You Should Read This Rant By a Tekken Producer

#101 Posted by Damian (1538 posts) -

@Ghostin: Gaming and internet grew up beside each other. We can't separate them now. Asking for that ain't much different from asking for a for all the junk Harada's pointing out as unreasonable to his fans.

I don't think Harada's thinking it will stop unreasonable or childish comments outright. He's just trying to explain how it works to people who are clearly ignorant of it. It's all he can do.

That said, I don't entirely disagree. He might have done a greater service to Tekken and its fans by releasing this information in a more professional (or maybe even entertaining) way. But hey. Sometimes people snap to hasty reactions... which is kind of the whole issue.

Meh. There's no right or wrong here. But I'm glad to hear a dev break it down like this now and again. And I'm definitely glad my hobby/medium-of-choice is one where I can easily interact with the people who create it. Sure, when us gamers piss and moan we are a very unpleasant bunch, and some devs can be over-reactionary, but I'm fairly certain gaming is (mostly) better for all that interaction.

#102 Posted by Rox360 (1064 posts) -

@Ghostin said:

@AngelN7: Rant was used simply to mirror the headline. I feel the same about nearly all commentary by any developer, they should do their talking with their games.

I'm sorry, but that's insane. Open communication is one of the most important things this age of computing has brought us. If fans or customers want to know more about a product, they should have the right to ask. If the developer wants to explain, they should have the right to speak. The fact that it's possible to do on such a personal level like this is incredibly precious to everyone involved. You'd be a fool to want to take that away.

#103 Posted by AngelN7 (2970 posts) -

@Ghostin said:

@AngelN7: Rant was used simply to mirror the headline. I feel the same about nearly all commentary by any developer, they should do their talking with their games.

So should do fans , don't like it? don't buy it , let the actual 'fans' make demands and provide feedback that make for a better game instead of listening to the very vocal minority who only care about their sometimes insane preferences.

#104 Posted by wilhelmina (2 posts) -

I am so glad this wasn't paraphrased and I don't see anything wrong with his outburst. Fans who are often the minority make too many entitled demands.

#105 Posted by Fattony12000 (7464 posts) -
#106 Posted by honeycut1 (142 posts) -

Bravo!

#107 Posted by TPoppaPuff (255 posts) -

Harada is absolutely right. These "fans" he speaks of need to quit being jackasses. The voices were dreadfully shitty and clearly that comunity or subset doesn't get it, but it's the GAMEPLAY that matters, not voices.

@cikame said:

Also, "Tekken may be less relevant these days", go bury yourself. Judging by your reaction every time Tekken is brought up i'm almost sure you posted this 'news' with ill intent Patrick.

Tekken was the most popular fighting series of the late 90s or at least irrefutably on the PlayStation. Now it is like the 4th most relevent at best? Certainly well behind Street Fighter, MK, and Soul Calibur.

Maybe you should go bury yourself...

#108 Posted by chrissedoff (2116 posts) -

If you care about voice acting in a Tekken game, you're weird. I don't even feel bad saying it.

#109 Posted by HarlechQuinn (449 posts) -

Was expecting something different after reading the headline... But this was a well put explanation of reasons for not using/being able to recreate certain voice data.

...And kudos for Harada's last line!

#110 Posted by Jimbo (9820 posts) -

So... that's a 'no' on the voices then?
 
I think it's cute when people in the industry sound off at/about their customers - it just makes it easier to buy less games. Not that I was buying Tekken anyway, of course.

#111 Posted by PerfidiousSinn (749 posts) -
#112 Posted by GERALTITUDE (3351 posts) -

Good read, learned a little bit about development from Harada (amazing he was Forest and Marshal too).

I do think there is something specific to the Mass Effect DLC that we haven't really talked about enough. There have been lots of irrelevant comparisons made to film and television and lots said about fan entitlement usurping artistic integrity, but there is a positive way to consider the whole event. Games often have "bad" or unsatisfying ending, I'd say it's a natural difficulty of the medium. The fact that the ME3 ending drew the kind of reaction it did is largely due to the nature of its design. In a sense the Mass Effect games are just tools for players to build their own stories with. Obviously this is the "High Concept" and in practice it's more closed off than that, but, in any case: there was such a breakdown of this concept in ME3. Many people felt that the decisions they made throughout the series were not well realized in the end. This is super important! You can't feel this way about a book or a movie. The identity of a game like Mass Effect does not belong to Casey Hudson or any one writer at BioWare, no matter how hard they or EA try to market it as X: the game speaks for itself, which in turn means every player speaks for it. The artistic integrity of a game =/ artistic integrity of a book (which generally and foolishly means preserving the first printing, regardless of what the author intended, publication circumstances, etc, etc). Should the ending have been more comprehensive in the first place? Yes. Should EA not have have diluted the franchise with freemium multiplayer and tie-ins? Yes. Does changing "but not changing" the ending destroy the integrity of video games and slot them lower than all that high class bullshit everybody supposedly loves so much like Hollywood movies and page-turning garbage from the grocery store? No. Games aren't like anything else out there. They shouldn't be measured the same way. This DLC is a glorified patch. Software gets patched. Why? To fix bugs and respond to user experience. And that is art. To quote: You affect me, I affect you.

End rant.

#113 Posted by Throat (46 posts) -

"I believe that, before whining and complaining about everything, you need practice at taking a step back and analyzing things objectively. And also at being an adult."

lulz

#114 Posted by RebornLS (29 posts) -

Itagaki laughs...(thumbs upward)

#115 Posted by sub_o (902 posts) -

Does this only happen in gaming industry ? Or have customers become more and more entitled these days ? Sounds like more spoilt kids nowadays.

#116 Posted by AlisterCat (5593 posts) -

Totally support what this man is saying.

Online
#117 Posted by GERALTITUDE (3351 posts) -

@Ghostin: Seems hard to believe you give a shit about games if you don't care what the people making them have to say. Your statement that they should talk via their games is laughably naive in regards to how games work and how many people are responsible for any one game. Everybody who creates anything, whether it's a game, blog, book, movie or song has feelings about it, and sometimes they want to share those feelings, whether they are positive or not.

What are you doing here anyway? What do you want from Giantbomb? Press releases? CG trailers? Seriously, if you don't want to hear what developers think than that must kill, what, 50% of the content on this site? I come here to get real news and find out what's going on in the heads of the people who make and enjoy the things I love. Why do you come here?

#118 Posted by Y2Ken (1158 posts) -

I have absolutely no problems whatsoever with this. The man made a reasonable argument and did so clearly and concisely, covering pretty much every angle he could think of. Good on him. Also thanks for posting this Patrick, I enjoyed reading it and hadn't come across it until now.

#119 Posted by Humanity (9385 posts) -

@Jimbo said:

So... that's a 'no' on the voices then? I think it's cute when people in the industry sound off at/about their customers - it just makes it easier to buy less games. Not that I was buying Tekken anyway, of course.

What? Are you kidding or.. ? What?

#120 Posted by cannonballBAM (603 posts) -

@RebornLS said:

Itagaki laughs...(thumbs upward)

Than he gets fired.

#121 Posted by Tarsier (1065 posts) -

its tekken lol who gives a dang

#122 Posted by jakob187 (21676 posts) -

This man deserves a fucking Nobel Peace Prize. Well done on his part.

#123 Posted by Xymox (2088 posts) -

Man, I didn't know tekken fans were so anal about stuff. Seriously. They actually ask for tekken 3 bitrates on voices? Must be a pretty fun hole to live in.

"I will be quite surprised if there are still people who still don't get it."

I will be quite surprised if people do...

#124 Posted by Irvandus (2880 posts) -

I like this guy.

#125 Posted by Nadafinga (958 posts) -

There's something beautiful about telling your moronic vocal fans to shut the fuck up.

#126 Posted by matti00 (668 posts) -

Right on, dude. I'd be pissed off if I was him too.

#127 Posted by Sil3n7 (1189 posts) -

Wait. People care about Tekken?

People care about voice acting in Tekken?

Whatever.

#128 Posted by Rxanadu (508 posts) -
@PerfidiousSinn said:

Atlus should respond to people complaining about voice changes in Persona 4: Arena and Persona 4: Golden in a similar manner.

Hell, I'm surprised the actual voice actors haven't had this sort of rant on Twitter yet.  Could you imagine Chie's original VA just saying, "After all the shit I got for people complaining about my voice in the original, NOW you want me back?  Fuck off!"
#129 Posted by DanteFaustEsq (109 posts) -

@mrfluke: Justified? Are you kidding me video game story arc justification is just another word for fan entitlement. I'm constantly disgusted with how much people bitch and moan about what the game industry owes them, I've been a gamer since the original NES and never before the last 6 months have I been embarrassed to be one. "Gamers" currently are so petulant childish self obsessed and egocentric it's almost unbelievable, and don't get me started about how they constantly talk out of both sides of their face saying the industry is bankrupt and out of ideas one minute and then letting games that aren't some grey/brown shooter arrive stillborn on the shelves, everyone involved with the ME3 backlash was disgusting and are one of many reasons I'm currently ashamed to call myself a gamer.

#130 Posted by MutenMiller (216 posts) -

Awesome rant, I love it. About time developers fought back against irrational, entitled whiners! Especially in such a reasoned, well constructed way.

#131 Posted by Slab64 (1056 posts) -

HARADA FOR PRESIDENT OF VIDEOGAMES

#132 Edited by lordofultima (6252 posts) -

@TPoppaPuff said:

Harada is absolutely right. These "fans" he speaks of need to quit being jackasses. The voices were dreadfully shitty and clearly that comunity or subset doesn't get it, but it's the GAMEPLAY that matters, not voices.

@cikame said:

Also, "Tekken may be less relevant these days", go bury yourself. Judging by your reaction every time Tekken is brought up i'm almost sure you posted this 'news' with ill intent Patrick.

Tekken was the most popular fighting series of the late 90s or at least irrefutably on the PlayStation. Now it is like the 4th most relevent at best? Certainly well behind Street Fighter, MK, and Soul Calibur.

Maybe you should go bury yourself...

Isn't Tekken consistently the most popular arcade fighter in Japan? I'm pretty sure it is. Soul Calibur is getting next to no player support, sounds like you're the one a little out of touch. Tons of hype surrounding the console release of Tag 2 in the states, by comparison.

Online
#133 Posted by Beaudacious (930 posts) -

If I was Harada I'd simply drop Tekken make a new exciting fighting game, that people other then tekken fans would buy. Then say; Fuck you, I'm never making another Tekken game again, go play Tekken 3.

#134 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19357 posts) -

@PerfidiousSinn said:

Atlus should respond to people complaining about voice changes in Persona 4: Arena and Persona 4: Golden in a similar manner.

Except they wouldn't be able to because Persona 4 is a four year old game, not a 16 year old franchise that used dramatically different software than today's.

#135 Posted by clumsyninja1 (817 posts) -

Harada, you complete ME

#136 Posted by brownsfantb (393 posts) -

Awesome rant. I wish it was video taped though. The video game industry needs more crazy rants like the sports and entertainment industries.

#137 Posted by musicman1024 (14 posts) -

@Saganomics: I was unclear, I totally agree with it being okay to call out artists for making a product that the consumer finds terrible. Effort certainly isn't going to appease everyone, and I've found even my favorite writers/game designers have produced products leaving a sour taste in my mouth.

But It goes back to the fact that regardless of how you feel about it, it's still someone's creation, and hence deserves to be treated with respect to the fact that someone created this over many painstaking hours. It might be the worse thing you've ever experienced, but the creator should never be nagged to reach into their work of art and change things because the consumer disagrees with the way it was created.

#138 Posted by PolygonSlayer (429 posts) -

Damn fucking right! Respect to the man. :)

#139 Posted by Jeffsekai (7034 posts) -

Harada is the fucking man.

#140 Posted by ZZoMBiE13 (316 posts) -

That was a fun read. Thanks Tricky.

#141 Posted by AlwaysBeClothing (1472 posts) -

I want them to not make Tekken Force mandatory for progression in the story mode, but that's just me. In any case, pretty solid read.

#142 Posted by umdesch4 (772 posts) -

That was a great rant, and it's good to have a rant like that when you have a good case to make. I can't see any kind of similar rant coming from anyone at Bioware over the ME3 ending though.

I never got into the crazier aspects of the ME3 ending fiasco, and I never demanded anything of Bioware. But they are no longer "entitled" to my money, so I won't be buying anything else they put out, probably ever. It would take one of the people around here who was vocal and articulate about why that ending was an abomination to say "hey, I finished their latest game, and they got it right this time", to even begin to convince me.

Entitlement, whatever.

#143 Posted by Milkman (16851 posts) -

Harada just threw internet trolls into a volcano.

Online
#144 Posted by Landon (4149 posts) -

@Rxanadu said:

@PerfidiousSinn said:

Atlus should respond to people complaining about voice changes in Persona 4: Arena and Persona 4: Golden in a similar manner.

Hell, I'm surprised the actual voice actors haven't had this sort of rant on Twitter yet. Could you imagine Chie's original VA just saying, "After all the shit I got for people complaining about my voice in the original, NOW you want me back? Fuck off!"

The people who complained about her voice are not the same people who want her back.

#145 Posted by Dad_Is_A_Zombie (1225 posts) -

Ha! I couldn't care less about Tekken but I like this guy!

#146 Posted by ProfessorK (824 posts) -

He is truly King of Iron Fist...

#147 Posted by wumbo3000 (979 posts) -

That was beautiful.

But, you know, whatever.

#148 Posted by Otzlowe (337 posts) -

I wish this sentiment was voiced more often. In fact, I wish that larger changes and more risks were taken more often in the video game industry.

To use Tekken as an example: It's awesome, but why do we need new ones anymore? If that's unreasonable, why do we need to carry-over so many elements from the past? You can just play the one that you already love so much.

It's like how everyone gets angry when a band changes its sound, even though their new sound is usually just as good. Then people turn around five years later and go, "Y'know, that album was really underrated." Video game example: FFXII. (Which then caused SE to make 13 awful. Thanks for that, bros.)

#150 Posted by Lunar_Aura (2779 posts) -

As long as having a voice is free, fans will abuse said voice.

All expense is at the developers end, and fans will rarely, if ever, care about production costs and whether or not something is technically feasible or profitable.

This edit will also create new pages on Giant Bomb for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Giant Bomb users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.