Yun = the death of AE?

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#1 Posted by Elyhaym (244 posts) -

While I realize that the topic title is a bit overdramatic, I was curious to hear you guys opinion on Yun's alleged overpoweredness.

I've been reading different sites (Eventhubs, SRK, IPW etc) and it seems people are split into two camps about Yun. One thinks he's the second coming of God Tier Sagat, while the other defends him?
I thought I'd ask you fine people, since you seem like a level-headed lot and I'd hopefully get a more useful answer other than: "OMG YUN IS SICK, RAGEQUIT!"
I realize Ono has said that both Yun and Yang would be very powerful additions to the roster, but is it ruining the game for people? Anyone here not gonna bother with AE due to that?

For me personally, it doesn't matter that much, since I probably won't be playing super high-level anyway, and I plan on using Yang instead, since his playstyle and move-set appeal more to me.
#2 Posted by lordofultima (6289 posts) -

He's a lot better than Vanilla Sagat IMO, but I don't think that's bad personally.

#3 Posted by M_33 (527 posts) -

I just feel bad that I planned on using Yun when it came out since he looks like a character I'd use. Kind of sucks when all you'd get after wins are messages like ''omg yun iz so cheep u suk''.  There's also the chance that I'll just stick with Rose and make do with the soul satellite nerf.  



#4 Posted by thegoldencat7 (1501 posts) -

If Event Hubs put up a story about a cat that could play the harmonica people would still be whining about Yun in the comments. Its getting pretty tedious now.  Pre-occupation with tier-lists in general annoys me. 

#5 Posted by Elyhaym (244 posts) -
@thegoldencat7

Yeah, I might just have to condition myself into not ever reading comments, since there does seem to be quite the amount of complaining going on.
#6 Posted by VicRattlehead (1400 posts) -
@thegoldencat7: a cat that could play the harmonica would be pretty fucking cool
@Elyhaym: im with you... ill not be playing at a high enough level for it to really matter
#7 Posted by YetiAntics (1493 posts) -

Personally i am tired of SF4 and this new edition bores me to death.

I'm ready for the next big thing, kiddos.
#8 Posted by Skogen (430 posts) -

I wouldn't go so far as saying Yun killed AE, but rather the balancing tweaks that favor rushdown killed SF4.

#9 Edited by ricetopher (1046 posts) -

Keep in mind that no one has access to training mode for AE. Once the game comes to consoles our understanding of the character can increase dramatically. Counter picks will be found.

AE is already dead to me though; I put the money I was going to spend on the download towards a copy of Guilty Gear XX Accent Core.

#10 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -

Yun has pretty much been confirmed as easy mode. The death? Not necessarily, but a lot of defense/charge characters will have a hard time with him constantly bouncing around the screen. It doesn't appear to be easy to zone him out or corner him. He seems like the worst traits of Rufus and Ibuki.

#11 Edited by GetEveryone (4459 posts) -

I honestly couldn't give a fuck. SSF4 is so stale that absolutely any change/addition is wholly welcome. The re-balance and new characters are fine imo. Sagat was never that  much of a problem in vanilla, and it just forces you to learn the match-up.

I love SSF4, so if they're going to rejuvenate it, it's all good in my book (plus Yun/Yang and Oni all look pretty sick).


Like I've said before, even if there is an S-tier, as long as the rest of the roster is more or less an even playing field, it isn't a problem. 

Those lovely Ken buffs are going to be     a w e s o m e.
#12 Posted by leroyrockwell (48 posts) -
@VicRattlehead: NO it wouldn't.  @thegoldencat7  is obviously BIAS.. HE'S PRO CATS.  I say Dog would be better because of the saliva. (HA) Oh event hubs.. their comment section always hilarious.  Either they are complaining or whining about something not being offered for Free.

Personally for me, It would be a nice change for shoto fighter IV.  HAHA. Still I'll enjoy the game no matter what because I play ranked every now and then but mostly just play with friends.  I'll check them out but I'll still be happy with my Chun and Ibuki.

I just hope it doesn't make the streams I watch really boring. I wasn't watching the streams during SF4 Sagat party.  I don't want to see a sea of Yuns but also tournament players have to play to win so... : (
#13 Posted by Elyhaym (244 posts) -
@ricetopher: That's what I'm hoping. The more people who get access to him in the lab, the bigger the chance of figuring out flaws with him.
It'd be somewhat discouraging if Yun is just the alpha and omega of AE.
@GetEveryone: I agree with you. I just hope it'll help revitalize SF, as I'm kind of a late arrival to the party and it'd be bit of a bummer if it turns out to be a ghosttown from now on.
#14 Posted by TechHits (1391 posts) -

people keep saying things like "evo will be all yun vs yun". Yun has bad match ups, and it's not always great idea go for a mirror, people seem to forget that.

#15 Posted by ImmortalSaiyan (4713 posts) -

I plan on using Yun or Yang so I don't mind.
#16 Posted by Giacomito (208 posts) -

my take on it:
Vanilla Sagat had ridiculous damage output and could get bull-shit "lucky" wins + had ALOT of health.

Yun has good offensive options, but it's not auto-pilot, you still have to learn how to use him properly, I cant wait for all the scrubs trying to play him online because they think he is easy mode and get owned.
He has good damaging combos and is very very good. BUT, he does not have ALOT of health like Sagat did, which makes him less frightening, because if he makes a couple of mistakes, he can be dead depending on who he is fighting.

SO, I don't think Yun is bad for AE, not any worse than Sagat was in vanilla at least.
I for one like the challenge of learning how to beat a "god tier" character, because it is not impossible like some people make it out to be.
I mean, sure, if you are top-level tournament player, you probably want to at least think about picking Yun up, or at least a character that's a good counter-pick.
but as far as us "normal" online players go, Yun makes no impact on the game as a whole.

#17 Posted by GetEveryone (4459 posts) -

I'm still of the opinion that at our level of play T-Hawk is about a million times scarier.

#18 Posted by StaticFalconar (4850 posts) -

I don't mind. The level of play I'm at and the people I would most likely play with Yun ain't gonna be a problem. 


In fact I really like the more rush down oriented playstyle in AE since it sure beats the downback city that SF4 favored. In fact that was the only reason why Sagat was Top tier in SF4, Yes his high health and output helped as well, but when you can happily sit back and zone with high and low fireballs and the best choice you can make when you are playing smart is to wait for them to come to you....... Its a real uphill battle unless you're super good at the game. 

but with yun, the other person has to know how to rush, and if the player isn't super good, most likely he's just going to leave himself open for your attacks. A fair trade off IMO. 
#19 Posted by Killroycantkill (1432 posts) -

Chun and Ken were not the death of 3rd Strike. So as I see it as long as the game is fun people will play it and play the characters they want despite those S-Tier guys.

#20 Posted by Doctorchimp (4058 posts) -

As someone who's favorite game was Third Strike and picked Yun against all the Chuns and Kens at the arcade....it's going to be fine.

He's still not even the strongest. I thought Fei Long was top tier?

Also AE Yun is nothing like Chun-Li or Ken from 3rd Strike and he definitely isn't as powerful as Sagat was in SF4 vanilla.

#21 Posted by JJOR64 (19098 posts) -

There are some people who are mad salty about Yun being to good and I can see why.  I'm still going to be playing the game since I can't play in any tournaments locally.  Wish there was a scene here though.   :(

I really hope there is at least one more balance update before Capcom is done with SF4, but Capcom has stated that they are done with SF4 now so I shouldn't keep my hopes up.

#22 Posted by Doctorchimp (4058 posts) -
@TechHits said:
people keep saying things like "evo will be all yun vs yun". Yun has bad match ups, and it's not always great idea go for a mirror, people seem to forget that.
Which is the absolutely funniest part about this whole thing.

EVO for sure is going to be more varied than it was last year.
#23 Posted by TechHits (1391 posts) -
@JJOR64 said:
There are some people who are mad salty about Yun being to good and I can see why.  I'm still going to be playing the game since I can't play in any tournaments locally.  Wish there was a scene here though.   :(I really hope there is at least one more balance update before Capcom is done with SF4, but Capcom has stated that they are done with SF4 now so I shouldn't keep my hopes up.
yah, Capcom wants to keep both versions the same( arcade and home), a patch would ruin that parity. 
#24 Edited by Doctorchimp (4058 posts) -
@TechHits said:

@JJOR64 said:

There are some people who are mad salty about Yun being to good and I can see why.  I'm still going to be playing the game since I can't play in any tournaments locally.  Wish there was a scene here though.   :(I really hope there is at least one more balance update before Capcom is done with SF4, but Capcom has stated that they are done with SF4 now so I shouldn't keep my hopes up.
yah, Capcom wants to keep both versions the same( arcade and home), a patch would ruin that parity. 
What would be great....

Is if the console AE let you switch between Super and Arcade for characters

So you could have a Super Honda play an Arcade Makoto.
#25 Posted by fenixREVOLUTION (735 posts) -

After getting MK, I'm bowing out of SF IV, it was fun for a while.

#26 Posted by FLStyle (5008 posts) -

I think Marvel 3 and MK was the death of AE, but that's just me. AE was old news on release.

#27 Posted by ricetopher (1046 posts) -
@FLStyle said:
I think Marvel 3 and MK was the death of AE, but that's just me. AE was old news on release.
LOL hardly dude. I don't care about AE at all but I can guarantee you that game is gonna get most entrants at EVO.
#28 Posted by Scooper (7881 posts) -

Yun's stronger than Vanilla Sagat but over-powered characters aren't that terrible for a game. I actually really enjoy going back and playing original SFIV because it feels more dangerous. More like SF2.


My only problem is because Yun is so powerful, we're going to see loads of them on streams and for me, Yun is one of the most boring characters to watch while on the other hand I really like watching the fireball spam of SFIV Sagat matches. I know most people will be the opposite.

I don't know what the DJ vs Yun matchup will be like as I haven't played it yet but I imagine it's going to be a huge pain in the ass since it'll be so easy to punish any baited reversal from DJ and Yun seems designed to bait the hell out of you.
#29 Posted by ArbitraryWater (12261 posts) -

At the level of play I'm at I don't really think it matters how powerful Yun is (then again, Vanilla Sagat was kind of ridiculous regardless of what level of play you were at.) I'm just going to enjoy the game for what it is and hope that not everyone will pick him online or on the tourney streams. I think I'll stick with Vega, despite the total lack of buffs (or nerfs for that matter, other than his Ultra 2 having a little more startup). In any case, powerful characters do not break the game unless they are broken themselves, and at that point they're banned anyways, like Super Turbo Akuma or any SNK boss character you care to name.

#30 Posted by FLStyle (5008 posts) -
@ricetopher said:
@FLStyle said:
I think Marvel 3 and MK was the death of AE, but that's just me. AE was old news on release.
LOL hardly dude. I don't care about AE at all but I can guarantee you that game is gonna get most entrants at EVO.
Of course it will, it's Street Fighter, but I suspect Marvel 3 and MK will be spoken about positively and AE won't.
#31 Posted by TechHits (1391 posts) -
@Doctorchimp said: 
What would be great....Is if the console AE let you switch between Super and Arcade for charactersSo you could have a Super Honda play an Arcade Makoto.
that kind of defeats the purpose of nerfing any of the characters...
#32 Posted by ricetopher (1046 posts) -
@FLStyle said:
@ricetopher said:
@FLStyle said:
I think Marvel 3 and MK was the death of AE, but that's just me. AE was old news on release.
LOL hardly dude. I don't care about AE at all but I can guarantee you that game is gonna get most entrants at EVO.
Of course it will, it's Street Fighter, but I suspect Marvel 3 and MK will be spoken about positively and AE won't.
I highly doubt that. MK needs a miracle to live past EVO because its not getting anywhere near the entrants that Capcom games do, and MVC3 is gonna need some serious changes before people start taking it more seriously (such as Level 3 X-Factor).

People like to hate on SF4 (myself at times included), but of the three games you listed I think SF4 lives the longest competitively, no contest. It's not a discussion I want to keep talking about but people who think one OP character is going to kill a game are out of their minds, MvC2 got played for over 10 years with mad imbalance and glitches.
#33 Posted by FLStyle (5008 posts) -
@ricetopher: Yeah, Yun has bad match-ups like everyone else. As for MK, was anyone expecting it to get SF numbers so early? The more people see it the more people will pick it up (I hope).

Just checking this week's EVO season tournament, Ultimate Fighting Game Tournament 7, SSF4 is on 144 entrants and MvC3 is 141 entrants so things are looking good for MvC3. MK is 71 which is about right for its popularity at the moment.
#34 Posted by jewunit (1065 posts) -
@GetEveryone:  I agree.  I beat a guy playing Yun with T. Hawk pretty handily at the local arcade.  Of course, he then chose T. Hawk as well and buried me.  The shear reach, air and anti-air options, and Ultra power of T. Hawk are hard to reckon with if you aren't prepared.

As for Yun, his power comes from his great combo potential.  If a player can consistently get into range, hit combos, and utilize his Super effectively, he or she will win.  You could say the same for most characters at high-level play though.  In the end, it comes down to who is playing the character.  A good player will best a scrub (i.e.- people at my skill level) regardless of the character picked.
#35 Posted by StaticFalconar (4850 posts) -
@FLStyle said:
@ricetopher said:
@FLStyle said:
I think Marvel 3 and MK was the death of AE, but that's just me. AE was old news on release.
LOL hardly dude. I don't care about AE at all but I can guarantee you that game is gonna get most entrants at EVO.
Of course it will, it's Street Fighter, but I suspect Marvel 3 and MK will be spoken about positively and AE won't.
So much speculative talk for a game that as far as the masses is concerned ain't even out. Only reason why nobody talks about AE now is because its only in these relic tombs called the arcades. 
#36 Posted by FLStyle (5008 posts) -
@StaticFalconar: Is that a problem? OP asked for opinions on the subject. Maybe you should reply to him instead of me if you've got a problem with this thread.
#37 Edited by StaticFalconar (4850 posts) -
@FLStyle: Nah, I just disagree with your statement. Thats my opinion, we're all keeping with the point of this thread. 
#38 Posted by FLStyle (5008 posts) -
@StaticFalconar: Didn't seem like you were disagreeing with my opinion. I thought you were disagreeing with what I was using to form my opinion. namely my "speculative talk" as you put it. To your point there are two things that needs pointing out. First of all there won't be any changes from the arcade version of Arcade Edition to the console version so anything to do with it now can be safely applied to when the console version is released. As for the masses I'll have to agree with the OP, the masses won't be relevant unless they're playing at a high enough level for it to matter. Again as OP mentioned the likes of Eventhubs, SRK, IPW etc. are the ones who this will matter to and that'll be through tournaments that have already been played with the arcade set-up.

Returning to the subject matter, do you have an opinion on whether Yun is the death of AE?
#39 Posted by 234r2we232 (3181 posts) -
@Giacomito said:
I cant wait for all the scrubs trying to play him online because they think he is easy mode
It would make a pleasant change from them all playing Ken, that's for sure.
#40 Posted by StaticFalconar (4850 posts) -
@FLStyle: Yes I do know there won't be any changes from AE as it is now to when its finally released on consoles. However, as much as these people that live near these arcades love to cry OP or not, I'm just going to trust the masses and training mode is going to be the missing puzzle piece. Yes I know Daigo and other regular tourney goers have their opinions that should be warrant being listened to, but there are tons of great players that for whatever reason just don't go to tournaments on a regular basis. Ed Ma comes to mind, he got 3rd at Evo for SF4 Vanilla, but then life caught up with him and he just simply doesn't go to tourney's as frequently anymore. So if you just give him the freedom of training mode and let him figure it out on his own time, who knows whats going to happen?

Guys like Ed Ma aside, All the Pros know they should never underestimate anyone, especially at Evo since its point is to get all fighting games fans to this one tournament. 

So not only am I hedging against Yun being as OP as people make him out to be, but even if he is, it won't break Ae. MVC2 and 3s boiled down to about 5 characters/teams that are viable for tournament play and people were getting hype over it til the very day their successors took over. 

Well, thats enough speculative talk from me........
#41 Posted by niamahai (1394 posts) -
really? i thought Evil-Ryu will be the new Ken for AE.

are they going to give Chun-Li her upwards spining kick? 
#42 Posted by leroyrockwell (48 posts) -
@niamahai: Chun has that. It's only in a combo. Back + MK. Down + MK and UP + MK in a combo and bam.  I use to launch into Ultra 2 (Kikosho) all the time. 
#43 Posted by Giacomito (208 posts) -
@sofacitysweetheart: you got that right, it's getting boring to walk forward - block shoryken - punish, rinse and repeat.
#44 Posted by ThePhantomnaut (6201 posts) -

Fei Long is the death.

#45 Posted by JJOR64 (19098 posts) -
@ThePhantomnaut said:
Fei Long is the death.
True that son.   :P
#46 Posted by SteakSushi (13 posts) -

What ever happened to learning the matchup and exploiting the characters weaknesses? It seems like everyone besides the Japanese players are complaining about Yun. Most of them think that Fei is the only S-tier character right now and they've been playing the game for months now. With that said, I believe that there's another rebalance in store for this year. Capcom probably just wants everyone to try out Yun/Yang unchanged from the arcade version before thinking about re-balancing.

#47 Edited by ThePhantomnaut (6201 posts) -

It's all about the player. 
  
I think rebalancing won't happen anytime soon unless they find a way to update the arcade units Japan without spending thousands on a new hard drive.

#48 Posted by scarace360 (4828 posts) -

Ive been playing alot of AE and hes not that bad he has no wake up. So just knock em down and go nuts.

#49 Posted by JJOR64 (19098 posts) -
@scarace360 said:
Ive been playing alot of AE and hes not that bad he has no wake up. So just knock em down and go nuts.
I heard his defense is ass while his offense is insane.
#50 Posted by scarace360 (4828 posts) -
@JJOR64 said:
@scarace360 said:
Ive been playing alot of AE and hes not that bad he has no wake up. So just knock em down and go nuts.
I heard his defense is ass while his offense is insane.
Ya from what ive played against JS and some other people he is one of fuertes best matchs. Which makes me happy.

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