Guile got nerfed and I'm f'ing pissed!

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#1 Edited by Napalm (9020 posts) -

lulz

#2 Posted by keyhunter (3207 posts) -

my experience is that I am on a 20 win streak with guile and no one can step to him.

#3 Posted by keyhunter (3207 posts) -
@Napalm: Whats your gamertag. I'll fight you.
#4 Posted by Fr0Br0 (3101 posts) -

Meh, I win with him most so I think he's just fine.

#5 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -
@keyhunter said:
" @Napalm: Whats your gamertag. I'll fight you. "
360 - Faster Disaster
#6 Posted by Stang (4726 posts) -

Sorry to say it, but it sounds like you just are not very good. I come across a butt load of good Guile's in G2.

#7 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -
@Stang said:
" Sorry to say it, but it sounds like you just are not very good. I come across a butt load of good Guile's in G2. "
So because I have a complaint that makes me automatically suck? That doesn't make much sense. I never declared I was the greatest Guile player. I'm pretty average, at least, The most noticeable difference at my level is low to non-existent hit priority.
#8 Posted by ImperiousRix (2963 posts) -

I've faced a lot a lot of very good Guiles.  I feel like his normals are very good, and although he might have some low priority in certain areas, it's for the sake of balance.
His sonic boom shenanigans are still amazingly hard to defend against.

#9 Posted by Stang (4726 posts) -

You complaining about the character says enough. If you are not satisfied with his traits, why don't ya...hmm I don't know....use somebody else? Take a look at Dhalsim, at face value he is horrible, is he not? With a proficient player, he will pulverize you.

And fuck tiers. Unless you are at tourny level play, they mean nothing. I can smash Sagat's, and get destroyed by Dan's. Tiers have nothing to do with sucking ass.

#10 Posted by Jeffsekai (7052 posts) -

I am just going to repeat what a few others have said, if you reaslly berlive that about Guile or any chacter in Street Fighter 4 then you arnt very good. Everyone is amazing if played right, Guile players always give me tons of trouble when I fight them...never had an easy Guile match.

Your doing it wrong.

#11 Posted by JJOR64 (19065 posts) -

Guile is a beast in HDR.

#12 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19388 posts) -
@JJOR64 said:
"Guile is a beast in HDR."

That's probably why he says he got nerfed.
Online
#13 Posted by JJOR64 (19065 posts) -
@FluxWaveZ said:
" @JJOR64 said:
"Guile is a beast in HDR."
That's probably why he says he got nerfed. "
Yeah.  :P  I wish HDR Honda was also in SFIV.  Honda got boosted in HDR.
#14 Posted by Ben_H (3430 posts) -
@JJOR64 said:
" @FluxWaveZ said:
" @JJOR64 said:
"Guile is a beast in HDR."
That's probably why he says he got nerfed. "
Yeah.  :P  I wish HDR Honda was also in SFIV.  Honda got boosted in HDR. "
I'm thankful for the lack of T. Hawk in SF4.  Some of his moves (Specifically that one grab and his dives) are much too powerful in HDR (When they do up to almost half a bar of damage and are difficult to block/unblockable in the case of the grab) plus he's no fun to play as (Do you know anyone who plays as T. Hawk?  I don't).  In The New Challengers for the Genesis he was a pushover.  I'm talking playing against the computer but just the difference in the move power is quite noticeable.
#15 Posted by LiquidPrince (16175 posts) -

Guile and Vega are the only people where I don't know how to pull of their Ultra's.

#16 Posted by PhaggyBigNastyMcKill (564 posts) -

If you bought SF4 the day it came out and it took you til now to find out Guile got nerfed, you probably aint that good to begin with.
Here Facepalm Napalm, one of the biggest stage of them all, evo and guile is being used, maybe you can learn something from A good guile player instead of the masses of bitchy people that don't really know how to play Guile.

  


No turtling involved and Guile controlled the match. If you want a character that has to depend on thier ultras and special moves to win, pick someone like Rufus. Guile in SF4 is best when you know how to use his normals to create pressure. Doesn't even need the flash kick, just give him sonic boom and all his kickass normals.
#17 Posted by End_Boss (3220 posts) -
@PhaggyBigNastyMcKill: That was an exciting matchup. Thanks for the link.
#18 Posted by Darklyte510 (77 posts) -

Yeah once a good Guile has you in a corner, the amount of pressure he can apply is insane! I've played a few good Guiles that almost completely removed all of my options when they trapped me in a corner.

#19 Posted by Fallen189 (5052 posts) -

I hate guiles, hardest character to get in on. And with Chun/Fei mains, can be a nightmare.

#20 Edited by The_A_Drain (3973 posts) -

Everybody is pretty balanced in SFIV tbh, it's the most balanced first iteration of any fighting game ever. Guile took a few hits but he also gained a few tools, as lifelong Guile player, he's just as good as he ever was in the overall runnings, so no, train more, chat shit less.

#21 Edited by PureRok (4236 posts) -

God that guy talks way too much in that video. I understand a commentator is supposed to commentate... but damn, he doesn't have to give us an essay on the game. Lay off the caffeine.

#22 Posted by mubress (1517 posts) -
@PureRok said:
" God that guy talks way too much in that video. I understand a commentator is supposed to commentate... but damn, he doesn't have to give us an essay on the game. Lay off the caffeine. "
I know, Right? He was like that the whole tournament
#23 Posted by nohthink (1223 posts) -

Cammy got effing nerfed. I am so sad. She is still my primary character but damn she's really weak

#24 Edited by Napalm (9020 posts) -
@PhaggyBigNastyMcKill said:
No turtling involved and Guile controlled the match. If you want a character that has to depend on thier ultras and special moves to win, pick someone like Rufus. Guile in SF4 is best when you know how to use his normals to create pressure. Doesn't even need the flash kick, just give him sonic boom and all his kickass normals. "
Congratulations! You can give a textbook definition of how a Guile character plays!

I'm not stupid. I already made it clear that I wasn't acting like I was the best Guile player who just can't play. I'm just voicing some concerns I've experienced about the player in relation to the game and the rest of the characters.

I'm also really starting to get sick of this whole internet phenomenon of because I have some issues with a character/game design, then automatically I am the worst SFIV player. Either bring some constructive talk about the character or your matchups (as some people have done) or don't bother opening up the topic.

Thanks.
#25 Posted by King9999 (615 posts) -
@PureRok said:
" God that guy talks way too much in that video. I understand a commentator is supposed to commentate... but damn, he doesn't have to give us an essay on the game. Lay off the caffeine. "
All that means is that he did his job well.  A good commentator should be able to tell you what's going on or why something happened.
#26 Posted by Scooper (7881 posts) -

Guile's my favourite character to play but I almost never use his Ultra or Super, it's so situational and annoying for me to pull off in clinch situations. I usualy like to just get in there on the offensive with him and play a throw mixup game.

#27 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -
@Scooper said:
" Guile's my favorite character to play but I almost never use his Ultra or Super, it's so situational and annoying for me to pull off in clinch situations. I usually like to just get in there on the offensive with him and play a throw mixup game. "
I've found it's way better to use his Gauge on EX Somersaults and Sonic Booms when I can. As I've linked in my first post, it's amazing how little damage his Super/Ultra does comparatively to everyone else. It's such a shame too, because he has nice looking special moves.
#28 Edited by PureRok (4236 posts) -
@King9999 said:
" @PureRok said:
" God that guy talks way too much in that video. I understand a commentator is supposed to commentate... but damn, he doesn't have to give us an essay on the game. Lay off the caffeine. "
All that means is that he did his job well.  A good commentator should be able to tell you what's going on or why something happened. "
If you actually watched the video you wouldn't be saying that. He wasn't "doing his job well", he was being a flaming blabbermouth. He wasn't talking about what was happening on the screen, he was just talking about some bullshit that nobody gives the fuck about. Actually, if you watched the video all the way through, you'd see that he never shuts his mouth for more than a second. He is constantly talking. It doesn't help that he has one of the most annoying voices I've ever heard, as well as an annoying way of talking.

Actually, just from that video I know that I don't like that guy and probably never would.
#29 Posted by King9999 (615 posts) -
@PureRok said:
" @King9999 said:
" @PureRok said:
" God that guy talks way too much in that video. I understand a commentator is supposed to commentate... but damn, he doesn't have to give us an essay on the game. Lay off the caffeine. "
All that means is that he did his job well.  A good commentator should be able to tell you what's going on or why something happened. "
If you actually watched the video you wouldn't be saying that. He wasn't "doing his job well", he was being a flaming blabbermouth. He wasn't talking about what was happening on the screen, he was just talking about some bullshit that nobody gives the fuck about. Actually, if you watched the video all the way through, you'd see that he never shuts his mouth for more than a second. He is constantly talking. It doesn't help that he has one of the most annoying voices I've ever heard, as well as an annoying way of talking.Actually, just from that video I know that I don't like that guy and probably never would. "
I did watch the video, and I stand by what I said.
#30 Posted by Scooper (7881 posts) -
@Napalm said:
" @Scooper said:
" Guile's my favorite character to play but I almost never use his Ultra or Super, it's so situational and annoying for me to pull off in clinch situations. I usually like to just get in there on the offensive with him and play a throw mixup game. "
I've found it's way better to use his Gauge on EX Somersaults and Sonic Booms when I can. As I've linked in my first post, it's amazing how little damage his Super/Ultra does comparatively to everyone else. It's such a shame too, because he has nice looking special moves. "
I know, his Ultra is one of my favourites to look at and that last boot in the face has so much energy you feel it yourself, then you look at the health bar and see how much that final boot does and it's funny.
#31 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -

I think a jump in fierce kick + standing fierce kick might do more damage than his Ultra. That's sad.

#32 Posted by The_A_Drain (3973 posts) -
@Napalm said:
"I think a jump in fierce kick + standing fierce kick might do more damage than his Ultra. That's sad."

Ultra damage is dependant on a bunch of different situations. Most peoples ulta damage is unimpressive until it's fully charged. Besides, if you're honestly saying that then you have no idea what an ultra is for, ultras have a massive advantage, when you set them up they are GUARANTEED damage. It's free damage, you get it for nothing, mostly the setups are easy too. Also, Guiles has nice priority and is an amazing anti-air. You can't measure the power of everything by simply damage alone, you have to look at everything and how it all goes together, if you can't do that you have no right to comment on balance.
#33 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -
@The_A_Drain said:
" @Napalm said:
"I think a jump in fierce kick + standing fierce kick might do more damage than his Ultra. That's sad."
Ultra damage is dependant on a bunch of different situations. Most peoples ulta damage is unimpressive until it's fully charged. Besides, if you're honestly saying that then you have no idea what an ultra is for, ultras have a massive advantage, when you set them up they are GUARANTEED damage. It's free damage, you get it for nothing, mostly the setups are easy too. Also, Guiles has nice priority and is an amazing anti-air. You can't measure the power of everything by simply damage alone, you have to look at everything and how it all goes together, if you can't do that you have no right to comment on balance. "
Well, first off... Guile's Ultra has absolutely no set up, unless you are the dude who made the Guile combo video and can short low kick to Sonic Boom straight into an Ultra, in which most people can't do anyway. There were plenty of times when I executed the Ultra and the character was jumping and slightly in front of me and the first Flash Kick would connect, and then they would fly behind me missing the two Flash Kicks that followed. Saying something like, "it's a great anti-air" is kind of dumb, because if you're using the Ultra to knock somebody out of the air, you might as well use an EX Flash Kick. It does about half the damage and you don't waste an entire meter kicking somebody out of the air.

The only thing Guile's Ultra has going for him is the fucking beautiful motion of the move. That's really about it.

#34 Edited by The_A_Drain (3973 posts) -
@Napalm said:
"@The_A_Drain said:
" @Napalm said:
"I think a jump in fierce kick + standing fierce kick might do more damage than his Ultra. That's sad."
Ultra damage is dependant on a bunch of different situations. Most peoples ulta damage is unimpressive until it's fully charged. Besides, if you're honestly saying that then you have no idea what an ultra is for, ultras have a massive advantage, when you set them up they are GUARANTEED damage. It's free damage, you get it for nothing, mostly the setups are easy too. Also, Guiles has nice priority and is an amazing anti-air. You can't measure the power of everything by simply damage alone, you have to look at everything and how it all goes together, if you can't do that you have no right to comment on balance. "
Well, first off... Guile's Ultra has absolutely no set up, unless you are the dude who made the Guile combo video and can short low kick to Sonic Boom straight into an Ultra, in which most people can't do anyway. There were plenty of times when I executed the Ultra and the character was jumping and slightly in front of me and the first Flash Kick would connect, and then they would fly behind me missing the two Flash Kicks that followed. Saying something like, "it's a great anti-air" is kind of dumb, because if you're using the Ultra to knock somebody out of the air, you might as well use an EX Flash Kick. It does about half the damage and you don't waste an entire meter kicking somebody out of the air.The only thing Guile's Ultra has going for him is the fucking beautiful motion of the move. That's really about it."

Well, to counter your first point. Who fucking cares? If you can't do the setups, that's your problem not the games, some characters have more difficult setups than others, they always have and always will. The fact remains that the setup is there, and perfectly viable to use, just difficult, many characters have difficult setups, and many characters have easier setups. Boohoo. It also varies from person to person, for example I can't do FADC ultra hadoken for beans, but I can pull off Balrogs or Rufus' almost everytime.

For your second point, if you time it with any sort of thought whatsoever, both hits will connect, if you just unleash it because "ZOMG HES IN THE AIR!!!" it will miss. Again, not the games problem, certainly not a balance problem either. As for 'wasting' a whole meter, what else are you going to do with it? It's their to be used, might as well go for it, land it cleanly and it gains you a significant psychological advantage for the next few moments. Besides, saving EX flash kicks to get out of other situations is a much better tactic. Again, forethought.

Guile has plenty going for him, if you can't see that i'll reiterate the problem is with you and not the game or its level of balance.

Edit:

The feeling of frustration is also amplified because everyones a runner this time around, it's very closely balanced everybody except maybe Vega stands a serious chance in almost every match, the only person who really excells is Sagat, but not by as big a margin as he used to. So that doesn't help, the fact that he's lost a couple options here and there, and been updated into the games style of play, isn't all that bad, it just feels bad because you're being beat by characters who used to be crap but are now on an even footing with you.
#35 Posted by ImperiousRix (2963 posts) -

I still just say if you're really having that many problems with him, maybe you should just try somebody else until you can get some semblance of confidence up.  I personally had no intentions of playing as Vega when I first got the game, but I started playing as him, was winning matches, got really comfortable with all his normals, learned some bread and butter tactics, learned the set ups, etc.
If you REALLY wanna play as Guile, you'll do the same thing, but if you're dead set on the belief he's garbage, just play as somebody you think ISN'T garbage.

#36 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -

I don't think he's garbage, not in the least. I do get a little frustrated sometimes because it seems other characters have significant advantages over what Guile has now. The only real issue I have is really priority hits. The other ones are really ones I've witnessed or only had a couple encounters where it became a problem.

#37 Posted by Stang (4726 posts) -

All you can do is keep practicing. Play him right and you will make your opponents rage and in turn play like trash. He may not be great according to the bullshit tier list, but he is far from sucking.

#38 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -

Yeah, I played against a dude last night and ended up sparring with him and he exposed a lot of flaws in my game. I jump too much. Haha.

#39 Posted by Capitalism (72 posts) -

I am a pretty decent player. im currently a G2-E but i always play against higher ranked people g2-c-> and i think ive only beaten one guile.

Guile is the one i have the hardest time against, period. I play Ryu

#40 Posted by Stang (4726 posts) -

@Napalm

My GT is Da Stang, if you ever want to give it a go feel free to add me! Always up for some new competition.

#41 Posted by The_A_Drain (3973 posts) -
@Napalm said:
"I don't think he's garbage, not in the least. I do get a little frustrated sometimes because it seems other characters have significant advantages over what Guile has now. The only real issue I have is really priority hits. The other ones are really ones I've witnessed or only had a couple encounters where it became a problem."

Everybody has tough matchups unfortunately be it because the player doesn't have experience with the opposing character or playstyle, or the character has weaknesses against him, guile has bad matchups like any other character :) And like I said before, the reason it seems people have a significant advantage over guile is because they are on an equal footing more or less nowadays, so it just seems like they gained a significant power boost and guile did not, it's because guile was already hella good to begin with.
#42 Posted by animateria (3265 posts) -

I've seen some good Guiles, but the general agreement is that he is pretty under powered.

But hey he isn't the worst...

 *Looks at Vega (Claw)

#43 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -

It would probably help if I had an arcade stick, no? When we demoed the game at my work they had fight sticks set up, and that felt WAY easier to play on. I'm using the 360 controller and it's certainly becoming a problem and exposing flaws with the controller + my game.

#44 Edited by The_A_Drain (3973 posts) -
@Napalm said:
" It would probably help if I had an arcade stick, no? When we demoed the game at my work they had fight sticks set up, and that felt WAY easier to play on. I'm using the 360 controller and it's certainly becoming a problem and exposing flaws with the controller + my game. "
Ahh yeah definately, they take a while to get used to but trying to play with the 360 d-pad is like trying to drive with boxing gloves on.

Edit: or some of the things Linkyshinks mentioned in the toher thread, that Saitek pad looks really nice and apparently the d-pad is solid.
#45 Posted by Ben_H (3430 posts) -
@nohthink said:
" Cammy got effing nerfed. I am so sad. She is still my primary character but damn she's really weak "
Could you elaborate?  I'm planning on getting this game next Friday and I main as Cammy and Akuma so I would like to know any changes to them.
#46 Posted by The_A_Drain (3973 posts) -
@Ben_H said:
" @nohthink said:
" Cammy got effing nerfed. I am so sad. She is still my primary character but damn she's really weak "
Could you elaborate?  I'm planning on getting this game next Friday and I main as Cammy and Akuma so I would like to know any changes to them. "
He's either joking, or cannot play Cammy properly

She got a major boost and is very difficult to play against now, even moreso than before, sure her hooligan stuff is a little slow, but the two main attacks, cannon spike and cannon arrow are just as good as ever, and against some characters almost impossible to get around. She's also easier to play now input-wise, the motions are more in line with shoto's motions.

Her normals are pretty good too and she has some snappy combos too. Her ultra's pretty nice as well, don't know if it has a lot of setups but it hits low so it's not hard to land anyway against aggressive foes.
#47 Posted by GunstarRed (5459 posts) -

I played an absurdly aggressive Guile player last night and he didnt use hardly any supers, ultras  or flashkicks... he used a lot of sonic booms followed by that roundhouse punch of his and instead of always following a slow sonic booom he would focus-dash-throw... I beat him because he started turtling in the final round as a kind of last defense... but watching him play was pretty impressive


@Fallen189:

Ive always found Chuni-li to be the anti-guile...I have  almost no problem aslong as you keep up a constant spam of kikoukens to block his sonic booms it means he has to move in for the kill which really opens him up for a beating.

#48 Posted by Renahzor (1001 posts) -

I main Cammy and her game revolves around wake-up shenanigans. All of her drills are unsafe, as are air cannon strikes, cannon spikes etc on block.  Basically you MUST know how to 1 frame link some of her jab combos to hit confirm, and you need to be good at FADC out of anything unsafe, namely RH spiral arrow and cannon spike to dash out of bad situations and use her throw/block/CS mixup.  You also must get very good at setups starting and comboing in/out of TK cannon strike(performed very low to the ground via input of TK motion: Down, downback, back, upforward, kick).  I have an insanely hard time against guile, rog, and ryu players, especially who know that everything she has cannot hit a crouch blocking opponent, and her crossup doesn't connect on most of the cast (hooligan combo no longer connects on a crouching opponent).

That said, guile is in a similar boat, and you need to know how to go from turtling to being very good at corner trapping with linked combos.  If guile gets you in a corner you should be at a severe disadvantage, and most characters are.

#49 Posted by The_A_Drain (3973 posts) -
@Renahzor:

Man, I guess I just suck against Cammy then lol. She always utterly destroys my Rog :\
#50 Posted by Renahzor (1001 posts) -

Not to get too deep into the matchup, but cr.rh out ranges most of her pokes and is exceedingly safe, cr.jab is very very good against anything you see coming from range (except jumpins).  If you block a drill you can get a free jab, jab, mk, headbutt, ultra(link timing is very important for most characters, i suck at it personally).  Blocked spikes can be punished, i believe by headbutt, but also cr.rh if you cant react in time.  Cr.fp can act as a good anti-air if you cant headbutt on reaction.  You want to avoid being knocked down, because a good cammy will pressure the crap out of you, and you're stuck in a guessing game.  She can use TK cannon strike to beat low jabs(mostly) and tech throw attempts, block, throw, crossup cannon strike into all of the above, or put you back in a block string, that ends in FADC -> throw, TKCS, or restsart block string and if these connect she can end them in a FADC ultra.  Really, its all about not getting knocked down, and hopefully guessing right when it does happen so you dont lose too much.

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