So... I main Sagat and....

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#1 Edited by TheLastNeo (440 posts) -

Im thinkin of moving on from him for a few reasons.

1. He's God tier, and that inherently comes with a certain "You must be a noob if your using sagat"

2. Ive been questioning my skill level with him, and I realize im not as good as id like to be.

and a few others...

Let me state that I've been playing SF, since World Warrior... so I have much respect for the game, the craft, and the skill that goes into mastering a given character.

I used to main Ken back in the day, but moved to Sagat when HD REMIX came out... so when SFIV came out, my logical move was to remain with Sagat... .little did I know he's be top tier...

I'll openly admit that im not that good, but Im not that horrible either. Of the many sagats that Ive fought online I can comfortably say that I dont really play like them (but then again, Sagat vs Sagat matches arent really "normal" fights)

Here are a few matches for reference... feel free to shred them to bits.. i have thick skin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EISRAzs5WUc (this one was recorded just a few days ago , some random dude recorded a match between him and i) [Sagat vs Cammy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YehU16Fbz0o - [Sagat vs Cammy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmsjuHHHlAY - [Sagat vs Ryu]... ryu owns me the first round.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mav_gnKfQAo - [Sagat vs Abel] .. this match clearly defines Sagats stamina, and ability to take damage... its almost unfair, and I feel like I won this match because of tier differential.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4lzLg-E5YU - [Sagat vs Seth] - We duke it out in this match

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HwmXT718zM - [Sagat vs Guile] - This match was epic cuz me and this guy had fought twice before and he was talking tons of garbage between each match..

I have a few more, but you get the gist of it...

What im lookin for is just some straight up honest critique... Should I stay w/ Sagat? Move on? Im interested in picking up GUY when Super comes out, since he was my fav during the alpha series just cuz he looks cool as hell, and he's different.

My other favs include: Ryu, Ken, Akuma, Guile, Dhalsim, Dictator, Gouken is fun too...

Im currently G1-E rank right around 15000ish points (not that it means anything, but just putting a number on it)

Dunno, guess im just reflecting and tryin to figure out which direction to go...

Im really lookin for some help fellas....

Thanks in advance.

#2 Posted by Stang (4726 posts) -

Lets play.

#3 Posted by AniMoney (957 posts) -

Yeah I'd rather play you before giving any advice. 
 
GT: AniMoney

#4 Posted by lordofultima (6247 posts) -

Who cares what people say about you playing Sagat? I really like the way he plays, so I've been trying to learn a bit about him. That should be your main criteria for choosing a character, doesn't have to be about tiers to want to play Sagat.

#5 Posted by StaticFalconar (4849 posts) -

When it comes down to it, play to have fun and play to win. I always say give a new character a try since you never know if the new character fits your playstyle better until you use them, but if you really want to know if your sagat is good, join a GB tournament and see how you fair. 

#6 Posted by SuperSecretAgenda (696 posts) -

Stick with him. He's going to be nerfed in SSFIV anyway. We all know it's coming.

#7 Posted by Stang (4726 posts) -

Joining/winning a GB tournament means nothing. All it means is that you can advance because nobody shows up.

#8 Posted by lordofultima (6247 posts) -
@SuperSecretAgenda said:
" Stick with him. He's going to be nerfed in SSFIV anyway. We all know it's coming. "
I'm sure he'll be buffed in more ways than he's nerfed.
#9 Posted by Stang (4726 posts) -
@lordofultima said:
" @SuperSecretAgenda said:
" Stick with him. He's going to be nerfed in SSFIV anyway. We all know it's coming. "
I'm sure he'll be buffed in more ways than he's nerfed. "
This has been confirmed by Killian. Everybody will be buffed, so expect even more Sagat shenanigans. I just hope they take out his trade to ultra bullshit. So weak.
#10 Posted by StaticFalconar (4849 posts) -
@Stang said:
" Joining/winning a GB tournament means nothing. All it means is that you can advance because nobody shows up. "
yeah, you're right, scratch that. Just join a real tournament and see how sagat fairs. 
#11 Posted by InfiniteStateMachine (215 posts) -

I would say main someone else simply for the reason it will give you a broader spectrum of experience with the SF4 characters. Maining as someone else for a while can actually make you better with your former main as you learn other sides of the game. 
 
I usually main as chun then go to someone else for a month or 2 then come back to chun with a fresh perspective.

#12 Posted by SpecialBuddy (1110 posts) -

Stay with Sagat. We don't have any players of the guy on the forums so keep with it. Who cares if he is top tear? He not as bad as Gill from 3s or Akuma from HDR. Now toughs guys are stupid.

#13 Posted by sho76und3wd (148 posts) -

If you like Sagat, use Sagat.  Honestly, who cares what people say about it.  He isn't unbeatable, so who cares.  Just keep working with him.

#14 Posted by ZombieHunterOG (3530 posts) -

NOOB :P 
 
 
no i dont think anyone really cares, the people who care are people who either lose to him or dont know how to fight him and then thats just there fault 

#15 Posted by Stang (4726 posts) -
@SpecialBuddy said:
" Stay with Sagat. We don't have any players of the guy on the forums so keep with it. "
No shit, I didn't realize that till you said it. Kind of odd there are no other Sagat's here!
#16 Posted by TheLastNeo (440 posts) -

 You know its pretty crazy to see the dramatic difference in replies that I got here vs the gamefaqs.com boards....


They pretty much said that My sagat is very very very basic, which I agree with.  My only real regret is that it took me so long to figure it out.


Im considering Akuma, Dictator, Ken, Guile ... as my next main... in that order.




Still up in the air... .




advice?    

#17 Posted by ZombieHunterOG (3530 posts) -

Well my advice is as long as your having fun it doesn't mater but if your board sure try another character maybe you will like them more then sagat  
 
 
also this is needed in a thread about SF4 
 
GET HYPE!!!!!!

#18 Posted by Stang (4726 posts) -

Ken. Real men use him. Just don't turn into a mashing moron.

#19 Posted by StaticFalconar (4849 posts) -
@TheLastNeo said:
"  You know its pretty crazy to see the dramatic difference in replies that I got here vs the gamefaqs.com boards.... They pretty much said that My sagat is very very very basic, which I agree with.  My only real regret is that it took me so long to figure it out. Im considering Akuma, Dictator, Ken, Guile ... as my next main... in that order. Still up in the air... . advice?     "
Eh, your playstyle is just different. Sure you never use FADC cause you keeping burning through them using EX moves instead but for the most part when you used them they hit so its not like you were wasting them that much. You use FA to bait jumps ins as opposed to his Rh kick into ultra, but your way still ends with an ultra. You're smart enough to not just blindly throw fireballs hoping the lag will mess up their jumping timing.  
 
 
Out of those four characters you mentioned, I recommend dictator just cause it fits your style and is totally different than your previous character so you won't get into old habits and play your new main like your Sagat. Although we do have a Akuma, Guile and Ken player on this board so i'm pretty sure they can teach you a thing or two. 
#20 Posted by TheLastNeo (440 posts) -
@StaticFalconar: cool.. thanks for that.  I've played with Dictator casually over the years, and I like his speed, and his specials are pretty effective as well.  I enjoy charge characters, as its a bit nostalgic for me.   (first character i used ever in SF was guile... )
#21 Posted by SpecialBuddy (1110 posts) -
@TheLastNeo: Well if they are saying that your Sagat is basic then it sounds to me that all you need to do is pick up some new tricks, combos, or tactics. Sagat is not really a basic character. I know a guy who plays Sagat and he is a beast. He showed me tricks that I didnt even know Sagat had. Just look on SRK or Youtube and look for some new things to make them think otherwise about your "basic" Sagat. ;P
#22 Posted by Thrawn1 (1340 posts) -

I assume you're talking about binh and his juggles? such a waste of talent, I'm pretty sure he's completely switched over to tekken.

#23 Posted by SpecialBuddy (1110 posts) -
@Thrawn said:
" I assume you're talking about binh and his juggles? such a waste of talent, I'm pretty sure he's completely switched over to tekken. "
Well we will just give him hell next time we see him. When is that? The 19th?
#24 Posted by demontium (4709 posts) -
@TheLastNeo: Sagat is just as good as any other character, in fact he gets his ass smashed by blanka. 
 
Be him if you are good with him, but a good transition from him would be to Ryu. 
 
He is the next best fireball thrower IMO, and has a ready set of attacks both in air and on ground. 
 
Very balanced and fun to play.
#25 Posted by Thrawn1 (1340 posts) -

Yeah that or fight club. Goons isn't happening for awhile so all the pros are coming to fc. He was even there last night. You should have come, I brought pizza. lol don't worry about it though lots of regulars were missing such as allen and dj

#26 Posted by lordofultima (6247 posts) -
@demontium said:
" @TheLastNeo: Sagat is just as good as any other character, in fact he gets his ass smashed by blanka.  Be him if you are good with him, but a good transition from him would be to Ryu.  He is the next best fireball thrower IMO, and has a ready set of attacks both in air and on ground.  Very balanced and fun to play. "
If by smashed you mean 5-5 match-up, then sure. Sagat's worst match-up is probably Dhalsim, and that's still a 5-5 match.
#27 Posted by demontium (4709 posts) -
@lordofultima said:
" @demontium said:
" @TheLastNeo: Sagat is just as good as any other character, in fact he gets his ass smashed by blanka.  Be him if you are good with him, but a good transition from him would be to Ryu.  He is the next best fireball thrower IMO, and has a ready set of attacks both in air and on ground.  Very balanced and fun to play. "
If by smashed you mean 5-5 match-up, then sure. Sagat's worst match-up is probably Dhalsim, and that's still a 5-5 match. "
Dude, I will pretty much accept what you say, but Sagat is not "god tier" 
 
He always has a weakness, and in the hands of a non-perfect player (99% of SF players) he can be beaten.
#28 Edited by lordofultima (6247 posts) -
@demontium said:

" @lordofultima said:

" @demontium said:
" @TheLastNeo: Sagat is just as good as any other character, in fact he gets his ass smashed by blanka.  Be him if you are good with him, but a good transition from him would be to Ryu.  He is the next best fireball thrower IMO, and has a ready set of attacks both in air and on ground.  Very balanced and fun to play. "
If by smashed you mean 5-5 match-up, then sure. Sagat's worst match-up is probably Dhalsim, and that's still a 5-5 match. "
Dude, I will pretty much accept what you say, but Sagat is not "god tier"  He always has a weakness, and in the hands of a non-perfect player (99% of SF players) he can be beaten. "
I'm not arguing that he's god tier at all, in fact we had a long heated argument about this on the forums with someone else. I'm saying he doesn't have bad match-ups. Obviously each player plays differently, you made it sound like Blanka whooped his ass when he definitely doesn't, it might even be 6-4 sagat's favor.
#29 Posted by demontium (4709 posts) -
@lordofultima: Well, as a semi-blanka player, Sagat seems to be one of my easiest match ups 
 
They try to throw fireballs, but thats thwarted through his Ex ball, backstep roll over them, cross him up and combo/throw, or blanka slide. 
 
Once he gets knocked down, then you have even more options: blanka ball cross up, blanka slide, blanka hop and sweep/grab, jump medium kick crossup and combo/grab (all of which, if done right, can go unpunished and repeated).
#30 Posted by Stang (4726 posts) -
@demontium: Bottom line is that in the hands of top players, Sagat's worst matchup is 5-5. That is all Ultima is saying. Nobody here is professional (besides me), so the tiers don't mean shit. Sagat/Ken is 6/4, but more often then not I beat Sagat's. Why? 360 scrub Sagat's have no idea what the hell to do when you are in their face. If I was playing LI Joe, Sanford or any other pro, I would get absolutely destroyed.
#31 Posted by demontium (4709 posts) -
@Stang said:
" @demontium: Bottom line is that in the hands of top players, Sagat's worst matchup is 5-5. That is all Ultima is saying. Nobody here is professional (besides me), so the tiers don't mean shit. Sagat/Ken is 6/4, but more often then not I beat Sagat's. Why? 360 scrub Sagat's have no idea what the hell to do when you are in their face. If I was playing LI Joe, Sanford or any other pro, I would get absolutely destroyed. "
Well, then I guess I just play other scrubs, and therefore meet no sagat challenge, but seriously, as blanka vs sagat, you do have a lot of unpunishable options.
#32 Posted by Thrawn1 (1340 posts) -

specialbuddy get your ass over to srk and accept scrub arthur's challenge so we can all get paid. btw he mains cammy and honda. he knows more about sfiv than any person in dfw but he can't apply any of it during a match which explains why he's so cocky yet loses so often.

#33 Posted by SpecialBuddy (1110 posts) -
@Thrawn said:
" specialbuddy get your ass over to srk and accept scrub arthur's challenge so we can all get paid. btw he mains cammy and honda. he knows more about sfiv than any person in dfw but he can't apply any of it during a match which explains why he's so cocky yet loses so often. "
OH WAIT! The guy with the glasses? I'm taking that money match. I am wondering though if he means a match or just a "who has prettier hands" contest.
#34 Posted by Thrawn1 (1340 posts) -

yeah i think he wears glasses...he has a beard, longish hair, is white, talks a lot and is usually pretty loud when drunk. lol take that mm

#35 Posted by Scooper (7882 posts) -

Stay with who you like to play. I've caved twice now because of pressure from people saying who I play is lame. I started with Sagat because he's one of my favourite characters in the SF universe but got ousted by people for using him so I went to my other favourite, Ryu and got the same treatment. Now I play Guile who no one can really complain about but still manage to go back to the old chessnut of "nice turtling lol" if I beat them which is funny considering I play a pretty middling range offensive/defensive playstyle and usualy the people who say I was turtling are the people who are in the corner for most of the match and confuse good pressure and controlling space as turtling.

#36 Posted by TheLastNeo (440 posts) -

You know at the end of the day people will find a million things to bitch about.....      I've gotten pissed off many a time if someone totally owns me, but I dont bitch about it.. infact I do just the opposite...I msg, and send a compliment or something to that effect, since obviously whatever that person did worked. 
 
And at the end of the day, its all about winning... 
 
With that said, i'd still like to be able to with with Style ;)

#37 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -

Since everybody else can be so kind towards you, I'll be the bearer of bad news: you're not very good. At all. Your game consists of stupid, gimmicky crap such as knocking somebody back, jumping back until your on the other side, and then spamming Tiger Shots and s.FK. You have absolutely no inside game other than random Tiger Uppercuts and s.FK. Your tactics might work in online play, but you'll get wrecked any place else.
 
And, I'd like to fight you just to show you how important it is to have an inside game. I'm pretty sure everybody here can attest to the importance of that, as that is oftentimes do or die for a lot of players. If you hope to get better, it might not be a bad idea to watch some YouTube videos of solid Sagat players and look at their tactics and steal from them. This is how I got better with Guile. Everybody starts scrubby. However, you can't get better until you fight others better than you and look at players who are better than you.

#38 Posted by AniMoney (957 posts) -
@Napalm said:
" Since everybody else can be so kind towards you, I'll be the bearer of bad news: you're not very good. At all. Your game consists of stupid, gimmicky crap such as knocking somebody back, jumping back until your on the other side, and then spamming Tiger Shots and s.FK. "
Thats not a gimmick, that's what most Sagat players do. 
#39 Posted by lordofultima (6247 posts) -
@Napalm said:
" Since everybody else can be so kind towards you, I'll be the bearer of bad news: you're not very good. At all. Your game consists of stupid, gimmicky crap such as knocking somebody back, jumping back until your on the other side, and then spamming Tiger Shots and s.FK. You have absolutely no inside game other than random Tiger Uppercuts and s.FK. Your tactics might work in online play, but you'll get wrecked any place else.  And, I'd like to fight you just to show you how important it is to have an inside game. I'm pretty sure everybody here can attest to the importance of that, as that is oftentimes do or die for a lot of players. If you hope to get better, it might not be a bad idea to watch some YouTube videos of solid Sagat players and look at their tactics and steal from them. This is how I got better with Guile. Everybody starts scrubby. However, you can't get better until you fight others better than you and look at players who are better than you. "
gimmick: (n) A concealed, usually devious aspect or feature of something.
 
Throwing tiger shots and hitting standing roundhouse is not gimmickry at all. A gimmick is me jumping in the air as Akuma, doing EX tatsu to slow my decent, and then landing and doing an Ultra.
#40 Posted by bjorno (1416 posts) -

just start maining drunken jackie

#41 Posted by Gunner_Thor (74 posts) -
@TheLastNeo:

Send me an invite, on after 9 PST
#42 Posted by TheLastNeo (440 posts) -

Ok, so here we are a few months later, and i've been thinking about this a bit more. (problem is my damn xbox took a shit, so I've been offline for a while.... Finally got a replacement in the mail yesterday and guess what...  fucking RROD [needless to say im pretty ripped] ) 
 
I did manage to play for a bit with a few other characters for a bit... I usually default to Guile, Ken, Akuma, Gouken.. and occasionally throw in Bison or Ryu. 
 
Also, i stopped playing Champion Matches exclusively... I played these most often simply because the connection quality was always way better. 
 
 
Long story short, I think im just going to stick with Sagat, and not focus so much on trying to learn crazy shit, and focus more on improving the quality of my core game. 
 
 
With that said, i'd love a few matches from some of GB's best!   GT: THELASTNEO 

#43 Edited by Napalm (9020 posts) -
@TheLastNeo: Sagat is getting some changes for SSFIV, so keep an eye on the list so you don't get too used to something they change. Stick with Sagat and be creative.
#44 Posted by misterpope (379 posts) -
@TheLastNeo: Good. Stick with Sagat. Your character really should just come down to who you like the best, or is the funnest to play. 
 
I played Abel awhile, waffled between him and Ken, then him and Honda, and now I've decided on Akuma. I just really dig his playstyle. 
 
Course, I suck, so it doesn't really matter. Tiers are stupid. Believe in yourself.
#45 Posted by Stang (4726 posts) -
@Tarsier: Learn to play.  
 
@TheLastNeo: Im a scrub but looking to get better, hit me up for some matches. GT is Da Stang.
#46 Posted by Necrotrophic (261 posts) -

I would say, try out Sagat when Super comes out.
 
If you like him still, stick with him, if not move on.
 
The real question you need to ask yourself is what is your style, and what character suits it best?

#47 Edited by Sooty (8082 posts) -

Sagat has been nerfed to high heaven, damage is down across the board, health is down, trade into ultra is harder/more situational, standing light kick cancels are gone too.
 
However nothing has really changed, he will still play the same with the exception of his standing light kick now being ass. (farewell tiger knee traps)
 
Easily gonna be high tier still, all of his tools are pretty much intact but no longer will you pull off shit like this for 700 damage; 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g2sfJUaGIk
 
Edit: If you look at some of the more recent SSFIV videos you will see how much lower his damage is, I was really surprised when I first saw the changes in effect.

#48 Posted by TheLastNeo (440 posts) -
@Ygg said:
" Sagat has been nerfed to high heaven, damage is down across the board, health is down, trade into ultra is harder/more situational, standing light kick cancels are gone too. However nothing has really changed, he will still play the same with the exception of his standing light kick now being ass. (farewell tiger knee traps) Easily gonna be high tier still, all of his tools are pretty much intact but no longer will you pull off shit like this for 700 damage;  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g2sfJUaGIk  Edit: If you look at some of the more recent SSFIV videos you will see how much lower his damage is, I was really surprised when I first saw the changes in effect. "
I'll probably still main him, and just roll with the punches... Im also lookin to use Guy, just cuz I always liked his whole "character" design / badassness...
#49 Posted by Jemenez (274 posts) -

I don't really care that much about tiers. I main Fuerte and I can easily when against Sagat's or Ryu pretty easily, I pick Fuerte because no one knows how to fight him.

#50 Posted by TheLastNeo (440 posts) -
@Jemenez said:
" I don't really care that much about tiers. I main Fuerte and I can easily when against Sagat's or Ryu pretty easily, I pick Fuerte because no one knows how to fight him. "
 
I hate that you're right...      I struggle against a really good fuerte...

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