins, then mashing becomes a huge detriment for your opponent. But in championship mode you only have 1 match against this person and that's it and by the time they've mashed a counter ultra against you it's already over and you've lost so that's what frustrates me. It's the fact that they get away with it simply because you only get to fight them once so mashing has no disadvantage for them.
 
Simply put it's just not sporting and I don't have time for gutter trash like that
 
You can spam as many sonic booms or tiger uppercuts as you like because for all of those things there's a way around that and that's just the way someone plays, a good barrage of fireballs or the very ready threat of someone who's not afraid to shoryuken is a great challange sometimes, but someone who is just mashing ultra or SRK or EX-Flashkick hoping to God there's going to be a bit of lag is really weak and lame in my opinion because I don't want to have to play 3 different kinds of games, 1 for offline, 1 for several player matches with someone and 1 for single championship/ranked matches.
#39 Posted by Renahzor (1001 posts) -

I don't call things cheap, but I do call some things downright stupid, and they're mainly matchup specific in SF, or lag specific.  Offline and in person I deal with just about everything no mater how bad I get whipped, and in long sets online against good opponents, I'm the same.  But the play changes so much against randoms online, it becomes un-fun to me in many ways.  I've relied on reaction speed to block certain things, and online you have to do some things via psychic intervention to block them (Im guilty of using this as well, stang knows too well about my random unsafe spiral arrows, but he was baiting them well).  
 
Thats all fine and dandy when you're playing a multi-game set and can pattern a person and bait some shit.  I get sooooo frustrated when im trying to re-learn block timing on headbutts every honda match, and they know you CANT block that shit on reaction with a little lag.  Mashing reversals into blockstrings, eating a Ryu SRK FADC Ultra between cr.lpx2, cr.lk because the timing was a millisecond off(I seriously damn near never miss this link, wtf), and all the other little annoying shit I get online just frustrates me to no end, until I say, "this is fucking stupid, why am I playing like this?"  Its not so much cheap as it is the matches not being fun, at all.
 
On the matchup side, I get super annoyed with good 'rog players.  I have all the tools, but theirs are just better, i have to play super unsafe, get a life lead, then turtle like crazy, and hope to open them up.  That is a matchup thing I find dumb, but I know what it is, I dont think its cheap for them to turtle, its goign to win if they do it right, it just means that matchup is really bad for me personally and I can say, "damn this is stupid, I wish I could find a way to break this guys defense down".
 
@TheLastNeo:
His "legit" way to win is basically giving the other person the benefit of the doubt on blockstrings and not mashing a reversal into that.  You see that shit every match online, to the point where i've taken a lot of the 1 frame links I normally use out of my game in randoms, -or- I'll stop normal blockstrings early and watch them scrub out an SRK and eat a punish.  Consistency for me is very bad online, because the timing is SO tight on 1 frames(game design), and I'm not a good plinker, I hit every input by itself(self imposed shitty play).  But, that doesn't step up my game, it makes me play stupid by not finishing safe knockdown links, or by doing unsafe combos instead that aren't 1 frames.  Basically it makes my offline play worse, because Im expecting stupid shit which people simply do not try offline, or even in long set matches with someone because mashing that reversal isnt getting you anywhere when the mixups and mindgames start. 

#40 Posted by MattyFTM (14432 posts) -

Cheap: A term used by inexperienced players when they are beaten by repetitive or unvaried moves that a more experienced player would easily be able to defend against.

Moderator
#41 Posted by MikkaQ (10344 posts) -

Playing all "cheap" like that play to win guy doesn't get you that far, even. A pro will shred them apart, especially with something as balanced as SF. 

#42 Edited by Scooper (7881 posts) -
@Renahzor said:

" I don't call things cheap, but I do call some things downright stupid, and they're mainly matchup specific in SF, or lag specific.  Offline and in person I deal with just about everything no mater how bad I get whipped, and in long sets online against good opponents, I'm the same.  But the play changes so much against randoms online, it becomes un-fun to me in many ways.  I've relied on reaction speed to block certain things, and online you have to do some things via psychic intervention to block them (Im guilty of using this as well, stang knows too well about my random unsafe spiral arrows, but he was baiting them well).  
 
Thats all fine and dandy when you're playing a multi-game set and can pattern a person and bait some shit.  I get sooooo frustrated when im trying to re-learn block timing on headbutts every honda match, and they know you CANT block that shit on reaction with a little lag.  Mashing reversals into blockstrings, eating a Ryu SRK FADC Ultra between cr.lpx2, cr.lk because the timing was a millisecond off(I seriously damn near never miss this link, wtf), and all the other little annoying shit I get online just frustrates me to no end, until I say, "this is fucking stupid, why am I playing like this?"  Its not so much cheap as it is the matches not being fun, at all.
 
On the matchup side, I get super annoyed with good 'rog players.  I have all the tools, but theirs are just better, i have to play super unsafe, get a life lead, then turtle like crazy, and hope to open them up.  That is a matchup thing I find dumb, but I know what it is, I dont think its cheap for them to turtle, its goign to win if they do it right, it just means that matchup is really bad for me personally and I can say, "damn this is stupid, I wish I could find a way to break this guys defense down".
 
@TheLastNeo: His "legit" way to win is basically giving the other person the benefit of the doubt on blockstrings and not mashing a reversal into that.  You see that shit every match online, to the point where i've taken a lot of the 1 frame links I normally use out of my game in randoms, -or- I'll stop normal blockstrings early and watch them scrub out an SRK and eat a punish.  Consistency for me is very bad online, because the timing is SO tight on 1 frames(game design), and I'm not a good plinker, I hit every input by itself(self imposed shitty play).  But, that doesn't step up my game, it makes me play stupid by not finishing safe knockdown links, or by doing unsafe combos instead that aren't 1 frames.  Basically it makes my offline play worse, because Im expecting stupid shit which people simply do not try offline, or even in long set matches with someone because mashing that reversal isnt getting you anywhere when the mixups and mindgames start.  "


You got it to a tee. It's impossible to even bother with these hard links online against a random because it's just not worth risking a massive EX-Shoryu or equivelent just for trying to get that extra bit of damage or stun. It really sucks having to be confined to only using boring and more sure combos because your opponenent is playing like a dick and there's nothing you can do about it. That's what annoys me in the end. I don't get annoyed when I loose due to my mistakes, I've grown up to instead take it on the chin and learn from it and I even really enjoy it when some amazing player works me over by Zoning me perfectaly, forcing me to make ridiculas mistakes. It's when I have no control over it is when I get annoyed (Ie. I try a harder link and misstime it or even get the timing perfect for offline but the specific type of lag for this 1 match makes me miss it leading to a mashed Ultra in the face which takes 70% of my health away in 1 go). That really pisses me off and just makes me also feel like "why am I even playing this, I'm not having fun at all).
#43 Posted by JokerSmilez (1293 posts) -

There is no such thing as "cheap". It is the responsibility of every player to use all the tools at their disposal to win.
 
A game can be broken or unbalanced, but that is the fault of the game and it's designers, not the player. 
 
I learned this playing Street Fighter 2 for the SNES back in the day. A friend of mine kept doing something (I don't even remember what) and I accused him of being "cheap". He reminded me "It's not cheap if it's in the game". That has always stuck with me. You'd be a fool not to exploit every weakness of a player, and the same goes with the weakness of a game.

#44 Edited by lordofultima (6282 posts) -

To be honest, even mashing reversal uppercut I don't consider cheap. It's up to you to read your opponent, and you should be able to figure out whether they're mashy type in a round or so. If not, you have yourself to blame. That said, I don't have much respect for blind mashers, but a well-thought out reversal through a link is not beside me, especially if I know what link they're doing and I know that it's hard.

#45 Edited by Napalm (9020 posts) -

The only tactic I find cheap is mashing. I can deal with anything else, and even if I can't, I'll at least know it's coming and I'll know how to defend against it better the next time. I used to call move spamming cheap... not so much anymore. I simply don't know how to defend against certain attacks, and sometimes it's hard to tell where something will hit. This is something I certainly need to improve upon.
 
@lordofultima: I am totally behind you on the well-timed reversal through a link. Sometimes I can catch a shoto in between a slow link with a Somersault Kick. Those are always the best reversals.

#46 Posted by TheHBK (5563 posts) -

I will follow the Giant Bomb philosophy.  If it's in the game, it ain't cheap.  I believe it was Ryan Davis who said it.  So get over it and stop being pussies if someone beat you using a really really simple strategy.

#47 Posted by Stang (4726 posts) -
@TheLastNeo said:
" @Stang said:
" @FluxWaveZ said:
" @Stang said:
"Scrubs who mash reversal dp/ultra during blockstrings in a laggy environment. Try that against me in person please. "
But isn't that the whole thing with online?  The way I see it, online is one game, offline is another.  You need to adapt to both game situations.  If you're stuck in the 'offline' mentality while playing online, you'll obviously perform worse than if you thought of it as its own animal, and arranged your actions in accordance. 
 
To me, anything, anything is permitted for the win (sole exception: hacking).  If the opponent calls it cheap, it's just because they have no way of dealing with it and, instead of coming up with a plan to counter the opponent's "cheap tactic", they'll simply complain and call out "Cheap!" "
..... I have a 70% win rate with almost 11k games played, I did it the legit way. If I can do it, so can you. "
 Why is your way the "LEGIT" way? "
Because I am not taking advantage of an element, lag, that is not designed to be there. I have said it a million times. If you mash through my strings offline, more power to you, I only have myself to blame for that because I am physically able to notice you mashing your buttons like a rabid monkey, and of course, there is no lag so if my strings are on  point like they should be, you couldn't mash through any way. Online, lag is variable, and even a millisecond of lag gives you the opportunity to prove you are a scrub and your frantic forward down forward punchpunchpunchpunch will get through. You are not good because you win like this. You will get owned in real life if you mash.
 
@Renahzor: high five!
 
@Scooper: high five!
#48 Posted by Icil (727 posts) -
@Scooper said: 
You got it to a tee. It's impossible to even bother with these hard links online against a random because it's just not worth risking a massive EX-Shoryu or equivelent just for trying to get that extra bit of damage or stun. It really sucks having to be confined to only using boring and more sure combos because your opponenent is playing like a dick and there's nothing you can do about it. That's what annoys me in the end. I don't get annoyed when I loose due to my mistakes, I've grown up to instead take it on the chin and learn from it and I even really enjoy it when some amazing player works me over by Zoning me perfectaly, forcing me to make ridiculas mistakes. It's when I have no control over it is when I get annoyed (Ie. I try a harder link and misstime it or even get the timing perfect for offline but the specific type of lag for this 1 match makes me miss it leading to a mashed Ultra in the face which takes 70% of my health away in 1 go). That really pisses me off and just makes me also feel like "why am I even playing this, I'm not having fun at all). "
Thank you, Scooper. This is exactly how I feel. At some point, cheapness blows the fun out of the game for both sides. Instead of some hard guideline for defining 'cheap', I think that if the other player is doing something that robs the fun from both sides of the match, it's cheap (or maybe, that person is cheap). It sucks because the aspects of the game and what make it so fun are taking a back seat to seeing the word 'WIN' on your screen or something equally superficial. 
 
Pro play's different, since getting money = fun, you just play to get that prize. Online, though, I want a fun game.
#49 Edited by Scooper (7881 posts) -
@Jeffsekai said:

" @OwnlyUzinWonHan said:

" @Jeffsekai: How would you suggest Rufus go against a Blanka who's busting out constant Blanka balls?   Don't mean to sound defensive, that's just my biggest problem against him "
Wait for an opening and then Rush him down and never let him get away. Dive kick pressure (if done right) stuffs everything I do...even elec. "
Hehe, I know ;D Cammy vs Blanka is kinda awesome.
 
@Napalm said:
"@lordofultima: I am totally behind you on the well-timed reversal through a link. Sometimes I can catch a shoto in between a slow link with a Somersault Kick. Those are always the best reversals. "
I'm also behind this. I used to do alot of Ex flashes in some situations and it really paid off. Although you can still kinda "mash" reversals for charge characters because you have some time where your charge is maintained after you move the stick away from downback, the time it takes before your charge runs out though is so small it kinda feels like a reversal on SFII or something and I'm totally behind that, that sort of thing is not soo easy. I mean, if a shoto does a single SRK motion and hits punch during my blockstring and it goes through and hits me leading to an FADC Ultra, I'm totally fine with that because that person anticipated when the link or block string was most likely to be broken and skillfully timed it just right to reverse me. I've done it myself a few times and it's a great feeling knowing you've timed it just right. It's when some random dude is mashing like Blackhawkdown hitting the punch a million times and getting a counter ultra through which wins the game. That stuff is stupid.
#50 Posted by Stang (4726 posts) -
@Napalm: Yeah, you have hit me with your share of flash kicks at the end of long strings. Those reversals are legit and can't be hated on, it is not like you can mash flash kick.
 
@lordofultima: I agree. Against Ken a properly timed reversal is godlike, if you can figure out kara patterns and hit me with a dp (NOT A FUCKING MASHED DP THOUGH) when I go for the throw, you just gained control of the match. Now I have to think twice about ending strings with kara throws :/

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