Guile's recovery is bananas

#1 Edited by YetiAntics (1489 posts) -

I can't punish anyone throwing sonic booms because Guile recovers and blocks before he can even finish the word "Boom!"  
If i try to crossover, i eat a big fat Sonic Flash turkey sandwhich... 
 
any tips for this Cammy/Dudley main? 
 
[EDIT] Nice to see the General Discussion bug got fixed.
#2 Posted by Jeffsekai (7026 posts) -

THIS SHIT IS BANANAS DOG

#3 Posted by MarceloAbans (139 posts) -

Canon Spike but make sure it wiffs or trades same with duddley's upper cut. Sure you take dmg but it resets poisitioning and if you tech land it you can move away quickly. It's what I do with cody then again the best way to avoid it is not to allow yourself to get cornered. 

#4 Posted by Killroycantkill (1383 posts) -

Real talk, fuck Guiles recovery. Was playing Copycatzen today and man, would punish garbage with my Abel. Maybe Holligan throw would be good? EX version is dangerous on anyone since it has air throw as well.

#5 Posted by Renahzor (991 posts) -
@PantyshotMQN: 
 
for cammy:
j.lk crossup stuffs flashkicks at certain ranges, then you can go into a B&B knockdown combo, put yourself at correct crossup range again...  You basically have to hope he makes a mistake though.  Getting close is a big part of the fight vs guile.  I tend to use a combination of empty jumps and lk C.strike at the top of the apex of the jump (which changes your trajectory pretty dramatically and can bait out some whiffed flashkicks), focus dash *forward* and then try and clear a sonic boom and land a hit/put him in block stun. Guile seems to struggle with pressure when you include the new j.lk crossup into your TKCS/throw/poke mixups.   If you stuff a FK with your j.lk crossup, its a pretty nasty air reset, you can walk back under him and combo from the opposite side/mixup.
 
Dont forget to frame trap hooligan if you land a lucky c.spike, most of them wont have charged a FK fast enough. 
 
If you get him to stop with the flashkicks, he'll use cr.fierce to AA your crossup attempts and normal TKCS shenanigans.  Save some meter and go for EX C.strike off a short jump to stuff it and combo. 
#6 Posted by Scooper (7882 posts) -

Guile is probably Cammy's worst matchup. Guile's are generaly defensive by nature and it's hard to catch them out. Good luck is all I can say.

#7 Edited by Napalm (9020 posts) -

I haven't fought a Cammy online I haven't beaten in Super IV* yet. No bullshit. I'm just being honest. This may sound assholish, but Cammy seems kind of gimmicky. It seems the only way half of her shit works is just because the other player forget for a second that one of her specials has such a fast start up and ended up eating a move. Guile essentially has a counter for everything she does, and I can counter with U1 on like, all of her shit. But yo, FUCK, Ibuki. If you want to beat Guile, pick Ibuki. Such a stupid cunt.

#8 Posted by Plasma (931 posts) -
@Napalm said:

" I haven't fought a Cammy online I haven't beaten in Super IV* yet. No bullshit. I'm just being honest. This may sound assholish, but Cammy seems kind of gimmicky. It seems the only way half of her shit works is just because the other player forget for a second that one of her specials has such a fast start up and ended up eating a move. Guile essentially has a counter for everything she does, and I can counter with U1 on like, all of her shit. But yo, FUCK, Ibuki. If you want to beat Guile, pick Ibuki. Such a stupid cunt. "

Such an in-depth and eloquent way to describe the situation.  
 
Guile is about being a wall, which is a hard thing for Cammy to overcome as she has no overhead or great way to deal with Guile's fast recovering sonic booms. The way the Cammy player from the Battlefield Arcadia streams (Can't remember the name) deals with turtles is to be super lame / patient. Just wait for them to make a mistake and punish HARD, do NOT miss that link as you only get a small amount of chances. Mind games yo.
 
Also Ibuki isn't a hard match-up for Guile, you can't SJ, hien or neckbreak the fireballs to set up an un-techable as he recovers too fast, she can be completely zoned out. I could be wrong though, haven't played many Guiles.
#9 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -
@Plasma: I can't deal with Ibuki. Once she starts crossups, mixups and air attacks, it's pretty much over for me. I never played Third Strike, so I knew nothing about her going in. From what I've been told the best success against Ibuki is to just rush her the fuck down, but I'm always a little hesitant to do this, because I feel like she can just wake up attack me.
#10 Posted by Vade (393 posts) -

Jump immediately after hk spiral arrow for safe 50-50 setup. Matchup is about the same as in vanilla, light punch spin knuckle to get past booms and build meter, get close with EX whatever.

#11 Posted by lilbigsupermario (840 posts) -

well even if guile's recovery is faster, it's still like a 1.5 second charge move so you have a bit of time to get near guile, but yeah, you have to do it fast.  time it, if he throws a slow sonic boom, don't block it, jump over it, he won't be able to throw another sonic boom as long as there's one still flying around hehe!  if you don't want to jump over it, focus dash cancel the sonic boom, that should advance you enough to get near somewhat to guile while he's still charging another sonic boom. then EX cannon spike in case he throws another sonic boom. if he blocks it, good luck haha! 
 
as mentioned above, guile is a bad matchup for cammy.  you'll just have to rely on her speed and press tactics to win against a well-played guile.

#12 Posted by Vade (393 posts) -
@lilbigsupermario:  Jumping over booms is ok but turtling out and going past them with spin knuckle builds meter faster than jump and light kick dive kick. Like you said, you don't want to block or focus because Guile builds meter faster that way.
#13 Posted by The_A_Drain (3910 posts) -

I have yet to find a Guile online who doesn't hand me my ass. 
 
It's bonkers, he's gone from being low teir, mid at best, to almost dog-tier, he is unbelievably fast now :\  
 
My only advice would be to jump (Jump?!! Is you nuts?), learn precisely how much range his flash kicks have, and jump directly up (not at an angle) over one of his Sonic Booms at just outside of this range and try to bait that som'bitch. I have no idea if this will work I don't play either Cammy or Guile in SFIV/Super. It may be completely terrible :D 
 
He's my favorite character but, fuck, fuck him :\  As Guy i've found it near impossible to get anywhere near him.

#14 Posted by DirrtyNinja (715 posts) -

Focus dash through his booms to get close then do your usual cammy shit from there.

#15 Posted by Jemenez (274 posts) -

dont play cammy

#16 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -
@The_A_Drain: Not really, haha. Guile's Flash Kick has different range. FK Flash Kick moves forward and has a larger arc, while LK Flash Kick has some invincibility frames on startup, and has a much smaller arc.
#17 Posted by The_A_Drain (3910 posts) -
@Napalm said:
" @The_A_Drain: Not really, haha. Guile's Flash Kick has different range. FK Flash Kick moves forward and has a larger arc, while LK Flash Kick has some invincibility frames on startup, and has a much smaller arc. "
Blehhhh that's annoying, is the HK flash distance too large to really be able to bait? 
 
I kinda feel really guilty for hoping Guile would be buffed in Super, because he's mental now :\
#18 Edited by Napalm (9020 posts) -
@The_A_Drain said:

" @Napalm said:

" @The_A_Drain: Not really, haha. Guile's Flash Kick has different range. FK Flash Kick moves forward and has a larger arc, while LK Flash Kick has some invincibility frames on startup, and has a much smaller arc. "
Blehhhh that's annoying, is the HK flash distance too large to really be able to bait?  I kinda feel really guilty for hoping Guile would be buffed in Super, because he's mental now :\ "
I don't really think you can. I don't know if it can counter that weird flying grab thing she does, because that always happens too quick and catches me off guard. But, bait it with what, exactly? Just an empty jump in or something?
#19 Posted by The_A_Drain (3910 posts) -
@Napalm said:
" @The_A_Drain said:

" @Napalm said:

" @The_A_Drain: Not really, haha. Guile's Flash Kick has different range. FK Flash Kick moves forward and has a larger arc, while LK Flash Kick has some invincibility frames on startup, and has a much smaller arc. "
Blehhhh that's annoying, is the HK flash distance too large to really be able to bait?  I kinda feel really guilty for hoping Guile would be buffed in Super, because he's mental now :\ "
I don't really think you can. I don't know if it can counter that weird flying grab thing she does, because that always happens too quick and catches me off guard. But, bait it with what, exactly? Just an empty jump in or something? "
Nah just a straight vertical jump, like, if the guile player is really twitchy and you have a real good judge of distance so he thinks you're in range, but i'll admit i'm clutching at straws happily haha. I'm pulling my hair out trying to get in on even mediocre Guile players at the moment (although I play Guy, not Cammy) 
 
Also WTF is with Guile's Air Throw seemingly always beating out Guy's command Air Throw? It's confusing/enraging me :S
#20 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -
@The_A_Drain said:
" @Napalm said:
" @The_A_Drain said:

" @Napalm said:

" @The_A_Drain: Not really, haha. Guile's Flash Kick has different range. FK Flash Kick moves forward and has a larger arc, while LK Flash Kick has some invincibility frames on startup, and has a much smaller arc. "
Blehhhh that's annoying, is the HK flash distance too large to really be able to bait?  I kinda feel really guilty for hoping Guile would be buffed in Super, because he's mental now :\ "
I don't really think you can. I don't know if it can counter that weird flying grab thing she does, because that always happens too quick and catches me off guard. But, bait it with what, exactly? Just an empty jump in or something? "
Nah just a straight vertical jump, like, if the guile player is really twitchy and you have a real good judge of distance so he thinks you're in range, but i'll admit i'm clutching at straws happily haha. I'm pulling my hair out trying to get in on even mediocre Guile players at the moment (although I play Guy, not Cammy)  Also WTF is with Guile's Air Throw seemingly always beating out Guy's command Air Throw? It's confusing/enraging me :S "
Well, if you bait with a vertical jump, you're playing a shitty Guile, haha. The only thing I can say is to rush a Guile down. I mean, Guile will win at distances against a Cammy most of the time, but if you crossup and confuse a Guile player, you might be able to win. Guile's Airthrow is awesome. It's the same with Akuma. Any time he goes in the air for an arc attack, it's easy to throw him back to the ground.
#21 Posted by The_A_Drain (3910 posts) -
@Napalm:  Cross-ups, ugh. :P Guy's doesn't work reliably mid-screen. As for rush down I guess i'll give it a go being a little more unrelenting, last time I tried straight up rushing down a Guile I was very surprised by how fast he recovers from Sonic Boom. I'll give it a go, I dunno, maybe it's just a real shit matchup for Guy.
#22 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -
@The_A_Drain said:
" @Napalm:  Cross-ups, ugh. :P Guy's doesn't work reliably mid-screen. As for rush down I guess i'll give it a go being a little more unrelenting, last time I tried straight up rushing down a Guile I was very surprised by how fast he recovers from Sonic Boom. I'll give it a go, I dunno, maybe it's just a real shit matchup for Guy. "
Oh sorry. I thought we were talking about Cammy still. I haven't faced any really good Guy players online, so I don't have much advice.
#23 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -
@mnzy: He has a pretty basic Guile, actually. He seems to be improving. He's a little bit better than those previous uploaded matches he had.
#24 Posted by demontium (4707 posts) -
@PantyshotMQN: I am not a cammy duder. 
 
But I know dudley, and his mixups with that HCF + K move are great on fireball characters like guile. 
 
Just come in like you are gonna hit them, walk up and grab. 
 
Works a lot.
#25 Posted by AniMoney (957 posts) -

This shit is bananas, B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

#26 Posted by gosukiller (2324 posts) -
@AniMoney said:
" This shit is bananas, B-A-N-A-N-A-S! "
Bandanas?

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