If they have a habit of spamming out a CS after Drill (this happens a lot online because lag makes it near impossible to punish, and im as guilty of it as the rest), maybe try some jab poke -> combos and see how it works, if not just block out the CS and dash punch(works on any blocked CS).  Once you get her knocked down if you crouch at about sweep range she has no real options, CS will go over your head and you can easily bait it if they're abusing it.  She has no real armor breaks (only reversals like everyone, spinning backfist which you'll likely never see, and rh.drill from very close for the 2 hit) so you can get away with a few EX dashes/overheads, just dont get cute when she has ultra.

" @PureRok said:

" @King9999 said:

" @PureRok said:

" God that guy talks way too much in that video. I understand a commentator is supposed to commentate... but damn, he doesn't have to give us an essay on the game. Lay off the caffeine. "

All that means is that he did his job well.  A good commentator should be able to tell you what's going on or why something happened. "

If you actually watched the video you wouldn't be saying that. He wasn't "doing his job well", he was being a flaming blabbermouth. He wasn't talking about what was happening on the screen, he was just talking about some bullshit that nobody gives the fuck about. Actually, if you watched the video all the way through, you'd see that he never shuts his mouth for more than a second. He is constantly talking. It doesn't help that he has one of the most annoying voices I've ever heard, as well as an annoying way of talking.Actually, just from that video I know that I don't like that guy and probably never would. "

I did watch the video, and I stand by what I said. "

I think your real opening is his link combos that come out of crouch jab.  Thats probably why i have a hard time because i have a TON of guys near here that play rog and are very good at 1 frame links into his headbutt combos.  Her drills are more punishable the closer she is when she starts them, if shes at max range and drills you can almost bet that theres going to be a qucik followup CS, so pay attention to the spacing.  crouch jab has a chance to flat out beat drills on startup as well so from sweep range she has to be very careful.  she would be particularly vulnerable to headbutt if shes paying very high pressure on knockdowns, but alot of us are trying to bait that headbutt to block and punish.

I am unsure but i do not believe her crossup lands on rog, so be prepared for the empty jump-over and throw her or headbutt counter.

Things of note for 'rog vs cammy:

1. Cammy cannot hit a crouch blocking opponent unless she jumps, and if she jumps she eats headbutt.  If you arent charged crouching HP acts as a decent anti air as well
2. Try to zone her at right near cr.RH range using jabs to keep her from dash throwing & to shut down mkXXdrill.  If she drills from this range theres a good chance you can punish with a crouching jab->combo of your choice.
3. Learn the 1 frame link for crouching: jab, jab, mk, headbutt, ultra.  im not sure on the mk, but its a different punch there that combos into headbutt.  This link makes it completely hit confirm-able and turns blocked drills into an ultra for you.  Just dont miss the jab link, or a spammed DP will get ya.
4. Do not stand into hooligan, stay crouching and jab, you can again start the jab link combos from this.
5. On knockdown, try to bait reversal CSs.  you can do this several ways.  Short rush punches before wakeup, stand close but outside throw range, charge focus and dash back, etc etc.  After you bait a few CSs that should calm her down on that, and you can overhead EX rush punch on wakeup once you're pretty certain she wont be reversing it.
6. Blocked CSs should be punishable by a simple rush punch, dont forget you can cancel some of his rushes into super.  
7. Many rushes are safe on block, and when started from sweep range they really cant be reacted to fast enough for reversals etc, this can bait some CSs you can block and punish as well.
8. If caught in her wakeup games, headbutt beats throw attempt, poke attempts, and TK cannon strike, but loses to block, so try to outthink her in that regard and watch for the crossup C.strike!
   

Guile wrecks.  Less QQ, more pew-pew, sir.

You can say that someone doesn't know how to play Guile all you want, but tournament results don't lie, and they tell us that Guile is not a winning character. Justin Wong, who plays the entire cast with more proficiency than any of you, has gone on record on a Gootecks podcast saying that Guile is the worst character in the arcade version of the game. His anti-airs are unreliable, his damage is low, his ultra is terrible, and he stuns quickly. Guile has virtually no way of dealing with crossups and good, meaty jump-ins on wakeup (other than his ultra, which curiously heat-seeks crossups), no effective pressure game, no scary mixups, and simply requires twice as much work for the same amount of damage that you get with a more solid character. You want to see a sick Guile? Check out L.A. area player Fuson909. That guy looks like he's filming a combo video vs. live opponents, but it just isn't enough.

"You can say that someone doesn't know how to play Guile all you want, but tournament results don't lie, and they tell us that Guile is not a winning character. Justin Wong, who plays the entire cast with more proficiency than any of you, has gone on record on a Gootecks podcast saying that Guile is the worst character in the arcade version of the game. His anti-airs are unreliable, his damage is low, his ultra is terrible, and he stuns quickly. Guile has virtually no way of dealing with crossups and good, meaty jump-ins on wakeup (other than his ultra, which curiously heat-seeks crossups), no effective pressure game, no scary mixups, and simply requires twice as much work for the same amount of damage that you get with a more solid character. You want to see a sick Guile? Check out L.A. area player Fuson909. That guy looks like he's filming a combo video vs. live opponents, but it just isn't enough.

In high-level play, Guile really isn't a reliable choice. His bad matchups versus characters like Sagat, Ryu, Blanka, Rufus, and Akuma mean he'll run into trouble pretty frequently.

"

I'd like to know what you're actually trying to say, because all I can see here is circular logic and contradictions. You can't say that Guile is both a "viable choice" and that he "just happens to have his worst matchups" against the most popular characters, because those things are mutually exclusive in high-level play. You then go on to say that "tiers barely matter" and that "only matchups" do. Do you even understand that the current japanese tier list for the game is a matchup chart? Guile is not a tournament winning character, and you present no platform to argue to the contrary other than a predictably feeble appeal to our supposed ignorance of how skilled the japanese are. Unless you're going to present specific evidence that picking Guile is anything other than a pointless handicap at the highest level, then perhaps this discussion can continue.

The topic creator is not at "the highest level." Nobody in this thread is at "the highest level." Guile can hold his own very well when casuals are playing...you know the type of people in this thread. Blaming a character for your losing tendencies when in reality you just suck is ridiculous. That would be the case in this thread.

When looking at high level play, I agree, he is near the bottom of the totem pole. Did that make your day?

"I'd like to know what you're actually trying to say, because all I can see here is circular logic and contradictions. You can't say that Guile is both a "viable choice" and that he "just happens to have his worst matchups" against the most popular characters, because those things are mutually exclusive in high-level play. You then go on to say that "tiers barely matter" and that "only matchups" do. Do you even understand that the current japanese tier list for the game is a matchup chart? Guile is not a tournament winning character, and you present no platform to argue to the contrary other than a predictably feeble appeal to our supposed ignorance of how skilled the japanese are. Unless you're going to present specific evidence that picking Guile is anything other than a pointless handicap at the highest level, then perhaps this discussion can continue. "

"@Flushes said:

"I'd like to know what you're actually trying to say, because all I can see here is circular logic and contradictions. You can't say that Guile is both a "viable choice" and that he "just happens to have his worst matchups" against the most popular characters, because those things are mutually exclusive in high-level play. You then go on to say that "tiers barely matter" and that "only matchups" do. Do you even understand that the current japanese tier list for the game is a matchup chart? Guile is not a tournament winning character, and you present no platform to argue to the contrary other than a predictably feeble appeal to our supposed ignorance of how skilled the japanese are. Unless you're going to present specific evidence that picking Guile is anything other than a pointless handicap at the highest level, then perhaps this discussion can continue. "

It's not more a pointless handicap than picking a myriad of other characters is my point. You people are making him out to be the absolute worst character on the planet (You flat out stated so yourself) when the fact of the matter is that he is not, and even if that were true, the distance between the top and bottom characters is so small in SFIV that ANYBODY is still a viable choice. Just because you don't see people winning tournaments with him doesn't mean he can't.Also, tiers don't matter, like I said, because the characters are so closely balanced that apart from maybe Sagat on top and Vega on bottom, everybody is around about the same level. Which is why specific character matchups become more prevelant than any rankings list ever could, and yes I know the Japanese tier list is an amalgamation if characters matchup results, durrr how else do you get a tier list? I'm arguing the results that make up that tier list are far more important than the list itself. Overall, guile does pretty well against a lot of characters, his worst matchups just happen to be people like Sagat and Ryu. It's shitty luck of the draw that's all, he still does well against a lot of characters.Besides, who the fuck cares about player skill, i'm not talking about player skill at all here i'm simply talking about the potential of the character, what his options are and what he's capable of. I couldn't give a shit that somebody (myself included) cannot perform those actions, it's not relevant. Otherwise we could all march around going "WAhhh El Fuerte is the worst character because I don't know how to play him" Given that Guile has more options and is more versatile than just over half the characters in the game (console version at least) i'd say he's hardly on the bottom of the pile. Even in the arcade version he still has a few advantages which make him viable, but I wouldn't advise picking him in a tournament any more or less than I would advise another character, you go with what you are comfortable with. Just look at Daigo, evidence that character strength alone is irrelevent to these things it's all about how you play, Ryu isn't the absolute top tier and never has been, he's always been considered average to top, yet Daigo smacks around supposed god tier character with him every single time. Guile has not been nerfed all that greatly, it just feels that way because other characters who were shitty before, got a bit of a boost that's all."

I wiped the floor with an Akuma player tonight. Patient zoning did the trick.

Ah yes, the obligatory "I just beat this x with y, therefore, x is fine" blanket statement. Moving on.

I think one also has to take into account that every fighting game usually has one, two, maybe three powerfighters who are just a good bit better than all of the other players. In the case of SFIV, I'd say that was Ryu, M. Bison and Sagat. These players aren't impossible to beat, but they prove to be a much tougher opponent than say, an E. Honda or a Blanka.

OK so they need to fix the damage of his ultra and make the recovery time after a sonic boom even faster.... Also make the flash kick a priority over all the opponents air attacks (just like back in the day with SF2) 
 
almost forgot.... they need to change the super and ultra to a double fireball motion... WTF

Holy necro thread. I think it can be said that Guile can absolutely RAEP if you focus on his normals. I've had my fair share of troubles against smart Guile players that use his huge reach to their advantage over sitting there and flash kicking/sonic boom spamming.

lmao

" Sorry to say it, but it sounds like you just are not very good. I come across a butt load of good Guile's in G2. "

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?! This shit is like eight months old. Fuck you, whoever the fuck bumped this. I'll never escape my past. :[ :[

" ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?! This shit is like eight months old. Fuck you, whoever the fuck bumped this. I'll never escape my past. :[ :[ "

" @Napalm said:

" ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?! This shit is like eight months old. Fuck you, whoever the fuck bumped this. I'll never escape my past. :[ :[ "

Its 6 months old. THE RAGE IS BLINDING YOUR VISION "

" @Stang said:

" Sorry to say it, but it sounds like you just are not very good. I come across a butt load of good Guile's in G2. "

This. "

lmao this should be a good read later when i'm bored

"ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?! This shit is like eight months old. Fuck you, whoever the fuck bumped this. I'll never escape my past. :[ :[ "

I liked reading through this again. Thanks, whoever bumped this.

" I liked reading through this again. Thanks, whoever bumped this. "

" @Scooper said:

" I liked reading through this again. Thanks, whoever bumped this. "

You can thank your friendly neighborhood spider man "

" @Jeffsekai said:

" @Scooper said:

" I liked reading through this again. Thanks, whoever bumped this. "

You can thank your friendly neighborhood spider man "

Sorry Jeff, but that was an uber fail. "

" @Stang said:

" @Jeffsekai said:

" @Scooper said:

" I liked reading through this again. Thanks, whoever bumped this. "

You can thank your friendly neighborhood spider man "

Sorry Jeff, but that was an uber fail. "

Nah i give him  a 8 out of 10 for effort  "

This is the most dysfunctional forum ever. 
 
We resurrect a 6 month thread, and use it just to talk about everything but what the original thread was about.... awesome. 

Get ready to re-tread it when SSFIV comes out!
 
Discussion will be about how much Guile improved, and how much more the other characters improved, which consequently made Guile low on the list once again no matter what.  
 
Anyways, with all those new characters and tweaks... who knows what will happen?

Err, zombie thread?

" Err, zombie thread? "

Will this thread ever leave ?

I know its a bit late now, but I saw this the other day and it made me laugh :P

" I know its a bit late now, but I saw this the other day and it made me laugh :P

"