Holy Hell Capcom, Really?! Dan is gonna shill Gems now?

Posted by Noct (306 posts) -

Ok, I was a little cheesed off about the whole PacMan/MegaMan crap in the first place, but this just takes the freaking cake man.

At the moment, I'm trying to finish off the Challenge mode, as I just love someone kicing me in the crotch for hours on end for some reason...

Anyways, this one match towards the end is the most ridiculous case of "cheating AI" I've seen (outside MK) in a while. It wants to be really difficult, so rather then figuring out a way to make the AI "better", they just released them of any of the laws of the game. For example, Hugo is one of the opponents in the match, who happens to have an air-throw.

In this particular fight, if you jump, Hugo air-throws you. It doesn't matter where you are, what move you're doing, etc.. I've seen him literally slide across the screen/air and pull Ryu out of a mid-air hurricane kick from almost full-screen distance... Yeah, that seems plausible. I've seen one of the other opponents in the match (King) repeatedly yank Zangief out of a spinning lariet and pile drive him. I'm sure there is some frame of animation you can do that in yourself, but no'one has ever done it to me in 20 years of playing SF...

Anyways, point being, this one match is insanely hard, on purpose. As with all the other matches in the challenge mode, it's "hosted" by Dan, and if you lose, he'll typically give you gem usage advice that will help you win that particular match. For example, on the long matches with several opponents, he'll advise you to use a regenerating-health gem.

Well after this match kicked the living hell out of me for a while, I got the following outstanding advice from Dan about my Gem usage:

"I'll be honest, you're getting rocked hard! Let me give you some advice!"

"I got my gems from "that place" Yes, "there", They're much better then regular gems!"

"Of course, "that place" is the STORE. You better check it out!"

- Dan "The Salesman" Hibiki

I mean come on man... that's pretty nasty, and the perfect, shining example of not only exactly what NOT to do with DLC, but exactly what SF fans were worried about when Gems were first announced.

SF has now become pay to play. Buying the game isn't enough; Hell, buying the Collectors Edition had already given some players an unfair advantage, and now Capcom (via Dan) makes it CLEAR that they intend to make this issue much worse. You will literally be harder to beat depending on how much money you spend on gems.

What. The. Balls.

#1 Posted by Noct (306 posts) -

Ok, I was a little cheesed off about the whole PacMan/MegaMan crap in the first place, but this just takes the freaking cake man.

At the moment, I'm trying to finish off the Challenge mode, as I just love someone kicing me in the crotch for hours on end for some reason...

Anyways, this one match towards the end is the most ridiculous case of "cheating AI" I've seen (outside MK) in a while. It wants to be really difficult, so rather then figuring out a way to make the AI "better", they just released them of any of the laws of the game. For example, Hugo is one of the opponents in the match, who happens to have an air-throw.

In this particular fight, if you jump, Hugo air-throws you. It doesn't matter where you are, what move you're doing, etc.. I've seen him literally slide across the screen/air and pull Ryu out of a mid-air hurricane kick from almost full-screen distance... Yeah, that seems plausible. I've seen one of the other opponents in the match (King) repeatedly yank Zangief out of a spinning lariet and pile drive him. I'm sure there is some frame of animation you can do that in yourself, but no'one has ever done it to me in 20 years of playing SF...

Anyways, point being, this one match is insanely hard, on purpose. As with all the other matches in the challenge mode, it's "hosted" by Dan, and if you lose, he'll typically give you gem usage advice that will help you win that particular match. For example, on the long matches with several opponents, he'll advise you to use a regenerating-health gem.

Well after this match kicked the living hell out of me for a while, I got the following outstanding advice from Dan about my Gem usage:

"I'll be honest, you're getting rocked hard! Let me give you some advice!"

"I got my gems from "that place" Yes, "there", They're much better then regular gems!"

"Of course, "that place" is the STORE. You better check it out!"

- Dan "The Salesman" Hibiki

I mean come on man... that's pretty nasty, and the perfect, shining example of not only exactly what NOT to do with DLC, but exactly what SF fans were worried about when Gems were first announced.

SF has now become pay to play. Buying the game isn't enough; Hell, buying the Collectors Edition had already given some players an unfair advantage, and now Capcom (via Dan) makes it CLEAR that they intend to make this issue much worse. You will literally be harder to beat depending on how much money you spend on gems.

What. The. Balls.

#2 Edited by august (3833 posts) -

Dan's gotta eat.

#3 Posted by Bestostero (2758 posts) -

capcom really turned me off with some of there practices... and i do agree that Dan's dlc sales pitch in game is ridiculous and adding insult to injury ...

but people can do the missions without the dlc gems...but i assume they do make them easier for casual players...?

#4 Posted by ImmortalSaiyan (4676 posts) -

That is pretty bad. According to Jeff there is a achievement for entering the DLC store. Capcom really wants you to buy those gems. Terrible use of DLC, guys.

#5 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

So he's pretty much demanding this of the player:

I can see why somebody would hate him (and Capcom) for that.

#6 Edited by Noct (306 posts) -

Couldn't agree more with that. I'm a lifelong Capcom fanatic, and I'm really losing faith recently...

But you do realize that the missions are not the point anyways... My gripe here is towards competitive play. If some people have better gems from the collectors edition (which according to Jeff G., they do), that is bad enough, and the wording of that to me suggests that the "DLC" gems are going to be even more unbalancingly powerful then what is already going on.

It means that if I want to actually remain competitive online, I have to shell out for these better gems. That just sucks, and is really not the direction I want to see the leading fighting game maker to take.

#7 Posted by ImmortalSaiyan (4676 posts) -

@Video_Game_King: Wow, that is how that video sounded? In my memory it was far better produced and that was my favorite quote from the whole series.

#8 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

@ImmortalSaiyan:

There's always this. Not sure why the Neon Genesis Evangeleon theme serves as bookends, but whatever.

#9 Posted by pw2566ch (480 posts) -

@Noct said:

Couldn't agree more with that. I'm a lifelong Capcom fanatic, and I'm really losing faith recently...

But you do realize that the missions are not the point anyways... My gripe here is towards competitive play. If some people have better gems from the collectors edition (which according to Jeff G., they do), that is bad enough, and the wording of that to me suggests that the "DLC" gems are going to be even more unbalancingly powerful then what is already going on.

It means that if I want to actually remain competitive online, I have to shell out for these better gems. That just sucks, and is really not the direction I want to see the leading fighting game maker to take.

What podcast do they discuss this?

#10 Edited by Sooty (8082 posts) -

This somehow has more infinites and glitches than Marvel 3. CANNOT COMPREHEND! The whole gem thing is really shoddy too, you can't even use them in tournaments right now because of how long they take to pick.

No really fuck this game. I'll watch it but won't continue playing it, most the Tekken cast gets stomped into the ground since hardly any of them can anti-air reliably.

Rufus for S tier.

#11 Posted by Rmack (1078 posts) -

@ImmortalSaiyan said:

That is pretty bad. According to Jeff there is a achievement for entering the DLC store. Capcom really wants you to buy those gems. Terrible use of DLC, guys.

I can confirm this. I went to the PSN store yesterday to "unlock" Pac Man and Mega Man and was grossed out by the trophy I got.

I almost don't want to like this game because of all the BS it surrounds itself with, but it's such a well made fighting game that I just kinda grit my teeth and try to ignore all the other aspects of it.

#12 Posted by Goldanas (546 posts) -

Kinda' makes me glad I'm waiting for the Vita version.

#13 Posted by DarthOrange (3858 posts) -

@ImmortalSaiyan:

#14 Posted by James_Giant_Peach (751 posts) -

That's pretty weak. You know, since buying SFxT last week, I have been turned off more and more by it every single day. Might just trade it in to be rid of all these conflicting feelings.

#15 Posted by Bestostero (2758 posts) -

@Noct: didnt even think about that...but youre right... its a definite unfair disadvantage to those who dont get it.

#16 Posted by Noct (306 posts) -

@pw2566ch said:

@Noct said:

Couldn't agree more with that. I'm a lifelong Capcom fanatic, and I'm really losing faith recently...

But you do realize that the missions are not the point anyways... My gripe here is towards competitive play. If some people have better gems from the collectors edition (which according to Jeff G., they do), that is bad enough, and the wording of that to me suggests that the "DLC" gems are going to be even more unbalancingly powerful then what is already going on.

It means that if I want to actually remain competitive online, I have to shell out for these better gems. That just sucks, and is really not the direction I want to see the leading fighting game maker to take.

What podcast do they discuss this?

Hrmm... I think it was last week's episode. It was the same week people weren't expecting Jeff to show up, and then he did. Heh, that cast was great, they read Jeff's notes about what he was going to say if he wasn't there... and Jeff gave commentary. It was the Mass Effect 3 cast if that helps...

@Sooty said:

This somehow has more infinites and glitches than Marvel 3. CANNOT COMPREHEND! The whole gem thing is really shoddy too, you can't even use them in tournaments right now because of how long they take to pick.

No really fuck this game. I'll watch it but won't continue playing it, most the Tekken cast gets stomped into the ground since hardly any of them can anti-air reliably.

Rufus for S tier.

I really wish I could argue, becuase outside of the gem bullshit it really is a sloid game. It's not Street Fighter, but it's a solid fighting game with Ryu in it, which is good by me. But this whole hting is really turning me off to Capcom in general.

#17 Posted by Noct (306 posts) -

@Rmack said:

@ImmortalSaiyan said:

That is pretty bad. According to Jeff there is a achievement for entering the DLC store. Capcom really wants you to buy those gems. Terrible use of DLC, guys.

I can confirm this. I went to the PSN store yesterday to "unlock" Pac Man and Mega Man and was grossed out by the trophy I got.

I almost don't want to like this game because of all the BS it surrounds itself with, but it's such a well made fighting game that I just kinda grit my teeth and try to ignore all the other aspects of it.

Yeah, that is really gross. Then add in the fact that they put Mega and Pac on the disk (you could even see the damn icon), and then forced a time-release DLC to unlock them, and I'm really irritated. Then we hear that the Vita version has 12 extra characters...that are probably on our disks.

Then....this. And now I'm rapidly approaching FU-Capcom level, but my enduring love of SF is holding me in place atm.

It really is a great game, that's the tragedy here. If I hated it, I wouldn't care about it.

Yeah man, I'm witcha. Every day I get closer to trading it in on a Vita and waiting for that version which we all damn well know weill have every bit of this "DLC" included in it from go. Ugh, the whole thing is just greasy.

@Goldanas

Hah, yeah... see above.

#18 Posted by drac96 (668 posts) -

I don't see where people are pulling this "unfair" advantage stuff from. If you're better than than the other person you're still going to win. The gems don't make a huge difference, they're just for play style preference. Well, the boost gems are anyways. The power gem Jeff is always referring to gives a little more power, but it lasts for 5 seconds less than the non-dlc gem. You're going to have to do some pretty crazy stuff to make it matter much.

The assist gems are a different story though. People who know what they're doing who have an auto tech gems, or auto block gems are dangerous. It's way too easy to timer scam with them, because if you block correctly you still keep the meter.

#19 Posted by BrockNRolla (1702 posts) -

This is right up there with "Vette misses you!" from Old Republic. Game advertising has his a new low.

#20 Posted by ShaggE (6401 posts) -

Reminds me of Dragon Age's DLC.

#21 Posted by Noct (306 posts) -

@drac96 said:

I don't see where people are pulling this "unfair" advantage stuff from. If you're better than than the other person you're still going to win. The gems don't make a huge difference, they're just for play style preference. Well, the boost gems are anyways. The power gem Jeff is always referring to gives a little more power, but it lasts for 5 seconds less than the non-dlc gem. You're going to have to do some pretty crazy stuff to make it matter much.

The assist gems are a different story though. People who know what they're doing who have an auto tech gems, or auto block gems are dangerous. It's way too easy to timer scam with them, because if you block correctly you still keep the meter.

That seems like a rather narrow view to take... Yeah, I would agree in cases where I'm fighting a noob that I'll win regardless, but if I'm playing someone who is actually at my skill level, then it seems pretty insane to not see how this could effect the outcome of the match man... The majority of my higher-ranked fights are typically very, very close; which stands to reason really...

They may have initially sold this system as newb-help, but it's become something much bigger. Hell, when the AI is telling you that you need to edit your gem selection to win final-tier challenges... something says to me that they weren't planning on it only being a way to give new players a fair shake.

I've never used an assist gem, but power and health gems both seem to make a pretty signifigant difference in the outcome of the match. A hell of a lot more then Pandora does from what I've seen...

As for the gem Jeff was discussing; I didn't know it had a shorter life-span. That's interesting, although it still sounds mad unbalanced to me. Say we both trigger this gem at the same time, you with the CE version, and me with the vanilla. Yours adds 20% to your strength, mine only 10. Even if mine lasts a few seconds longer then yours, I'd still pick yours. I'd rather trigger the gem and have the 5 seconds of uber-power then the lesser version of 10. I'm sure play style would come into play here too though... I'm super-offensive and aggresive, so a short-term high-power gem is going to benefit me a lot more then a turtler.

Regardless of that though, now look at it from a DLC view. That script above suggests to me that the Store's gems are going to be even stronger then the CE/standard ones. Which would stand to reason... why would you shell out more money for weaker or meaningless gems?... (You wouldn't, so expect thos egems to be powerful)

So, that's the point here really. On top of it just being ugly and offputting to sell DLC this way, things could go downhill really, really fast with this mentality.

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