The most fun I've ever had playing a video game

#1 Edited by Melvargh (496 posts) -

Going to be honest, going into SMG2 I had my doubts. How could Nintendo top the first game? Are they really going back to the well again? It can't possibly be as good as the first...

I can safely say that Super Mario Galaxy 2 is the most fun I've ever had playing a video game. Period.
Every single second of this game had me in a state of amazement. I've never seen such creativity and such confidence in showing you new ideas, Nintendo is on point 100% of the time in SMG2.  
And the music! One of, if not the best, soundtracks I've heard in a game. 

If I could sum up exactly how it makes me feel, it would be this:
 
Super Mario Galaxy 2 makes me feel like a kid again.
 
I can think of no higher recommendation than that.
 
(I can also safely state that none of this is hyperbole)(Seriously)

#2 Posted by Feanor (1387 posts) -

The game really didn't blow my mind. I mean its just more Mario. Thats fine, but spinning the screen around while I play didn't do much for me. 

#3 Posted by ryanwho (12082 posts) -

Yeah its pretty great, especially compared to all these nanny games that are abut half automated. Make your hamfisted socio political religious allegory movie on your own time, I wanna play something.

#4 Posted by Willy105 (4690 posts) -
@Feanor said:
" The game really didn't blow my mind. I mean its just more Mario. Thats fine, but spinning the screen around while I play didn't do much for me.  "
That sounds like a great hindrance for you. If seeing Mario on the screen keeps you from enjoying the game....
#5 Posted by Feanor (1387 posts) -
@Willy105: Read the next two words. I say its fine.
#6 Posted by HandsomeDead (11863 posts) -

I guess I completely missed that creativity and all those new ideas.

#7 Posted by Icemael (6321 posts) -
@HandsomeDead said:
" I guess I completely missed that creativity and all those new ideas. "
I suppose you also missed the giant gorilla in King Kong, the text in the original Dracula, and the sky outdoors.
#8 Posted by Yummylee (21672 posts) -

I envision great things for this thread.

#9 Posted by HandsomeDead (11863 posts) -
@Icemael said:
" @HandsomeDead said:
" I guess I completely missed that creativity and all those new ideas. "
I suppose you also missed the giant gorilla in King Kong, the text in the original Dracula, and the sky outdoors. "
I suppose you're going to talk around the point rather than giving me a straight answer.
#10 Posted by inkeiren (989 posts) -
@HandsomeDead said:
" I guess I completely missed that creativity and all those new ideas. "
How far in are you?
#11 Posted by HandsomeDead (11863 posts) -
@inkeiren said:
" @HandsomeDead said:
" I guess I completely missed that creativity and all those new ideas. "
How far in are you? "
Finished.
#12 Posted by Icemael (6321 posts) -
@HandsomeDead said:
" @Icemael said:
" @HandsomeDead said:
" I guess I completely missed that creativity and all those new ideas. "
I suppose you also missed the giant gorilla in King Kong, the text in the original Dracula, and the sky outdoors. "
I suppose you're going to talk around the point rather than giving me a straight answer. "
Answer? You haven't even asked a fucking question. But very well, I will spare you the trouble, and show you some creativity: Here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and... well, you say you've played the game, so just go play it again if you want more. With your eyes open, this time.
#13 Posted by HandsomeDead (11863 posts) -
@Icemael said:
" @HandsomeDead said:
" @Icemael said:
" @HandsomeDead said:
" I guess I completely missed that creativity and all those new ideas. "
I suppose you also missed the giant gorilla in King Kong, the text in the original Dracula, and the sky outdoors. "
I suppose you're going to talk around the point rather than giving me a straight answer. "
Answer? You haven't even asked a fucking question. But very well, I will spare you the trouble, and show you some creativity: Here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and... well, you say you've played the game, so just go play it again if you want more. With your eyes open, this time. "
Bringing up a point and asking a question are two very different things, much like our ideas behind what creativity is. You seem to think it's having sections of the game that revert to 2D collect 'em up platforming in a way I haven't seen since the PSone and A to B sections that revolve around a certain kind of simple gimmick. There is nothing in Super Mario Galaxy 2 that's anywhere near as creative or interesting as Hazy Maze Cave or Wet Dry World.
#14 Posted by TooWalrus (13205 posts) -

HansomeDead is right if he's suggesting that Super Mario 64 is a better game. It absolutely is. Super Mario Galaxy 2 was still pretty fun though, at least to me. I mean, it's no Super Mario Sunshine or anything... now THAT game rocked.

#15 Edited by Icemael (6321 posts) -
@HandsomeDead said:

" @Icemael said:

" @HandsomeDead said:
" @Icemael said:
" @HandsomeDead said:
" I guess I completely missed that creativity and all those new ideas. "
I suppose you also missed the giant gorilla in King Kong, the text in the original Dracula, and the sky outdoors."
I suppose you're going to talk around the point rather than giving me a straight answer. "
Answer? You haven't even asked a fucking question. But very well, I will spare you the trouble, and show you some creativity: Here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and... well, you say you've played the game, so just go play it again if you want more. With your eyes open, this time. "
Bringing up a point and asking a question are two very different things, much like our ideas behind what creativity is. You seem to think it's having sections of the game that revert to 2D collect 'em up platforming in a way I haven't seen since the PSone and A to B sections that revolve around a certain kind of simple gimmick. There is nothing in Super Mario Galaxy 2 that's anywhere near as creative or interesting as Hazy Maze Cave or Wet Dry World. "
I've never said that 2D collectathon platforming is creative. You're obviously focusing on the wrong parts of the videos. And as Edge said: "It’s often a criticism to say that something is built from gimmicks, but the problem only actually arises the moment those gimmicks run out. In Galaxy 2’s case, they never do."
 
And Super Mario 64? Really? That game was obviously more innovative and since it was, you know, pretty much the first proper 3D game, and as such, could make use of ideas that simply hadn't been possible before. Even some of the most innovative of the innovative are less innovative than that. However, if we compare the games side by side, as if Mario 64 had been released today -- or, indeed, as if Mario Galaxy 2 had been released back then -- Galaxy 2 makes 64's ideas seem boring and uninspired.
#16 Posted by HandsomeDead (11863 posts) -
@Icemael said:
" @HandsomeDead said:

" @Icemael said:

" @HandsomeDead said:
" @Icemael said:
" @HandsomeDead said:
" I guess I completely missed that creativity and all those new ideas. "
I suppose you also missed the giant gorilla in King Kong, the text in the original Dracula, and the sky outdoors."
I suppose you're going to talk around the point rather than giving me a straight answer. "
Answer? You haven't even asked a fucking question. But very well, I will spare you the trouble, and show you some creativity: Here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and... well, you say you've played the game, so just go play it again if you want more. With your eyes open, this time. "
Bringing up a point and asking a question are two very different things, much like our ideas behind what creativity is. You seem to think it's having sections of the game that revert to 2D collect 'em up platforming in a way I haven't seen since the PSone and A to B sections that revolve around a certain kind of simple gimmick. There is nothing in Super Mario Galaxy 2 that's anywhere near as creative or interesting as Hazy Maze Cave or Wet Dry World. "
I've never said that 2D collectathon platforming is creative. You're obviously focusing on the wrong parts of the videos. And as Edge said: "It’s often a criticism to say that something is built from gimmicks, but the problem only actually arises the moment those gimmicks run out. In Galaxy 2’s case, they never do."
 
And Super Mario 64? Really? That game was obviously more innovative and since it was, you know, pretty much the first proper 3D game, and as such, could make use of ideas that simply hadn't been possible before. Even some of the most innovative of the innovative are less innovative than that. However, if we compare the games side by side, as if Mario 64 had been released today -- or, indeed, as if Mario Galaxy 2 had been released back then -- Galaxy 2 makes 64's ideas seem boring and uninspired. "
So what's creative about it? Where is the right part of the video? All I'm seeing is derivative gameplay wrapped round the Mario universe and I'm expecting your response to this to be you talking in circles again. 
 
Taking Mario 64's large (for the time) and distinctive worlds which you were given to explore at your own free will compared to Mario Galaxy's short, linear, disjointed and relatively flat worlds which all exist around the same planetoid theme, it seems obvious that the former is the most interesting unless you're too swept away by the gravity bending parts of the game which are so far beyond simple that it almost makes them a pointless addition.
#17 Posted by Willy105 (4690 posts) -
@HandsomeDead said:
So what's creative about it? Where is the right part of the video? All I'm seeing is derivative gameplay wrapped round the Mario universe and I'm expecting your response to this to be you talking in circles again.  Taking Mario 64's large (for the time) and distinctive worlds which you were given to explore at your own free will compared to Mario Galaxy's short, linear, disjointed and relatively flat worlds which all exist around the same planetoid theme, it seems obvious that the former is the most interesting unless you're too swept away by the gravity bending parts of the game which are so far beyond simple that it almost makes them a pointless addition. "
Not this again.
 
Hey. Did you know that those short, linear, disjointed worlds are why this game has such a critical reception and why it's so much fun? It's because there is no dead time, and it's always action packed, bring you more and more and more.
 
You are looking at the wrong things. It's like saying a shooting game is bad because you always use the same ammo.
#18 Posted by Icemael (6321 posts) -
@HandsomeDead: Derivative? Show me another game that does what's shown in the entire first video, or what's shown from 2:25 in the second video, or what's shown from 3:35 onward in the third, or at 2:17 and 2:30 in the fourth, or at 2:04 and 4:03 in the fifth, or at 2:48, 3:55 and 5:00 in the sixth. 
 
And so what if Mario 64's levels are large? Does that somehow make them more creative? And Galaxy's levels are pretty damn distinctive -- it's just that instead of collecting all levels with a certain theme and putting them into a singular, huge area, it's got batches of lava levels, and batches of snow levels, and batches of water levels. Saying they all exist around the same planetoid theme is like saying 64's levels all exist around the same flat ground theme.
 
Just face it: Had Mario Galaxy 2 been released back when 64 was (with time-appropriate aesthetics), nobody (and that includes you) would have said that 64 had more interesting ideas. You know why? Because it doesn't.
#19 Posted by Metroid545 (1823 posts) -

Don't know about you guys arguing but Super Mario Galaxy 2 Blew me away and thats my opinion sorry you guys didn't feel the same way

#20 Posted by TaliciaDragonsong (8699 posts) -
@Melvargh said:
 
Super Mario Galaxy 2 makes me feel like a kid again.
 
That comment made me smile, that's the magic we need in videogames!
#21 Posted by HandsomeDead (11863 posts) -
@Willy105: Tell me the right thing to look at. This is all I want out of this. The entire game feels like a step back from the style of gameplay in Mario 64 and Super Mario Galaxy. It's a 5/5, 100%, bona fide fun distraction for 10-15 minutes and I can't see how you can claim it's anything more advanced. 
 
@Icemael: Show me a game that isn't Gears of War that lets you have a gun that acts as a chainsaw. Show me a game that lets you grapple onto everything in the environment that isn't Just Cause 2. You can't just point to a section of a game and say that makes it super creative especially when it's that puzzle block galaxy where it's a 3D version of those old Mario and Sonic levels where the screen kept pushing you forward. I'm not going to go through every one of your super specific YouTube calls but if that is one of the game's crowning moments of ingenuity, then you've got to try better than that. 
 
Well, yeah. It gave the levels a lot more room to develop character, be something special and break away from 16 bit linearity. Shifting Sand Land started off with Mario having to traverse the desert, a steel maze, that fucking hat stealing bird and then a climb up the side of the pyramid all before getting into the pyramid itself which is essentially a whole new level of its own with a kind of Indiana Jones tomb type feel to it. All that can be explored however you want and contains 7 stars for you to get in whatever order you want. 
 
Mario Galaxy 2 has a level with a similar theme, only it's directed from the start in a straight line. This basically continues until you're on a straight slide where you're avoiding the blocks rolling at you by moving left or right with no other control before reaching the generic hit-3-times boss battle as seen elsewhere in the game only this time you're shaking the nunchuk to use the fireflower rather than just hitting it with a spin attack. Then, when you return to the level for the next shine, you're taken on a different guided route, this time to that sand bird going left and right. 
 
Which of those two worlds sounds like a more fun experience? The one where you're exploring on the one where you're following a pipe for half the stage? Also, the idea that repeating a theme and having more than one lava level somehow makes the game more creative seems bizarre. Splitting the one theme into three separate single path courses doesn't somehow make it any better. Especially when one of them is the Melty Monster Galaxy.
#22 Posted by EVO (3913 posts) -

I'm only 25 stars in but I think Ryan put it best:
 
"It doesn't have quite the same new Mario smell as the original Galaxy".

#23 Posted by WinterSnowblind (7617 posts) -

I'm actually surprised to see how widely praised Galaxy 2 seems to be.  
I did enjoy it a lot, but I consider it to be highly inferior to the original Galaxy.
 
I definitely prefered the bigger levels thata Galaxy 1 and 64 had, it was fun to explore them looking for more secrets.  Each level in Galaxy 2 was rather linear, practically 2D at times and the Stars were almost always in plain sight.  At first I thought they did this to give a bigger variety in levels, but that's not the case at all, and there's definitely an over abundance of the firey stages.  Remember exploring the big beaches in Galaxy 1?  :(
 
I also have an issue with the difficulty, Galaxy 1 had a perfect difficulty curves and is one of the most fun games I've ever played through and had some rather challenging levels to keep you motivated.  Galaxy 2 felt very simple all the way through, up until you get to the special galaxies, which then feels like the game is trying it's hardest to kill you by whatever means possible, it completely lacks the same charm the original had.

#24 Posted by Icemael (6321 posts) -
@HandsomeDead said:
"@Icemael: Show me a game that isn't Gears of War that lets you have a gun that acts as a chainsaw. Show me a game that lets you grapple onto everything in the environment that isn't Just Cause 2. You can't just point to a section of a game and say that makes it super creative especially when it's that puzzle block galaxy where it's a 3D version of those old Mario and Sonic levels where the screen kept pushing you forward. I'm not going to go through every one of your super specific YouTube calls but if that is one of the game's crowning moments of ingenuity, then you've got to try better than that."
That's the thing: Mario Galaxy 2 doesn't have a crowning moment of ingenuity. It doesn't have a singular, super innovative, super creative concept that alone supports the entire experience. It has dozens upon dozens of creative, clever little segments that together make the whole game a crowning moment of ingenuity. Your comparison to Gears of War and Just Cause 2 just don't work, because if those games had countless things like the chainsaw gun or the universal grapple, they would be hella creative, too.
 
@HandsomeDead said:
"Well, yeah. It gave the levels a lot more room to develop character, be something special and break away from 16 bit linearity. Shifting Sand Land started off with Mario having to traverse the desert, a steel maze, that fucking hat stealing bird and then a climb up the side of the pyramid all before getting into the pyramid itself which is essentially a whole new level of its own with a kind of Indiana Jones tomb type feel to it. All that can be explored however you want and contains 7 stars for you to get in whatever order you want.  Mario Galaxy 2 has a level with a similar theme, only it's directed from the start in a straight line. This basically continues until you're on a straight slide where you're avoiding the blocks rolling at you by moving left or right with no other control before reaching the generic hit-3-times boss battle as seen elsewhere in the game only this time you're shaking the nunchuk to use the fireflower rather than just hitting it with a spin attack. Then, when you return to the level for the next shine, you're taken on a different guided route, this time to that sand bird going left and right.  Which of those two worlds sounds like a more fun experience? The one where you're exploring on the one where you're following a pipe for half the stage?"
Both are fun experiences in their own way, just as both Dead Space -- which was incredibly focused -- and Fallout 3 -- which was incredibly open -- are fun experiences in their own way. Neither is necessarily better; they're just different
 
@HandsomeDead said:
"Also, the idea that repeating a theme and having more than one lava level somehow makes the game more creative seems bizarre. Splitting the one theme into three separate single path courses doesn't somehow make it any better. Especially when one of them is the Melty Monster Galaxy. "
I never said splitting one theme into several levels makes it more creative -- I said not splitting one theme into several levels doesn't make it more creative.
#25 Posted by wolf_blitzer85 (5256 posts) -

Oooh all this bickering is exciting!
 
I haven't had the pleasure of playing the game, but it looks like a lot of fun.
 
Glad you enjoyed it dude!

#26 Posted by Claude (16254 posts) -

I haven't bought Super Mario Galaxy 2 as of yet. I bought Tiger Woods PGA Tour 11 for the Wii instead. TW doesn't make me feel like a kid again, but it does make me feel like a Pro Golfer.

#27 Posted by zombie2011 (4973 posts) -

Super Mario Galaxy is one of the 3 Wii games i own and i haven't beaten it. I'm gonna pick it back up after i beat Darksiders, It's been about 3 years since i last touched it so i'll probably just start a new game, if i like it i'll buy the second. 

#28 Posted by HandsomeDead (11863 posts) -
@Icemael said:
"That's the thing: Mario Galaxy 2 doesn't have a crowning moment of ingenuity. It doesn't have a singular, super innovative, super creative concept that alone supports the entire experience. It has dozens upon dozens of creative, clever little segments that together make the whole game a crowning moment of ingenuity. Your comparison to Gears of War and Just Cause 2 just don't work, because if those games had countless things like the chainsaw gun or the universal grapple, they would be hella creative, too."
Precisely. It has no crowning moment because it has so many gimmicks laid on top of each other that nothing can stand out. Pilling different super powers into the game to make up for lackluster level design is the cheapest way to generate a throwaway experience. Just look at the amount of stuff that was in GTA: San Andreas, by far the weakest of the Grand Theft Auto franchise or Saints Row 2. Just because there's a lot of things to do, it doesn't make it creative, it makes it unfocused and forgettable. Real creativity would fit it in seamlessly. 
 
@Icemael said:
"Both are fun experiences in their own way, just as both Dead Space -- which was incredibly focused -- and Fallout 3 -- which was incredibly open -- are fun experiences in their own way. Neither is necessarily better; they're just different."
That's two different games in two different genres. Granted, Nintendo may do their best to make sure there's no actual characters in the Mario universe but it's undeniable that these are all games in the one series and for them to return to this level of linearity, especially after Super Mario Bros Wii, just continue to make me think Nintendo is the laziest developer around. It seems a lot like the FFXIII scenario of the developers scaling back to the stuff they're unsure about and going back to the ultimate basics in core gameplay, something I've already played to death over a decade ago. 
 
@Icemael said:
"I never said splitting one theme into several levels makes it more creative -- I said not splitting one theme into several levels doesn't make it more creative. "
Well, it definitely feels more repetitive. I remember Lethal Lava Land, the lava based stages here have already blended into one in my mind and I finished the game 72 hours ago.
#29 Edited by Icemael (6321 posts) -
@HandsomeDead said:

" @Icemael said:

"That's the thing: Mario Galaxy 2 doesn't have a crowning moment of ingenuity. It doesn't have a singular, super innovative, super creative concept that alone supports the entire experience. It has dozens upon dozens of creative, clever little segments that together make the whole game a crowning moment of ingenuity. Your comparison to Gears of War and Just Cause 2 just don't work, because if those games had countless things like the chainsaw gun or the universal grapple, they would be hella creative, too."
Precisely. It has no crowning moment because it has so many gimmicks laid on top of each other that nothing can stand out. Pilling different super powers into the game to make up for lackluster level design is the cheapest way to generate a throwaway experience. Just look at the amount of stuff that was in GTA: San Andreas, by far the weakest of the Grand Theft Auto franchise or Saints Row 2. Just because there's a lot of things to do, it doesn't make it creative, it makes it unfocused and forgettable. Real creativity would fit it in seamlessly. "
There is so much wrong with this, I don't even know where to begin. No singular gimmick has to stand out, because everything stands out. "Too much stuff" only becomes a problem when: 
  1. None of the individual things are interesting.
  2. None of the individual things are polished.
Every single gimmick in Mario Galaxy 2 is interesting enough that they could've built a several hours long game around it (but they didn't, because they're above that; what any other developer would've done is ended the brainstorming session after coming up with one concept, and then repeated that ad nauseam (see pretty much every indie game in the history of ever, and most big-budget blockbusters, too)), and every single one of them is polished to near perfection. "Lots of things to do" does indeed not equal creativity, but the thing with Super Mario Galaxy 2 is that there are lots of things to do, and all of them are creative.
 
And make up for lackluster level design? Are you fucking kidding me? Do you know why Mario Galaxy 2 got the reception it got? Because of the level design. The segments containing power-ups are designed around those powers. The only tacked-on power I've ever seen in a Mario game is that flying suit in the first Galaxy, which could only be found in two places, and was basically just there to fuck around with. "Real creativity", lol. Do you even know what creativity means?
 
@HandsomeDead said:

"@Icemael said:

"Both are fun experiences in their own way, just as both Dead Space -- which was incredibly focused -- and Fallout 3 -- which was incredibly open -- are fun experiences in their own way. Neither is necessarily better; they're just different."
That's two different games in two different genres. Granted, Nintendo may do their best to make sure there's no actual characters in the Mario universe but it's undeniable that these are all games in the one series and for them to return to this level of linearity, especially after Super Mario Bros Wii, just continue to make me think Nintendo is the laziest developer around. It seems a lot like the FFXIII scenario of the developers scaling back to the stuff they're unsure about and going back to the ultimate basics in core gameplay, something I've already played to death over a decade ago. "
Yeah, they're the laziest developer around. That's why their games are often some of the most innovative -- and always some of the most polished -- around. And of course, keeping it basic is a bad thing. Let's not have simplicity! No, let's clutter out games with open worlds for the sake of open worlds and multiplayer for the sake of multiplayer! That makes them so much better!

@HandsomeDead said:

"@Icemael said:

"I never said splitting one theme into several levels makes it more creative -- I said not splitting one theme into several levels doesn't make it more creative. "
Well, it definitely feels more repetitive. I remember Lethal Lava Land, the lava based stages here have already blended into one in my mind and I finished the game 72 hours ago."
There's a plethora of stages in the game. Of course they're not all going to be distinctly memorable. Expecting them to be is just retarded -- what you're doing is akin to watching every Simpsons episode between, say, 1990 and 2000, and then calling the show "throwaway", "unfocused" and "forgettable" when you don't vividly remember every episode. Mario Galaxy 2 is not meant to be a "movie" experience, where every scene is deeply tied to the others, and missing even one would severely hamper your appreciation of the work; it's meant to be a "slice-of-life show" experience.
#30 Edited by Willy105 (4690 posts) -
@HandsomeDead said:

" @Willy105: Tell me the right thing to look at. This is all I want out of this. The entire game feels like a step back from the style of gameplay in Mario 64 and Super Mario Galaxy. It's a 5/5, 100%, bona fide fun distraction for 10-15 minutes and I can't see how you can claim it's anything more advanced. 
  "


Alright. I will tell you that you are looking at it too superficially.
 
It's not about what the elements are composed of, it's about the experience you get from those elements. It's like a cake. They have a specific number of elements composing the thing, but it's how they are used that make the cake very delicious, or flat.
 
Although there are levels in SMG2 that has elements of previous Mario games, it's how they are placed within the environment and how they are executed. Everytime you play, the momentum takes over, and playing through the levels feel like you are choreographing a fantastic action scene.
 
You are just complaining that the new formula is composed from part of this formula and part of that formula, but paying no attention to what that new formula does. Try re-playing the game, not with a pre-conceived notion that this was made like this and made like that, but actually savor the experience, and you maybe should be able to see why the game is the highest rated game of the generation.
 
@WinterSnowblind said:
"   Remember exploring the big beaches in Galaxy 1?  :(  "

The one in Mario Galaxy 2 is bigger.
#31 Posted by AhmadMetallic (18955 posts) -
@TaliciaDragonsong said:
" @Melvargh said:
 
Super Mario Galaxy 2 makes me feel like a kid again.
 That comment made me smile, that's the magic we need in videogames! "
and now i want to buy a wii 
 
fuck you guys
#32 Posted by HandsomeDead (11863 posts) -
@Icemael said:
"There is so much wrong with this, I don't even know where to begin. No singular gimmick has to stand out, because everything stands out. "Too much stuff" only becomes a problem when: 
  1. None of the individual things are interesting.
  2. None of the individual things are polished.
Every single gimmick in Mario Galaxy 2 is interesting enough that they could've built a several hours long game around it (but they didn't, because they're above that; what any other developer would've done is ended the brainstorming session after coming up with one concept, and then repeated that ad nauseam (see pretty much every indie game in the history of ever, and most big-budget blockbusters, too)), and every single one of them is polished to near perfection. "Lots of things to do" does indeed not equal creativity, but the thing with Super Mario Galaxy 2 is that there are lots of things to do, and all of them are creative.
 
And make up for lackluster level design? Are you fucking kidding me? Do you know why Mario Galaxy 2 got the reception it got? Because of the level design. The segments containing power-ups are designed around those powers. The only tacked-on power I've ever seen in a Mario game is that flying suit in the first Galaxy, which could only be found in two places, and was basically just there to fuck around with. "Real creativity", lol. Do you even know what creativity means?"
You honestly think they could have got a full game out of the Boulder Suit or the Cloud Suit? That stuff is so superficial. When they're brought into play, the levels may be built around them, but it's so painfully easy that they feel like filler. Each section feels like a mini game forced into an already tiny world. When you're given the boulder suit and then you do a Super Monkey Ball knock off level that's completed in 4 minutes, I may as well be playing Wario Ware. 
 
Also, you really don't think the game has features that are repeated ad nauseum? Besides the default reach the end of the level star on most of the levels, the follow ups are usually the Chimp that gives you the score challenge, the collect 5 silver stars or even worse, the Comets which produce one of maybe two or three options across every level. After you've done it once, you've done it a million times. The worst part of the game is easily the wind up to the final Bowser battle where you have to go back and get stuck into some of those challenges, making the game even more repetitive. Similarly, those Bowser boss battles where you do the exact same thing every time is hardly striking creativity: It's the exact same formula as Mario 64. Not to mention that after the first one, he shrinks and then comes back later as huge as before, the same as before, only now with shockwaves. 
 
@Icemael said:
"Yeah, they're the laziest developer around. That's why their games are often some of the most innovative -- and always some of the most polished -- around. And of course, keeping it basic is a bad thing. Let's not have simplicity! No, let's clutter out games with open worlds for the sake of open worlds and multiplayer for the sake of multiplayer! That makes them so much better!"
Nintendo haven't innovated anything, gameplay wise, since the N64. That is, unless you believe that replacing a button press with a waggle is actual progression. There's also a big difference between current gen simplicity and returning to SNES era simplicity. By the way, when you say multiplayer for the sake of multiplayer, is the worthless Luma co-op a sign of Nintendo's world beating creativity? 
 
@Icemael said:
"There's a plethora of stages in the game. Of course they're not all going to be distinctly memorable. Expecting them to be is just retarded -- what you're doing is akin to watching every Simpsons episode between, say, 1990 and 2000, and then calling the show "throwaway", "unfocused" and "forgettable" when you don't vividly remember every episode. Mario Galaxy 2 is not meant to be a "movie" experience, where every scene is deeply tied to the others, and missing even one would severely hamper your appreciation of the work; it's meant to be a "slice-of-life show" experience. "
So you're admitting it's quantity over quality? I remember most of the stages from games I played on other systems, I remember tiny, magic moments from some games and yet I couldn't really point out anything as special here besides maybe the Broken Gear Galaxy which took 2:30 flat to beat or the Throwback Galaxy and that Delfino world for completely unearned nostalgia. I'd be able to believe your 'slice of life' if any of the levels carried any kind of substance that they could stand alone on their merits. Each episode of The Simpsons takes all kinds of talent to put together and make a 26 minute topical comedy, you can't compare that to a 5 minute stage that you doesn't have enough personality to be remembered once you've blazed through it.
#33 Posted by Yummylee (21672 posts) -

Is gettin' hawt n heya"

#34 Edited by Icemael (6321 posts) -
@HandsomeDead said:

"You honestly think they could have got a full game out of the Boulder Suit or the Cloud Suit? That stuff is so superficial. When they're brought into play, the levels may be built around them, but it's so painfully easy that they feel like filler. Each section feels like a mini game forced into an already tiny world. When you're given the boulder suit and then you do a Super Monkey Ball knock off level that's completed in 4 minutes, I may as well be playing Wario Ware. "

Yes, they could. And were they another company, they probably would. And so what if they feel like mini-games? There's nothing wrong with mini-games, as long as they aren't poorly designed -- and the ones in Galaxy 2 certainly aren't. Were they actually mini-games, they would be the absolute cream of the crop in the category.
 
@HandsomeDead said:

"Also, you really don't think the game has features that are repeated ad nauseum? Besides the default reach the end of the level star on most of the levels, the follow ups are usually the Chimp that gives you the score challenge, the collect 5 silver stars or even worse, the Comets which produce one of maybe two or three options across every level. After you've done it once, you've done it a million times. The worst part of the game is easily the wind up to the final Bowser battle where you have to go back and get stuck into some of those challenges, making the game even more repetitive. Similarly, those Bowser boss battles where you do the exact same thing every time is hardly striking creativity: It's the exact same formula as Mario 64. Not to mention that after the first one, he shrinks and then comes back later as huge as before, the same as before, only now with shockwaves."

Compare that to something like Alan Wake, which is basically the same walking-through-dark-forest segment and minute-long battle against three or four dudes repeated for 12 hours (I love Alan Wake, by the way) -- that's basically how most other games are constructed. Mario Galaxy 2 is possibly the least repetitive game of the generation.
 
@HandsomeDead said:

"Nintendo haven't innovated anything, gameplay wise, since the N64. That is, unless you believe that replacing a button press with a waggle is actual progression. There's also a big difference between current gen simplicity and returning to SNES era simplicity. By the way, when you say multiplayer for the sake of multiplayer, is the worthless Luma co-op a sign of Nintendo's world beating creativity?"

Since the days of the N64, they've innovated more than anyone else (perhaps even more than everyone else combined). You just discredit those innovations because they don't necessarily appeal to you. And the Luma co-op is: 1) Probably pretty fun for kids and casuals, which is more than you can say for the multiplayer in, say, The Darkness or any of the other games with shitty, unnecessary multiplayer. 2) Simple as fuck, so unlike 99% of other games' multiplayer modes, it barely took any resources to develop and therefore didn't negatively impact the rest of the game's quality.
 
@HandsomeDead said:

"So you're admitting it's quantity over quality? I remember most of the stages from games I played on other systems, I remember tiny, magic moments from some games and yet I couldn't really point out anything as special here besides maybe the Broken Gear Galaxy which took 2:30 flat to beat or the Throwback Galaxy and that Delfino world for completely unearned nostalgia. I'd be able to believe your 'slice of life' if any of the levels carried any kind of substance that they could stand alone on their merits. Each episode of The Simpsons takes all kinds of talent to put together and make a 26 minute topical comedy, you can't compare that to a 5 minute stage that you doesn't have enough personality to be remembered once you've blazed through it. "

No, it's not quality over quantity. You can't compare a great movie to a great slice-of-life show and say that one is quality over quantity and the other is the opposite, because just as a slice-of-life show consisting of dozens of episodes would be terrible if it was compressed into two hours, a two-hour movie would be terrible if it was stretched out over dozens of episodes; the slice-of-life show is, at its very core, designed to work specifically as a series of short episodes, whereas the movie is, at its very core, designed to work as a one or two hours long piece. And the Simpsons episodes' length is completely irrelevant, but if it really bothers you that much, let's go with Tom & Jerry cartoons instead (I haven't seen one in years, but I'm pretty sure the episodes were about ten minutes each).

And I don't know about you, but the reason I, with a couple of exceptions (which, honestly, kind of ruins the entire argument), don't distinctly remember any specific tiny, magic special moments from Mario Galaxy 2, is that there were so many tiny, magic, special moments. It's like someone took the most memorable parts of countless platformers, and then made a game out of those.
#35 Posted by ThomasP (1656 posts) -

Please quit trying to change someones opinion no matter how stupid it may seem. It's a waste of time.

#36 Posted by HandsomeDead (11863 posts) -
*Ding Ding* Round 2
 
@Icemael
said:
"Yes, they could. And were they another company, they probably would. And so what if they feel like mini-games? There's nothing wrong with mini-games, as long as they aren't poorly designed -- and the ones in Galaxy 2 certainly aren't. Were they actually mini-games, they would be the absolute cream of the crop in the category."
Considering how Nintendo have span off every character into Mario Kart, Tennis, Party etc, not to mention the Wii Fit, Music toys and so on, don't act as if Nintendo are above money spinning. There's plenty wrong with getting mini-games when you pay full price for a game, expecting a solid platformer. 
 
@Icemael said:
"Compare that to something like Alan Wake, which is basically the same walking-through-dark-forest segment and minute-long battle against three or four dudes repeated for 12 hours (I love Alan Wake, by the way) -- that's basically how most other games are constructed. Mario Galaxy 2 is possibly the least repetitive game of the generation."
Alan Wake is incredibly story and character driven, while the gameplay may revolve around the same concept, there's so much atmosphere and interest in seeing how the story plays out that you're always driven to get through it to the next set pieces. There's nothing like that in Mario because there's no character, no narrative. i'm not asking for Super Mario Brothers as writen by Paul Thomas Anderson but if I need to get 80+ of a trinket by going through 3 minute levels with a variety of gimmicks on top, unless you have a matching attention span, it becomes a grind. 
 
@Icemael said:
"Since the days of the N64, they've innovated more than anyone else (perhaps even more than everyone else combined). You just discredit those innovations because they don't necessarily appeal to you. And the Luma co-op is: 1) Probably pretty fun for kids and casuals, which is more than you can say for the multiplayer in, say, The Darkness or any of the other games with shitty, unnecessary multiplayer. 2) Simple as fuck, so unlike 99% of other games' multiplayer modes, it barely took any resources to develop and therefore didn't negatively impact the rest of the game's quality."
Tell me what those innovations are. Please, tell me and be as descriptive as possible because so far, you've only ever pointed me at something and acted aloof. If these gameplay innovations are so obvious, fill me in. And for the Luma co-op, how young is the kid we're talking about here? I played and finished Mario 64 when I was 9 and before that, played on my cousin's Mega Drive and SNES. I didn't need someone else to be controlling the game while I added nothing to the game for me to enjoy it so all that mode says to me is its Nintendo's insulting catch-all hand holding business model. Also, there's no such thing as casuals, or hardcore: You're just believing in market segmentation. 
 
@Icemael said:
"No, it's not quality over quantity. You can't compare a great movie to a great slice-of-life show and say that one is quality over quantity and the other is the opposite, because just as a slice-of-life show consisting of dozens of episodes would be terrible if it was compressed into two hours, a two-hour movie would be terrible if it was stretched out over dozens of episodes; the slice-of-life show is, at its very core, designed to work specifically as a series of short episodes, whereas the movie is, at its very core, designed to work as a one or two hours long piece. And the Simpsons episodes' length is completely irrelevant, but if it really bothers you that much, let's go with Tom & Jerry cartoons instead (I haven't seen one in years, but I'm pretty sure the episodes were about ten minutes each).

And I don't know about you, but the reason I, with a couple of exceptions (which, honestly, kind of ruins the entire argument), don't distinctly remember any specific tiny, magic special moments from Mario Galaxy 2, is that there were so many tiny, magic, special moments. It's like someone took the most memorable parts of countless platformers, and then made a game out of those. "  
Again, you've just talking in circles. You're comparing a potential theory against a potential theory and, admittedly, I shouldn't have indulged you with The Simpsons comparisons. This isn't a movie, or a TV show, it's a game and without any of these examples of moments you remember or signs of creativity coming directly from you, I'm really not buying your side of this. 
 
What I am getting from this back-and-forth is that Mario Galaxy 2 is a game that relies so heavily on nostalgia, you're saying this yourself by saying it's taking moments from other games and putting them all together, that either you completely buy it or you don't. When I go back and play Banjo-Kazooie on XBLA, I still enjoy it but I got into it again because I remember so much of it from when I was younger but that game was bought because I had nothing else to play, acted as a cute little distraction till the end of the Summer drought and hasn't been touched upon again: I have grown up, Mario hasn't and, to me, if this isn't your first Mario game and if you don't get moist off Nintendo regurgitating your childhood, then Mario Galaxy 2 is worthless.
#37 Posted by quinistheman (150 posts) -
@ThomasP: 
You made more sense in  two sentences than any of this bickering nonsense.

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