Team Fortress 2 Update 7/29/08

#1 Posted by Miniman (59 posts) -

Valve just released an update to Team Fortress 2 containing the following.

  • Fixed team switches on Attack/Defense maps spamming the console
  • Fixed the Kritzkrieg not working on servers with crits turned off
  • Fixed some clipped localized strings in various in-game dialogs
  • Fixed several cases where files were synchronously loaded while the game was running
  • Fixed a shutdown crash in the material system
  • Cached rendering of item model panels to improve performance, in particular while weapon selection was visible
  • Added a gear symbol behind the health bar for Engineer buildings, in both target IDs and freeze panels
  • Players killing themselves will now give a kill credit to the last enemy who damaged them
  • Fixed grenades, rockets, and flamethrower being able to fire through grates at round starts
  • Fixed players being killed and creating ragdolls during team switches
  • Fixed various exploits and performance problems in CP_Badlands, CP_Well, and CP_Fastlane
  • Removed health bonus from the Backburner

I think its safe to say that I can return to playing the Pyro without being called overpowered, cheers Valve! Oh and if you didn't already know Valve listened to some ideas from the 1fort blog.

Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4

I personally think it's a great update and that Valve are doing a great job by listening to the community.

#2 Posted by Psynapse (1064 posts) -

Ooo interesting... Hopefully we get the heavy pack soon :P. Its going to be hella funny when there are 8 heavies on each team!

#3 Posted by twenty0ne (3071 posts) -

Do people still play this game (on the 360)?

#4 Posted by AaronBelfast (1491 posts) -
twenty0ne said:
"Do people still play this game (on the 360)?
"
I suppose, but you do realise it's only the PC version thats getting the update right?
#5 Posted by Osmiles (196 posts) -

I just played around a little and the old flamethrower seems to be more useful than the backburner now.

#6 Posted by xruntime (1920 posts) -
twenty0ne said:
"Do people still play this game (on the 360)?
"
Not really.

But on PC, a lot of people play. Myself included.

This update fixes everything that may have been broken with Team Fortress 2. Good work, Valve.
#7 Posted by _blank (51 posts) -

thank god they got rid of the health bonus off the backburning. Pyro vs Pyro wont be as bad now

#8 Posted by BlackWaterCO (1574 posts) -

I wish I liked that game

I have the orange box but everytime i play TF2 I just get bored...

I hope CS2 is coming out though from Valve

#9 Posted by Vafthrutnir (120 posts) -

Players killing themselves will now give a kill credit to the last enemy who damaged them....that's the only thing I don't like, but I guess its for the people who kill themselves since they don't want someone to get a point, accidents happen a lot with me.

#10 Posted by Kraker2k (8 posts) -

I guess I don't really have a reason to play the Backburner any more. I rarely used the flare gun and now I'll rarely use the backburner. Lame.

#11 Posted by Hamz (6846 posts) -

Yeah they need to review the Pyro class now. The BackBurner is next to useless and Pyro's are now a squishy class again. See my topic here in the Pyro section of the Wiki for my thoughts on this recent update.

#12 Posted by Demilich (2599 posts) -

I'm very happy with the Pyro nerf. Pyro is one of my mains and the Backburner was pretty shitty, but I couldn't give it up because of the health bonus. Now there's no question. None of the new Pyro weapons are viable anymore.

Really, I do think that's a good thing. Plus I can kill all Pyros with one bullet in the head again.

#13 Posted by xruntime (1920 posts) -

Demilich, that's pretty naive. The axtinguisher is definitely far more useful than the original axe, and for some people the flare gun is better because it has long range benefits.

#14 Edited by Demilich (2599 posts) -

How can it be naive if I've tested all of them to their maximum extent?

The Axtinguisher forfeits the biggest part of a melee weapon. Surprise. The moment you light someone on fire they focus entirely on you making the kill even harder, not to mention you waste time switching weapons.

And the Flare gun is only better for noobs. I cannot stress that enough. A good Pyro will use his shotgun the moment his target leaves range.

And you can't debate that the Backburner is better still.


But when I read back, I somewhat agree with you about the Axe. The Axtinguisher is viable, but 3 close range weapons usually means you won't ever have to use it. Pretty much for kicks only.

#15 Posted by Demilich (2599 posts) -
Miniman said:
"A good Pyro will master the flare gun. The shotgun is overpowered so therefore you are a noob for using it.
"
My logic is logic therefore correctness is a word once spoken by Greece in effect rendering your argument just plain silly now and yesterday at 12:81pm.
#16 Posted by myzticaznfool (58 posts) -

good for them for removing health bonus on the backburner, didnt see why they had to add it, the backburner itself is good enough of an upgrade.

#17 Posted by _blank (51 posts) -
Miniman said:
"A good Pyro will master the flare gun. The shotgun is overpowered so therefore you are a noob for using it.
"
In th end though id rather be called a noob and get kills than waste my time learning how to use a weak thing like the flare gun.
#18 Posted by McDazzle (544 posts) -
twenty0ne said:
"Do people still play this game (on the 360)?
"
Yeah
#19 Posted by Demilich (2599 posts) -
_blank said:
"Miniman said:
"A good Pyro will master the flare gun. The shotgun is overpowered so therefore you are a noob for using it.
"
In th end though id rather be called a noob and get kills than waste my time learning how to use a weak thing like the flare gun.
"
You're not a noob for using the shotgun. He just made a completely irrelevant and stupid post.
#20 Posted by MikeydCT (565 posts) -

updates for the 360 will never come will they?

#21 Posted by Hamz (6846 posts) -

The problem is that the Pyro is, in Valve's eyes, mean't to be a stealth and ambush class. In theory thats awesome but in practice it just doesn't work out because the very nature of TF2 is utter chaos, its not like other FPS style games where you can lay in wait and camp. Because its a constantly energy filled game where people just go crazy and charge around like a bull in a china shop.

The fact Pyro's need to get very close, dangerously close, to their targets means we can't ambush well at all because the moment you set a target on fire your the focus of their attention and the Pyro with 175hp doesn't take that many hits before he dies. Atleast with the 225hp we could get close to a target and stand the chance of taking a few hits but living long enough to do some serious damage, even if we die it was guaranteed the burning effect would kill a target.

What we could really do with is having the Pyro's base health boosted to 200 and raise the Soldier's to 225 and imrpove the hit detection for the backburner. That way its a little more useful compared to the default flamethrower now and Pyro's stand a slightly better chance of surviving long enough to be effective against targets when a head on fight occurs or if we do have to get dangerously close to a target.

#22 Posted by Demilich (2599 posts) -
Hamz said:
"The problem is that the Pyro is, in Valve's eyes, mean't to be a stealth and ambush class. In theory thats awesome but in practice it just doesn't work out because the very nature of TF2 is utter chaos, its not like other FPS style games where you can lay in wait and camp. Because its a constantly energy filled game where people just go crazy and charge around like a bull in a china shop.

The fact Pyro's need to get very close, dangerously close, to their targets means we can't ambush well at all because the moment you set a target on fire your the focus of their attention and the Pyro with 175hp doesn't take that many hits before he dies. Atleast with the 225hp we could get close to a target and stand the chance of taking a few hits but living long enough to do some serious damage, even if we die it was guaranteed the burning effect would kill a target.

What we could really do with is having the Pyro's base health boosted to 200 and raise the Soldier's to 225 and imrpove the hit detection for the backburner. That way its a little more useful compared to the default flamethrower now and Pyro's stand a slightly better chance of surviving long enough to be effective against targets when a head on fight occurs or if we do have to get dangerously close to a target.
"
You're thinking too much. I'll boil it down:

1. Pyro can get kills easily after the nerf.
2. Pyro could get kills easily before the buff.
3. Pyro is not for head on combat (As you have said). Therefore if the Pyro gets 225hp, the Spy should get 400hp.
4. Pyro is fine.
#23 Posted by Hamz (6846 posts) -
Demilich said:
You're thinking too much. I'll boil it down:

1. Pyro can get kills easily after the nerf.
2. Pyro could get kills easily before the buff.
3. Pyro is not for head on combat (As you have said). Therefore if the Pyro gets 225hp, the Spy should get 400hp.
4. Pyro is fine.
"
1.) Not easily but the "leaf blower" is handy at helping, but still not very easy.
2.) I disagree before the buff there would be 3 pyros in a server at most, why? they weren't all that good.
3.) The Pyro is essentially a supporting offensive class but even then the very fact the main weapon has a short range means no matter what fight you get into it ALWAYS turns into head on combat.

You're comparison between the Spy and Pyro really makes no sense. Giving the Pyro a health buff to 200 would just allow it a little more survivability considering the fact Pyro's have got to get within dangerous distances to deal damage. Genuinely though my biggest question is what will Valve do to the Backburner now? its essentially broken since the hit detection for criticals is bugged and the "leaf blower" is just a lot more useful which means the Backburner is somewhat pointless at the moment. I'd much prefer Valve increase the burning duration when you ignite players with the BB, that way you could choose between the more damaging (offensive) BB or the utility "Leaf Blower" which is useful to the team as a whole.
#24 Edited by Demilich (2599 posts) -

1. Yes easily. Just get better.
2. Yes, easily again. Get better.
3. The Pyro is a flanking offensive class. Like you said, you're not meant for head on combat so why do you need so much health? You light people on fire, and run away at the nearest corner.

And my comparison shows how flawed your logic is. You think the Pyro needs more health because he's fragile and needs to get close to his opponents? The Spy needs to get closer and has even less health.

The Pyro is fine. Just admit you got used to being a tank and enjoy living longer. I'm going to go out on a limb and say Valve know what they're doing better than you do.

#25 Posted by Demilich (2599 posts) -
Miniman said:
"Demilich said:
"_blank said:
"Miniman said:
"A good Pyro will master the flare gun. The shotgun is overpowered so therefore you are a noob for using it.
"
In th end though id rather be called a noob and get kills than waste my time learning how to use a weak thing like the flare gun.
"
You're not a noob for using the shotgun. He just made a completely irrelevant and stupid post.
"
Meh, I would rather have a more satisfying kill then use the easy method.
"
Then play medic and only use the syringe gun and never pick up ammo or health. Your logic is so fucking flawed. I'd understand where you're coming from if the shotgun was overpowered, but it's not. You're an idiot for being so stubborn and you deserve every death you get because you missed with your precious flare gun.
#26 Posted by pause422 (6187 posts) -

Yeah trust me,360 is dead to TF2 really. My steam locked up permanently a while back,all the text is gone to anything in the program and just doesn't work,my computer being old and slowly dying and kill programs is the reason.

So when I felt like playing more after I heard of all these updates(even though I could only get them on PC) I figured I'd try a 360 version just to get my TF2 fix.

There's on average 3 servers up. But if you want to play with friends you gotta start your own,then wait like 15 minutes+ to get anyone to join and stay there(or that just won't happen)


Can't wait to get my new PC built soon though,really been wanting to check out these updates because I have yet to see a single one.

#27 Posted by xplodedd (1316 posts) -

the 360 is dead for tf2

#28 Posted by Demilich (2599 posts) -
Miniman said:
"Well ok then. The shotgun isn't necessarily overpowered but it has a huge advantage over some classes especially the 125hp classes.
"
That's part of my point. What wouldn't have a huge advantage over the Flare Gun? If you're so obsessed with playing hard mode, choosing Pyro is in itself a contradiction.
#29 Posted by xruntime (1920 posts) -

Flare gun does have its uses. When you're in the shotgun's effective range most of the time it is better to use your flamethrower.

#30 Posted by Demilich (2599 posts) -
xruntime said:
"Flare gun does have its uses. When you're in the shotgun's effective range most of the time it is better to use your flamethrower.
"
You're not very good at Pyro are you?
#31 Posted by xruntime (1920 posts) -
Demilich said:
"xruntime said:
"Flare gun does have its uses. When you're in the shotgun's effective range most of the time it is better to use your flamethrower.
"
You're not very good at Pyro are you?
"
What a patronizing tone! Look buddy, instead of saying I suck, why don't you point out what was wrong with what I said?

This is what ticks me off about the internet. People just resort to insults instead of good reasoning.
#32 Posted by Demilich (2599 posts) -
"When you're in the shotgun's effective range most of the time it is better to use your flamethrower"

My point was how incredibly false that was. True could be said if you replace Shotgun and Flamethrower with Flamethrower and Axe, but the Shotgun is effective up to to 50-70 meters. You'd know that if you were good enough.
#33 Posted by McDazzle (544 posts) -

I love the shotgun..I do find that most pyros are terrible with it though.

#34 Posted by WilliamRLBaker (4777 posts) -

yeah 360 is dead for tf2 its way to easy to exploit engineers turrets and just own maps I've seen so many maps where the engineer just owns every one.

#35 Posted by xruntime (1920 posts) -
WilliamRLBaker said:
"yeah 360 is dead for tf2 its way to easy to exploit engineers turrets and just own maps I've seen so many maps where the engineer just owns every one.
"
Dont they have admins?
#36 Posted by RHCPfan24 (8609 posts) -

Thanks for the details.

#37 Edited by xruntime (1920 posts) -
Demilich said:
""When you're in the shotgun's effective range most of the time it is better to use your flamethrower"

My point was how incredibly false that was. True could be said if you replace Shotgun and Flamethrower with Flamethrower and Axe, but the Shotgun is effective up to to 50-70 meters. You'd know that if you were good enough.
"
I haven't the slightest idea what 50-70 meters is in-game, but these are several good pyro flare gun scenarios:

1) You attack a nearby demoman with your flamethrower. He's low on health, so he retreats across the bridge back to his base to find a medic or a medkit. After dealing with another enemy, he's already across the bridge, so any use of the shotgun (which is a close-range weapon) would not take substantial damage. So you use the flare gun, which takes off 50 damage plus impact, and this finishes the demoman off before he can get health.

2) It's common to see in frag videos a technique where instead of flaming with the flamethrower and subsequently using the axtinguisher, one will use the flare gun and axtinguisher. You can light the person on fire before reaching him, and this is good because when you're in the flamethrower range you're also in the axe range - it's a waste of time to have to be near him (where his weapons are the deadliest too) for more than necessary. You light a person from far away, move in, and then axe. I'm not certain about this, but I believe its also faster to switch from flare gun to axtinguisher than from the flamethrower.

3) It's good for thwarting snipers, especially those that have taken prior damage. You can finish off many.

4) And, as exemplified in (1), at longer distances it's generally more effective to use a flare gun instead of the close-range shotgun.

Look, the common sign of a bad debater is one who attacks the person, not the subject. You can't just assume even if I was wrong that I'm a bad pyro because of that. And even if you had certain evidence that I was a bad pyro - that is irrelevant to the discussion and should not be brought up.

It's called the ad hominem logical fallacy. Ad hominem is Latin for "argument against the man".
#38 Posted by Demilich (2599 posts) -

Have you forgotten where we are?

You're not going to win this, I'm not going to win this. Instead I'll keep using my shotgun, getting easy kills. While you miss repeatedly with your flare gun. Enjoy the meager damage it does only to have your enemies run for a health pack or a medic.

#39 Posted by Snail (8606 posts) -

Great updates. I was starting to think TF2 was getting stupid, it was to easy to play the pyro and stuff.

#40 Posted by xruntime (1920 posts) -
Demilich said:
"Have you forgotten where we are?

You're not going to win this, I'm not going to win this. Instead I'll keep using my shotgun, getting easy kills. While you miss repeatedly with your flare gun. Enjoy the meager damage it does only to have your enemies run for a health pack or a medic.
"
As you wish
#41 Edited by DanCarmichael (220 posts) -

I don't get why people now recon that without the added health boost the BackBurner is now underpowered and weak. The very fact that you can do critical hits to the back automatically makes a much more powerful offensive weapon.

Even in a typical duel, say soldier vs pyro I can run around and get a good couple of critical hits that I couldnt with the standard flamethrower.

That's not to say I think the old flamethrower is underpowered now. The air balst does have its occasional uses but at the moment it's a feature im willing to sacrafice.

#42 Posted by ZombieJesus (231 posts) -

Anyone know  if and when these updates are coming to the 360

#43 Edited by DanCarmichael (220 posts) -

I lost track. Last time I heard valve where trying to connive Microsoft to offer this content for free.

I don't see it happening. Do yourself a favor and just buy the PC version. Best purchase you will ever make.

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