Not really enjoying Morrowind

#1 Edited by Apothos (8 posts) -

Ever since I picked up Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion I'd heard how amazing Morrowind was. But I never even considered buying it because, well, I had Oblivion. It didn't really interest me.

Fast forward six years or so to a bored me staring at Morrowind on Steam. $19.00...okay fine I'll buy it and see what's so amazing about it.

First thoughts: man this game looks like a pile of rancid ass leavings. So I go to the Morrowind page here on giant bomb remembering seeing lists of mods to make it look less awful. Eventually settled on the all-in-one graphics and sound overhaul.

Now before I talk about that overhaul I should say that Morrowind runs terribly on my computer. This laptop is less than a month old.

Specs:

-AMD A10-4600M cpu

-AMD Radeon HD 7979 / 2GB GDDR5 graphics card (it's supposed to be one of the best on the market but also affordable)

-15.6" screen, 1920x1080

-DDRIII 8GB of ram

-Operating system is Windows 8 (sadly)

-Overall it cost me about $1200

The framerate when in outdoor environments even with the sight distance set as low as possible was sub 25fps at all times. When I moved it sank below 20fps. Indoors wasn't an issue with 60fps at all times. My understanding of computers isn't great but I can run skyrim on this laptop on ultra settings at a constant 60fps no matter where I am in the world and no matter what I'm doing so I don't exactly understand how this is an issue.

The overhaul made Morrowind look wonderful and actually bumped my fps up to 30 outdoors. However graphical glitches popped up everywhere. If there was no light source on specific textures (say a section of a floor or hallway) it would be pitch black. Not just the floor but everything in the area. I couldn't see anything. If I didn't bring a torch I was walking blind checking my map every two seconds to make sure I wasn't walking into a wall. Enemies could still see perfectly in those pitch black abysses, though, so occasionally I would get hit from somewhere in the darkness and I would have to run back into a lit area so I could see what was attacking me. As I said, graphical glitches everywhere but that was the worst. Not game breaking.

Okay, finally to my main point! I'm just...not having fun with Morrowind. I had to restart after the graphics overhaul because saves made before it were corrupted. But over the two characters I played as (maybe 9 or 10 hours of time played) I couldn't find what made it so spectacular in the eyes of so many. I purposefully avoided guides and outside information so I could find the wonder for myself. But now I'm here asking, "what is it I'm missing?"

I joined the fighter's guild and thieves guild but the quests were so boring; mostly just, "go here and clear out this cave." or "go here and steal this thing." (I never got farther than maybe 6 or so quests in the fighter's guild because my saves corrupted and I wasn't up to playing through them again). I only started the main quest line yesterday because I wasn't sure what Caius (or whoever) meant by, "come back when you've gained notoriety." I just decided to talk to him again at level 10 and got a quest.

The combat is fine. I don't expect much from elder scrolls games. Although do I REALLY hate the stun system. A few times (mostly against enemies using 2-handed weapons, paralyze enchants+dagger, or fists) I would be eternally stunlocked. I couldn't do anything! I would fall down, stare at the ground for 5 seconds (or stare at my enemy for 10 seconds if they were using paralyze), get up, then get knocked down again immediately. I had to skip any enemy capable of doing this. Am I missing something? Is there some way to get out of these stunlocks or paralyzes? They seem broken at times especially with the hand-to-hand fighters.

tl;dr I need guidance on the aspects of Morrowind that seem to set it apart from Oblivion and Skyrim. I want to enjoy it but currently I feel like I could have used that $19.00 on something else.

#2 Posted by emkeighcameron (1876 posts) -

MORROWIND IS GREAT AND YOU'RE A BAD PERSON FOR HATING IT

OK, it's old as hell and probably doesn't hold up anymore. But at the time, it was pretty sweet. I wouldn't play it again myself (with Skyrim/Oblivion being available now) but I played it 2-3 times, including expansions, when it first came out.

You have to see it as a history lesson, not a modern game. It was a fantastic step forward when it came out, and it set the standard of all its successors.

#3 Posted by kadash299 (282 posts) -

New Skyrim DLC: $20.00.. Morrowind $19.00.. I played morrowind when it was not as dated, but FUCK that shit was bad. I Dont see the wonder either, and i LOVE every other TES game. I just straight up can NOT see what people saw. Clunky Combat (borderline unplayable), weird inventory, terrible dialogue(or none at all), and obviously shit smeared graphics. I am not a fan

#4 Posted by ArbitraryWater (12004 posts) -

Why did you pay $19 for Morrowind? It's like $5 every other week or whatever. It took me a while to "get" Morrowind, but when I did I started enjoying it (only for Skyrim to immediately come out and distract me and I haven't been back since). It still has the whole "explore everything" thing that one would expect from an Elder Scrolls, but it's a slower, more deliberate game with a lot more old RPG-isms. If it's not for you, it's not for you, but I finally did see part of what made the game so enthralling back in 2002.

#5 Posted by triple07 (1198 posts) -

I played it after playing Oblivion and loved it even though it was janky playing it now. The thing many people like about it is that it doesn't hold your hand like Oblivion and Skyrim, it just kind of plops you down and says go.

I'm a huge nerd though so I love the lore of the Elder Scrolls games and Morrowind has some fascinating lore to it. (Man some of the books in Morrowind are great)

So I guess my advice would be to try out some mods to enhance the gameplay and dig into the lore or go for broke and explore the world without any mods.

#6 Posted by Soapy86 (2638 posts) -

Old games look old, more news at 11.

#7 Edited by John1912 (1928 posts) -

@Apothos: "The framerate when in outdoor environments even with the sight distance set as low as possible was sub 25fps at all times. My understanding of computers isn't great..."

PC games are buggy. Epsecially old game, your hardware just doesnt like it, or well the game doesnt like your hardware. Just because your hardware can handle it doesnt mean it will run well. Esp older games, and Bethesda has always had some of the buggiest games.

Personally I really didnt much care for Morrowind. It was too slow and plodding. I tried several times but couldnt finish it.

#8 Edited by Marz (5667 posts) -

you didn't play Morrowind when it was launched, that's the problem pretty much.  

#9 Posted by FancySoapsMan (5855 posts) -

The best part about Morrowind is the crazy world it takes place in.

It's probably one of the most fascinating fantasy worlds there is (along with Planescape, in my opinion) especially when compared to TES IV and V which have more conventional settings.

The gameplay is ass and the graphics are dated (I still like them) but damn if it's not fun exploring the strange land of Morrowind.

#10 Posted by Apothos (8 posts) -

@emkeighcameron said:

MORROWIND IS GREAT AND YOU'RE A BAD PERSON FOR HATING IT

OK, it's old as hell and probably doesn't hold up anymore. But at the time, it was pretty sweet. I wouldn't play it again myself (with Skyrim/Oblivion being available now) but I played it 2-3 times, including expansions, when it first came out.

You have to see it as a history lesson, not a modern game. It was a fantastic step forward when it came out, and it set the standard of all its successors.

So I just missed my opportunity to enjoy it? That's disappointing.

Now, I didn't create this as a Morrowind is crap vs. Morrowind is better than skyrim and oblivion thread.

There are parts of Morrowind I enjoy.

I love how there are no quest markers. Characters usually say. "That thing is north I think but I could be slightly off." It makes you explore instead of going in a straight line like oblivion and skyrim do.

I like reading the dialogue as well.

Also man do I love the actual world. Morrowind has such a different feel from oblivion and skyrim. I would find dungeons and stuff because an area looked interesting and just happened to have a dungeon in it. The lack of the compass from the other games made what I would find unexpected. I didn't know if there would be anything in that valley or grove of tree sized mushrooms but damned if I wasn't going to find out.

#11 Posted by Apothos (8 posts) -

@ArbitraryWater said:

Why did you pay $19 for Morrowind? It's like $5 every other week or whatever. It took me a while to "get" Morrowind, but when I did I started enjoying it (only for Skyrim to immediately come out and distract me and I haven't been back since). It still has the whole "explore everything" thing that one would expect from an Elder Scrolls, but it's a slower, more deliberate game with a lot more old RPG-isms. If it's not for you, it's not for you, but I finally did see part of what made the game so enthralling back in 2002.

I'd had my eye on it for a week but there was never a sale so I just decided to go for it.

#12 Posted by cruxking (204 posts) -

its just the winds of change. older games just wont hold up forever, even if you try your hardest to forget all you know about modern game design it's still in your head all the time making you judge things. take for example the fact that you dont always hit things in morrowind. You can aim right at an enemy and swing but that doesnt mean a guaranteed hit. acceptable at the time but if a game did that now it would be looked upon harshly. its little things like that that will make enjoying morrowind kind of difficult without nostalgia. (kind of, not completely)

#13 Posted by Apothos (8 posts) -

So the consensus seems to be I just missed my opportunity to play it. If there's really nothing I'm missing then I guess I'm done with it. The world is great but it can't hold me if there's not a whole lot to do in it besides cast levitate 100 for 60 seconds and zoom around (just an example on the customization)

@cruxking said:

its just the winds of change. older games just wont hold up forever, even if you try your hardest to forget all you know about modern game design it's still in your head all the time making you judge things. take for example the fact that you dont always hit things in morrowind. You can aim right at an enemy and swing but that doesnt mean a guaranteed hit. acceptable at the time but if a game did that now it would be looked upon harshly. its little things like that that will make enjoying morrowind kind of difficult without nostalgia. (kind of, not completely)

weapons missing was a little jarring at first but it's just something I got used to. plus if you start out pumping points into agility it's never much of an issue.

#14 Posted by Soulreaverm (63 posts) -

I absolutely adore Morrowind but by modern standards it is basically unplayable. And by "modern" I mean since at least 5 years ago. If you can get past that, however, no Elder Scrolls game (or perhaps any game at all) before or since has done as fantastic a job at world-building. I really lived in Morrowind, for a very long time. When I walk up the road to Balmora it still feels like I'm coming home.

#15 Posted by Raven10 (1888 posts) -

Yea I can't imagine it holds up very well over a decade later. It looked outstanding at the time. Completely mind blowing. I think what people liked about it was just how free and open it was. There was just so much to do and no real direction. On one hand that made getting anywhere a real chore. When a quest giver says that a dungeon is somewhere South of the Northern most point in the game (actual quest) you just have to question the developer's sanity. But the world is far more interesting than Oblivion or Skyrim, and again, as much content as there is in those games, Morrowind just dwarfed them. And of course Daggerfall dwarfed Morrowind. The games have gotten smaller and smaller as time has gone on and more and more structured. Morrowind was the type of game where you sometimes needed a pen and paper to keep track of things. Today that may seem crazy, but people loved that type of thing at the time. And, yes, the bugs were atrocious. Just really awful. You got used to them though. Oh, and you could fly in Morrowind. I really miss that in the newer Elder Scrolls games. In Morrowind you literally could go anywhere cause you could fly over every mountain. If you got some speed potions you could fly across the world at rapid speeds. Now that towns are not part of the overworld that feature had to be removed and I really miss it.

#16 Posted by Apothos (8 posts) -

Thanks for the help everyone! I don't want to keep bashing my head against the game hoping something will eventually click. Glad I finally decided to ask.

#17 Posted by Eaxis (950 posts) -

I would say try Morrowind some more, then you might just want to stick with Oblivion or Skyrim since they are streamlined and improved for the better. Imagine what other games was out by then and how great it was before Oblivion and Skyrim.

#18 Posted by Demoskinos (15106 posts) -

I think you really had to have a love for it before you played the new games. Going back after playing and being used to Skyrim doesn't work I don't think. I can still go back because I know what to expect but if you already have built in expectations of what is "supposed" to be in a Elder Scrolls game its quite jarring how different each of the games are from each other.

#19 Posted by demonknightinuyasha (473 posts) -

I couldn't get into morrowind when it came out. I felt like it gave you too much freedom. I was completely lost on what was going on by the time I ended up in the first town.

#20 Edited by SagaciousJones (142 posts) -

@Apothos said:

tl;dr I need guidance on the aspects of Morrowind that seem to set it apart from Oblivion and Skyrim.

First of all, the lore and the writing of Morrowind is leaps and bounds above anything else the series, much less other RPGs, has to offer. The world of Vvardenfell is designed with a level of political complexity that puts Skyrim to shame. The balance between the three houses, the tribunal, the empire, and so many other figures is absolutely fascinating to learn about, and most quests involve you learning some completely new cultural facet along the way. I honestly put Morrowind right next to Planescape Torment and KOTOR2 on the scale of quality writing. Essays have been written on the depths of Michael Kirkbride's work, but the Elder Scrolls series has been spinning its wheels ever since as none of their writers have lived up to his ability.

http://fallingawkwardly.wordpress.com/2010/08/29/the-metaphysics-of-morrowind-part-1/

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/michael-kirkbrides-texts

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/forum-archives-michael-kirkbride

Second, the art and world design feels very different from anything else in the ES games. Skyrim and Oblivion have undeniably generic Tolkien-esque fantasy settings. There are horses, castles, trolls, giants, skeletons, knights, and so many other staples. In contrast, Morrowind actually feels like a completely alien world. You don't see rabbits or deer or anything you'd reasonably see on earth. The wildlife is populated with giant insects and floating jellyfish, and the architecture is made of magic-sculpted mushrooms and the husks of gigantic monsters. There are elves and orcs, sure, but miles away from genre standard: the elves are all dicks (with complex reasons why they are dicks) and the orcs are noble and misunderstood. Morrowind is creative and wondrous, and also oppressively bleak. It breaks cliche and tries new things in a genre that is so often highly derivative, and it's a shame that its sequels have turned away from that in favor of familiar territory.

Additionally, to address the gameplay, the dungeons actually have a feeling of crafted originality. How many times did you do that wolf/snake/etc. symbol puzzle in Skyrim? How often did you feel that you were running through swapped-out dungeon building blocks? Morrowind dungeons aren't exactly Zelda, but there's very often a unique and deliberate design behind most of them that make them feel actually distinctive as you explore them. I can remember the maps to several, years later. I can't remember a single Oblivion or Skyrim dungeon that wasn't part of the main story.

In summation, Morrowind has so many unique aspects to offer if you have the patience to look for them. There is no excuse for the terrible combat, but you shouldn't let that be a hurdle to experiencing Morrowind's brilliance.

#21 Posted by IBurningStar (2190 posts) -

I thought it was bad when it came out and I'm really not surprised to hear that it aged poorly.

#22 Posted by John1912 (1928 posts) -

@Apothos said:

So the consensus seems to be I just missed my opportunity to play it. If there's really nothing I'm missing then I guess I'm done with it.

TBH I dont know that it was all that much of a missed opportunity. I played it at launch, Was buggy as all shit. Charm wore out fast.

#23 Edited by SagaciousJones (142 posts) -

@Raven10 said:

But the world is far more interesting than Oblivion or Skyrim, and again, as much content as there is in those games, Morrowind just dwarfed them. And of course Daggerfall dwarfed Morrowind. The games have gotten smaller and smaller as time has gone on and more and more structured.

Ah, but so much of Daggerfall is procedurally generated. I like to be all elitist over how I loved Morrowind before the streamlined sequels because you just can't see the genius, but I'm ashamed that I really could not get back into Daggerfall for probably the exact same reasons that some people can't get back into Morrowind.

I like to use the following analogy:

Skyrim is the Hope Diamond.

Oblivion is an expensive diamond you got at a jewelers.

Morrowind is a diamond you pried from the wall of a cave yourself.

Daggerfall is a gigantic mossy boulder.

Edit: But really, don't force yourself to play it. We all different tastes and want different things from our games. If you want a more balanced ES-like RPG, try Fable 1/2, Fallout 3/New Vegas, Dragon's Dogma, or Kingdoms of Amalur.

#24 Posted by SlashDance (1841 posts) -

Much like Skyrim, Morrowind is a game you play mainly for the world it puts you in. A lot of people find a lot to love in the gameplay systems and in the combat, but I don't think that's ever been the main hook (although it was totally fine).

Graphics aren't great even for its time, and the design of the world and characters is pretty fucking strange at times, so if you just don't like it, all you have left is a pretty good RPG that probably aged really poorly.

#25 Edited by Xymox (2111 posts) -

@Apothos said:

Ever since I picked up Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

"Ever since I picked up Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion I'd heard"

Well, that could be the problem. I played Morrowind first, and I've accumulated around 300-500 hours into it. It was unlike anything else at the time for me... the only thing that had even come close to the formula for me was a game called Carnivores, where you hunted dinosaurs on a big open island which felt huge at the time. I had not seen much of the open world formula back then. Even in RPGs you'd mostly have games which even if you had forest settings, you were still crawling down corridors (think legend of grimrock).

Skyrim I've clocked around 200 hours in at this point and still going strong. To me it's basically "morrowind but better", but it’s lacking the “magical setting” and that feeling of “visiting another world” completely.

Jumping back is honestly hard at this point and I've only done so for historical value - like visiting Solsteim after playing skyrim, which was quite the experience, since you could see and feel where a lot of Skyrim came from. But I’ve also played so much Morrowind that at this point, I can’t walk 2 steps without breaking the game. Eventually you learn neat tricks and you know where all the items are etc…

The trend continues. After Skryim, I hopped into Oblivion - 60 hours. Fallout 3 - 30 hours. Bethesda games seem to have diminishing returns on their formula, at least that's how it is for me… The first one you play may taint your eyes and you’ll love it. Second one might improve and refine on the original formula and you might be okay with it. But hopping back? I think Fallout 3 is an absolutely terrible video game. And many speak very highly of it. I think I also just missed my opportunity to enjoy it. Even things like weapon durability that people defend as “hey man you’re in wasteland you gotta scavenge and like woaah” I’m like walking around feeling “No, this is absolutely terrible”. I did however find that glitched DLC armor that doesn’t degrade which made it a bit more playable than its unmodded state. Modern conveniences hinder the enjoyment of the older installations.

Which is funny because the thing that sets aside Morrowind from those games however is that the conveniences of modern gaming isn't there. I like conveniences, like fast travel. But they also take away from the experience. In Morrowind, fast travel would be a cheat in the console or accessible through winding paths of striders, teleportation and such, not just “click button and go”.

There’s just something about being told “go up the road to the west, take a left at the rock that looks like a monkey holding a spoon, crawl underneath the bridge and chant mooblegazorb 5 times, and you’ll find the passage to where you need to go.” And once inside you explore a huge cave, but end up at a locked door. After an hour of searching, you finally find the key under a desk somewhere in the same dungeon. And the game wouldn’t care if it was the critical path of the main quest, either. Games just don’t do that anymore, for good reason. But there’s just something there that isn’t in games like Skyrim. Setting out on a long adventure, not knowing what to find or if you’ll even find what you’re looking for. The return back home or to the quest giver. Being at the mercy of another world completely. Immersion. That was Morrowind to me. It’s much different than step 1. talk to quest giver, step 2. followit /fast travel to where the "content" is.

@SagaciousJones said:

There is no excuse for the terrible combat

The combat formula seems to be the biggest hurdle to some, so at least the OP does not have to deal with that.

And it's really just that, a formula. Dice rolls & math. It's not hard once you understand it - and then you won't have any problems. A case can be made for the fact that you shouldn’t have to, but really it makes sense even though it doesn't really tell you much when you're not hitting what you're attacking.

You could always get things like a constant effect restore stamina or "fatigue" (although why you'd want to restore your fatigue is beyond me...) item. An item that restores more stamina than is drained by running, jumping and swinging your sword, basically, so that you're not tired when you get into a fight - because staying at max stamina is probably one of the most important things to increase your hit chance.

The same effect, but more tedious (in modern game standards...) can be achieved by, well, not running around like a madman 24/7. You really have to take your time when playing Morrowind at first which is at QUITE the contrast to the point where you’re in your level 40’s, a werewolf, and literally jumping across 2-4 loading screens in one jump.

Then there's stuff like the fortify attack spell which is borderline over-powered. Enchanting a couple/few pieces with it will make you hit stuff with every single swing even at 5 points of skill in that specific weapon type. It's just math. Understand the math behind it (and you will from playing the game) and you'll eventually break the game.

#26 Edited by WinterSnowblind (7617 posts) -

The charm of Morrowind was that it really let you do whatever you want. There's little direction in the game and the only hint you're given at the start of the game in regards to the main quest is "make your way to Balmora and find a specific character". You're not given a huge arrow pointing to Balmora, you have to make your own way there and once you're in the city, you need to actually ask around to find out who this character is and where he lives. And that's just the first quest. It feels a lot more like a huge adventure than the railroad tracks you're plopped onto in Oblivion/Skyrim, with compasses and huge blinking arrows and signposts.

There's also a lot more optional things to find, the gameplay mechanics are a lot less restrictive, quests are more advanced and methodical. You might be asked to kill an NPC who for a certain guild/house/quest, only for him to be important to another quest chain, making it impossible to just "do everything" in one go. And thanks to the fact there's no spoken dialogue (or very little) the NPC's get to go into far more detail about the world and the surroundings. There's a lot more depth and complexity to the stories.

I can see why people who started the series with the later games would have difficulty going back. It's definitely dated in areas, but at the same time, you can also see how shallow and dumbed down the later games were in comparison. If something like graphics are the biggest reason you're not playing it, you're really doing yourself a disservice.

#27 Posted by Levio (1785 posts) -

@Soapy86 said:

Old games look old, more news at 11.

Dude where's the more news.

#28 Posted by Rowr (5824 posts) -

@emkeighcameron said:

MORROWIND IS GREAT AND YOU'RE A BAD PERSON FOR HATING IT

OK, it's old as hell and probably doesn't hold up anymore. But at the time, it was pretty sweet. I wouldn't play it again myself (with Skyrim/Oblivion being available now) but I played it 2-3 times, including expansions, when it first came out.

You have to see it as a history lesson, not a modern game. It was a fantastic step forward when it came out, and it set the standard of all its successors.

This is like the exact response i had in my head.

#29 Edited by clstirens (847 posts) -

This thread is really making me miss Morrowind (I still own it, but... Man, it IS hard to go back to).

It makes me realize what I disliked about Oblivion, and to that respect, Skyrim. The worlds are sorta part for the course, for one (Morrowind is DRIPPING with atmosphere). Also, I truly miss the wonder and excitement of picking up a quest, and navigating by compass/map (and how clever wording like "boots of blinding speed" actually had hilarious results).

#30 Posted by Humanity (9867 posts) -

Morrowind was extremely original while Oblivion and Skyrim are very typical fantasy RPG's and that is probably why a lot of people fell in love with it at time of release. When all you had at the time were Baldurs Gate and Neverwinter Nights, both good games in their own respects - the completely foreign land of Morrowind was a much needed breath of fresh air. It's somewhat disappointing that after the extremely generic high fantasy world of Oblivion, they decided to make Skyrim the way it is, which is just a step or two above your typical high fantasy art style. Hopefully they make a Morrowin 2 or something taking place in that part of the world, and maybe when that time comes they will learn to craft lifelike engaging NPC's and interesting quests in addition to a more satisfying combat system. Hell, maybe it won't be horribly broken and buggy at release!

#31 Edited by HistoryInRust (6380 posts) -

People like Morrowind for it's freedom, for the strange landscape, for the way the lore and the narrative interweave in really interesting ways.

People hate Morrowind because you don't connect on all your attacks, can fail to cast spells even if you have the magicka, can be easily overwhelmed by the sheer scope of the world and the austerity of it.

---

It's an incredible game, but accessibility is a common complaint people level at it. I've never heard of Morrowind running poorly, especially on a newer rig, but you really can't blame the texture glitches in your mod on the game itself.

I would hope you try and give it another go, but that's my fandom talking. You are supposed to feel powerless at the outset, but believe me, that turns around by the end. After some leveling you'll be unstoppable. I recommend the MADD Leveler mod, which streamlines the otherwise inflexible vanilla leveling system. I also recommend, if you go in for one more swing with the game, that you stop worrying about gold as an object early on. Until you're able to really defend yourself adequately, gold ought to be reserved for three things: Training (the highest priority), Cure Disease Potions, and Cure Blight Potions. Once you make your way through the main quest a bit, you won't need to worry about Disease or Blight, so you can focus entirely on training.

Just remember that Morrowind is unlike Oblivion and Skyrim. The world does not scale to you. Ever. At all. Which means you never know whether you'll be able to handle the challenge in front of you. Parts of Vvardenfell are fucking savage. And you will die. So quicksave often and train, train, train.

---

At the end of the day, Morrowind may simply not be your game. It's comparable to something like Dark Souls, which has a lot of depth, a huge, devoted fanbase, but will break most unsuspecting players quickly. You have to be willing to suffer a bit to reap its vast, exciting rewards.

#32 Posted by Danteveli (1210 posts) -

I guess people may not like the Morrowind but its one of best open worlds that we could play. Flora, Fauna and the architecture is great. I guess you should try running around and just doing random things in game for an hour or two. If that does not make you feel good then this is not a game for you.

#33 Posted by living4theday258 (680 posts) -

@kadash299 said:

New Skyrim DLC: $20.00.. Morrowind $19.00.. I played morrowind when it was not as dated, but FUCK that shit was bad. I Dont see the wonder either, and i LOVE every other TES game. I just straight up can NOT see what people saw. Clunky Combat (borderline unplayable), weird inventory, terrible dialogue(or none at all), and obviously shit smeared graphics. I am not a fan

Thats about how I felt about Morrowind.

#34 Posted by Superfriend (1579 posts) -

@kadash299 said:

I played morrowind when it was not as dated, but FUCK that shit was bad. I Dont see the wonder either, and i LOVE every other TES game. I just straight up can NOT see what people saw. Clunky Combat (borderline unplayable), weird inventory, terrible dialogue(or none at all), and obviously shit smeared graphics. I am not a fan

Let me guess: By "every other TES game" you mean Oblivion and Skyrim? Compared to Arena and Daggerfall I thought Morrowind was a huge step forward. The combat made a lot more sense in Morrowind and they removed the stupid ass mouse swinging. Of course the world and some of the little stories in that world were absolutely amazing at the time. Some of it still holds up and some things, like the text based dialogue and the very dice roll heavy combat depend on your personal preferences.

I guess the lesson here is: Play games when they are new. And if you play them 10+ years after release, be prepared for some shit to happen. Morrowind wasn´t exactly the most stable and bug free game back in 2002 and while it did get patched and there are some fan patches out there, you can´t expect it to run flawlessly on modern machines. I absolutely loved Morrowind when it was new and I was willing to look past some real shitty technical issues. I still feel that way with Bethesda games and to be honest they have gotten quite a bit better about the tech stuff.

#35 Posted by Cretaceous_Bob (527 posts) -

@Apothos:

Many of the graphics overall packages have very intense shaders that 1) I don't really like to use because shaders added by mods are applied to the entire screen, which includes the interface, and 2) REALLY fuck up the framerate.

I spent a ton of hours a couple years ago fucking with graphics mods to get Morrowind looking as good as it could with a decent framerate on my machine. But there's no question that it can be made to look MUCH better with available mods and run just fine. I had all the requisite mods for textures, character models, faces, and that graphics program that enabled you to control draw distance and 2D grass, and as someone who played a shitton of Morrowind in its original form and none since, looking out over a landscape that almost looked as good as Oblivion but was in Morrowind was fucking amazing.

But even beyond trying to fuddle with that mess, the bigger problem is that Morrowind can be made much more playable with a bunch of gameplay and balance changes that are available as mods, but unless you've already played the game extensively, you don't really know what you need to download to fix it.

And even beyond that, most of the fun of Morrowind is finding stuff out for yourself. There are things out there in Morrowind for you to discover that the game never really makes clear to you, unlike Oblivion or Skyrim. The flipside of this is just reading about the game can ruin the fun for you. Part of the gameplay arc is it starts out really hard, which prompts you to be creative and inventive, leading you to discover ways to completely break the balance of the game. I don't think it was designed that way, but it turned out really fun, and no Elder Scrolls game since has come close to doing that. The problem with that is I could very easily tell you a fact about the game you could exploit, but just doing it isn't the fun. The fun of Morrowind is finding ways to interact with and discover the game world.

It's kind of too much of a hurdle to get to all the amazing stuff in Morrowind, but the fact is if the game just had a real retail graphics overhaul and fixed some interface stuff, it would be just as amazing today as it was the day it came out. There really is something incredible in there.

#36 Posted by Metzo_Paino (321 posts) -

I tried giving Morrowind a go after enjoying Oblivion and didn't have a nice experience.

Graphics were ugly but I could get past those. The lack of voice over work I struggled with however, plus the game is pretty vague and difficult.

Shame because the world seemed really interesting. I find most early 3D games don't hold up very well if you didn't play them at the time.

#37 Posted by mylifeforAiur (3489 posts) -
#38 Edited by Tennmuerti (8172 posts) -

In addition to the many reasons that people have already advanced why Morrowind is so loved there is two other major ones I find myself recalling:

There are frequent crossovers and connections between guild and faction quests in Morrowind. And you can easily screw yourself over on progression with one of them while doing stuff for some other faction/guild. This intertwined system was much loved by a lot of people as it created a more believable situation/world further adding to other aspects that made Morrowind so immersive at the time. You simply couldn't be the master of every guild and the head of every house. You had to pick your sides eventually. Which is why Oblivion and Skyrim are criticized to this day by some for taking the "be head of everything" approach.

Mods. It might seem kind of silly to say that mods made Morrowind so unique, but they did for two reasons. At the time it was an unprecedented degree of modability in a huge world that was also very accessible to pretty much anyone, you didn't have to have any background in modding, programming, or anything to just jump in, any average joe could do it. Which was wonderful and created a massive community and an insane amount of new content.

This brings up to the insane amounts of new content. Sure there are a huge amount of mods for both Oblivion and Skyrim, but the work done on Morrowind by people simply dwarfs everything else in both numbers and scope of the mods. People created whole new worlds and campaigns to adventure in, total conversions, new exciting and imaginative dungeons, or radically changed the existing world. Anyone buying Morrowind on PC at the time, and interested in mods basically had an almost bottomless well to go to, it was like having a dozen games at your fingertips for the price of one. People spent years with that one single game, so it's not surprising it left such a lasting impression.

Combining the two factors above: I played through both Skyrim and Oblivion once, and did everything there was to do. Morrowind I payed through at least three times, each time a very different experience both in terms of seeing the varied faction content and due to the evolving and massive amount of mods, that made Morrowind even more different to play through each time.

#39 Edited by ll_Exile_ll (1873 posts) -

What is with the abundance of new accounts lately who are perplexed about not being blown away by decade plus old games after playing them for the first time in 2013? I'll say the same thing here that I've said in the other threads.

It is impossible to have the same appreciation for something playing it well after the fact as those who played it when it was new. Especially if you've played improved sequels first.

It's the same reason why I couldn't really get into the first Persona game, despite loving P3 and P4. It's just not the same playing something that old for the first time in 2013, and even more so if you've played subsequent games in the series previously. There is no secret element of the game you are missing, no hidden moment where your opinion will do a 180. Sometimes you'll just have to accept that you missed your opportunity to truly enjoy a specific game that many hold as a classic.

Obviously it is still possible to make an effort and find some enjoyment out of Morrowind, or in my case Persona, but being able to pick it up and immediately love it is usually not in the cards in these types of situations, especially when you go in with the attitude of "I am going to find out why people love this game so much." I am amazed that people still can't understand this.

EDIT: I am not making a judgement based on the fact that you are a new account, only pointing out that there have been several other instances of threads similar to this one (but with a different game as the topic) recently that also had new accounts as the OP.

#40 Posted by punkxblaze (2990 posts) -

As I'm sure a lot of people have already said (I did not take the time to read through some of the more lengthy replies), the draw to Morrowind lies in two major points. Point one, it is much more an old school computer RPG than Oblivion or Skyrim, both of which streamlined (some would say dumbed down, but I'm an optimist) a lot of systems in Morrowind, and it is very much an explore and figure your own shit out game, what with a lack of quest markers and conveniences like fast travel (aside from Silt Striders. Why walk when you can ride?).

Second point is there's just so much in that world. Partially due to the lower cost of asset generation of lack of full voice acting in the early 2000s, Morrowind just plain has a wider breadth of content than either of its successors. More armor, more weapons, more skills and quests, two excellent expansions, and almost all the NPCs have paragraphs of shit to say, even if a lot of it is the same paragraph of shit. The dialogue options are numerous to an almost overwhelming level compared to TES IV and V, and the world is just generally very alien and cool to explore.

However, the caveat is the fact that, yeah, it's aged really poorly in a lot of respects. If you can swallow the sort of shitty combat, it's less bad, but there are still a lot of hurdles to cross if you want to enjoy it compared to Oblivion or Skyrim. If you don't love Morrowind, at this point, I don't think anyone can blame you, but it's a damn shame, because it's a great game on many levels.

#41 Edited by aquamarin (555 posts) -

There have got to be mods to spruce this game up, right? It's the oldest game in the series that's probably still worth playing today and everything that is going on around you in that game is just soaked in arcane weirdness, something that intentionally or not, they veered away from in Oblivion since it was fully voiced and more streamlined. That's it I'm installing it.

#42 Edited by Apothos (8 posts) -

@ll_Exile_ll said:

What is with the abundance of new accounts lately who are perplexed about not being blown away by decade plus old games after playing them for the first time in 2013? I'll say the same thing here that I've said in the other threads.

It is impossible to have the same appreciation for something playing it well after the fact as those who played it when it was new. Especially if you've played improved sequels first.

It's the same reason why I couldn't really get into the first Persona game, despite loving P3 and P4. It's just not the same playing something that old for the first time in 2013, and even more so if you've played subsequent games in the series previously. There is no secret element of the game you are missing, no hidden moment where your opinion will do a 180. Sometimes you'll just have to accept that you missed your opportunity to truly enjoy a specific game that many hold as a classic.

Obviously it is still possible to make an effort and find some enjoyment out of Morrowind, or in my case Persona, but being able to pick it up and immediately love it is usually not in the cards in these types of situations, especially when you go in with the attitude of "I am going to find out why people love this game so much." I am amazed that people still can't understand this.

EDIT: I am not making a judgement based on the fact that you are a new account, only pointing out that there have been several other instances of threads similar to this one (but with a different game as the topic) recently that also had new accounts as the OP.

I've been coming to the site for years but never really cared to make an account until now. My want to love Morrowind spurred me to make the account and seek advice and give my current thoughts on it. I don't read threads much so I didn't know new accounts being made was such an issue. Not trying to start anything, I was legitimately curious as to why Morrowind was so beloved when I couldn't find it after 10 hours of gameplay.

Now that I actually have an account I'm going to pay more attention to the forums and share insight etc and generally contribute to the community.

Sorry if this is an issue.

Also, I love older games. Another reason why I was so interested in Morrowind was because it wouldn't be as polished as modern games and would have incredibly different systems. Morrowind just happens to not be a game for me. I'm not saying it's bad at all. It's just personal taste. I played Oblivion at least 5 times. Oblivion is sort of my Morrowind. I love it to pieces. It's more in the vein of morrowind than skyrim so I was perplexed as to why I couldn't get into morrowind.

Also, you come off as incredibly hostile in your post. It's a little deterring and makes me feel like I need to defend myself.

#43 Posted by tread311 (357 posts) -

At it's release being dropped into that world was pretty amazing. So much interesting stuff to see and every new area you reach feels like a whole new place.

#44 Posted by Phr4nk0 (349 posts) -

I'm with you, I played Morrowind (upon release) and thought it was technically impressive but nothing in it held my attention for long. Personally I think it has been over-hyped and it isn't that great of a game. It was amazing technically at the time and was a real stepping stone to giving us Oblivion and Skyrim but it just didn't grab me.

Not that I didn't try, over 2 or 3 years I think I must have tried and started over 10 different games and always petered out after 10 hours or less. Oblivion didn't grab me at first either mind you, it took me 2 or 3 restarts of less than 10 hours before the bug grabbed me. Skyrim took hold straight away and is the ultimate Elder Scrolls game, anyone claiming Morrowind still holds that torch is just living in the past and huffing that sweet nostalgia fumes.

#45 Posted by project343 (2837 posts) -

I played Morrowind in... 2005? In either case, I had a terrible time. While I can completely respect the arguments for it, my one problem was the complete disconnect in investing you into the first-person perspective, but then having the RPG element of 'accuracy' juxtapose horribly with that first-person, naturally-visceral view. You end up slashing swords at dudes, clearly seeing the hits land, then having it 'miss.' This is fine in most other RPGs where you are so disconnected from the action that you might as well be a pile of stats, but this straddled line just didn't work for me.

My favourite Elder Scrolls game will always be Oblivion. That game hit a nice marriage between giving you a sensible amount of game-breaking RPG freedom (seemingly Morrowind's core charm) and polish (arguably Skyrim's core charm).

#46 Posted by ll_Exile_ll (1873 posts) -

@Apothos said:

I've been coming to the site for years but never really cared to make an account until now. My want to love Morrowind spurred me to make the account and seek advice and give my current thoughts on it. I don't read threads much so I didn't know new accounts being made was such an issue. Not trying to start anything, I was legitimately curious as to why Morrowind was so beloved when I couldn't find it after 10 hours of gameplay.

Now that I actually have an account I'm going to pay more attention to the forums and share insight etc and generally contribute to the community.

Sorry if this is an issue.

Also, I love older games. Another reason why I was so interested in Morrowind was because it wouldn't be as polished as modern games and would have incredibly different systems. Morrowind just happens to not be a game for me. I'm not saying it's bad at all. It's just personal taste. I played Oblivion at least 5 times. Oblivion is sort of my Morrowind. I love it to pieces. It's more in the vein of morrowind than skyrim so I was perplexed as to why I couldn't get into morrowind.

Also, you come off as incredibly hostile in your post. It's a little deterring and makes me feel like I need to defend myself.

No, it's not an issue, and sorry about the hostility, it wasn't intended. I was merely making an observation that it seemed odd that recently many people who haven't engaged in the forums before decided to begin by making a post about their first experience with an older game and feeling like it didn't live up to the hype. I am not one to assign value to someone's opinion based one when they decided to make an account, it was just an observation. I guess my hostile tone was probably a result of me addressing the concept as a whole and net necessarily your post in particular, so I apologize that I came off as rude to you personally. Your post was much better constructed than some others I've seen on this kind of topic, so I shouldn't have just lumped you in with them.

The point I was trying to make is that sometimes you simply can't go back. Had you played Morrowind at a different time in your gaming life, you may have been able to have the same amazing experience as others, but at this point it is just far too late for that, which is just an unfortunate truth. Unless you can somehow erase your knowledge of the last 10 years of video game advancements and your personal experience with future Elder Scrolls games, you just will never be able to experience Morrowind the way those that played it originally did.

I do find it an interesting discussion though, why some games seem to hold up indefinitely while others (which were just as good when they first came out), seem like a chore to play today. I played games like Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy VI well after the fact and absolutely loved them, but other games from around the same time, Persona like I mentioned before, were a real turn off almost immediately. Maybe it's because I love the modern Persona games and couldn't give two shits about anything Square Enix has done in the past 10 years.

#47 Posted by The_Ruiner (1123 posts) -

I was thinking of picking it up too, but the Dave and Vinny live stream turned me away...just seems too dated..

#48 Edited by RollingZeppelin (2078 posts) -

@Apothos: I'm not sure if you've given up on it, or if someone else has solved your problem with the stun system, and I don't feel like reading through every post in this thread to find out, BUT in order to stop getting knocked down by a punchin' dude just take some stamina potions and refill that shit. Hand to hand takes away your stamina more than it does your health and once it's gone you start getting knocked down.

#49 Posted by Irishdoom (333 posts) -

I'm thinking of trying one of the older Elder Scrolls (see what I did there?) games after having a good time in Skyrim. So should I go all the way back to Morrowind? (Keep in mind I'm an older gamer, grew up on the Odyssey2, so "bad graphics" might not do me in.) Or am I better off just doing Oblivion and being done with it? Heck, is there any way to go back to even Daggerfall or Arena at this point?

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