You Should Read This Rant By a Tekken Producer

#151 Posted by Saganomics (212 posts) -

@musicman1024 said:

@Saganomics: I was unclear, I totally agree with it being okay to call out artists for making a product that the consumer finds terrible. Effort certainly isn't going to appease everyone, and I've found even my favorite writers/game designers have produced products leaving a sour taste in my mouth.

But It goes back to the fact that regardless of how you feel about it, it's still someone's creation, and hence deserves to be treated with respect to the fact that someone created this over many painstaking hours. It might be the worse thing you've ever experienced, but the creator should never be nagged to reach into their work of art and change things because the consumer disagrees with the way it was created.

Total agreement.

#152 Posted by CookieMonster (2448 posts) -

Props to the guy.

#153 Posted by ddensel (388 posts) -

Harada obviously cares a lot about the Tekken series and wants the franchise to move forward. He's A-OK in my book.

You want to listen to Tekken 3 voice work? Play Tekken 3. Harada shouldn't even waste time with these losers.

#154 Posted by Zippedbinders (1034 posts) -

@Jimbo said:

So... that's a 'no' on the voices then? I think it's cute when people in the industry sound off at/about their customers - it just makes it easier to buy less games. Not that I was buying Tekken anyway, of course.

Yeah, how dare people have opinions on how they like to make things.

#155 Posted by katanalauncher (215 posts) -

lol he mad

#156 Posted by Doomshine (150 posts) -

@lordofultima said:

@TPoppaPuff said:

Harada is absolutely right. These "fans" he speaks of need to quit being jackasses. The voices were dreadfully shitty and clearly that comunity or subset doesn't get it, but it's the GAMEPLAY that matters, not voices.

@cikame said:

Also, "Tekken may be less relevant these days", go bury yourself. Judging by your reaction every time Tekken is brought up i'm almost sure you posted this 'news' with ill intent Patrick.

Tekken was the most popular fighting series of the late 90s or at least irrefutably on the PlayStation. Now it is like the 4th most relevent at best? Certainly well behind Street Fighter, MK, and Soul Calibur.

Maybe you should go bury yourself...

Isn't Tekken consistently the most popular arcade fighter in Japan? I'm pretty sure it is. Soul Calibur is getting next to no player support, sounds like you're the one a little out of touch. Tons of hype surrounding the console release of Tag 2 in the states, by comparison.

It remains the best selling fighting game franchise of all time and it's also the most popular fighter in Japanese arcades.

#157 Posted by whatisdelicious (1288 posts) -

@ddensel said:

Harada obviously cares a lot about the Tekken series and wants the franchise to move forward. He's A-OK in my book.

You want to listen to Tekken 3 voice work? Play Tekken 3. Harada shouldn't even waste time with these losers.

Yep. This, exactly.

#158 Edited by bricewgilbert (189 posts) -

I find it hard to feel too sorry for developers in situations involving criticism. People are either going to like a piece of entertainment or they aren't. If you are going to put yourself out there like that expect criticism. This Tekken producers rant I find perfectly reasonable. He's explaining why things are the way they are. It doesn't mean everyone has to suddenly like it. Maybe they understand now, but that doesn't make the content good. Though in this case I personally find complaining about Tekken voice actors fucking absurd, but that's me.

#159 Posted by BabyChooChoo (4807 posts) -

Harada = fucking awesome.

#160 Posted by Jimbo (9991 posts) -
@Humanity said:

@Jimbo said:

So... that's a 'no' on the voices then? I think it's cute when people in the industry sound off at/about their customers - it just makes it easier to buy less games. Not that I was buying Tekken anyway, of course.

What? Are you kidding or.. ? What?

No. I fucking hate the culture that has sprung up around gaming where customers are treated as subservient to the industry (by both industry and press, which are effectively the same thing anyway). Fuck that. I'm fine with people in the industry losing their patience with / lashing out at their fans in public (I even kinda respect them for it), as long as they're fine with me then never putting another dime in their pocket.  
 
The industry works for gamers, not the other way around, and it's good for them to be reminded of that once in a while. Complaining about dumb shit isn't being 'entitled' (or rather, it is I suppose, just without the negative connotations attached to it), it's just one of the privileges of paying for everything. They need our money more than we need their games and they should conduct themselves accordingly. Or at least, they should if they want my money - you lot can spend your money however you like.
#161 Posted by Deusoma (3032 posts) -
@bricewgilbert said:

 in this case I personally find complaining about Tekken voice actors fucking absurd, but that's me.

This is really the only relevant comment I have to make about this, so I'll just quote you, friend Brice. Hope you don't mind.
#162 Edited by TPoppaPuff (285 posts) -

@lordofultima: I'd figure for sure SF is a bigger deal in Japan than Tekken. Certainly here in NA. I'm largely just going by sales and I'm pretty sure the titles I mentioned all outsold the last actual Tekken game here. Regardless, I still maintain that, as Klepek said, Tekken isn't as relevent as it was in it's heyday. It's impossible. It has nowhere near the market-share that it once had in the 90's in the fighting genre, much less the console market or games in general.

Back in the day it was one of the top ten IPs when you listed off games. Now? *chuckles*

#163 Posted by Lazyaza (2212 posts) -

Geezus, we sure do live in an era where so many people think they can just moan and bitch and get exactly what they want. Fucking absurd. That said I'm downloading the ME3 extended cut stuff right now, haha.

#164 Posted by Bummey (616 posts) -

This guy's a real dude.

#165 Posted by Jimbo (9991 posts) -
@Zippedbinders said:

@Jimbo said:

So... that's a 'no' on the voices then? I think it's cute when people in the industry sound off at/about their customers - it just makes it easier to buy less games. Not that I was buying Tekken anyway, of course.

Yeah, how dare people have opinions on how they like to make things.

There are ways to do that without sounding like you are telling your customers to go fuck themselves. 
 
For instance: 'Sorry guys, we can't do that because x, y and z...' or 'We often get asked... let me take a minute to explain why we don't...'
 
As opposed to: 'Unnnnghhh!! God! Stop being such stupid babies. Let me try and explain this in small words that even you fucking idiots can understand. Not that I give a shit if you understand or not. Whatever.'
 
Again, I'm fine with them taking the latter approach, just don't expect any more of my money. Whatever.
#166 Edited by Kosayn (453 posts) -

Man, Tekken. I look at it with the same disdain that I do the Sonic series, but there's no denying how great Sonic 1 & 2 were in their day on a nice big CRT. Likewise with Tekken 3, it made that old PS1 the life of the party back in college.

Few series stay good, because some try to stay very faithful to pointless minutiae of the original game, and some never identify the parts that did make the original game successful. I think simpler games manage better to retain quality through a series.

Brian definitely had a good laugh. But come on, the main success factor of Tekken 3 was that it was cutting edge graphically for something on a home console. We'd all seen VF in arcades demanding $1 or more per play. Is either Tekken or VF cutting edge graphically today? Are physical blows landing like they actually would on an opponent, based on their geometry - or do they land approximately and hide it with an impact effect? Is the facial capture 'LA Noire' level, does it react to hitting or being hit like a person would? Those are just a couple throwaway ideas of how fighting games could move on, graphically, but I think they don't really have the ambition to do it.

#167 Posted by SnakeEyes327 (336 posts) -

@rebgav said:

@Milkman said:

Harada just threw internet trolls into a volcano.

Great, now they're going to come back with demon wings and laser eyes.

This is why we have "professional" community managers. Harada has a completely valid and legitimate point, sadly wrapped up in miserable whiny bullshit.

Yes, telling them up front how something works is miserable whiny bullshit.

#168 Posted by Dauragon (554 posts) -

That last line is a fucking flaming slam dunk. A "BOOMSHACKALACKA" if you will.

#169 Posted by Spitznock (599 posts) -

@jking47 said:

This guy sounds pretty damn reasonable. I like him!

This!

#171 Posted by TPoppaPuff (285 posts) -

@SnakeEyes327 said:

@rebgav said:

@Milkman said:

Harada just threw internet trolls into a volcano.

Great, now they're going to come back with demon wings and laser eyes.

This is why we have "professional" community managers. Harada has a completely valid and legitimate point, sadly wrapped up in miserable whiny bullshit.

Yes, telling them up front how something works is miserable whiny bullshit.

Agreed. It only sounds like miserable and whiny bullshit when he reflects exactly how whiny and full of bullshit those complainers are back onto themselves. There was virtually no subjectivity in his list of his reasons why the sounds may or may not be the same. He specualated as to why some "fans" might interpret the sounds as different and stated objectively many reasons why things are the way they are, but there was nothing in there that I would say was whiny and miserable. The only thing sad about this is that he had to specifically state to these dumb ingrates how reality works.

#172 Posted by Humanity (10066 posts) -

@Jimbo: While I agree with most of what you're saying I just don't think in this particular case it's the right approach. I can see why he would be annoyed when people are requesting original voices from 15 years back - thats kind of a silly request. The fact that they will add free DLC characters for the fans is nice of them also.

I guess I believe in a balance between developers pleasing fans and fans having level headed requests of developers.

Online
#173 Posted by Saganomics (212 posts) -

@Kosayn said:

Man, Tekken. I look at it with the same disdain that I do the Sonic series

Jesus Christ, dude. I haven't played a Tekken game since, like, 3 and even I'm offended by that comparison.

#174 Posted by Brendan (8136 posts) -

Ugh, sometimes nerds are the worst. Sometimes developers are awesome. This situation contains both of those things.

#175 Posted by AlexanderSheen (5090 posts) -

"I AM AS MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!"

#176 Posted by the_OFFICIAL_jAPanese_teaBAG (4284 posts) -

I dont get why hes not allowed to criticize the fans who are criticizing his work

#177 Posted by Hunter5024 (5963 posts) -

I thought this was going to be very insulting to the fans, but it looked like he presented his standpoint pretty logically using the best method to reach everybody that he had available to him.

#178 Posted by Kazona (3096 posts) -

I, for one, am glad to see a developer air his feelings like this. Too often do these guys get stone walled by PR, preventing them from speaking their mind honestly. Things like this aren't just refreshing, they are incredibly welcome.

#179 Edited by VicRattlehead (1400 posts) -

seems like a strange article... ive been following harada close on 2 years now and he seems to rant like this a couple times a month... Hideki Kamiya from platinum games is also a good one to follow for raging at fans there is even a thread dedicated to it on neogaf

edit: now that i think about it ed boon talks a lot of shit to fans on his twitter as well.... its great

#180 Posted by Death_Burnout (3800 posts) -

@Spitznock said:

@jking47 said:

This guy sounds pretty damn reasonable. I like him!

This!

And everyone needs a good moan now and then, especially when you deal with...'fans'

#181 Posted by tourgen (4542 posts) -

I'm sure dealing with Tekken fans who like to pay money for Tekken games must be annoying? Whatever. The dude is making another Tekken game. His choice. He can deal with the consequences. If not, you know, try making something else.

#182 Posted by two_socks (236 posts) -

Huge ups to this guy. Having the balls and then the place of mind to address these people in this reasonable manner is huge. It's so obvious he cares so much about what fans are asking for in his games. Huge props to him.

#183 Posted by Ravenlight (8011 posts) -

That rant almost makes me want to go out and buy a copy of Tekken 6.

Almost.

#184 Posted by Skooky (479 posts) -

Some of you guys are reading this completely wrong. Because you're babies.

#185 Posted by onan (1286 posts) -

Damn, so much for the 140 character limit.

#186 Posted by M_Shini (551 posts) -

Good for him for speaking his mind.

#187 Posted by TheGorilla (229 posts) -

I think this is the best argument for just letting some things die. I hate the gaming communities obsession with bringing character's back again and again and again. It just looks sad and pathetic. People clamoring for another Mario, another Zelda, another Tekken. It's reached the point of looking severely creepy. Sometimes it's best to try something new, and ignore old fans who just scream for someone to appease their nostalgia.

The new Splinter Cell seems like a good example. I don't want to speak out of turn as I haven't seen the final product yet, but why is that character returning? His story was very clearly concluded in Conviction. The voice is so important to who that character is. When they come out and claim it's the same character after so severely changing his voice it just feels insulting. They know it's a different character, we know it's a different character, but they refuse to admit it. They're locked in this condescending obsession to present the same character that sold well last time. At least James Bond that shit and make him look totally different with the idea that it's a different guy in the same kind of role. Or look at what Bourne is doing and create a new character in the same fictional universe.

For the love of all fuck! Stop making the same games with the same characters. I only spend my money on things that feel new or are wrapping up a tight storyline. The last $60 game I bought was L.A. Noire but I've played dozens of games since then, all rented.

Whenever I hear about game designers doing the same thing for two decades I just get depressed and all ranty.

#188 Posted by AhmadMetallic (18954 posts) -

Some people ask for map design and gameplay mechanics to be brought back to their favorite games, others ask for a recorded laugh.

#189 Posted by ManlyBeast (1175 posts) -

"That last line is unbelievable, by the way."

What?

grrr can't you just go work somewhere else....

#190 Posted by TrafalgarLaw (1360 posts) -

Patrick Klepek Tekken is less relevant these days? Maybe in America but in europe it's bigger than Street Fighter, DoA or whatever combined.

#191 Posted by clush (428 posts) -

looks like somebody took advantage of the PR department's annual picknick... Understandable as it may be, I can't see anything good coming from this.

#192 Posted by hermes (1606 posts) -

I am just going to leave this here:

Ben Croshaw: Fans are clingy, complaining dipshits who will never ever be grateful for any concessions you make. The moment you shut out their shrill, tremulous voices, the happier you'll be for it.
#193 Edited by YummyTreeSap (374 posts) -

@ManlyBeast said:

"That last line is unbelievable, by the way."

What?

grrr can't you just go work somewhere else....

Yawn, yawn. It's perfectly clear what he means there unless you want to think of the word unbelievable completely literally and with no prior knowledge that sometimes words are used colloquially and slightly outside their strict definitions. Awesome literally means something that inspires awe, though the informal use is slightly different than that. Though somewhat outdated as slang, radical literally means something fairly unrelated to its informal usage. As does cool. And so on.

Some of you people nitpick every fucking thing Patrick says just because you don't like him. I'm not even going to believe for a minute that you don't actually understand what he was getting at; you just like to play the semantic bullshit card in attempt to discredit him. Get over yourselves. Jesus. He thought the last line was pretty excellent—and damn, it sure is—and said as much. The end.

#194 Posted by ThievingJacob (45 posts) -

You people should stop using the word 'entitled'; it's the slur of our corporate oppressors.

#195 Posted by TrafalgarLaw (1360 posts) -

@TheGorilla said:

I think this is the best argument for just letting some things die. I hate the gaming communities obsession with bringing character's back again and again and again. It just looks sad and pathetic. People clamoring for another Mario, another Zelda, another Tekken. It's reached the point of looking severely creepy. Sometimes it's best to try something new, and ignore old fans who just scream for someone to appease their nostalgia.

The new Splinter Cell seems like a good example. I don't want to speak out of turn as I haven't seen the final product yet, but why is that character returning? His story was very clearly concluded in Conviction. The voice is so important to who that character is. When they come out and claim it's the same character after so severely changing his voice it just feels insulting. They know it's a different character, we know it's a different character, but they refuse to admit it. They're locked in this condescending obsession to present the same character that sold well last time. At least James Bond that shit and make him look totally different with the idea that it's a different guy in the same kind of role. Or look at what Bourne is doing and create a new character in the same fictional universe.

For the love of all fuck! Stop making the same games with the same characters. I only spend my money on things that feel new or are wrapping up a tight storyline. The last $60 game I bought was L.A. Noire but I've played dozens of games since then, all rented.

Whenever I hear about game designers doing the same thing for two decades I just get depressed and all ranty.

Splinter Cell was meh at best to begin with, especially with games like Metal Gear Solid around. And Tekken isn't "the same game with the same characters", don't call yourself a Tekken expert if all you did was rent the game and beat story mode once. Let me rephrase; Don't comment on Tekken ever. And also funny you play videogames for a tight storyline...you should read a good book once in a while.

#196 Posted by mrsmiley (1146 posts) -

Mad props to this guy for speaking his mind and putting entitled (yes, I said it) whiners in their place.

#197 Posted by Undeadpool (4997 posts) -

@EquitasInvictus said:

Wow, it seems as if a bunch of developers have been dealing with a lot of unnecessary issues lately.

I kind of feel bad for these guys, considering they put in so much work and there are barely ever any guarantees as to their success or continued existence in the industry. Was it always like this? I feel like developers didn't have to put up with this, say, a decade ago.

They did, just not as much. It's partially the proliferation of the internet, and partially that proliferation giving rise to this weird, new MEGA NOSTALGIA. Nostalgia MIGHT just be the most toxic force in the games industry right now, it's the driving force behind people pining for a game that simply never was and NEVER being content, even when something positive happens. And it's some game they haven't even PICKED UP in 10 years, but they remember (all the good, none of the bad) SO VIVIDLY!

#198 Posted by jelekeloy (451 posts) -

I love this. I love the last line especially. There is nothing wrong with it and (mostly) everything right with it.

#199 Posted by CptPanda29 (191 posts) -

Good on him, I don't know a damn thing about making games and this gave me some perspective. The last line shows how fed up he is with all the spam too.

#200 Posted by Doomshine (150 posts) -

@clush: He makes Namco a lot of money. I'm sure he'll be fine.

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