Please help me improve my SFIV game!

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#1 Edited by Adamantium (885 posts) -

I posted this a while ago in a different thread, but I didn't get any advice and I thought I'd give it another go! I'm not a great player, but I'm a notch or two above total scrub. That being said, I want to get better! I'm not trying to get up to tournament level or anything, but I'd like to win more fights than I do now. I have a few basic questions and a couple character specific questions:
 
1. What is meant by "tick" throw? Is that just a throw in the middle of a block string or does it have a deeper meaning?
2. When I read up on move sets, what is meant by +/- block advantage or hit advantage? I know it has to do with the number of frames after the move, but I don't get the practical meaning of the numbers.
3. Any advice for learning the exact spacing for cross-ups? I have a hard time both executing them and defending from them, as I don't know exactly where they start from for each character.
4. Any general advice for improving my mix-up game? I fall into ruts too often because it's quite difficult to find new things that work, so when my few tricks tire out, I have nothing to fall back on.
 
As far as characters, I've been maining Akuma, but slowly developing my game with Gouken and Sakura. I think Sakura is a little out of my league with her long combo loops and stand-ups/resets, but she's fun. I get a lot of wins online with Gouken, but mostly against shoto noobs who try to DP/Hadouken their way through the entire match, thankfully there are a TON of those on PSN. Is Gouken a viable character for higher level play? Are there any high level Gouken players I can look up on YouTube?
 
Finally, what I'm looking for is specific Gouken advice for improving my offensive game. My defense is pretty solid, but I have trouble pressuring opponents when I'm behind on health. For one thing, I'm really stingy with fireballs. Unless someone is spamming them and I have to keep up, I save them for jump-in defense or the occasional mindfuck fully charged lp or mp fireball. How can I use them more effectively for offense? Also which of Gouken's normals are solid? I use too many special moves, and over the course of a match they get read easily by better players. Lastly, besides a Hyakki Gojin > c.mp > Tastu combo, I find myself low on options when I find an opening, what else is there to punish with at close/mid range?
 
Thanks for reading, and for any advice you can offer! If you feel like beating me up on PSN, go ahead and add me. My PSNID is iFrag (be sure to mention you're from GB!).
 
Edit: This was supposed to be in the SFIV forum. If a mod could move it I'd very much appreciate it!

#2 Posted by Stang (4726 posts) -

1. A tick throw is a throw attempt after a block string. Jab jab throw is an example.
2. + means you are at a frame advantage, - means your opponent is at an advantage. For instance, lets say on block your move has a -4 frame disadvantage. This means, as Ken, I get a free srk.
3. Nobody can help you here, your best bet is to hit training mode for a long long time. It comes with experience.
4. Again, this is experience. As Akuma, do a demon flip on their wake up. Next time, do a demon flip throw. Next time, do a cross up tatsu. After that, attempt to throw on their wake up. 
 
Sorry I can't help with Gouken, his name is not Ken.

#3 Posted by Pessh (2453 posts) -

I'm a scrub but wouldn't mind playing you as long as you're ok with easy matches (Already got you on my friends list.)

#4 Posted by Adamantium (885 posts) -
@Stang said:
" 1. A tick throw is a throw attempt after a block string. Jab jab throw is an example. 2. + means you are at a frame advantage, - means your opponent is at an advantage. For instance, lets say on block your move has a -4 frame disadvantage. This means, as Ken, I get a free srk. 3. Nobody can help you here, your best bet is to hit training mode for a long long time. It comes with experience. 4. Again, this is experience. As Akuma, do a demon flip on their wake up. Next time, do a demon flip throw. Next time, do a cross up tatsu. After that, attempt to throw on their wake up.   Sorry I can't help with Gouken, his name is not Ken. "
Ok cool, thanks for the help! So like in your example for #2, it's just the number of frames before I can move again, right? Cross-ups are the devil, I'm just gonna try to learn from better players there.
 
@Pessh said:
" I'm a scrub but wouldn't mind playing you as long as you're ok with easy matches (Already got you on my friends list.) "
Anytime bro! I've been burned out on MW2 so you probably haven't seen me online as much, but if you catch me playing SFIV invite me to some matches!
#5 Posted by Stang (4726 posts) -
@Adamantium: I am sure Ultima will chime in soon, he knows far more about the technical bs then I do. In all honesty, I don't pay attention to frame data. I know what links into what, what I can do that is safe,  and what I can do to punish. I learned what I can punish by playing the game far more then I should, although now that I think about it learning frame data would have made things a bit easier.
#6 Posted by Adamantium (885 posts) -
@Stang said:
" @Adamantium: I am sure Ultima will chime in soon, he knows far more about the technical bs then I do. In all honesty, I don't pay attention to frame data. I know what links into what, what I can do that is safe,  and what I can do to punish. I learned what I can punish by playing the game far more then I should, although now that I think about it learning frame data would have made things a bit easier. "
Haha I hear ya. I'm not gonna go into training mode and start counting frames, even if that means I won't improve much more. But I do see those +/- numbers way often (on Eventhubs for example) so I wondered what they were all about. Thanks Stang!
#7 Edited by lordofultima (6204 posts) -
@Adamantium:  
 
  1. Tick Throws are interrupting your own hit/block string with a throw attempt. This can catch players by surprise and turn a situation where they're comfortable (blocking normal attacks) into one where you're comfortable (throwing your opponent, scoring damage and a knockdown).
  2. +/- is just frame advantage, this is usually associated with blocking, so to determine which block strings are "safe" you see which normal attacks give you the most advantage on block. This reduces your opponents options while simultaneously giving you more time to form offense. It's really not as complicated as "counting frames." I doubt anyone actually counts frames while they're playing a game, knowing frame data is a very passive thing, and will let you understand when a move can and cannot be punished, or in this case, teach you which moves of your own are the least likely to be punished.
  3. Training mode and playing people, it's a really lame and simple answer, but that's all there is to it. Different characters have different sized hit-boxes, so cross-ups may be easier or harder depending on who your opponent selects. Also, some characters themselves don't have practical cross-up attacks, and some even have none at all. It's important to figure out how your normals work early on.
  4. Experience is all that is necessary. Work on a couple different options for mixing up, don't increase your palette until you're comfortable cycling between the current options. Feeling out your opponent and seeing how they react to various mix-ups also helps. You don't want to do a lot of resets or un-safe things if they always reversal uppercut, for instance.
  5. Akuma has more potential than the other characters you mentioned, just because of his large array of tools, and silly mixup. Really if you think Sakura's mix-up is overwhelming, you really haven't scratched the surface of Akuma. Sakura relies on the same two mix-ups basically. That said, Gokuen has plenty of mix-up and powerful combos, he's just lacking in a couple areas. (normals, hit/block strings, anti-air)
#8 Edited by Adamantium (885 posts) -
@lordofultima:
 
OK. Thanks very much! That's all really good info that I'm going to practice with. I understand that Akuma is pretty advanced, that's why I shy away from him as a "serious main". I just see so many good Akumas online that I feel quite inadequate, lol. I guess I'll sitck with him though, if he's better than Gouken for higher-level play. Anyway from what you and Stang have to say, I have the basics mostly down, from here on out it's practice, practice, practice.
 
Keep posting those vids, both of you, so I have some inspiration! ;)
 
Edit: thanks very much for moving this thread, as well.
#9 Edited by AniMoney (957 posts) -
@Adamantium said:

"As far as characters, I've been maining Akuma, but slowly developing my game with Gouken and Sakura. I think Sakura is a little out of my league with her long combo loops and stand-ups/resets, but she's fun. I get a lot of wins online with Gouken, but mostly against shoto noobs who try to DP/Hadouken their way through the entire match, thankfully there are a TON of those on PSN. Is Gouken a viable character for higher level play? Are there any high level Gouken players I can look up on YouTube? Finally, what I'm looking for is specific Gouken advice for improving my offensive game. My defense is pretty solid, but I have trouble pressuring opponents when I'm behind on health. For one thing, I'm really stingy with fireballs. Unless someone is spamming them and I have to keep up, I save them for jump-in defense or the occasional mindfuck fully charged lp or mp fireball. How can I use them more effectively for offense? Also which of Gouken's normals are solid? I use too many special moves, and over the course of a match they get read easily by better players. Lastly, besides a Hyakki Gojin > c.mp > Tastu combo, I find myself low on options when I find an opening, what else is there to punish with at close/mid range?  Thanks for reading, and for any advice you can offer! If you feel like beating me up on PSN, go ahead and add me. My PSNID is iFrag (be sure to mention you're from GB!).  Edit: This was supposed to be in the SFIV forum. If a mod could move it I'd very much appreciate it! "  

 
Since everything else has been answered, I'll give you some info about Gouken, even though I'm not great with him. 
 
Gouken recovers really fast from his fireball so you can keep a lot of people at bay and mix them up with the anti air ones for a while but you'll usually lose in a straight up fireball war to Sagat/Akuma, etc. His dash palm attack goes through fireballs but the timing is kind of weird, use jab or strong because fierce has too much start up.  
 
For defense you can use high counter for anti-air, but good players will adjust and you will pay heavilly if they do. Low fierce is his best normal anti-air, but it's kind of slow and bad for close jump ins and crossups. Anti air is one of his weaknesses. Gouken can mash counter block strings and combos, and if theres a gap between hits you can get them off your back, but this is really risky because you won't be able to tech throws and if they catch on you'll get punished. After they knock you down, Gouken can't do much. Counter is unsafe as I've mentioned, tatsu is not a good wakeup and has massive recovery. EX tatsu can work, because it has more invincibility but if they cross you up it could turn into an ex counter or it might autocorrect. It's also just as punishable as reg tatsu unless you fadc. Your best option is just blocking and teching their throws. Neutral jump fierce can be useful if they keep crossung you up. Gouken in general lacks defense and so you want to avoid getting knocked down or put in the corner.
 
For Gouken's offense, however, he can be very scary. He does a lot of damage and stun, and his combos are pretty simple. The biggest problem he has here is he can't link his jabs into a special like most characters. He has to go for bigger slower hits, usually. Jump in fierce is good. Jumping forward is his crossup. Jump back roundhouse can work as an instant overhead(maybe not on all characters, not sure). Low strong, low roundhouse, stand fierce, and low short are his better pokes. You can cancel a lot of his moves into fireball, but it won't actually combo, unless you do it from standing or low fierce. Low fierce xx jab fireball is his bnb combo. You can also do low or stand fierce into dash palm for more damage and a knockdown, or into a demon flip for a mixup. EX Dash Palm is his best special move, the second hit lets you juggle your opponent, So you can do like, j.hp, s.hp xx ex palm, and then juggle with mp.palm, for a lot of damage. You can also do some crazy juggles and resets in the corner, but I'll let you figure that out yourself. Demon flip in general is a good tool to pressure your opponent, ex is faster and homes in so it's good from full screen when you anticipate a fireball. 
 
You can land ultra off of a back throw(which sounds awesome but his throw is slower than most), off of a fadc's tatsu, or you can fadc the second hit of ex palm. You can juggle it in the corner off of a lot of stuff. You can also do a tatsu after backthrow for good damage.
 
You can do some cool resets like back throw, s.fp xx demon flip(throw, dive kick, slide). Demon flip parry seems totally useless to me, I don't know any practical uses for it. 
 
Gouken seems best when you're in their face applying pressure and being a threat, but you need to know when to expect a reversal and back off. If you get them in the corner you can straight up wreck them, but same for them if they get you there. Gouken can be a lot of fun and he's a viable main but he isn't high tier or easy to win with. I'll edit this post later with some links. 
 
EDIT: Here are some links for you to check out. 
   
Gouken Guide 
Gouken Forum on SRK 
Gouken Player on youtube. 
Gouken SRK Wiki page, has frame data and useful counter ultra chart 
 
Honestly the best way to learn is playing. Read the guide I linked, then go to the forum on srk if you have any specific questions. Watching videos can give you some ideas and mental reps, but you'll really learn best by just playing with him.
#10 Edited by Adamantium (885 posts) -
@AniMoney said:

" though I'm not great with him.  Gouken recovers really fast from his fireball so you can keep a lot of people at bay and mix them up with the anti air ones for a while but you'll usually lose in a straight up fireball war to Sagat/Akuma, etc. His dash palm attack goes through fireballs but the timing is kind of weird, use jab or strong because fierce has too much start up.   For defense you can use high counter for anti-air, but good players will adjust and you will pay heavilly if they do. Low fierce is his best normal anti-air, but it's kind of slow and bad for close jump ins and crossups. Anti air is one of his weaknesses. Gouken can mash counter block strings and combos, and if theres a gap between hits you can get them off your back, but this is really risky because you won't be able to tech throws and if they catch on you'll get punished. After they knock you down, Gouken can't do much. Counter is unsafe as I've mentioned, tatsu is not a good wakeup and has massive recovery. EX tatsu can work, because it has more invincibility but if they cross you up it could turn into an ex counter or it might autocorrect. It's also just as punishable as reg tatsu unless you fadc. Your best option is just blocking and teching their throws. Neutral jump fierce can be useful if they keep crossung you up. Gouken in general lacks defense and so you want to avoid getting knocked down or put in the corner. For Gouken's offense, however, he can be very scary. He does a lot of damage and stun, and his combos are pretty simple. The biggest problem he has here is he can't link his jabs into a special like most characters. He has to go for bigger slower hits, usually. Jump in fierce is good. Jumping forward is his crossup. Jump back roundhouse can work as an instant overhead(maybe not on all characters, not sure). Low strong, low roundhouse, stand fierce, and low short are his better pokes. You can cancel a lot of his moves into fireball, but it won't actually combo, unless you do it from standing or low fierce. Low fierce xx jab fireball is his bnb combo. You can also do low or stand fierce into dash palm for more damage and a knockdown, or into a demon flip for a mixup. EX Dash Palm is his best special move, the second hit lets you juggle your opponent, So you can do like, j.hp, s.hp xx ex palm, and then juggle with mp.palm, for a lot of damage. You can also do some crazy juggles and resets in the corner, but I'll let you figure that out yourself. Demon flip in general is a good tool to pressure your opponent, ex is faster and homes in so it's good from full screen when you anticipate a fireball.  You can land ultra off of a back throw(which sounds awesome but his throw is slower than most), off of a fadc's tatsu, or you can fadc the second hit of ex palm. You can juggle it in the corner off of a lot of stuff. You can also do a tatsu after backthrow for good damage. You can do some cool resets like back throw, s.fp xx demon flip(throw, dive kick, slide). Demon flip parry seems totally useless to me, I don't know any practical uses for it.  Gouken seems best when you're in their face applying pressure and being a threat, but you need to know when to expect a reversal and back off. If you get them in the corner you can straight up wreck them, but same for them if they get you there. Gouken can be a lot of fun and he's a viable main but he isn't high tier or easy to win with. I'll edit this post later with some links. "

Yah yah, awesome. That's the kind of advice I'm looking for! Thanks much!
 
So yeah, I usually use Tatsu for anti-air, but it takes a little anticipation since it takes so long to start up. I almost never watch for EX bars while I'm using Tatsu, so fadc out of it is nearly impossible with me at this point, I'll work on that. I've been getting better with his standing FP into dash palm, but it's a knockdown so I can't really combo off that: two hits, decent damage, and then wake up games.
 
Thx for the tip on Gouken's bnb and cross-up, never knew either of those. Also his neutral jump FP, I'll need to practice that.
 
I can consistently catch his Ultra off his back throw, so no worries there. As far as corner games, I have the EX palm > EX Gohadouken > Ultra combo down, but it takes half the EX bar and Ultra built-up, and that situation happens pretty infrequently for me. I need to use more demon flip mix-ups I guess, I usually only use it in the Heavy Kick variation, since using it up close usually gets me a Dragon Punch to the face. Also Gouken's parry is pretty useful, but again it takes serious anticipation, almost to the point of being psychic unless the opponent is just throwing out a ton of jabs/shorts up close.
 
Anyway great stuff! Any links you can provide are appreciated! I usually just check the character pages on eventhubs for my move info...
 
Edit: awesome, thx for the links. Yea I know that playing is the best way to learn, but sometimes it takes a little more info so I don't keep repeating the same bad habits over and over. I think that's the point I'm reaching now.
#11 Edited by AniMoney (957 posts) -
@Adamantium: I edited the post with some links, on srk's gouken forum there should be a thread where they post match videos, I would hit that up to see a variety of good players in action. Anti-air tatsu is kind of unreliable, at least it has been for me, but yeah fadcing it and then getting ultra off it can be pretty sweet. As far as corner games, if you land ex palm, you can juggle fierce fireball, then jab fireball, then sweep for an untechable knockdown. You can also juggle with one(or two) fireballs then do s.hp or c.hp into demon flip, which can cross up and will reset them. If that hits you can go into another palm combo which will usually stun them. If I'm playing Gouken and I get someone in the corner, I almost always go for resets because if it works you can pretty much win the round, and if it doesn't you'll usually only eat an air to air normal or an srk. If they know you're looking for s.hp or c.hp into ex palm, they might get a little block happy to avoid being counterpoked or whiff punished, which can set them up for throws. 
 
Cool combo/reset/mixup video    
#12 Posted by SuperSecretAgenda (696 posts) -
@Stang said:
" 1. A tick throw is a throw attempt after a block string. Jab jab throw is an example. 2. + means you are at a frame advantage, - means your opponent is at an advantage. For instance, lets say on block your move has a -4 frame disadvantage. This means, as Ken, I get a free srk. 3. Nobody can help you here, your best bet is to hit training mode for a long long time. It comes with experience. 4. Again, this is experience. As Akuma, do a demon flip on their wake up. Next time, do a demon flip throw. Next time, do a cross up tatsu. After that, attempt to throw on their wake up.   Sorry I can't help with Gouken, his name is not Ken. "
Gouken. 
 
GouKEN 
#13 Posted by Adamantium (885 posts) -
@AniMoney said:
" @Adamantium: I edited the post with some links, on srk's gouken forum there should be a thread where they post match videos, I would hit that up to see a variety of good players in action. Anti-air tatsu is kind of unreliable, at least it has been for me, but yeah fadcing it and then getting ultra off it can be pretty sweet. As far as corner games, if you land ex palm, you can juggle fierce fireball, then jab fireball, then sweep for an untechable knockdown. You can also juggle with one(or two) fireballs then do s.hp or c.hp into demon flip, which can cross up and will reset them. If that hits you can go into another palm combo which will usually stun them. If I'm playing Gouken and I get someone in the corner, I almost always go for resets because if it works you can pretty much win the round, and if it doesn't you'll usually only eat an air to air normal or an srk. If they know you're looking for s.hp or c.hp into ex palm, they might get a little block happy to avoid being counterpoked or whiff punished, which can set them up for throws. "
Wow yeah nice vids/links, thanks again. I see now that those resets can come in handy. I need to practice those much more. Never thought about sweeping after fierce then jab fireballs either. So do you pressure and then just play risk/reward games with the palm combo? I usually only drop that as a punishing move, but if it has decent priority I could try to throw it in there more often. Throwing is a huge weakness for me, I don't go for them enough.
 
As far as demon flip cross-ups and resets, I think tomorrow's going to be a long day watching YouTube and practicing in the training room, lolz.
#14 Posted by Stang (4726 posts) -

Good shit Ultima and Ani.

#15 Posted by AniMoney (957 posts) -
@Adamantium said:
" @AniMoney said:
" @Adamantium: I edited the post with some links, on srk's gouken forum there should be a thread where they post match videos, I would hit that up to see a variety of good players in action. Anti-air tatsu is kind of unreliable, at least it has been for me, but yeah fadcing it and then getting ultra off it can be pretty sweet. As far as corner games, if you land ex palm, you can juggle fierce fireball, then jab fireball, then sweep for an untechable knockdown. You can also juggle with one(or two) fireballs then do s.hp or c.hp into demon flip, which can cross up and will reset them. If that hits you can go into another palm combo which will usually stun them. If I'm playing Gouken and I get someone in the corner, I almost always go for resets because if it works you can pretty much win the round, and if it doesn't you'll usually only eat an air to air normal or an srk. If they know you're looking for s.hp or c.hp into ex palm, they might get a little block happy to avoid being counterpoked or whiff punished, which can set them up for throws. "
Wow yeah nice vids/links, thanks again. I see now that those resets can come in handy. I need to practice those much more. Never thought about sweeping after fierce then jab fireballs either. So do you pressure and then just play risk/reward games with the palm combo? I usually only drop that as a punishing move, but if it has decent priority I could try to throw it in there more often. Throwing is a huge weakness for me, I don't go for them enough. As far as demon flip cross-ups and resets, I think tomorrow's going to be a long day watching YouTube and practicing in the training room, lolz. "
Yeah you can juggle sweep after a ex palm and then fireball in the corner. The advantage is they can't quickstand so you know exactly when they're going to get up, and you can time a meaty attack, a safe jump/ crossup, or a demon flip. 
 
Basically if I'm playing Gouken I'll throw fireballs for a little bit to see how they handle it and build meter while doing so. If they're trying to get in I can usually get some damage on them as they approach me. If they're eating a ton of fireballs I'll just air tatsu or something and keep running away with fireballs because if that's all it'll take to win I'm fine with it. If they're too good for that I'll usually get more aggressive. Palm is usually not safe on block, so you'll want to go for combos into fireball more, but if you have a chance to punish, always go for a palm/ex palm combo. ex palm then juggle with mp palm pushes them towards the corner where gouken can be very scary and it does a lot of damage.  
 
Gouken's back throw is abnormally slow because of it's juggle possibilities, but if they're not teching well you can still get it. Forward throw is normal speed(and it looks badass) and will push them far away which can be good. Gouken can definitely do tick throws with his low jab, and he probably needs to at least try to a few times, just for damage, because he can't link them into a special.
#16 Posted by Scooper (7882 posts) -
@Stang said:
" Good shit Ultima and Ani. "
I agree. May even try Gouken once again. Last time I focused on his normals first (As I think anyone should with a new character), decided they were garbage and went "This sucks!! I can't do the thing with the character for the win!!!! :( :(>O:(!!" And went with Rose who's normals turned out to be great. It seems Gouken's normals aren't his speciality and I turned away from him too soon to find out his good side.
 
Thanks, Ani. Gunna try some of that stuff.
 
Ps. You guys ever think about making guides for each character, well at least characters you're comfortable with? I know for sure I'd read the fuck out of some of those guides, I don't feel like visiting a Shoryuken.com forum and getting spat out. I reckon you guys could make a decent Balrog, Ken, Akuma, Ryu, Sakura, Gen, Viper ect. guide.
#17 Posted by Plasma (931 posts) -

Gouken's Cr.Fierce is godlike, good anti-air, good poke, good move to cancel into special moves... 

#18 Posted by Scooper (7882 posts) -
@Plasma: Oh. Well, you keep on learning I guess.
#19 Posted by GetEveryone (4455 posts) -
@Adamantium: I used to play Gouken, but I'm so rusty with him at the moment; I want to basically relearn him, so I'll give you an add.
#20 Posted by dbz1995 (4789 posts) -
@SuperSecretAgenda said:
" @Stang said:
" 1. A tick throw is a throw attempt after a block string. Jab jab throw is an example. 2. + means you are at a frame advantage, - means your opponent is at an advantage. For instance, lets say on block your move has a -4 frame disadvantage. This means, as Ken, I get a free srk. 3. Nobody can help you here, your best bet is to hit training mode for a long long time. It comes with experience. 4. Again, this is experience. As Akuma, do a demon flip on their wake up. Next time, do a demon flip throw. Next time, do a cross up tatsu. After that, attempt to throw on their wake up.   Sorry I can't help with Gouken, his name is not Ken. "
Gouken. 
 
GouKEN 
"
A mixture of Goku and Ken.
#21 Edited by lordofultima (6204 posts) -
@Scooper: I've thought about forcing myself to make guides for other characters just so I could get the added benefit of understanding the match-ups automatically, but it's just too time consuming. I'd rather just make videos on Akuma's specific match-ups at that point. It's too much research to not feel like an asshole telling people how to play a character that I don't play. I feel comfortable playing Akuma, Ryu and Vega. Now who really wants to see guides on those latter two characters? Didn't think so.
  
@Plasma: Gouken's cr.HP is alright...I'd hardly call it godlike. cr.HP on Akuma/Ryu/Ken, that's godlike as anti-air, they can be used at various ranges and stop all sorts of shenanigans like cross-ups. Gouken's cr.HP is like Ryu's st.HK as an anti-air, cool but very range and situation specific. DP is godlike, Gouken doesn't have that either. In place of DP he gets random counter, which isn't as good as DP, since DP will hit opponents who don't attack, and counter will not.
#22 Posted by Pessh (2453 posts) -
@Scooper said:
" @Stang said:
" Good shit Ultima and Ani. "
I agree. May even try Gouken once again. Last time I focused on his normals first (As I think anyone should with a new character), decided they were garbage and went "This sucks!! I can't do the thing with the character for the win!!!! :( :(>O:(!!" And went with Rose who's normals turned out to be great. It seems Gouken's normals aren't his speciality and I turned away from him too soon to find out his good side.  Thanks, Ani. Gunna try some of that stuff.  Ps. You guys ever think about making guides for each character, well at least characters you're comfortable with? I know for sure I'd read the fuck out of some of those guides, I don't feel like visiting a Shoryuken.com forum and getting spat out. I reckon you guys could make a decent Balrog, Ken, Akuma, Ryu, Sakura, Gen, Viper ect. guide. "
Do want.
#23 Posted by Adamantium (885 posts) -
@AniMoney said:
" Basically if I'm playing Gouken I'll throw fireballs for a little bit to see how they handle it and build meter while doing so. If they're trying to get in I can usually get some damage on them as they approach me. If they're eating a ton of fireballs I'll just air tatsu or something and keep running away with fireballs because if that's all it'll take to win I'm fine with it. If they're too good for that I'll usually get more aggressive. Palm is usually not safe on block, so you'll want to go for combos into fireball more, but if you have a chance to punish, always go for a palm/ex palm combo. ex palm then juggle with mp palm pushes them towards the corner where gouken can be very scary and it does a lot of damage."
Cool, cool. Good situational shit that I'll be working on. Like I said before I'm pretty stingy with fireballs, but if people are eating them I have no problem tossing them out there repeatedly. It's just that when I do, I end up throwing one too many and usually eat a jump-in HK combo myself. Sounds like using the palm combo as a punisher is the best way to go, which is good because that's what I usually save it for anyway. Heck, it's easier to combo into Tatsu to clear the opponent out anyway. 
 
Again, all the advice is much appreciated guys!
 
@GetEveryone said:
" @Adamantium: I used to play Gouken, but I'm so rusty with him at the moment; I want to basically relearn him, so I'll give you an add. "

Heck yeah, if I'm online, I'm down to play.
#24 Posted by AniMoney (957 posts) -

Rog has one of the best c.hp's in the game.

#25 Posted by Stang (4726 posts) -
@AniMoney said:
" Rog has one of the best c.hp's in the game. "
2nd only to Akuma imo.
#26 Posted by AniMoney (957 posts) -
@Stang said:
" @AniMoney said:
" Rog has one of the best c.hp's in the game. "
2nd only to Akuma imo. "
What about Abel's? Not as good as anti-ar as Akuma or Balrog's, but you can juggle off it.
#27 Posted by Thrawn1 (1340 posts) -
@AniMoney said:
" @Stang said:
" @AniMoney said:
" Rog has one of the best c.hp's in the game. "
2nd only to Akuma imo. "
What about Abel's? Not as good as anti-ar as Akuma or Balrog's, but you can juggle off it. "
if we're talking about juggle possibilities then i'd have to go with seth's c.hp
#28 Posted by SpecialBuddy (1110 posts) -
@Thrawn said:
" @AniMoney said:
" @Stang said:
" @AniMoney said:
" Rog has one of the best c.hp's in the game. "
2nd only to Akuma imo. "
What about Abel's? Not as good as anti-ar as Akuma or Balrog's, but you can juggle off it. "
if we're talking about juggle possibilities then i'd have to go with seth's c.hp "
All of you are wrong. Guile has the best overall HP in the game. C.HP, S.HP, F.HP it doesnt matter. They are all GOD LIKE!
#29 Posted by lordofultima (6204 posts) -
@SpecialBuddy said:
" @Thrawn said:
" @AniMoney said:
" @Stang said:
" @AniMoney said:
" Rog has one of the best c.hp's in the game. "
2nd only to Akuma imo. "
What about Abel's? Not as good as anti-ar as Akuma or Balrog's, but you can juggle off it. "
if we're talking about juggle possibilities then i'd have to go with seth's c.hp "
All of you are wrong. Guile has the best overall HP in the game. C.HP, S.HP, F.HP it doesnt matter. They are all GOD LIKE! "
You are right, his down fierce is ill. Making tier list on down fierce now. jkjk
#30 Posted by EvilGreenDevil (196 posts) -

I can't really add much to what's already been said but I'll try to share what's helped me. 
 
Eventhubs.com - Great site to really get the basics explained. They have beginner and intermediate guides to the game that would answer some of the questions you asked. They also have a very basic character guide that will introduce you to each character's specials, damage, useful normals, and bread n butter (BnB) combos. This was one of the first sites I went to when I wanted to get better.  
 
SRK - Shoryuken.com is home of pretty much the most dedicated SF players. No joke, there's a lot of info on this site including character specific threads (as posted by Ani) as well as video threads for certain characters. Personally I thought this was a little overwhelming when I was first starting out but once you start getting familiar with the game and your characters, the site will help you the things you need to get to the next level.   
 
SF4 Dojo - If you're having trouble in a particular match-up, you can go to this site to see recorded matches for almost any combination of characters as played by top-level players. It hasn't been updated in a while but it still has plenty of quality videos in an organized setup.  
 
 Also, I would encourage the investment in a decent fightstick. If you're still learning it's better to learn on a stick rather than making the switch later. Then again, its really a matter of preference. 

#31 Posted by demontium (4707 posts) -
@dbz1995 said:
" @SuperSecretAgenda said:
" @Stang said:
" 1. A tick throw is a throw attempt after a block string. Jab jab throw is an example. 2. + means you are at a frame advantage, - means your opponent is at an advantage. For instance, lets say on block your move has a -4 frame disadvantage. This means, as Ken, I get a free srk. 3. Nobody can help you here, your best bet is to hit training mode for a long long time. It comes with experience. 4. Again, this is experience. As Akuma, do a demon flip on their wake up. Next time, do a demon flip throw. Next time, do a cross up tatsu. After that, attempt to throw on their wake up.   Sorry I can't help with Gouken, his name is not Ken. "
Gouken. 
 
GouKEN 
"
A mixture of Goku and Ken. "
Actually its a mix of gouki and ken.
#32 Posted by Stang (4726 posts) -

Gouken is a mix of saggy old man balls and broken piece of shit.

#33 Posted by SpecialBuddy (1110 posts) -
@Stang said:
" Gouken is a mix of saggy old man balls and broken piece of shit. "
You just suck at mixup and baiting.
#34 Posted by Adamantium (885 posts) -
@EvilGreenDevil said:
" I can't really add much to what's already been said but I'll try to share what's helped me. 
 
Eventhubs.com - Great site to really get the basics explained. They have beginner and intermediate guides to the game that would answer some of the questions you asked. They also have a very basic character guide that will introduce you to each character's specials, damage, useful normals, and bread n butter (BnB) combos. This was one of the first sites I went to when I wanted to get better.  
 
SRK - Shoryuken.com is home of pretty much the most dedicated SF players. No joke, there's a lot of info on this site including character specific threads (as posted by Ani) as well as video threads for certain characters. Personally I thought this was a little overwhelming when I was first starting out but once you start getting familiar with the game and your characters, the site will help you the things you need to get to the next level.   
 
SF4 Dojo - If you're having trouble in a particular match-up, you can go to this site to see recorded matches for almost any combination of characters as played by top-level players. It hasn't been updated in a while but it still has plenty of quality videos in an organized setup.    Also, I would encourage the investment in a decent fightstick. If you're still learning it's better to learn on a stick rather than making the switch later. Then again, its really a matter of preference.  "
Thx duder! I've actually been checking out SF4 Dojo very recently, it's really nice to see the match-ups! Eventhubs has been my go-to page thus far, nice info and they aren't as exclusive as SRK. Frankly, I'm too afraid to go post at SRK because of the horror stories I hear about new members there. AT any rate, I'm not giving up.
 
@Stang said:
" Gouken is a mix of saggy old man balls and broken piece of shit. "
Way to shit on my dreams Stang! Thanks, duder. I guess I should just practice my flowchart game, right? Bah!
#35 Edited by Stang (4726 posts) -
@SpecialBuddy said:

" @Stang said:

" Gouken is a mix of saggy old man balls and broken piece of shit. "
You just suck at mixup and baiting. "
Says the guy who can't take more then 4 games from me in a first to 10. NOW WHAT??!!
 
@Adamantium:
 
Gouken is great, I just hate his counter attack. A lot.
#36 Posted by Adamantium (885 posts) -
@Stang said:
" @Adamantium:  Gouken is great, I just hate his counter attack. A lot. "
Mark my words Stang: sometime in the next 3 years or so, I'll get a 360 and a copy of SFIV and I WILL.... lose to you 0-20 while trying to prove something with Gouken...
#37 Posted by Stang (4726 posts) -
@Adamantium: Mark my words.....you pick Gouken and I am more free then Hedgehog and Jeff combined. I will lose twice then turn into 12-year-old-just- got-my-first-period Stang and rage.
#38 Posted by Adamantium (885 posts) -
@Stang said:
" @Adamantium: Mark my words.....you pick Gouken and I am more free then Hedgehog and Jeff combined. I will lose twice then turn into 12-year-old-just- got-my-first-period Stang and rage. "
Haha, I can't tell you how much I'd pay to see that!
#39 Edited by Stang (4726 posts) -
@Adamantium: How much? I have a beast Gouken on my friends list, I will shoot him an invite tomorrow so he can beat the shit out of me. I hope you enjoy my pain.
 
edit
 
Bold bug strikes again.
#40 Posted by Adamantium (885 posts) -
@Stang said:
" @Adamantium: How much? I have a beast Gouken on my friends list, I will shoot him an invite tomorrow so he can beat the shit out of me. I hope you enjoy my pain.  edit  Bold bug strikes again. "
Lol. Duder at least a nickel, but you'll make more if crying and screaming is involved!! I require video footage as proof tho!  :D
#41 Posted by Stang (4726 posts) -
@Adamantium: Nickel, sounds good. And yeah, of course I will record it. I will post the first vid here when I get er done.
 
The things I do to make people lol :(
#42 Posted by SpecialBuddy (1110 posts) -
@Stang said:
" @SpecialBuddy said:

" @Stang said:

" Gouken is a mix of saggy old man balls and broken piece of shit. "
You just suck at mixup and baiting. "
Says the guy who can't take more then 4 games from me in a first to 10. NOW WHAT??!!
Your pride is based off nothing.
#43 Posted by Stang (4726 posts) -
@SpecialBuddy said:
" @Stang said:
" @SpecialBuddy said:

" @Stang said:

" Gouken is a mix of saggy old man balls and broken piece of shit. "
You just suck at mixup and baiting. "
Says the guy who can't take more then 4 games from me in a first to 10. NOW WHAT??!!
Your pride is based off nothing. "
Ok?
#44 Posted by SpecialBuddy (1110 posts) -
@Stang said:
" @SpecialBuddy said:
" @Stang said:
" @SpecialBuddy said:

" @Stang said:

" Gouken is a mix of saggy old man balls and broken piece of shit. "
You just suck at mixup and baiting. "
Says the guy who can't take more then 4 games from me in a first to 10. NOW WHAT??!!
Your pride is based off nothing. "
Ok? "
YA! TAKE THAT SUCKA!
#45 Posted by JJOR64 (18883 posts) -

With all this frame talking, it makes me want to know more about it since I really don't know much.

Online
#46 Posted by Stang (4726 posts) -
@SpecialBuddy: You hurt my feelings. I challenge you to a first to 50, loser must main Blanka is Super.
#47 Edited by SpecialBuddy (1110 posts) -
@Stang said:

" @SpecialBuddy: You hurt my feelings. I challenge you to a first to 50, loser must main Blanka is Super. "

I accept that challenge on one condition. If I win you have to only use the most girlish color of Cowboy Ken with taunt 4 in Super at all times.
#48 Posted by Stang (4726 posts) -
@SpecialBuddy: Oh man...fuck it! LETS DO THIS!
#49 Posted by SpecialBuddy (1110 posts) -
@Stang said:
" @SpecialBuddy: Oh man...fuck it! LETS DO THIS! "
Tomorrow anytime after 1 pm your time.
#50 Posted by Stang (4726 posts) -
@SpecialBuddy: Oh, we are being serious! I will be home from the gym by 4, anytime after is fine by me. 
 
Are we really going to 50? Im down I guess, but I am warning you now....creatine + all the water I drink while lifting weights ='s piss breaks every 20 minutes.

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