The Ending (Obviously Spoilers)

#1 Posted by wewantsthering (1586 posts) -

So I just finished Syndicate. Overall I found the game to be a lot of fun, but I found the ending to be a little less than desirable. It also seemed very short for a full price game, although there is still the coop mode. The thing that seems the strangest to me is how interesting the story is in the middle, but it seems to just fall apart near the end. For the last hour or so it's just constant shooting from one room to the next. If they were building this to be a series, (major spoiler) why is there really only you and Lily Drawl that survived? In Half-Life 2, at least there was still Barney, Alyx, Dr. Kleiner, etc, to look forward to in a sequel. I'm interested in where this series goes. I just wish they created more memorable characters to bring me into a sequel because I like the universe they created.

#2 Edited by Zella (803 posts) -

I just hated how you turn into a good guy in the end without any input by the player. I loved playing as a genuine badass dick in a game for once but then it goes and kills your parents and makes you all righteous and shit. I'm sure canon wise it will make sense but I wish they at least gave you the option of staying as a company man even after finding out about your parents.

#3 Posted by wewantsthering (1586 posts) -

I agree that there should have been more player input. It would have been nice to have a good and bad guy option instead of just holding onto the rails and watching them take you from bad to good.

#4 Posted by Jackel2072 (2278 posts) -

i feel the same way. I just wanted to blow Rosario Dawson's brains out and not have to go through that horrible boss fight with Merit. 

#5 Posted by TheCrookedWarden (38 posts) -

If I wanted to play a game where I started out working for the evil corporation and switched sides halfway through, I could have played EVERY OTHER FUCKING SHOOTER. That trope is so bloody played.

During Cox's ending speech, I spent the whole time thinking "Yes, we could have totally kept rolling together and it would have been awesome."

Fucking Rosario Dawson.

#6 Posted by Sarumarine (2293 posts) -

The switch over would have been easier to handle if Miles Kilo had more personality... but at the same time, he's been turned into a corporate sponsored assassin with as much free will as a hunter killer drone from early childhood. Like Drawl said in the Downzone, she can use you anyway she wants just like everyone else. It might be a bit of a debate whether she gave Kilo the opportunity for free will, and once he found out what happened to his life decided revenge was still a human emotion not overwritten by EuroCorp policy. Or maybe she just used him in her drive to stomp out the influence of the major Syndicates.

But this is a lot of speculation. I agree that player choice would have been nice. From what I've heard of the original Syndicate, everyone was a bastard and the main goal of the game was to avoid getting caught at the bottom of the food chain. As an agent, there's not a whole lot of advancement opportunity considering you get replaced as soon as you die or become obsolete. Early on the in the story, I expected Merit was on his way out and wondered how he'd handle that. The guy obviously isn't a complete blank slate like Kilo, taking some joy in his rampages. An agent off the reservation doesn't have a whole lot of options. Maybe hang out in the Downzone with the rest of the people that don't matter.

#7 Posted by Vinny_Says (5721 posts) -

can you actually kill Lily because I hesitated and then she survived....what happens if you pull the trigger?

#8 Posted by N7 (3658 posts) -
@Vinny_Says said:

can you actually kill Lily because I hesitated and then she survived....what happens if you pull the trigger?

She kicks you in the face. I pulled the trigger IMMEDIATELY. As soon as I saw the prompt I was all "FUCK YEAH EUROCORP, oh wait what!! No!!!"
 
I was betrayed by the change up, but goddamn do I love the gameplay.
 
The sequel better start off with you killing that bitch and joining up with Aspari or something. I do not like being a rebellion fighter in the goddamn far-flung Ghost In The Shell future. If I wanted that, I would play literally every other shooter ever made. I want to be a total badass dick and go around killing people with my bro Merit. Oh wait, he's fucking dead because he's a loyal employee unlike Kilo's lame ass.
 
The switch was less anger inducing and more bummer inducing. Really depresses me that they would go so far to build up this story and these characters only to somehow turn everyone evil, even though they aren't really evil. I mean in any other story, the main guy behind EuroCorp would have wanted to kill you any way possible without any realization as to what is happening. In this game, he's all "Dude, look, we're sorry but you're a fucking badass! Stay with us and we can win this war together!"
 
And you don't. You fucking don't. You side up with some DUMB BITCH who's all "HAHA I'M ROSARIO DAWSON". Yeah? WELL FUCK YOU. I killed the shit out of your boyfriend. He was nothing but an arm after I got done with him. Fuck.
#9 Edited by WilltheMagicAsian (1547 posts) -

Yeah I agree, I wanted to blast that chick so hard. I was really hoping it would let me when she handed me the gun and walked away.

#10 Posted by Vinny_Says (5721 posts) -

@N7 said:

@Vinny_Says said:

can you actually kill Lily because I hesitated and then she survived....what happens if you pull the trigger?

She kicks you in the face. I pulled the trigger IMMEDIATELY. As soon as I saw the prompt I was all "FUCK YEAH EUROCORP, oh wait what!! No!!!"

I was betrayed by the change up, but goddamn do I love the gameplay.

The sequel better start off with you killing that bitch and joining up with Aspari or something. I do not like being a rebellion fighter in the goddamn far-flung Ghost In The Shell future. If I wanted that, I would play literally every other shooter ever made. I want to be a total badass dick and go around killing people with my bro Merit. Oh wait, he's fucking dead because he's a loyal employee unlike Kilo's lame ass. The switch was less anger inducing and more bummer inducing. Really depresses me that they would go so far to build up this story and these characters only to somehow turn everyone evil, even though they aren't really evil. I mean in any other story, the main guy behind EuroCorp would have wanted to kill you any way possible without any realization as to what is happening. In this game, he's all "Dude, look, we're sorry but you're a fucking badass! Stay with us and we can win this war together!" And you don't. You fucking don't. You side up with some DUMB BITCH who's all "HAHA I'M ROSARIO DAWSON". Yeah? WELL FUCK YOU. I killed the shit out of your boyfriend. He was nothing but an arm after I got done with him. Fuck.

Well it's more like I wasn't paying attention and forgot to pull the trigger, but yeah that bitch deserves to die for betraying me and trying to kill me. When I fought Merit I was kind of bummed out because I like him and his character. His gravely voice and his pre-disposition for murdering innocent people is something I can roll with, I'm sick of being the good guy all the time.

Also do they explain why eurocorp took you as a baby? That seemed hella random....

#11 Posted by N7 (3658 posts) -
@Vinny_Says: It's in the data logs I think. They say you showed great potential or something.
 
Which, you know what, I'm fine with. I'm a 19 year old with genetic advancement made to look 27 and I'm also a badass, but it's all ruined because now I'm living on the lower east side of stupid Downtrodden New York cuz i iz da guud gaaaai woohoooooo
#12 Edited by Tennmuerti (8172 posts) -

Syndicate is about the world. Individual characters are not that relevant. So who survives is imo unimportant.

Also you can look at Kilo 's change of allegiance from a different perspective. Say you actually go with the try to kill Dawson in the QTE. There is nothing really aside from that moment to indicate Kilo's true motivations. Just because he wants to take down CEO/Eurocorp doesn't suddenly mean he has a conscience. He could be doing it out of pure revenge for what they did to him as a child. TWB/Dawson just happen to be on his side in the last parts with the same goals. If Kilo is simply fuelled by revenge, he is not suddenly some goody 2 shoes guy. Hell you can even still murder civilians in the last stages in cold blood with you bare hands after the betrayal. (yes i know it's probably just a gameplay thing) But if you want to feel better about the ending that's how I choose to view it, Kilo is just out for good old fasioned vengence, nothing to do with morals.

#13 Posted by Getz (3140 posts) -

I kinda liked the nihilistic, Darwinian attitude of the game in it's first half. You've got this partner that just shoots civilians down without batting an eye and you're just supposed to go along with it because you're a tool. You're a tool used by Eurocorp, and then later on a tool used by Lily Drawl. Trying to create empathy with the player character by explaining his backstory was probably a mistake, since after that point you kind of expect him to have a personality or at the very least some kind of character arc, but it doesn't lead anywhere. It would have been better if he just remained silent and obedient and without agency, and then flesh out some of that theme with more dialogue from the other characters. Brian Cox's character touches on this somewhat, but it's only a couple lines near the end of the game and I kinda wished there was more of that.

#14 Edited by Mnemoidian (956 posts) -

The way Denham disappears reminded me a lot of the end of Typing of the Dead. Not sure if that's awesome or terrible.

I agree that the main flaw of the plot is Kilo's lack of... being someone, giving you no real reason to go against EuroCorp other than just going with the flow. Though, I guess, as a counter-argument, Drawl was the only character who seemed to not be extremely obvious about not giving a shit about you during the first chapters of the game.

I'm just glad Kilo got to beat Merit to a bloody pulp.

#15 Edited by BuzzBR (19 posts) -

Just beat the game. I love this sum'bitch.

The story is definitely the weakest link. It feels to me as if some serious cutting was done to the campaign, and they had to quickly stitch together the plot as best they could when they got the green light to finish it. The narrative flow is pretty rough in spots and some points feel condensed. For instance, when Kilo's made his shift in allegiance and he's strangled the doctor, he literally finds Merit being an asshole and Lily being tortured a quarter of the way around the circle. Convenient. Had Merit looked to his left, this game would've been even shorter. I even tried to catch up to him as he walked away. "Hey Merit, you fucking cheesedick! That's no way to treat a lady." And the ending, like Jeff says in his review, is a little too tidy. You've been overloaded by Denham, you're bleeding on the floor. The DART 6 may or may not be fried. But by God, if you pound that X button, you'll pull through. It literally becomes "hammer X to win". And Denham just jumps off? "I say, that didn't kill you? Good show, old man. But you see, I'm far too spindly and British to fight you so, off I go, I suppose. Toodle-pip!" Cue Lily, cue bad-ass gun cock, cue Skrillex (fuck yeah), cue credits. Drama, resonance, and plot structure took a back seat.

Don't get me wrong, though. Considering what this game no doubt went through on its long road to my hard drive, Starbreeze did a very impressive job. It even makes it kind of more rad in the sense that it's playing with your expectations. This is an emotionless world, and Kilo is an emotionless character. He is only now finding out why killing people sucks. It makes sense that the first time he feels horror over the death of a human being (his parents, no less), he would see it from someone else's perspective, as if it was someone else's trauma. It makes sense that the first time he kills someone he knows (Merit), we see him from a third-person perspective, as he is now, for the first and only time, as if he's seeing someone else do it. And it makes sense that he'd feel bad about it, even if the guy was a shithead mass-murderer. But still, it feels to me like this stuff was supposed to be fleshed out more. Intentional or not, it leaves a little room for interpretation, and I like that. That a game so committed to the first-person perspective makes Kilo voiceless and virtually devoid of personality says something about the world he inhabits and the role he plays in it. Rough spots and contrivances in the plot aside, the story is still reflexive of that world.

All that said, the gameplay is where it's at, and it's pitch-fucking-perfect. Jeff pretty much sums up my feelings on it.

This and The Darkness II have been incredible and welcome surprises for me, and I couldn't be happier that 2012 is off to such a great start.

#16 Posted by mosdl (3243 posts) -

@Vinny_Says said:

And trying to kill me. When I fought Merit I was kind of bummed out because I like him and his character. His gravely voice and his pre-disposition for murdering innocent people is something I can roll with, I'm sick of being the good guy all the time.

Also do they explain why eurocorp took you as a baby? That seemed hella random....

The logs tell the story of how DNA checks were done to find candidates for the program and you were one of them.

Starbreeze has said they didn't have as much time as they wanted on the game, which explains a lot. They got the gameplay right and probably didn't have the time to work on the story.

#17 Posted by Brodehouse (10107 posts) -

Maybe I'm not as hardcore as you guys, but I didn't want to stay allied to Eurocorp and I wanted to kill Merit as soon as he started plugging all those people on the train.  The scene where Lily has the gun on you and you can disarm her, I just sat back because I just wanted to know what the F was going on and then Dart said "What are you doing, Kilo?" and it felt like it was one of those rare Half-Life/BioShock first person moments.
 
I like morally ambiguous characters if it serves a point, or is dramatically appropriate.  The kind of Fallout/Fable moustache-twirling evil-because-it's-fun makes me tune out immediately.  They might as well just write "this isn't worth paying attention to" and I can continue my day.
 
Still, ending is kind of weird.  I did like the corridor crawl while your brain is being fried.  It's inspired me to play through Metal Gear Solid 4 again before Mass Effect 3 comes out.

#18 Posted by Woodroez (346 posts) -

I want some clarification on the ending. So Lily tells you that the two of you are hooked up to a killswitch that Denham can hit. So you make it past Merit and then you're made to believe that he did hit that switch. You get back up, Denham takes a dive, and Lily says she was lying.

Where exactly was that lie? Had she made the killswitch non-lethal at some point?

#19 Posted by Flaboere (344 posts) -

One thing I maybe missed; when I cought up to Lily, I pulled the trigger. However, Merit calls me a motherfucker, and tells me I fucked up. I'm sure I missed something, because one moment I'm ordered to bring Lily back, the next I'm being executed. What did I do wrong?

#20 Posted by AlKusanagi (965 posts) -

I was so pissed off at the end when she was like "It's your choice now," and the game didn't give me back control and let me put a round into the back of her head.

#21 Posted by WalkerTR77 (1390 posts) -

@AlKusanagi: I was slamming the right trigger so hard trying to execute her.

#22 Posted by Brodehouse (10107 posts) -
@Flaboere said:

One thing I maybe missed; when I cought up to Lily, I pulled the trigger. However, Merit calls me a motherfucker, and tells me I fucked up. I'm sure I missed something, because one moment I'm ordered to bring Lily back, the next I'm being executed. What did I do wrong?

Remember these are completely ruthless Syndicates, and you are Lily Drawl's first and only applicant for Dart 6.  They have no idea what she's put in your chip or how it might affect your loyalty, and they're not going to be nice guys, hold off judgement, and treat you like anything more than a failed project.  Merit says you fucked up solely because you are connected to Lily Drawl and that's reason enough for them.  I bet Calico would've been terminated soon enough if you hadn't have done that job for them.
 
It appears people really enjoy hanging out with the evil, unscrupulous characters until they're not on the good end of it.
#23 Posted by Flaboere (344 posts) -

@Brodehouse said:

@Flaboere said:

One thing I maybe missed; when I cought up to Lily, I pulled the trigger. However, Merit calls me a motherfucker, and tells me I fucked up. I'm sure I missed something, because one moment I'm ordered to bring Lily back, the next I'm being executed. What did I do wrong?

Remember these are completely ruthless Syndicates, and you are Lily Drawl's first and only applicant for Dart 6. They have no idea what she's put in your chip or how it might affect your loyalty, and they're not going to be nice guys, hold off judgement, and treat you like anything more than a failed project. Merit says you fucked up solely because you are connected to Lily Drawl and that's reason enough for them. I bet Calico would've been terminated soon enough if you hadn't have done that job for them. It appears people really enjoy hanging out with the evil, unscrupulous characters until they're not on the good end of it.

Still, it more or less went:

Go do this mission, which is spy on Lily.

New mission: get Lily back.

You get Lily back.

Merit: You fucked up

Or did I miss something, hinting that they didn't like me or something?

#24 Posted by Tennmuerti (8172 posts) -

@Flaboere said:

@Brodehouse said:

@Flaboere said:

One thing I maybe missed; when I cought up to Lily, I pulled the trigger. However, Merit calls me a motherfucker, and tells me I fucked up. I'm sure I missed something, because one moment I'm ordered to bring Lily back, the next I'm being executed. What did I do wrong?

Remember these are completely ruthless Syndicates, and you are Lily Drawl's first and only applicant for Dart 6. They have no idea what she's put in your chip or how it might affect your loyalty, and they're not going to be nice guys, hold off judgement, and treat you like anything more than a failed project. Merit says you fucked up solely because you are connected to Lily Drawl and that's reason enough for them. I bet Calico would've been terminated soon enough if you hadn't have done that job for them. It appears people really enjoy hanging out with the evil, unscrupulous characters until they're not on the good end of it.

Still, it more or less went:

Go do this mission, which is spy on Lily.

New mission: get Lily back.

You get Lily back.

Merit: You fucked up

Or did I miss something, hinting that they didn't like me or something?

You missed the part where after she betrayed you they (eurocorp) changed your mission parameters to straight up: "Terminate Lily".

Which you fail.

#25 Posted by Flaboere (344 posts) -

@Tennmuerti said:

@Flaboere said:

@Brodehouse said:

@Flaboere said:

One thing I maybe missed; when I cought up to Lily, I pulled the trigger. However, Merit calls me a motherfucker, and tells me I fucked up. I'm sure I missed something, because one moment I'm ordered to bring Lily back, the next I'm being executed. What did I do wrong?

Remember these are completely ruthless Syndicates, and you are Lily Drawl's first and only applicant for Dart 6. They have no idea what she's put in your chip or how it might affect your loyalty, and they're not going to be nice guys, hold off judgement, and treat you like anything more than a failed project. Merit says you fucked up solely because you are connected to Lily Drawl and that's reason enough for them. I bet Calico would've been terminated soon enough if you hadn't have done that job for them. It appears people really enjoy hanging out with the evil, unscrupulous characters until they're not on the good end of it.

Still, it more or less went:

Go do this mission, which is spy on Lily.

New mission: get Lily back.

You get Lily back.

Merit: You fucked up

Or did I miss something, hinting that they didn't like me or something?

You missed the part where after she betrayed you they (eurocorp) changed your mission parameters to straight up: "Terminate Lily".

Which you fail.

Ah. Yes. Guess I didn't listen close enough. Still... I didn't REALLY fail. I did kill her, only it didn't work. I still think it's a little far fetched.

#26 Posted by Brodehouse (10107 posts) -
@Flaboere: What I'm saying is it goes like this.
 
Lily designed and installed your chip.
 
Lily fucked up.
 
Ergo, you fucked up.
 
 
They're not being reasonable.  They're being Syndicates.  They terminate people for less.
#27 Edited by Tennmuerti (8172 posts) -

By the way you are not even really being executed, Eurocorp was just going to basically do a "load last known good configuration" on your ass. They aren't even betraying you, from their perspective you were a faulty model after the DART 6 upgrade, they were going to try to "salvage" you. From your perspective your personality/brain/memory might get fucked up, but lets face it they already do this on a regular basis to all the recruits.

#28 Posted by Flaboere (344 posts) -

Yeah, I guess it makes sense. I don't know, I still feel like they designed that whole thing ("you motherfucker, you fucked up"-speech) to you NOT shooting Lily, and not the other option.

#29 Posted by Rekt_Hed (850 posts) -

All things considered I think the ending is fine. I've definitely experienced worse or more open ended endings to other games without naming names.

There is just enough story to keep things moving and if you really want to know all the ins and outs then you can read some txt which was the right way to do it as Starbreeze said they didn't have all the time they needed to work it into the game properly.

#30 Posted by Ethan_Raiden (344 posts) -

Why did the guy jump off the building at the end?

#31 Posted by Azteck (7449 posts) -

The amount of people who wanted to off Lily is kind of bothering me personally

#32 Posted by Tennmuerti (8172 posts) -
@Ethan_Raiden said:
Why did the guy jump off the building at the end?
Because you were about to kill him, probably very painfully with a posibility for it being slow. He chose the death that guaranteed him a quick end.

@Azteck said:
The amount of people who wanted to off Lily is kind of bothering me personally
She used you. At that point in the game Kilo is pretty much on a vengence path to destroy those who used him all his life. And at the moment when you run out of targets here is Lilly admiting she used you, lied to you just like the rest. Characters/Our anger naturally transfers on her.
#33 Posted by kerse (2118 posts) -

I thought Merit was kinda awesome and was sad I had to kill him : / they really shoulda branched it there and let you stay with Eurocorp or the ending that we got.

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