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    Street Fighter IV

    Game » consists of 9 releases. Released Jul 18, 2008

    After nearly a decade in hiatus, Capcom's signature mainline fighting game series resurfaces with its fourth main installment, combining the traditional 2D gameplay with modern fully-3D graphics.

    You're a Tool, assisted video,

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    Jeffsekai

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    #1  Edited By Jeffsekai

    A hot topic these days (and by that I mean like 4 people are talking about it) is the concept of a tool assisted video. Well I did some poking around and found this : 
    http://sonichurricane.com/articles/sftoolrationale.html Its a great write up detailing what tool assisted actually means and the work that goes into it. It also discusses what is and isn't possible with a "tool" 
     
    Anyways enjoy. Click the spoiler for the whole story if you don't wanna click the link (FAIR WARNING: Its long but good.)
     

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    napalm

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    #2  Edited By napalm

    I'm not fucking reading that entire thing, but I'm going to assume that by the syntax of your title, it seems like tool-assisted execution is stupid and cheap.

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    PureRok

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    #3  Edited By PureRok
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    Stang

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    #4  Edited By Stang

    Tool assisted = you are incapable of doing it yourself.

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    Jeffsekai

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    #5  Edited By Jeffsekai
    @Napalm said:
    " I'm not fucking reading that entire thing, but I'm going to assume that by the syntax of your title, it seems like tool-assisted execution is stupid and cheap. "
    This sums up how smart you are Napalm thanks for that.@Stang said:
    " Tool assisted = you are incapable of doing it yourself. "
    Indeed, I am assuming you didn't read any of it. Oh well
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    napalm

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    #6  Edited By napalm

    I'm assuming that with the long explanation, it goes into the depths of it, but past the point of where I stop caring.

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    Bigandtasty

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    #7  Edited By Bigandtasty

    Combo videos are for the fun and spectacle of seeing this crazy stuff, and if a combo requires multiple one-frame links then I would say tool-assisted combos are fine in that case. Consistently doing one-frame links perfectly is not easy nor is it the best measure of "skill".

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    Stang

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    #8  Edited By Stang
    @Jeffsekai: I graduated from college a couple years ago. I have no interest in reading that much text unless I have to.
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    Flushes

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    #9  Edited By Flushes

    Remember when you could post something of substance on this board and not get shit on immediately? Those were the days.

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    SpecialBuddy

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    #10  Edited By SpecialBuddy
    @Flushes said:
    " Remember when you could post something of substance on this board and not get shit on immediately? Those were the days. "
    Truth right here.
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    MrKlorox

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    #11  Edited By MrKlorox

    I would love to have Tool's Adam Jones assistance in making a video.

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    lordofultima

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    #12  Edited By lordofultima

    Summarize in 15 words or less please thank you. IMO, Tool-Assisting is some sort of voodoo magic for people who are lazy. And what I say is basically gospel so the sooner you accept this fact the better.

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    Symphony

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    #13  Edited By Symphony

    A summary for those who felt this was TL;DR:

     
    The person is defending tool-assisted videos as an art form more than anything. Such videos can showcase hidden facets of a game's combat system that people didn't realize existed. They state that the amount of trail and error required is insane and that it takes a lot of patience to pull off these videos as things don't go right about 95% of the time. So to get those videos to execute as they do takes many attempts and the payout is having a cool looking combo (that no one will [or can] ever actually use) to show off. 
     
    That's about it. There's also some stuff about how the best players won't be spending countless hours in training mode doing this, and also about how people who say it takes no talent to make a tool-assisted video are idiots.
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    foodchaiNN

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    #14  Edited By foodchaiNN

    oh my.. I get it now. I always feared this but I hope this has not reached the age of fighting game toggles. Its like how cheaters play cod4 online.. they use these auto-aim cheats that help them aim. Well what if some loser had a tool-assistant toggle to help him win matches.. that would be the end of SF4 online. Its very possible because its been that way with online FPS for ages. 
     
    Dont get me wrong..I understand what tool-assist is used for but it would suck if someone made it into a cheat program to win matches with online.

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    tmthomsen

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    #15  Edited By tmthomsen

     

      I find them very enjoying to watch.
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    lordofultima

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    #16  Edited By lordofultima

    I already figured that's what it meant, and I pretty much stand by my sentiment, they're lazy or straight up not capable of doing said combo, which makes me feel cheated as a viewer and also confirms that I myself could never consistently do the combo myself. I would never use tool-assist in my videos (not that my tutorials are full of insane combos). 
     
    As an example, my vortex videos are maybe 20 minutes in combined length, but I recorded about 4 hours of footage. A lot of that is messing up a set-up that I'm trying to get after completing another set-up, to keep a smooth transition-free feel to each section. Hell, the last vortex example in part 2 took me almost an hour to record. I would keep messing up and dropping a combo somewhere in one of those loops, I could have very well just let that footage into the video but I didn't want to look dumb and have something not combo, so I did it over and over and over again until it looked sweet. If that was tool-assisted I would have accomplished pretty much nothing and would feel my videos were trash. 
     
    I'm not even debating the legitimacy of tool-assisted matches, I'm against even using them for demonstrative purposes.

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    Bigandtasty

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    #17  Edited By Bigandtasty
    @lordofultima said:
    "I'm not even debating the legitimacy of tool-assisted matches, I'm against even using them for demonstrative purposes. "
    Even if it's done entirely just for fun?
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    lordofultima

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    #18  Edited By lordofultima
    @Bigandtasty said:
    " @lordofultima said:
    "I'm not even debating the legitimacy of tool-assisted matches, I'm against even using them for demonstrative purposes. "
    Even if it's done entirely just for fun? "
    Well since it supports my general meh consensus I have for all combo exhibitions, yes. It is neat that we get to unearth properties in a combo we never imagined were possible, but as someone who records tutorials and edits videos it makes me upset.
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    Symphony

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    #19  Edited By Symphony

    I probably should have mentioned I couldn't care less about tool-assisted videos personally, but figured I'd be nice and summarize it as plenty of people on the Internets see more than a paragraph of text and run away screaming ;P

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    foodchaiNN

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    #20  Edited By foodchaiNN
    @lordofultima said:
    " @Bigandtasty said:
    " @lordofultima said:
    "I'm not even debating the legitimacy of tool-assisted matches, I'm against even using them for demonstrative purposes. "
    Even if it's done entirely just for fun? "
    Well since it supports my general meh consensus I have for all combo exhibitions, yes. It is neat that we get to unearth properties in a combo we never imagined were possible, but as someone who records tutorials and edits videos it makes me upset. "
    Im with you whole way.. I really dont enjoy it for sf4 because it just takes out the pioneering factor of discovering things for yourself first. I dont really give credit to a guy who programs his pad to show off combos.. he needs to stop being lazy about shit that people have actually worked hard to accomplish.
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    PhaggyBigNastyMcKill

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    @lordofultima said:
    " @Bigandtasty said:
    " @lordofultima said:
    "I'm not even debating the legitimacy of tool-assisted matches, I'm against even using them for demonstrative purposes. "
    Even if it's done entirely just for fun? "
    Well since it supports my general meh consensus I have for all combo exhibitions, yes. It is neat that we get to unearth properties in a combo we never imagined were possible, but as someone who records tutorials and edits videos it makes me upset. "
    Yeah, but your vids are supposed to be in the spirit of being a tutorial by telling us even if its situational to the character match up what is possible and effective in a match. All the tool assisted stuff shows at the very least what is possible and can give some players ideas for thier own combos. Afterall, even the most situational of combos are only worth pursuing if you know its possible.
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    Scooper

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    #22  Edited By Scooper

    I like watching tool asssted videos but I don't watch them in the same light as a natural one. When I watch a tool assisted video I'm impressed by the game, when I watch a natural video I'm impressed by the player. Simple as that. They're not one and the same.
     
    @Bigandtasty said:

    " Combo videos are for the fun and spectacle of seeing this crazy stuff, and if a combo requires multiple one-frame links then I would say tool-assisted combos are fine in that case. Consistently doing one-frame links perfectly is not easy nor is it the best measure of "skill". "


    That's pretty much what I think too. Apart from the 'consistantly' part. The people making natural combo videos don't need to be consistant at all. They could manage to do the combo once in 4 hours of footage but to the watcher it looks like they nail it 100% of the time. It's the players in the tornyments that blow out a huge 1 frame link combo that's impressive because to do that there you really do require some hard  as stone consistancy.
     
     
    Edit: Just watched the Guile TA exibition and saw someone's name in the credits....
     

    No Caption Provided
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    Shadow

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    #23  Edited By Shadow
    @lordofultima said:
    " @Bigandtasty said:
    " @lordofultima said:
    "I'm not even debating the legitimacy of tool-assisted matches, I'm against even using them for demonstrative purposes. "
    Even if it's done entirely just for fun? "
    Well since it supports my general meh consensus I have for all combo exhibitions, yes. It is neat that we get to unearth properties in a combo we never imagined were possible, but as someone who records tutorials and edits videos it makes me upset. "
    Well that's just stupid.  While playing an actual game, well then of course, by the definition of the word, it's cheating.  Doing it for entertainment (non-competitive) purposes though, is entirely victimless and completely fine.
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    Jeffsekai

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    #24  Edited By Jeffsekai

    The people making Tool assisted videos aren't doing it to say look at me I am amazing, they do it to show off the game and the potential it holds. Its purly for entertainment value and mabey to show people whats possible.
     
    Just look at the Ryu combo video shown at Evo2k9 it was done with a Tool but people still enjoyed the hell out of it, which is exactly what its suppose to do.
     
     
     

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    Plasma

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    #25  Edited By Plasma
    @Jeffsekai said:
    " The people making Tool assisted videos aren't doing it to say look at me I am amazing, they do it to show off the game and the potential it holds. Its purly for entertainment value and mabey to show people whats possible.
     
    Just look at the Ryu combo video shown at Evo2k9 it was done with a Tool but people still enjoyed the hell out of it, which is exactly what its suppose to do."
     
    Stop trying, they don't get it. They can't be bothered. Your in the right, tool-assisted means that cool combos can be found much easier, and they wont miss stuff due to human error.  
     
     Its almost like you tried to say something intelligent on the internet, of course that's just stupid.
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    SpecialBuddy

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    #26  Edited By SpecialBuddy
    @Scooper said:
    " I like watching tool asssted videos but I don't watch them in the same light as a natural one. When I watch a tool assisted video I'm impressed by the game, when I watch a natural video I'm impressed by the player. Simple as that. They're not one and the same.
     
    @Bigandtasty said:

    " Combo videos are for the fun and spectacle of seeing this crazy stuff, and if a combo requires multiple one-frame links then I would say tool-assisted combos are fine in that case. Consistently doing one-frame links perfectly is not easy nor is it the best measure of "skill". "


    That's pretty much what I think too. Apart from the 'consistantly' part. The people making natural combo videos don't need to be consistant at all. They could manage to do the combo once in 4 hours of footage but to the watcher it looks like they nail it 100% of the time. It's the players in the tornyments that blow out a huge 1 frame link combo that's impressive because to do that there you really do require some hard  as stone consistancy.
     
     
    Edit: Just watched the Guile TA exibition and saw someone's name in the credits....
     

    No Caption Provided
    "
    There is a guy who just goes by the name of Ultima. So more than likely it is that guy. Unless our Ultima says something different.
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    lordofultima

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    #27  Edited By lordofultima

    There is a dude named Ultima in the community, he's been around for a while. I would hope people would credit me as lordofultima or loltima (that's why I coined the latter nickname recently). 
     

    @Shadow

    said:

    " @lordofultima said:

    " @Bigandtasty said:
    " @lordofultima said:
    "I'm not even debating the legitimacy of tool-assisted matches, I'm against even using them for demonstrative purposes. "
    Even if it's done entirely just for fun? "
    Well since it supports my general meh consensus I have for all combo exhibitions, yes. It is neat that we get to unearth properties in a combo we never imagined were possible, but as someone who records tutorials and edits videos it makes me upset. "
    Well that's just stupid.  While playing an actual game, well then of course, by the definition of the word, it's cheating.  Doing it for entertainment (non-competitive) purposes though, is entirely victimless and completely fine. "
    People that record cool combos without doing it theirself is lame, that's what I'm saying. As someone who does a lot of recording myself and does it the boring "with my actual hands" way, I find it lame. I'm sorry if you're trying to dictate what I can and cannot find dumb, it doesn't work that way. I find ketchup dumb too, you're going to tell me that's a lie as well I'm sure.
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    SpecialBuddy

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    #28  Edited By SpecialBuddy

    I think combo exhibitions are supposed to be what they say they are, an exhibition. So in that case I am in favor of this sort of thing.

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    MysteriousBob

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    #29  Edited By MysteriousBob
    @Stang said:
    " Tool assisted = you are incapable of doing it yourself. "
    Maybe you should try, oh I dunno, reading and being informed before you make stupid statements. 
     
    Although your technically not wrong- thats exactly why TAS videos are so entertaining. Playing to perfection as a demonstration of the limits of a game. They are infinitely harder to make than a simple show of skill.
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    Stang

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    #30  Edited By Stang

    How the fuck are you calling my statement stupid then saying I am technically not wrong? Perhaps you should, oh I dunno, use your head before contradicting yourself, eh? And, like I said, anything with tool assists are lame. I don't give a hell about what a bunch of macros can do, I want to see somebody do it LEGIT.

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    PureRok

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    #31  Edited By PureRok
    @MysteriousBob said:
    " @Stang said:
    " Tool assisted = you are incapable of doing it yourself. "
    Maybe you should try, oh I dunno, reading and being informed before you make stupid statements.  Although your technically not wrong- thats exactly why TAS videos are so entertaining. Playing to perfection as a demonstration of the limits of a game. They are infinitely harder to make than a simple show of skill. "
    Which was the point of my linking to tasvideos.org.
     
    @lordofultima said:
    " Summarize in 15 words or less please thank you. IMO, Tool-Assisting is some sort of voodoo magic for people who are lazy. And what I say is basically gospel so the sooner you accept this fact the better. "
     
    A person doing a tool assisted video isn't "lazy". On the contrary, you have to be pretty damn determined to do a tool assisted video. Especially since you start doing things frame by frame. It takes hours to do about twenty minutes of video. A lazy person can't do a TAS, since doing a TAS would contradict you being lazy.
     
    I'm not sure what tools are being used for SFIV, but when I talk about tool assisted, I talk about everything on tasvideos.org, since I have actual experience doing that.
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    Scooper

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    #32  Edited By Scooper

    Exactaly PureRok. I enjoyed watching the tool-assisted speedrun of Half-Life 2. Sure they used a macro to press buttons but they still had to plan the best route and move the mouse skillfully to get the best time. Just because it's tool assisted doesn't mean you've got no skill, just a different kind of skill. Is the skill of creating a combo by using tool assist as great as someone who done it all by himself? No, not even close. But it does take skill nonetheless.

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    lordofultima

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    #33  Edited By lordofultima

    I am with Stang on this to be honest, I understand that the combos are technically possible, and I understand that tool-assisted videos may help in discovery of combo mechanics and tricks...but I don't really care. If I'm watching a combo exhibition isn't the exciting part that there are people doing this out there in the world, with their actual hands on an arcade stick/controller? That Akuma exhibition was played completely on pad and recorded by two guys, those combos are silly and not really viable, but they are execution intensive and those guys performed them, IN VERSUS MATCHES no less. 
      
    @PureRok: It takes me about 2 days to edit 20 minutes of video, so I really don't see the argument there. If I record for an hour on one combo, how is programming a combo frame by frame for an hour amazing? At least after an hour my execution regarding that combo has gotten better, and I have accomplished something. 
     
    I rest my case pretty much though, if I watch some cool combo and get a boner over it, it will most certainly go flaccid once it says "Tool Assisted" at the end of the video. Nothing else to say.     

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