My Quest to perfect Guile ..

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#101 Posted by Baillie (4190 posts) -
@Scooper: It's just the weird setup I have. Since posting this, I have went and mapped it to my Left Trigger. (Used to be All Kicks) 
 
I figured it was my least used button so it was the one I sacrificed. I have LB as Focus, RB as HK, RT as All Punches. ABXY = The rest. 
 
It was most comfortable to me, also I find it difficult to use LB and LT during a combo, etc. 
 
Either way, it's really weird, annoying but it's what I use!
#102 Posted by Scooper (7881 posts) -
@Baillie said:
" @Scooper: It's just the weird setup I have. Since posting this, I have went and mapped it to my Left Trigger. (Used to be All Kicks)  I figured it was my least used button so it was the one I sacrificed. I have LB as Focus, RB as HK, RT as All Punches. ABXY = The rest.  It was most comfortable to me, also I find it difficult to use LB and LT during a combo, etc.  Either way, it's really weird, annoying but it's what I use! "
You really should try and get away from a wierd configuration like that because it is pretty limiting. I use a 360 controller and have the controlls as:
 
A = Light Kick
B = Medium Kick
RB = Heavy Kick
RT = X3 Kicks
 
X = Light Punch
Y = Medium Punch
LB = Heavy Punch
LT = X3 Punches
 
It works well. You really don't need a seperate button for Focus or throw because for them I'll put the tip of my thumb on the highest button (X for throw, Y for Focus) then then the pad of my thumb on the other button and I'm able to do focuses pretty much 100% unless I'm nervous and fighting someone like Stang.
 
Speaking of Stang I think he also used a funky controll setup when he was using a pad, I bet he wasn't that jazzed though because you really need all the buttons if you wanna play at your best.
#103 Posted by Baillie (4190 posts) -

I've tried tons of times to do something like that, but I just can't get to grips with the LB and LT buttons.

#104 Posted by Scooper (7881 posts) -
@Baillie said:
" I've tried tons of times to do something like that, but I just can't get to grips with the LB and LT buttons. "
Bummer. I also have a harder time pressing those buttons just because I'm not as dextrous with my left index finger as I'd like. Luckily Hard Punch, for me, isn't used that much apart from anti-airs and spin knuckles and when I do need to press all 3 punches for say an Ultra is works alrite. It does unfortunately mean I must use Medium Punch if I want to focus cancel a SRK because I don't have the ability to hit heavy punch too precisely. That looses me out on a little damage on SRK's but that hasn't been a big hinderence for me. It's only a little bit of damage.
#105 Edited by lordofultima (6251 posts) -
@Baillie said:

" @Scooper: It's just the weird setup I have. Since posting this, I have went and mapped it to my Left Trigger. (Used to be All Kicks)  I figured it was my least used button so it was the one I sacrificed. I have LB as Focus, RB as HK, RT as All Punches. ABXY = The rest.  It was most comfortable to me, also I find it difficult to use LB and LT during a combo, etc.  Either way, it's really weird, annoying but it's what I use! "

This blows my mind, MP not mapped? Considering Ryu has an amazing crouching strong punch, I just can't fathom. Fierce attacks should be on bumpers, and you should drop one button focus. Since fierce attacks are always extremely deliberate and far between, if you don't like using shoulder buttons it's not a super big deal, since those normal moves are used the least. Roundhouse and 3K should always be on the left side unless you have a character that uses kicks a lot and has a kick-activated ultra.
#106 Posted by Baillie (4190 posts) -
@lordofultima: Yeah, it means I can't combo some things and I've very rarely done his jumping MP which is awesome. I use fierce a lot, I don't know why. Since I've had the setup for so long, I've had to depend on them. After this long with it, it's really hard to change it.
#107 Posted by lordofultima (6251 posts) -
@Baillie said:
" @lordofultima: Yeah, it means I can't combo some things and I've very rarely done his jumping MP which is awesome. I use fierce a lot, I don't know why. Since I've had the setup for so long, I've had to depend on them. After this long with it, it's really hard to change it. "
Just like learning a stick, you just have to force yourself to use a layout you're not familiar with. In time you become comfortable with it and can enjoy medium punch.
#108 Posted by Heartagram (1182 posts) -

Turbo we should play some...My shitty Honda against your somewhat decent guile?

#109 Posted by turbomonkey138 (4950 posts) -
@Heartagram said:
" Turbo we should play some...My shitty Honda against your somewhat decent guile? "
Sure man . Is your gamertag Heartagram ?
#110 Posted by Heartagram (1182 posts) -
@turbomonkey138 said:
" @Heartagram said:
" Turbo we should play some...My shitty Honda against your somewhat decent guile? "
Sure man . Is your gamertag Heartagram ? "

Im already on your friends list Heartagram1028
#111 Posted by turbomonkey138 (4950 posts) -
@Heartagram said:
" @turbomonkey138 said:
" @Heartagram said:
" Turbo we should play some...My shitty Honda against your somewhat decent guile? "
Sure man . Is your gamertag Heartagram ? "
Im already on your friends list Heartagram1028 "
Ah cool just checking
#112 Posted by demontium (4709 posts) -
@turbomonkey138: Mine is about 53, so I am splitting even, but I use Rufus, who is much less complicated than guile and takes way less skill as far as I am concerned. 
 
Either Way I hope you accomplish perfecting guile, god knows it aint easy.
#113 Posted by sho76und3wd (148 posts) -

Keep it up.  We all start somewhere.  My best advice is to just keep learning.  Try not to get stuck in a rut and doing the same things over and over.  Perfect your combos and try and apply them when appropriate. 

#114 Edited by Napalm (9020 posts) -

 

  
:23 - Bison can be Sonic Boom'd out of his Psycho Crusher. If it is an EX, then you need an EX Boom to match it.
1:01 - Overhead attacks are great for getting a free hit on downback M. Bison players. I usually follow it up with a Fierce attack.
1:42 - Guile's j.FP is a great attack if you prefer to use a standard move to knock an M. Bison out of an actual aerial attack, or just hitting them when they jump. This is a good attack if you think an air throw is too risky.
1:42 - 1:50 - The key to dominating your opponent is always hitting them with a stream of attacks one after another, preventing them from doing anything and eating all of your attacks. 
2:04 - If you block the Psycho Crusher, this leaves M. Bison wide open for attack. I opted for a Somersault Kick as it ended the round.
2:14 - By moving back while he does the EX Body Splash, M. Bison lands right in front of you, so you can definitely follow up with a Fierce Attack.
2:45 - I got lucky landing Guile's Ultra. M Bison would have blocked it because by the time it starts up, Bison is already on the ground and can block. I suspect he tried to poke and that's why I was able to get it. Don't always think that because your opponent is mid-air you'll actually get them with an Ultra move. More times than not by the time the move is in motion, your opponent is already on the ground, blocking.
3:00 - s.FP is a great attack for warding off air attacks from Bison.
3:36 - c.FP is also a great anti-air attack. Get used to using this more than Guile's Somersault Kick. It doesn't trade with much.
4:32 - Weak links can be Somersault Kicked through.
4:38 - Another example of the downside of the Psycho Crusher, you can immediately start a combo as soon as they pass by you on block, opening up an M. Bison for a meaty attack.
5:06 - Guile's Ultra can be used to break through mashy players and weak links. This tactic isn't something I learned until recently, but I highly suggest staying away from it because it's quite dangerous.
6:25 - Standing block can be used to ward off most of M. Bison's air attacks, except for the EX Headstomp, (which I think can go through standing blocks). Guile doesn't always need to downback in a fight!
7:02 - Aaaand Guile can also air throw M. Bison out of most his air attacks, except for the EX Headstomp.
 
Admittedly, this M. Bison isn't very good, but he at least allowed me to show some weaknesses in his game.
#115 Posted by Scooper (7881 posts) -
@Napalm: Why taunt in the 2nd round. It makes you look like a knob. Also, alot of your stuff is so random and unsafe like the wakeup Ultra and random EX flashkicks and barely any of them got punished with anything. That Bison was awfull, I think I could play a better Bison then that.
 
That is a Guile VS Bison match though, so credit for that.
#116 Edited by Napalm (9020 posts) -

Indeed. That is why I added the footnotes, which is stuff that works most of the time. Read the footnotes next time, because I establish everything you just said.

#117 Posted by Driadon (2998 posts) -
@Napalm: Though not the greatest Bison, the video does show some great ways to keep the pressure on while playing Guile, which Turbomonkey has shown before that he needs to implement. Good stuff.
#118 Edited by Stang (4726 posts) -

The best Guile I have ever played vs a member of Empire Arcadia using Bison. Hiro rage quit on me in championship mode a few weeks ago, my life is complete!
 
 

  
 
There are 11 videos in this set I think.
#119 Posted by turbomonkey138 (4950 posts) -

man my practice is going to suffer this week . I have to write several scripts for out TV studio  : /

#120 Posted by Scooper (7881 posts) -
@turbomonkey138: You got that FKxxSuper on lock now. Good stuff!
#121 Posted by turbomonkey138 (4950 posts) -
@Scooper said:
" @turbomonkey138: You got that FKxxSuper on lock now. Good stuff! "
Sonic booms come out 9/10 :D
#122 Posted by Scooper (7881 posts) -
@turbomonkey138 said:
" @Scooper said:
" @turbomonkey138: You got that FKxxSuper on lock now. Good stuff! "
Sonic booms come out 9/10 :D "
Try and work on your zoning game next. It's one of Guile's best strengths.
#123 Posted by turbomonkey138 (4950 posts) -

Good idea . And looking back on some of our matches today its getting closer each time :)

#124 Posted by Scooper (7881 posts) -
@turbomonkey138: It certainly is. When Stang started playing he was cack and I'd beat him most of the time easily but about a month later I couldn't beat him at all. It's all about the practice.
#125 Posted by turbomonkey138 (4950 posts) -
@Scooper said:
" @turbomonkey138: It certainly is. When Stang started playing he was cack and I'd beat him most of the time easily but about a month later I couldn't beat him at all. It's all about the practice. "
I'll upload the matches tomorrow .
#126 Posted by Stang (4726 posts) -
@Scooper: What is cack? o.O
#127 Posted by AniMoney (957 posts) -
@Stang said:
" @Scooper: What is cack? o.O "
English shit. 
 
No really.
#128 Edited by HDTran (14 posts) -

  
  I signed up for giantbomb and haven't done much and have never signed in ever again until now since the site began. Just wanted to give you props for your hard work, keep it up. It's hard for me to watch you struggle through these growing pains because I did it back in SF2, but just from your videos alone, it seems like what you're missing more than anything is the use of normals. Your joystick technique is also something you should tighten.
 
A few things I saw off the bat:

  • midscreen, you can use b + MK to create some space-- because you're already holding back, you are charging up for a boom as well, so you can do b+MK > boom or b+MK > b+MK > boom, etc. You can boom and then go b + MK again to create more and more space
  • likewise, you can regain space, there are many moves for this such as f + MK, but the more useful one for beginners is probably b + LK, this will hop you forward and you can basically b + LK into a boom or whatever you want
  • mix those two techniques up to move around the map and control spacing, you don't want to constantly sit and do nothing (although that's effective against players with unsafe offenses that you can punish because the only thing they know how to do is jump in)
  • you can also use normals so that you don't move while you're holding back (so you can be standing and block jump-ins and not have to crouch all day), use normals like s.LP or whatever to stay one place--for example, keep tapping s.LP and hold back, when you feel like releasing a boom, hit f+any punch and you'll release a boom. Since you were in s.LP animation the entire time you charged, you will not have moved anywhere.
  • treat sonic booms not just as projectiles (which EX booms are great at), but also as a frontal shield to allow you to do mixups (by following behind it and then doing something after it lands/is blocked)--start setting up your opponent with a boom either close or ontop of them, you can do c . MP > Sonic Boom for example. After the sonic boom, you can mix it up between the following:
  1. s.HP - good for stuffing jumps and slower attacks after someone gets hit by or blocks a sonic boom
  2. s.HK - quicker than s.HP, can't really catch jumpers, but can stuff things better
  3. throw - sometimes people get so scared that you can just throw them
  4. c.MK - quick long range poke, can boom again after and start the mixup fun over
  5. c.MP - same as MK, but less range, quicker speed, can boom again to start mixup fun over
  6. f+MP - overhead attack for people you know are crouching
  7. c.MK > f+MP - worth a mention since it's a string that actually works and can confuse some people
  8. if you're throwing your booms from far away > dash or b+LK, etc. to close some distance/create pressure, remember that your ideal range is for you to follow up your booms with mixups, c.HP jump ins, etc.
  • don't rely on flash kick too much, flash kick just isn't that good--sure you can anti-air someone that's very obvious (especially if they're sitting over you or just being stupid and jumping over and over), but most of the time Guile can solve anti-air issues with a c.HP. You can also do air throws if you predict that they're just going to jump blindly. But really, rely more on c.HP or just space back out with things such as b + MK and then lay a boom. It's not worth crouching all game just to get a flash kick.
  • again, move around--you really need to, sitting there only lets you beat people that can't do anything, but jump (I'm sure you've seen match videos with guile already, so you know what I mean)
  • remember, Guile has only 2 special moves for a reason--he has fantastic normals
  • the game is not about combos, I mean sure, you need combos to maximize your damage when you have opportunities where you should be hitting him hard--but it's definitely not where your sole practice should be in. The only beginning combo you really need is probably c.MP > sonic boom. Yes it's not always guaranteed (based on range, etc.) and yes, it's not as good as c.MP > flash kick in terms of damage, but it's the easiest one for you to use at this point in the game. c.MP > boom gives you a basic cancel, you don't have to hit confirm it (ie. making sure the c.MP lands before you follow it up) and you're generally safe afterwards to do mixups after the boom. To a lesser extent, many other moves can help you accomplish this, even if it's not a combo. c. MK, b + LK, etc. followed by a boom will let you stay relatively safe
  • when you throw your booms and flash kicks, don't flick it and fling your hand all the way out, you always want your hand around the ball--that doesn't mean you should have a grip on it, you can let it go, but only very quickly and never with your hand far away from the stick: to see some stick holding techniques go to  (three-finger grip is most common in my opinion, especially with larger hands)
    http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2009/jul/08/tips-switching-pad-joystick/
 
A Japanese match video showing what I mean:
 
#129 Posted by turbomonkey138 (4950 posts) -
@Stang said:
" @Scooper: What is cack? o.O "
It means you were wank ...
#130 Posted by Stang (4726 posts) -
@turbomonkey138: Haha you explain one English term with another, this is going to go on forever!
#131 Posted by turbomonkey138 (4950 posts) -
@Stang said:
" @turbomonkey138: Haha you explain one English term with another, this is going to go on forever! "
Basically you lost all the time when you first started . That's what cack and wank mean .... in a way
#132 Posted by Stang (4726 posts) -
@turbomonkey138: Ah I see. Well, now i only lose 25% of the time! Take that! :evil grin:
#133 Posted by turbomonkey138 (4950 posts) -
@HDTran said:

"   
  I signed up for giantbomb and haven't done much and have never signed in ever again until now since the site began. Just wanted to give you props for your hard work, keep it up. It's hard for me to watch you struggle through these growing pains because I did it back in SF2, but just from your videos alone, it seems like what you're missing more than anything is the use of normals. Your joystick technique is also something you should tighten.
 
A few things I saw off the bat:

  • midscreen, you can use b + MK to create some space-- because you're already holding back, you are charging up for a boom as well, so you can do b+MK > boom or b+MK > b+MK > boom, etc. You can boom and then go b + MK again to create more and more space
  • likewise, you can regain space, there are many moves for this such as f + MK, but the more useful one for beginners is probably b + LK, this will hop you forward and you can basically b + LK into a boom or whatever you want
  • mix those two techniques up to move around the map and control spacing, you don't want to constantly sit and do nothing (although that's effective against players with unsafe offenses that you can punish because the only thing they know how to do is jump in)
  • you can also use normals so that you don't move while you're holding back (so you can be standing and block jump-ins and not have to crouch all day), use normals like s.LP or whatever to stay one place--for example, keep tapping s.LP and hold back, when you feel like releasing a boom, hit f+any punch and you'll release a boom. Since you were in s.LP animation the entire time you charged, you will not have moved anywhere.
  • treat sonic booms not just as projectiles (which EX booms are great at), but also as a frontal shield to allow you to do mixups (by following behind it and then doing something after it lands/is blocked)--start setting up your opponent with a boom either close or ontop of them, you can do c . MP > Sonic Boom for example. After the sonic boom, you can mix it up between the following:
  1. s.HP - good for stuffing jumps and slower attacks after someone gets hit by or blocks a sonic boom
  2. s.HK - quicker than s.HP, can't really catch jumpers, but can stuff things better
  3. throw - sometimes people get so scared that you can just throw them
  4. c.MK - quick long range poke, can boom again after and start the mixup fun over
  5. c.MP - same as MK, but less range, quicker speed, can boom again to start mixup fun over
  6. f+MP - overhead attack for people you know are crouching
  7. c.MK > f+MP - worth a mention since it's a string that actually works and can confuse some people
  8. if you're throwing your booms from far away > dash or b+LK, etc. to close some distance/create pressure, remember that your ideal range is for you to follow up your booms with mixups, c.HP jump ins, etc.
  • don't rely on flash kick too much, flash kick just isn't that good--sure you can anti-air someone that's very obvious (especially if they're sitting over you or just being stupid and jumping over and over), but most of the time Guile can solve anti-air issues with a c.HP. You can also do air throws if you predict that they're just going to jump blindly. But really, rely more on c.HP or just space back out with things such as b + MK and then lay a boom. It's not worth crouching all game just to get a flash kick.
  • again, move around--you really need to, sitting there only lets you beat people that can't do anything, but jump (I'm sure you've seen match videos with guile already, so you know what I mean)
  • remember, Guile has only 2 special moves for a reason--he has fantastic normals
  • the game is not about combos, I mean sure, you need combos to maximize your damage when you have opportunities where you should be hitting him hard--but it's definitely not where your sole practice should be in. The only beginning combo you really need is probably c.MP > sonic boom. Yes it's not always guaranteed (based on range, etc.) and yes, it's not as good as c.MP > flash kick in terms of damage, but it's the easiest one for you to use at this point in the game. c.MP > boom gives you a basic cancel, you don't have to hit confirm it (ie. making sure the c.MP lands before you follow it up) and you're generally safe afterwards to do mixups after the boom. To a lesser extent, many other moves can help you accomplish this, even if it's not a combo. c. MK, b + LK, etc. followed by a boom will let you stay relatively safe
  • when you throw your booms and flash kicks, don't flick it and fling your hand all the way out, you always want your hand around the ball--that doesn't mean you should have a grip on it, you can let it go, but only very quickly and never with your hand far away from the stick: to see some stick holding techniques go to  (three-finger grip is most common in my opinion, especially with larger hands)
    http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2009/jul/08/tips-switching-pad-joystick/
 
A Japanese match video showing what I mean:
 
"
Yea its my first fight stick so im still learning how to to hold it properly . Its  just something i will get with practice
#134 Posted by Scooper (7881 posts) -
@HDTran: Fantastic advice there. Basicaly, Turbo. Follow that.
#135 Posted by turbomonkey138 (4950 posts) -
@Scooper said:
" @HDTran: Fantastic advice there. Basicaly, Turbo. Follow that. "
Its some pretty nifty advice :)
#136 Posted by turbomonkey138 (4950 posts) -

Had to take down one of my videos due to spelling mistakes ... 
 
 

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