What's with the SSFIV AE HATE!?

Posted by AntoineDiamonds (79 posts) -

i saw it finally came out and got it right away because sf is awesome and my gf bought me the points to buy it so no complaints there either lol. I gotta say it didn't sound as pleasing as it is to play it. everyone is hating the new chars but they aren't even OP. I just don't get the hate though. people I know won't even play or get AE, they said that's the end of ssf4 for them. I'm happy i bought this and I like the changes it brought to certain characters. Sure your saying guile is the suxxor now but in reality he isn't uber dmg anymore and now more balanced for the cast..ryu got toned down even tho when I read the changes for him it sounded like he got buffed lol. so if you HATE SSF4 AE...why?

#1 Posted by AntoineDiamonds (79 posts) -

i saw it finally came out and got it right away because sf is awesome and my gf bought me the points to buy it so no complaints there either lol. I gotta say it didn't sound as pleasing as it is to play it. everyone is hating the new chars but they aren't even OP. I just don't get the hate though. people I know won't even play or get AE, they said that's the end of ssf4 for them. I'm happy i bought this and I like the changes it brought to certain characters. Sure your saying guile is the suxxor now but in reality he isn't uber dmg anymore and now more balanced for the cast..ryu got toned down even tho when I read the changes for him it sounded like he got buffed lol. so if you HATE SSF4 AE...why?

#2 Posted by FourWude (2261 posts) -

They're just being mad salty bro.

#3 Posted by lilbigsupermario (842 posts) -

I don't understand the hate either.. personally, I like AE :D 
 
maybe they don't like the PP and BP getting reset?  Those are just points... 
 
maybe they hate that there will be a lot of Yun and Yang's online?  Give it a couple of weeks and you'll see more variety again... 
 
maybe they hate that evil ryu and oni are just re-skinned ryu and akuma?  They just don't understand that evil ryu and oni play very differently from ryu and akuma 
 
 
I guess they just want to find something to complain about.  For me, I like the balance so far, I haven't noticed a lot of difference yet except for Seth losing his jumping stretchy arms.

#4 Posted by ricetopher (1046 posts) -

Because people are allowed to have opinions and not like things?

I know the majority of the community on this site partakes in the collective jerking off of SF4 or even the SF series in general, but did it ever occur that some people just don't like it?

I'm not really going to go into why I don't like AE because thats how I wake up tomorrow morning to a PM inbox full of angry replies.

#5 Posted by JJOR64 (18995 posts) -

I can totally understand the hate for Yun.  Yun is fucking a monster if played properly.

#6 Posted by John1912 (1886 posts) -

People are sick of rehashed/reskinned characters.  Think they are pretty sick of shotos as well.

#7 Posted by GetEveryone (4455 posts) -

I can understand a lot of the hate. There's no question Yun is OP, but the rest of the balance isn't so that it's a massive problem. The pro competitive scene must at least be a little hacked off, though. Basically, if you want to win now you need to stick with one of Yun's bad match-ups and develop some solid strats, or just go with the skateboarding freak. I'm actually struggling more against Evil Ryu and Oni than I am the twins, but I've barely been exposed to them in media before release.
 
As it stands, I think it's great. I loved vanilla, and (going back to it recently) enjoy fighting what basically amounts to a boss-character online.
 
Plus Ken got sick buffs (just to get it out there again).

#8 Posted by CL60 (16906 posts) -

I still need to buy it, but I have no money and only 410 microsoft points :'(

#9 Posted by McGhee (6094 posts) -

Seems good to me. I like having new characters to fight against.

#10 Posted by AURON570 (1674 posts) -

well even if I wanted to get AE, I can't until my bandwidth limit resets at the end of the month. Aside from that I have a bunch of personal reasons for not wanting AE. Think of it like a mid-gaming-life crisis or something. I've gotten over the new characters and the balance changes. I just don't really know if I want to continue playing anymore. I guess I'm a bit salty/jealous, but whatever.

#11 Posted by TaccyP (307 posts) -

Yun and Yang are definitely major threats, but they are far from unbeatable. It'll take time, but eventually the match ups will be learned; Yun and Yang will be figured out. Keep in mind that a Sagat player never won a major in vanilla despite being a clear S-class character.

#12 Posted by Sooty (8082 posts) -

Yun is nowhere near as bad as vanilla Sagat and he doesn't do as much damage as Sagat does in AE.
 
Mad good though, but yeah, far from broken.

#13 Posted by Haseo (53 posts) -

SF4 is the worst SF in recent years to me.  All it has been in a very hollow fighter without substance.  Capcom fill the need to pump out DLC after DLC of costumes which are already in the game.  These things used to be rewarded on playing the game not putting money into it.  I've played most of the fighters on this gen and SF comes off as the weakest one in terms of game play, fun and content.  Sorry Capcom, Mortal Kombat set a new standard of what a fighter should come packaged with and this update of yours isn't even close.  4 new fighters 2 of which are pretty much the same character with a different head on them.  Evil Ryu ad Oni come on, Evil Ryu is just Ryu with a few of Akuma's moves and Oni well *yawn* Shin Akuma again.  Lazy package Capcom.  I'm done with SF4 call me when you start making decent fighters again.

#14 Edited by Sooty (8082 posts) -
@Haseo said:

SF4 is the worst SF in recent years to me.  All it has been in a very hollow fighter without substance.  Capcom fill the need to pump out DLC after DLC of costumes which are already in the game.  These things used to be rewarded on playing the game not putting money into it.  I've played most of the fighters on this gen and SF comes off as the weakest one in terms of game play, fun and content.  Sorry Capcom, Mortal Kombat set a new standard of what a fighter should come packaged with and this update of yours isn't even close.  4 new fighters 2 of which are pretty much the same character with a different head on them.  Evil Ryu ad Oni come on, Evil Ryu is just Ryu with a few of Akuma's moves and Oni well *yawn* Shin Akuma again.  Lazy package Capcom.  I'm done with SF4 call me when you start making decent fighters again.

SFIV has substance, unless you mean it has a lack of offline content compared to MK in which case, sure, if you mean it doesn't have a deep fighting system then you are very wrong. 
 
Oni is a pretty unique character actually. Say what you want about Evil Ryu but the twins are both excellent additions and do not play that similarly at all.
 
Why are you comparing a small update, that costs 10 bucks or so to a full retail title? That's pretty dumb.
#15 Posted by groin (847 posts) -

I know that these guys like AE.

#16 Posted by ArbitraryWater (11741 posts) -

I wrote that blog about what I thought, as a lower-mid level player and basically my conclusion was that nothing that has been added works to my personal benefit as someone who plays Bison, Vega, and Seth, all of whom have recieved some sort of nerf. (at which point it kinda just turned into a general discussion thread about the DLC). From what I've played online, yeah, Yun does kind of suck. He's not broken or anything though. It's not like he's Vanilla Sagat taking out a ridiculous amount of your health with a single Tiger Uppercut.

#17 Posted by ThePhantomnaut (6197 posts) -

Not hatin. Most of the players who try out the new guys are not that good anyways.

#18 Edited by SirOptimusPrime (2010 posts) -
@ArbitraryWater: I get what you're saying, but Seth is not even closed to being nerfed. Sure, his j.hp is gone and his twinkletoes were changed a bit, but in respect to the rest of his pressure changes and health and stun boost, he got buffed. Plus, his zoning is evened out with SBs being better. The majority of professional Seth players (i.e. OnlineTony and Poongko + others) play him as a sheer pressure character anyways, so the zoning change is only minor. 
 
Anyways, I don't know how I feel about AE. I loved playing Yang in 3S (unfortunately, Q didn't get added, so my true 3S favorite is still only in 3S) so I was more than happy that the twins were added, even if Yun is incredibly good (not OP, but clearly the best in terms of options) he has bad matchups. And if the game turns into Fei v. Yun only against Yun players, then so be it. Since one of my friends mains Yun I feel I'll be safe in terms of the matchup, but the straight-up weird changes they made to other characters is puzzling (like seriously, if you couldn't already punish Balrog's headbutt on block fuck you. It's not even a problem, it just seems like a waste of time). 
#19 Posted by lilbigsupermario (842 posts) -

give it a couple of weeks and as soon as people learn how to fight against Yun, he won't be that bad ass anymore :D 
 
@ricetopher: yeah i agree with you, everyone has their own opinion and some just don't like it. :)

#20 Posted by Bravestar (381 posts) -
@lilbigsupermario said:
give it a couple of weeks and as soon as people learn how to fight against Yun, he won't be that bad ass anymore :D 
As soon as people really learn how to fight as yun, he will be as bad ass as everyone says.

Imagine you couldn't punish Sakura on block. That's pretty much Yun. And add more mix-up abilites. And add an EX move that can't be grabbed and is not only safe on block, but gives Yun a frame advantage. And you can't zone him with fireballs very well, because he has an attack that goes under fireballs and knocks you down(which leads into mix-ups). And he can build meter much faster than any other character. And his super is amazing. Among other things.
A bad player woun't miraculously win with Yun, but a good player will be even harder to beat.
#21 Posted by cheebaking (123 posts) -

As a Rose player, AE is somewhat of a slap in the old face. Seeing someone like Yun compared to what they did to Rose its madness.

"Sir. Isn't Yun somewhat unbalanced in the game now?"

"No! Be quiet! Lets move onto the important points. Yet another patch and Rose is still god tier! How can we ruin her further?!"

"Well her ultra 1 doesn't have a lot of application...I guess we could just do the same for ultra 2?"

"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ALwKeSEYs"

#22 Posted by MysteriousBob (6272 posts) -

Two characters from SF3 I've never cared about. 
Yun is OP. 
Evil Ryu and Oni are so astoundingly stupid I can only assume they were designed as joke characters. 
The whole cast has been nerfed. 

#23 Posted by Lunar_Aura (2779 posts) -

@groin said:

I know that these guys like AE.

That picture is great because those guys probably did it for hobby while there are pro gamers who whittle away their life not even getting that much and the hours wasted would barely clear minimum wage. Bottom line: If you can't make that kind of bank doing it for fun, don't quit your day job to be a pro gamer.

Oh, and AE is great I had it since Arcade Infinity had it, was the first to unlock ERyu/Oni, etc.

#24 Posted by smang (5 posts) -

yun. if you don't think he's OP you haven't used him or played it!

#25 Posted by NickBOTT (481 posts) -
Yoooooooo diamonds!  Being a "person that you know" I may get AE now just so u have to edit ur blog lol nah but i dunno maybe ill wait a bit for all the yun/yang evil ryu and oni craze to die down then ill get it.  I'm not really in the mood to play AE and it being like yun yun yun yun yun yun yun yun yun yun evil ryu yun yun yun oni oni yun it was bad enough with SSFIV having to face a billion ryu's but we'll see.
#26 Posted by Doctorchimp (4076 posts) -
@LunarAura said:

@groin said:

I know that these guys like AE.

That picture is great because those guys probably did it for hobby while there are pro gamers who whittle away their life not even getting that much and the hours wasted would barely clear minimum wage. Bottom line: If you can't make that kind of bank doing it for fun, don't quit your day job to be a pro gamer.

Oh, and AE is great I had it since Arcade Infinity had it, was the first to unlock ERyu/Oni, etc.

Oh hey...
 
You must be a dude who doesn't know what he's talking about.
 
Daigo and Mago....are probably in training mode right now.....
#27 Posted by AntoineDiamonds (79 posts) -
@groin said:

I know that these guys like AE.

LOL that's great
#28 Posted by AntoineDiamonds (79 posts) -
@NickBOTT said:
Yoooooooo diamonds!  Being a "person that you know" I may get AE now just so u have to edit ur blog lol nah but i dunno maybe ill wait a bit for all the yun/yang evil ryu and oni craze to die down then ill get it.  I'm not really in the mood to play AE and it being like yun yun yun yun yun yun yun yun yun yun evil ryu yun yun yun oni oni yun it was bad enough with SSFIV having to face a billion ryu's but we'll see.
I can't even explain the ass yun/yang/oni/e-ryu players that are out there right now but it's really not all the new chars being played..i see ibuki and dudley way more and the classics like viper chun ken etc.
 
and who cares about rank points bro let's get that ENDLESS GOING!
#29 Edited by Lunar_Aura (2779 posts) -

@Doctorchimp: So Daigo and Mago quit their real jobs? These fighting game tournaments pay their bills as full time work?

Last I heard both those dudes had real jobs as does a bunch of other pro FG dudes I'd rather not namedrop. My point was that picture is funny because there are kids who would interpret that as if playing professional video games is enough to sustain a livelihood. While not impossible, the chances are far too slim.

#30 Posted by ColumnBreaker (1164 posts) -

Yun is very frustrating - to players that didn't play 3rd Strike. If you learned how to play against either of the twins in 3rd Strike, those reads and defensive tactics transfer directly over. Give yourself some time to adjust and realize that they aren't all that scary when you have proper spacing.

#31 Posted by GetEveryone (4455 posts) -
@ColumnBreaker: Yeah, but the problem is once they get that first KD, or get in on you. Dealing with the sheer amount of bullshit that they have goes from being a test of patience to down-right unfair in some cases. 
 
Like you say, though, keep them out and stay properly spaced; only problem is a lot of characters don't really have that ability.
#32 Posted by ColumnBreaker (1164 posts) -

@GetEveryone said:

@ColumnBreaker: Yeah, but the problem is once they get that first KD, or get in on you. Dealing with the sheer amount of bullshit that they have goes from being a test of patience to down-right unfair in some cases. Like you say, though, keep them out and stay properly spaced; only problem is a lot of characters don't really have that ability.

Not all characters fight well against all other characters. That's just the nature of the game. If you're scared of Yun nonsense and your character isn't built to handle him well either - pick up a Yun counter and go from there. It's more work but if you're able to get in on Yun with another character you'll understand that side of the fight better and be able to tune your main a little bit to reflect that. Balrog is a great start to shutting down Yun. I dislike both of the twins but long-term I think people will find they're no worse than Sagat was in vanilla.

#33 Posted by AntoineDiamonds (79 posts) -

also knowing what your opponent can do and what his pokes are..every yun i played did that twirling kick that i guess hit's over head and i just focus the one hit move and bam..uber damage 
 
i honestly had way more trouble vs gief then any of the dlc characters

#34 Posted by musclerider (589 posts) -

@Bravestar said:

@lilbigsupermario said:
give it a couple of weeks and as soon as people learn how to fight against Yun, he won't be that bad ass anymore :D
As soon as people really learn how to fight as yun, he will be as bad ass as everyone says. Imagine you couldn't punish Sakura on block. That's pretty much Yun. And add more mix-up abilites. And add an EX move that can't be grabbed and is not only safe on block, but gives Yun a frame advantage. And you can't zone him with fireballs very well, because he has an attack that goes under fireballs and knocks you down(which leads into mix-ups). And he can build meter much faster than any other character. And his super is amazing. Among other things. A bad player won't miraculously win with Yun, but a good player will be even harder to beat.

To everyone that is saying "you can totes beat Yun if you just play the game better." This post perfectly states why he's stupid broken. The hate isn't because Capcom made a character who's hard to beat but rather because they made a character who is so much better than most of the cast that there's not a whole lot of things you can actually do other than counterpick.

#35 Posted by BUCK3TM4N (549 posts) -

im just happy to see it on PC

#36 Posted by AntoineDiamonds (79 posts) -

I'll be honest here..he isn't that good

#37 Posted by Hailinel (24830 posts) -

@ColumnBreaker said:

@GetEveryone said:

@ColumnBreaker: Yeah, but the problem is once they get that first KD, or get in on you. Dealing with the sheer amount of bullshit that they have goes from being a test of patience to down-right unfair in some cases. Like you say, though, keep them out and stay properly spaced; only problem is a lot of characters don't really have that ability.

Not all characters fight well against all other characters. That's just the nature of the game. If you're scared of Yun nonsense and your character isn't built to handle him well either - pick up a Yun counter and go from there. It's more work but if you're able to get in on Yun with another character you'll understand that side of the fight better and be able to tune your main a little bit to reflect that. Balrog is a great start to shutting down Yun. I dislike both of the twins but long-term I think people will find they're no worse than Sagat was in vanilla.

But if you're good with a specific character against most of the roster save one specific character who happens to be murderous against everyone else when played by a skilled player, that says more about the opposing character being imbalanced than it does your need to counter-pick.

#38 Posted by ColumnBreaker (1164 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

@ColumnBreaker said:

@GetEveryone said:

@ColumnBreaker: Yeah, but the problem is once they get that first KD, or get in on you. Dealing with the sheer amount of bullshit that they have goes from being a test of patience to down-right unfair in some cases. Like you say, though, keep them out and stay properly spaced; only problem is a lot of characters don't really have that ability.

Not all characters fight well against all other characters. That's just the nature of the game. If you're scared of Yun nonsense and your character isn't built to handle him well either - pick up a Yun counter and go from there. It's more work but if you're able to get in on Yun with another character you'll understand that side of the fight better and be able to tune your main a little bit to reflect that. Balrog is a great start to shutting down Yun. I dislike both of the twins but long-term I think people will find they're no worse than Sagat was in vanilla.

But if you're good with a specific character against most of the roster save one specific character who happens to be murderous against everyone else when played by a skilled player, that says more about the opposing character being imbalanced than it does your need to counter-pick.

Not at all, it says that you can better learn how to deal with the twins with a character that naturally does well against them. If it comes down to you being unable to develop a successful gameplan against them with your main, you're better of counter-picking than being stubborn and crying for balancing. Any character can beat the twins, some have it easier than others. Welcome to fighting games. Remember all the bitching about Sagat in vanilla? How did that turn out? Sagat is a strong character in vanilla, but he certainly didn't dominate after people learned how to play against him. If memory serves, there wasn't a single Sagat that took a major tournament in vanilla.

#39 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -
@musclerider said:

@Bravestar said:

@lilbigsupermario said:
give it a couple of weeks and as soon as people learn how to fight against Yun, he won't be that bad ass anymore :D
As soon as people really learn how to fight as yun, he will be as bad ass as everyone says. Imagine you couldn't punish Sakura on block. That's pretty much Yun. And add more mix-up abilites. And add an EX move that can't be grabbed and is not only safe on block, but gives Yun a frame advantage. And you can't zone him with fireballs very well, because he has an attack that goes under fireballs and knocks you down(which leads into mix-ups). And he can build meter much faster than any other character. And his super is amazing. Among other things. A bad player won't miraculously win with Yun, but a good player will be even harder to beat.

To everyone that is saying "you can totes beat Yun if you just play the game better." This post perfectly states why he's stupid broken. The hate isn't because Capcom made a character who's hard to beat but rather because they made a character who is so much better than most of the cast that there's not a whole lot of things you can actually do other than counterpick.

The problem is that the twins don't fit into the IV framework, and technically, neither do any of the Third Strike characters. IV was meant to be equally defensive and offensive, and the engine isn't equipped to handle murderously offensive characters... that's why there were none in SFIV originally. There were obvious balance issues with damage powerhouses like Sagat, and Guile being absolute shit in every aspect. I feel the real balance came from Super. Every character felt on par with everybody else and the true skill came from the player fully. Yes, every character will have a handful of awful matchups,, but nothing feels so awfully tipped in one direction that the other player still can't come out on top.
#40 Posted by gosukiller (2324 posts) -
@cheebaking said:

As a Rose player, AE is somewhat of a slap in the old face. Seeing someone like Yun compared to what they did to Rose its madness.

"Sir. Isn't Yun somewhat unbalanced in the game now?"

"No! Be quiet! Lets move onto the important points. Yet another patch and Rose is still god tier! How can we ruin her further?!"

"Well her ultra 1 doesn't have a lot of application...I guess we could just do the same for ultra 2?"

"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ALwKeSEYs"

As a fellow Rose player I can feel your pain. It's astounding that they would take a B-tier (at maximum) character like Rose and try to make one of her only edges on other fighters "balanced".  
 
All the while that is happening, they give us Yun and Yang in their current state. 
#41 Posted by Jimi (1126 posts) -

Yun is pretty broken. He feels like an mvc character in sf4.

Other than that I like it.

#42 Posted by MideonNViscera (2257 posts) -
#43 Posted by WinterSnowblind (7617 posts) -

Yun and Yang are completely unbalanced and just awful characters. 
I'm not hugely into Street Fighter, but did anyone want to see those two added?
#44 Posted by Chalian (216 posts) -

this is why 
  
#45 Posted by TheUnsavedHero (1255 posts) -

I haven't played AE. I kinda fell off the SSFIV radar since I heard 3rd Strike was coming soon. I've been playing 3rd Strike on my original Xbox for awhile now and if I were to jump back into SSFIV with AE, I'd just get worked over bad. The people that I do know who have played it, loved it. So I think it's just people crying over nerfs.

#46 Posted by xSoulBeaver (9 posts) -

@UnsavedHero said:

I haven't played AE. I kinda fell off the SSFIV radar since I heard 3rd Strike was coming soon. I've been playing 3rd Strike on my original Xbox for awhile now and if I were to jump back into SSFIV with AE, I'd just get worked over bad. The people that I do know who have played it, loved it. So I think it's just people crying over nerfs.

Agreed. The larger number of complaints and hate I've heard about AE have been over nerfs to existing characters, not the twins.

Honestly, I can't help but agree in some cases; some of these nerfs felt completely unnecessary, and I don't even play some of the characters that got hit. Who thought Vega needed a nerf? Or that Blanka needed to be even LESS safe? Or that M.Bison needed both his Ultra 2 AND his s.HK, two of his best punishment and spacing tools taken down a peg?

In the case of one that hits home, let's talk about my sub, Rose: I'm totally okay with the Soul Satellite nerf, it honestly deserved it (no character should have a completely safe get-out-of-jail-free card). But why did they nerf her best poke, c.MP? And why did she get absolutely no buffs to compensate like some of the other nerfed characters did? She should at least get some extra combo damage or projectile speed since they hurt what were arguably her best tools.

Ehhh... I ranted a bit. I'm very happy with AE as a whole (especially the buffs they gave Guy :D). But some characters did seem to get crapped on in the conversion.

#47 Posted by jetsetwillie (857 posts) -

its the internet dude. if its not hating its masterbating. 

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