How do you "get in" on a turtle Gouken?

#1 Posted by Belonpopo (1823 posts) -

Being a Sakura player, I rely heavily on rushdown for most mtch-ups. Normally I can get close with a couple well timed jumps against a Ryu or Ken, but with nooby Goukens they just randomize their anti-air  hadokens. Even if you do get in close they just do a hurricane kick to prevent the rushdown and play keep away.

#2 Posted by GetEveryone (4454 posts) -
@Belonpopo said:
"nooby Goukens"
Sounds like they're shutting you out pretty well...
 
Just walk and block. Neutral jumps and focus attacks are your friends too.
#3 Posted by scarace360 (4828 posts) -

you dont!

#4 Posted by PhaggyBigNastyMcKill (564 posts) -

Take the chance and focus through a fireball then BNB away. Once you get the lead, lets see how much the guy likes to turtle. 

#5 Posted by lilbigsupermario (840 posts) -

If he's zoning you out really well, I don't think that's very "nooby" but Gouken's hadokens are pretty fast and hard to predict.  However, a nooby Gouken wouldn't really have that knowledge to mix up hadoken combinations that well to shut you out, so that means he has skill reading your plan of attack.  And the tatsu isn't really that easy to connect (well in my experience hehe)
 
As for how to get in against the hadoken attacks, first of all, don't jump too much to get near coz getting hit with the diagonal hadoken will just push you back at the end of the screen.  Your best bet is to absorb the horizontal hadoken to push forward or simply block and inch your way forward.  I don't recommend that you also use the EX Shouken  to go past the hadokens coz that's a very risky move since Gouken can throw that hadoken quickly and recover from the move immediately.  So get near (but not too near) and when you're in range for a cross-up, attempt the cross up.  If he attempts a tatsu and misses you on the cross up then it's a free hit for you.  But if he doesn't do the tatsu, be careful that he might attempt a counter, if that happens don't throw the cross up kick/punch and grab him immediately. :)

#6 Posted by gosukiller (2324 posts) -

Absorb the fireballs. Don't jump unless it's OVER a fireball. Air fireballs can put you back right where you started in the first place.
Try to bait counters, then proceed to punish with BnB.

#7 Posted by darkvare (743 posts) -

i use dudley move that passes through fireballs

#8 Posted by OwnlyUzinWonHan (1477 posts) -

I hate lame Goukens, but doesn't Sakura's LK Tatsu go through his fireballs if you time it right?
Then when you get it, alternate between throws and armor breaking moves if they're counter dependent.

#9 Posted by mubress (1517 posts) -
@GetEveryone said:
" @Belonpopo said:
"nooby Goukens"
Sounds like they're shutting you out pretty well...  Just walk and block. Neutral jumps and focus attacks are your friends too. "
Yes, it surprising how effective just plain old walking forward is.
#10 Posted by misterpope (379 posts) -
@OwnlyUzinWonHan said:
" I hate lame Goukens, but doesn't Sakura's LK Tatsu go through his fireballs if you time it right? Then when you get it, alternate between throws and armor breaking moves if they're counter dependent. "
I don't know if zoning out really well makes you a "lame" Gouken, since his primary game is zoning. 
 
But, to get in on him, neutral jumps are great. neutral jumps and focus attacks. if you get too close, he'll probably try to sweep you, and don't jump in on him or you might eat an anti-air tatsu thing. Just play smart.
#11 Posted by Jayzilla (2540 posts) -

yeah doesn't sound nooby to me. turtling and big damage seem to me the best way to play Gouken.

#12 Posted by gosukiller (2324 posts) -
@Jayzilla: Indeed. 
It's like saying Zangief players are lame for staying on top of you all the time. Zoning is Goukens game, just like Sakura has her kind of game. Just because you can't deal with it doesn't make it lame.
#13 Edited by lordofultima (6186 posts) -

Well of course the correct answer can only be: jetpacks. But really, nothing nooby about randomizing his hadouken pattern, isn't that the point of zoning?

#14 Posted by OwnlyUzinWonHan (1477 posts) -
@misterpope:  I just don't find sitting back and throwing fireballs all day fun as Gouken. The guy does way too much stun for me to just sit back and spam fireballs all day. I know I probably don't play him right, but I'd rather it be an exciting match than a 99-second fireball face-off.
#15 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -

You tell them to go fuck themselves and rage quit.
 
What? What did I say? Oh, you guys.

#16 Posted by misterpope (379 posts) -
@OwnlyUzinWonHan said:
" @misterpope:  I just don't find sitting back and throwing fireballs all day fun as Gouken. The guy does way too much stun for me to just sit back and spam fireballs all day. I know I probably don't play him right, but I'd rather it be an exciting match than a 99-second fireball face-off. "
There's no "right" way to play anybody, but Gouken is pretty good zoner. And yeah, fireball wars can get lame. Usually i mix it up with some Demon flips, then either l.kick to tatsu thing or a counter, or various things. 
#17 Posted by OwnlyUzinWonHan (1477 posts) -
@misterpope:  Yeah his Demon Flip's pretty good, and most people forget that his standing MP is an overhead, so after that I usually try his really fast crouching MP. Gouken's pretty fun to play as, it's a bummer that I don't see that many online.
#18 Posted by dbz1995 (4786 posts) -
@OwnlyUzinWonHan said:
" @misterpope:  Yeah his Demon Flip's pretty good, and most people forget that his standing MP is an overhead, so after that I usually try his really fast crouching MP. Gouken's pretty fun to play as, it's a bummer that I don't see that many online. "
His standing MP is an overhead? That'll help my Gouken play a lot-thanks! I probably should use the Demon Flip a lot more also.
#19 Posted by MarceloAbans (139 posts) -

So a turtling Gouken with his fireballs and keep away.. Damn those guys are annoying. As a Cody player I sometimes run into this issue but being that I know Sakura doesn't  have the same abilities here is some things I think based on what I can see can work for you..
 
Remember if they are turtling they are basing their entire game play on DEFENSE not offense, which takes pretty much 1/2 of the pressure of a rush down on to you out of the equation. Also take note of patterns, focus attack a fireball and resist jumping, then see how he reacts. If he shoots one to potentially catch you in the air, do him a favor, next time eat it. Yea sounds stupid but eating 1 or 2 of those balls puts him into a false sense of "Good this is gonna work on this guy". After that, NEVER jump for the rest of the round. Then engage in a fireball war.. Sure Sak's isn't too fast but it'll be the best way for stay relatively safe while keeping some sort of pressure on them, his 3 options are, shot a fireball, jump (whether diagonally or neutral) or take the chip dmg and block.. Once you build an EX bar that's is when you are immediately at an advantage over Gouken.. You EX ball hits twice, and travels an unlimited amount of distance.  Sure Gouken can charge up an EX fireball to allow 2 hits but then at that point he's completely available for open shots like Jump smashes, dash in to close the game or anything else viable to take advantage of the situation. Even if he decides to just do a regular EX fireball, it shoots one low and 1 high which only absorbs 1 hit still allowing you to advance. Once you do a fair amount of dmg where you are leading in health then turn it on him, making him having to come after you. Running Palms and Demon Flips are easier enough to read to avoid so you can punish them accordingly. I find that most players who play a turtle style of play often get really easily confused when they feel that they have to catch up. This works fairly well when I play with Cody though he has a few more tricks to get around his fireball games, since he can slide under them which believe it or not helps TONS! Ultimately the idea of being a turtle is to wait for your opponent to make a mistake, and punishing them then wait till the next opportunity till he kills you or times runs out. I have a Gouken Match (I'll post video later) where he engages me in a fireball war with Cody and it's almost 45 seconds before the 1st hit is even scored. Only thing I would be really wary of is getting over zealous and then switching to your rush down game since Gouken has a good Parry and Counter move. So when ever possible open with your armor break move or just air on the side of caution and wait it out. The only real thing actively working against you is your low dmg output and armor so you have to be REAL careful because 1 combo can even you out real quick. Hope it helps..

#20 Edited by AnnouncerGXZ (702 posts) -
@Belonpopo said:

" Being a Sakura player, I rely heavily on rushdown for most mtch-ups. Normally I can get close with a couple well timed jumps against a Ryu or Ken, but with nooby Goukens they just randomize their anti-air  hadokens. Even if you do get in close they just do a hurricane kick to prevent the rushdown and play keep away. "

doesnt sound like a noob to me. sounds more like your oponent is a skilled one. no hard feeling. jus something i analyze from what you said.
 
and it sound just like daigo.... play keep away. that is skill. not noob. 
either tie or win. no option for lose.
 
 
i play turttle too if my oponent is bison that keep doing step head. he run out the match cuz i do anti step head on him and he call me a noob. everything is futile.
 
 
and why do real noobs always call skilled player noob?
#21 Posted by Heartbreak (288 posts) -
@AnnouncerGXZ said:
" @Belonpopo said:

" Being a Sakura player, I rely heavily on rushdown for most mtch-ups. Normally I can get close with a couple well timed jumps against a Ryu or Ken, but with nooby Goukens they just randomize their anti-air  hadokens. Even if you do get in close they just do a hurricane kick to prevent the rushdown and play keep away. "

doesnt sound like a noob to me. sounds more like your oponent is a skilled one. no hard feeling. jus something i analyze from what you said.  and it sound just like daigo.... play keep away. that is skill. not noob.  either tie or win. no option for lose.   i play turttle too if my oponent is bison that keep doing step head. he run out the match cuz i do anti step head on him and he call me a noob. everything is futile.   and why do real noobs always call skilled player noob? "
Because this terrible Honda player is mad that I space SB's like a god.
#22 Posted by Thrawn1 (1340 posts) -

parry that shit

#23 Posted by MB (11322 posts) -
@lordofultima said:
" Well of course the correct answer can only be: jetpacks. But really, nothing nooby about randomizing his hadouken pattern, isn't that the point of zoning? "
Those were some good times, huh? I miss SF, I just don't have the time for it anymore.
Moderator
#24 Posted by demontium (4707 posts) -
@Belonpopo: Sakura's EX and Heavy Tatsu's can jump and punish strongly his light hadokens.  
 
Once you get it dont give up the pressure. If you are merely jumping the Hadokens, you're gonna get ultra'd or anti-aired. Methinks you walk/block forward and pressure as much as possible. Other than that this match is pretty balanced.
#25 Posted by Terrell (417 posts) -

Nice to see another Sakura player... but you have to try to  get in the other opponents head (regardless of who they choose).  Learn all of the "tricks" of that Character... and bait them into false hope that they can pull off those moves. Also, play "offensively defensive", meaning continuously approach and issue attacks but with a defensive mind. Rush down only to block (watching for throws/overheads/etc). If you get him down, and he doesn't immediately get back up, make it seem like you missed a follow up (like an overhead). This "whiff" will make them think you are going to do it again to try and connect, so when they do eventually wake up, they will pull out some counter, only to be blocked because you were prepared for it... 
 
Just work hard, you'll get it... Everyone has a weakness. It just takes diligence.
#26 Posted by DeadManRollin (69 posts) -

Haha if the tactic is working, you aren't playing against a noob!

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