You Should Read This Rant By a Tekken Producer

#201 Posted by dezvous (542 posts) -

Yeah, this is completely refreshing to me. Tell it like it is. I would love to see more of this. Defend your product with smart reasoning. I didn't take it as not being professional, people need to loosen up anyways.

#202 Posted by jasondesante (603 posts) -

i understand, and feel sad for those who dont. you will never understand anything

#203 Posted by TheHumanDove (2523 posts) -

Time to use the word entitled, because that's a thing now

#204 Posted by BBAlpert (1438 posts) -

Having played Tekken 1, 2, and 3, how am I just now realizing the pun in Marshall Law's name?

#205 Posted by sins_of_mosin (1556 posts) -

Coming from a guy who hasn't made any big changes to his series in the past 10 years, who the hell cares what he thinks.

#206 Posted by dskillzhtown (31 posts) -

@EquitasInvictus: All the communication channels that exist today didn't exist ten years ago. Also, developers didn't really seek out all of this feedback ten years ago either. Most fans are not hardcore enough to complain about voice actors in a fighting game, most don't care. It is a small minority that does care and fortunately/unfortunately they are the most vocal. But I think developers sometimes take that loud minority opinion as what the masses are thinking when that is simply not the case.

#207 Posted by NegativeCero (2995 posts) -

I would have loved if Bioware did this exact same thing. Good for him for not taking crap from the fans.

#208 Posted by PurplePartyRobot (177 posts) -

Those who like the Tekken series can complain and whine all they want about Harada not adding features or voices they want and threaten that they won't buy the game, but at the end of the day they're still gonna buy the next game in the series whether Harada makes good on those requests or not so good on Harada for airing his grievances while explaining why requests such as "GIVE ME THE VOICE ACTOR THE WAY HE SOUNDED 15 YEARS AGO" is insane.

#209 Posted by sagebirt (58 posts) -

There's no way that was 140 characters or less! :)

#210 Posted by Zippedbinders (983 posts) -

@Jimbo said:

@Zippedbinders said:

@Jimbo said:

So... that's a 'no' on the voices then? I think it's cute when people in the industry sound off at/about their customers - it just makes it easier to buy less games. Not that I was buying Tekken anyway, of course.

Yeah, how dare people have opinions on how they like to make things.

There are ways to do that without sounding like you are telling your customers to go fuck themselves.

For instance: 'Sorry guys, we can't do that because x, y and z...' or 'We often get asked... let me take a minute to explain why we don't...'

As opposed to: 'Unnnnghhh!! God! Stop being such stupid babies. Let me try and explain this in small words that even you fucking idiots can understand. Not that I give a shit if you understand or not. Whatever.' Again, I'm fine with them taking the latter approach, just don't expect any more of my money. Whatever.

The thing here is that you're assuming that this is a new question and that this was his response. In all likely hood he and other staff members have answered these questions numerous times in interviews and on forums. If you've been working on something for 15 years, and have been subjugated to the same types of complaints time and time again, there becomes a snapping point. Patience can only be so thick before you get tired of the same question being asked over and over again, the same issues being brought up.

We're talking about dedicated/obsessed fans, the kind who often ignore any answer until its the one they want to hear. And even then, there's plenty of room for complaints.

#211 Posted by bybeach (4784 posts) -

I can't blame ppl. for wanting a series to retain what they most loved about it. It's when that love turns into fatal attraction that it gets weird. I have little interest in Tekken but I saw Deus Ex-Human revolution walk that past/present line and be judged on it, by myself included. i guess I would have to say most analysis both professional reviewer and end user was apropo and well within rights, entitled(so sick of...) or not. But some was nit-dicky and some other even downright fanatical.

Video games...it's getting well past the mark of just calling them that as if they were simple turtle speed evolving code variations of Pong. But that includes the bad as well the good generated by ppl. playing them.

#212 Posted by yoshisaur (2701 posts) -

@King_Bonzo said:

Sounds like a well reasoned argument

It's about damn time developers start speaking their minds. I'm really getting tired of the amount of bullshit the press and members of the audience get away with nowadays because the sensation that everyone deserves the game they dream about.

I may not play the Tekken games, but this developer has expressed himself rationally and professionally. There was no real form of slander, just a pissed of person letting his thoughts known to the countless idiots we all know they deal with.

Bravo, and I hope more people like this start voicing themselves so this self-entitled mob mentality we have going right now can start being pushed back.

#213 Posted by stryker1121 (1400 posts) -

I'd be out of sorts myself if I was dealing with pedantic Comic Book Guy types for the last 20 years..

#214 Posted by Phatmac (5725 posts) -

I'm in full support of this article. Fans have to stop whining so damn much.

#215 Posted by Nephrahim (1131 posts) -

As not a Tekken fan I can't say this matters too much to me one way or another, but I have to say I like this rant. VAs do change sometimes, and while there are a lot of times that I don't like the changes... it happens.

#216 Posted by warmonked (355 posts) -
That last line is unbelievable, by the way.

Huh? He doesn't think people will understand even after his rant, why's that unbelievable?

#217 Posted by Hellequin (37 posts) -

Amazing. Fantastic. I won't buy Tekken, because I've never cared for or about it, but I still appreciate straight talk when I see it.

#218 Posted by clush (413 posts) -

@Doomshine said:

@clush: He makes Namco a lot of money. I'm sure he'll be fine.

Oh he'll be fine no doubt. But that doesnt make it any less of a bad move. I'm not really sure what he's trying to achieve to begin with, but he's probaby shooting himself in the foot regardless with this tone. He's just venting and shouldve probably slept on it.

It's not very well written either, so I doubt he's given it too much thought before flinging this onto the internet. Some things you are better off just sucking up and sometimes you have to think twice about your reactions. I'd argue that's also part of "being an adult".

#219 Posted by HerbieBug (4212 posts) -

How is this news? Developer annoyed by fans of long time established franchise series? Why do we need an article on this?

#220 Posted by thehuntsmen5434 (427 posts) -

lol there are people mad about the sound in Tekken? Its never bothered me, once. Out of everything the FGC complains about sound is never one of them.

#221 Posted by afrofools (1341 posts) -

I would go crazy making new installations in a series like Tekken for seventeen years. But then again, I already am crazy.

#222 Posted by morrelloman (608 posts) -

I like king. He wore a mask or was a tiger. Whatever.

#223 Posted by StarvingGamer (8134 posts) -

I love you Harada even if I haven't bought a Tekken game in years.

#224 Posted by CouncilorChief (85 posts) -

@mrfluke said:

the mass effect one was justified fans pushing on bioware cause that ending was bullshit, and now they have done good cause that extended ending is satisfying,

but this seems like stupid fans harassing a creator

This.

But Harada does present a reasonable argument. Something that can't be said for Casey Chugson and Hack Walters

#225 Posted by zoozilla (978 posts) -

@YummyTreeSap: Hear, hear!

#226 Posted by bill (98 posts) -

lol the people who think negative on this response

#227 Edited by SatelliteOfLove (1369 posts) -

I am REALLY liking the new "laying down the LAW" attitude from more J-devs. It's especially good of him to seperate the "I have a bone to pick you with you devs and now I'm gonna bitch" crowd from the "I DONT have a bone with you and I'm gonna bitch" crowd. Sadly, the loudest of the ME3 howlers were of the later. Speaking of which:
 

I have even complied to the requests of you all spamming me to "bring back characters" from previous installments. You often say, "let's show the dev team how sincere we are by buying 2 copies if they bring back character X", but did you really go through with it? Expecting you to at least pre-order the game, I was met with more spam, after you apparently didn't notice that Jun and Michelle actually return.


 
This is one of the things I've been hapring on repeatedly, no talk without wallet! You wanna support a dev for a decision you liked? BUY THEIR SHIT. You feel like they're giving you a raw deal? DONT BUY THEIR SHIT.
#228 Posted by AngelN7 (2970 posts) -

@HerbieBug said:

How is this news? Developer annoyed by fans of long time established franchise series? Why do we need an article on this?

Because we need to look at he fact that gamers have become a self entitled bunch that feel like they should control every single aspect of the design that goes into games and worst they do it in the most obnoxious idiotic way.

#229 Posted by avidwriter (667 posts) -

People really expected them to use the same voices for 6 games over 10+ years. God I hate gamers more and more and I am one!

#230 Posted by BionicRadd (617 posts) -

@AngelN7 said:

@HerbieBug said:

How is this news? Developer annoyed by fans of long time established franchise series? Why do we need an article on this?

Because we need to look at he fact that gamers have become a self entitled bunch that feel like they should control every single aspect of the design that goes into games and worst they do it in the most obnoxious idiotic way.

The problem isnt the BioWhiners. It's that devs pay attention to them. People in large groups are idiots and the internet is comprised of large groups of people.

#231 Posted by MikkaQ (10283 posts) -

I just imagined a Japanese David Jaffe after reading that rant.

#232 Posted by Itwastuesday (957 posts) -

@sins_of_mosin said:

Coming from a guy who hasn't made any big changes to his series in the past 10 years, who the hell cares what he thinks.

yea tekken 4 is basically the same as tekken 6 right

i have decided in my mind that it is even if i don't actually know because the internet

#233 Edited by BigMike (36 posts) -

I have little vested interest in the Tekken series itself or whether I'm feeling entitled. I usually don't say a thing and vote with my feet. However the responses to this article are really decisive and addicting to read. The rights of the consumer versus the rights of the developer is what it seems to boil down to. Ultimately I suppose either side can understand each other or not understand each other. Whatever.

#234 Posted by Obinice (275 posts) -
@dekkadekkadekka
you need practice at taking a step back and analyzing things objectively. And also at being an adult.

This quote, albeit out of context but as a standalone statement, goes for consumers and members of the press.

Also good advice for absolutely every situation in life!
#235 Posted by BlazeHedgehog (1091 posts) -

This seems like kind of a pithy thing to even care about. Like, small enough that I'm surprised he even addressed it, especially given voices in something like Tekken have never seemed all that important. It's not like it has famous voice actors (at least, not famous on this side of the pond), and there aren't tons of iconic lines or something.
 
If David Hayter stopped voicing Solid Snake, people are going to notice. When Mark Hammil is no longer the Joker, his absence is felt. Those are characters that talk a lot and imbue their characters with life and personality.
 
But who gives a shit about Tekken voices? 90% of them are battle cries. It's all about perspective.

#236 Posted by Hailinel (24381 posts) -

@BlazeHedgehog said:

But who gives a shit about Tekken voices? 90% of them are battle cries. It's all about perspective.

Tekken fans, apparently.

Online
#237 Posted by Robo (792 posts) -

Don't really give a damn about Tekken or its voices but it's nice of him to be so candid. Refreshing.

To play the devil's advocate a little, maybe if less developers acted like they couldn't be bothered to actually address their fans' concerns directly, there would be a few less people constantly questioning - or "whining" about - things they simply don't understand.

He mentions a need to act as adults, yet more often fans/customers are written off like whiny children any time they dare express even legitimate concerns about the products they're buying.

#238 Posted by JazGalaxy (1576 posts) -

I really hate "bring back" requests, because essentailly people just want the same game they played 20 years ago. Tekken and Halo are the chief offenders in the "this is a brand new game and I feel like I already played it/ I'm already bored." scenario.

#239 Posted by SpudBug (633 posts) -

I don't understand this- Street Fighter has used different voices for almost all of its iterations over the same time frame - nobody seems to care.

Why are the voice actors important to a fighting game?

Maybe it's only important because they haven't changed the voices in so long, so fans have come to expect them? Should have started changing them with each generation.

Also, Harada is awesome.

#240 Posted by Paindamnation (798 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

@BlazeHedgehog said:

But who gives a shit about Tekken voices? 90% of them are battle cries. It's all about perspective.

Tekken fans, apparently.

^

#241 Posted by MisterMouse (3546 posts) -

I like that this guy stood up and said something about this. To be honest people will always want how they imagined playing a game was, and expect that to continue, but what if that were to change and instead of trying t recreate those feelings through the same type of game we create new feelings akin to that with new games. For me I try to support new IPs more than established franchises because I want to say thank you for trying something new and going out a limb, those experiences are what is exciting, falling in love with a new game, not trying to fall in love again with a game you are already in love with. It is like trying to experience that first hit of a drug again, almost nothing compares to that first hit and you are constantly trying to recapture that hit with larger quantities of that same drug but nothing compares, it is until you switch it up and try something new that you can experience a new kind of hit. (I am not saying games offer similar side effects in any way, just was a good example haha)

#242 Posted by BlazeHedgehog (1091 posts) -
@Paindamnation said:

@Hailinel said:

@BlazeHedgehog said:

But who gives a shit about Tekken voices? 90% of them are battle cries. It's all about perspective.

Tekken fans, apparently.

^

Maybe Tekken fans should care about things that actually matter, like fighting mechanics and game balance. Don't get me wrong, though I kind of get it - In Street Fighter 4, I switched to Japanese voices almost immediately because Chun-li, Ryu, etc. all didn't sound "right" unless they were using the original VAs. But either Harada is easily annoyed or people are bothering him way too much about something that is relatively insignificant.
 
Solid Snake talks a lot. Nathan Drake talks a lot. The Joker talks a lot. Their voices matter. But this is a fighting game. It does not bother me so much that Spider-man in Marvel vs. Capcom 3 sounds completely different than Spider-man in Marvel vs. Capcom 2. Certainly not enough to prompt somebody from Capcom to come out and tell me "Hey, stop being a baby and suck it up, loser."
 
One way or the other, somebody in this situation is overreacting.
#243 Posted by 137 (481 posts) -

pretty much told everyone how many fucks from 0 - 10 he gives... I'm leaning towads 0

#244 Posted by HaYHaYHaY (151 posts) -

=( now i'll be sad if one day Ed Boon is no longer scorpion...

#245 Posted by Gringus (65 posts) -

@Saganomics said:

@musicman1024 said:

@Saganomics: I was unclear, I totally agree with it being okay to call out artists for making a product that the consumer finds terrible. Effort certainly isn't going to appease everyone, and I've found even my favorite writers/game designers have produced products leaving a sour taste in my mouth.

But It goes back to the fact that regardless of how you feel about it, it's still someone's creation, and hence deserves to be treated with respect to the fact that someone created this over many painstaking hours. It might be the worse thing you've ever experienced, but the creator should never be nagged to reach into their work of art and change things because the consumer disagrees with the way it was created.

Total agreement.

Woah, I think this is probably the best thing I've ever read on this website.

#246 Posted by Sweep (8841 posts) -

I was hoping for a more general rant on consumer entitlement, but whatever. This is still cool to read.

Moderator
#247 Posted by GS_Dan (1403 posts) -

That last part was amazing

#248 Posted by kagato (910 posts) -

He is right, fans can be completely crazy with their requests/demands and unreasonable, i remember seeing someone shouting and screaming for Heihachi to have his original voice actor despite the fact he died over a year ago. Im sure they will use as many samples as they can but it just gets unmanageable. The only question fans should be asking is "is the game any good?", if the answer to that is yes then there shouldnt be any problem.

#249 Posted by kogasu (148 posts) -

Followed!

I think it's safe to say Harada is awesome! It makes me feel bad that I haven't bought a Tekken game in ages.

#250 Posted by klinkcow (255 posts) -

This is so openly brutal and honest. I'm sure a PR person is stressed about this right now, but I think this transparency works in his favor.

I haven't cared about Tekken in 10 years, but this, for some reason, makes me want to revisit it.

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