Preliminary Thoughts

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#1 Posted by spiralcut (118 posts) -

I'm going to start this off by saying that I am absolutely in love with this game in its current state.

I want to make that clear upfront, as I played on and off in the beta and was ready to be letdown. The controls even a month ago were sluggish, the combat felt floaty, the game as a whole felt very linear, and nothing seemed to be intuitive.

I am happy to announce that Bethesda/Zenimax have taken late-Beta user critiques to heart and made some rather substantial changes that have really brightened the game up for me. The have added NPC collision, something that hasn't been done right in nearly enough MMO's, have made the 'starter' island less streamlined and entirely optional, and really made the game feel like a tight first-person adventure game that you just happen to be playing with hundreds, nay thousands of other duders.

Starter island complaints

The first major issue that they resolved was the MMO convention that you are stuck in a starting area and need to go through a fairly linear questline before you get to the 'actual' game. I remember starting my first character in WoW as a human, and being utterly lost in the world. However once I saw through the illusion and scope of the world, I quickly realized that it was a very linear progression I was expected to take or die painfully at the hands of lvl 3 boars and Defias bandits. Rift went the other direction, by creating a 30 minute linear quest area that was strictly designed to teach you the basics before dumping you into the overworld.

The 'starter' island of the Aldmeri Dominion, one of the three factions in Elder Scrolls Online.

ESO cuts the middle, starting you in an linear instanced zone to teach you the basics, but only for about 10 minutes or so. Once you are done with that you are dumped into your first quest area and let loose to cause havoc upon Nirn. But lo! About 20 feet away there is an NPC that will take you to a 'special' zone built solely for your faction, that sets you up with quite a bit of backstory and tasty tasty lore. The catch is, this area is generally built around lvl 4 characters, meaning most enemies don't go above that level, keeping it nice and safe for the learning player. While you might stumble across a pack of 2-4 enemies who outlevel you by quite a bit in the main world, this area won't present anything of the sort. I encountered no groups of enemies larger than 2 through the entire zone.

And don't think it isn't a large zone. It took me about 10 minutes to run from one side to the other on foot, using my sprint ability as often as I could. That's quite a substantial amount of real estate to get your feet wet in. The other cool fact that underlays this area is that, while there is a 'main' questline in the area, as in most MMO's there are plenty of side quests for you to sink your teeth into. However there are no breadcrumb quests that will send you to the vast majority of these quests, you need to go looking for them. Once you are close, an icon will display on your map and on your compass and will guide you to the local questgiver. Sometimes there isn't an associated quest with a landmark, but some other type of XP/loot/reward that still incentivises deep exploration.

The far larger early level zone for the Aldmeri Dominion.

The thing is this whole experience used to be forced on the player, that's where you were dumped after you left the tutorial instance. This meant that the first 4-5 hours of gameplay was one extended n00b zone, with no real danger for experienced MMO players who wanted to see Nirn in all of its glory. I am a total completionist and immediately jumped back into this mandatory area, but I can see some players really taking offense to being forced to deal with this type of content.

Controls and Combat

The next point that gives me great hope is the feel of this game now as opposed to a few months ago. Before the introduction of NPC collision the combat didn't have a very good feel. I have fond memories of Skyrim, running up to enemies and shield bashing them into oblivion before cutting them down with my sword. But in MMO's the status quo allows for NPC clipping to make for more 'fluid' game interaction. The problem is that the general appeal to this game was the promise of the first person adventure alongside the camaraderie of traditional MMO's, which does not feel right when you clip through the big bad at the end of a dungeon. The decision to implement NPC collision suddenly made the adventure come alive! NPC's run into combat range and come to a halt, and we pleasantly bash one anothers brains into nonexistence.

UI/Feedback

A final hurdle that gives me a good feeling about this product is the implementation of new icons/warnings/features that highlight MMO mechanics without taking away from my quest to be the greatest warrior-mage in all of Tamriel! Something as simple as highlighting text on my character screen when I've stacked too much of one stat (and am now suffering diminishing returns) reminds me that I am playing an MMO instead of taking away from my immersion. They have rather seamlessly incorporated traditional MMO mechanics in such a way that it does not create a burden on my enjoyment, which is a lesson hard won in WoW, Rift, and SWTOR.

Basically that's my write up of my first day in-game, about 14 hours yesterday. I cannot help myself when a good MMO comes along and sweeps me off my feet, and I'm very happy I gave this one the chance it deserved.

You can find me in-game @EggshellSkull

#2 Edited by kqedequalsvolvo (45 posts) -

Cheers for that, really informative. I was not 100% after my experiences with the beta but I still came out the other side feeling like I was more inclined to give it a go when it came out than not. Excited to hear that they've seemingly taken the critiques and comments of the beta on board. Still weighing up whether the pre-order/early access bonuses are worth it though...

#3 Posted by Bollard (5598 posts) -

Seems like a nice write up, and I like those maps. Unfortunately I never want to see another human in my ES game, let alone thousands of them so this one is gunna be a pass for me.

#4 Posted by Veektarius (4865 posts) -

@bollard: I'm not quite that hardcore about it, but there were way too many of them for my taste. I said that I would only play this game A) Well after release so that the starter areas have cleared out or B) If they instanced indoor areas. I also had serious issues with the limited number of activated abilities. Guild Wars had 8 - that would be fine. Five is not.

#5 Edited by spiralcut (118 posts) -

@veektarius: There is a subtle nuance that was lost on me regarding skills. At lvl 15 you have 10 skills (as you get another weapon you can quick-swap from, and a whole new bar) Plus you have an ultimate slot, bound to 'R', which can really define a whole new style of combat. So you really start gaining some fluidity that way.

#6 Posted by Veektarius (4865 posts) -

@spiralcut: Ah, that's good to know. I think I only made it to level 12 or so when I played.

#7 Edited by spiralcut (118 posts) -

@veektarius: It really feels great when you can cause destruction from a distance then whip out a massive 2-hand sword once they get close.

#8 Edited by EXTomar (4760 posts) -

No comment on the communication systems. These games die if it is too difficult to coordinate and synchronize let alone ask "Which way?"

#9 Posted by spiralcut (118 posts) -

@extomar: So there is the standard zone, say, yell, etc. You can also be in up to 5 guilds at once, which is great for communication with large bodies all at once. As far as questing goes you can add friends by an in-game menu, or people in the open world through a quick radial menu. Not bad really.

#10 Posted by Reisz (1507 posts) -

This is just not the paycheck for me to be doubling down on MMO's but it's totally on my Radar after playing that beta. I'm really surprised how much disdain there is for the game out there. Calling it Elder Scrolls Online my have been a mistake, people can't seem to make up their minds on what their expectations should be.

#11 Posted by WinterSnowblind (7617 posts) -

@reisz said:

This is just not the paycheck for me to be doubling down on MMO's but it's totally on my Radar after playing that beta. I'm really surprised how much disdain there is for the game out there. Calling it Elder Scrolls Online my have been a mistake, people can't seem to make up their minds on what their expectations should be.

As an MMO, it has some pretty unique features and is generally a pretty solid experience. As an Elder Scrolls game, it doesn't come close to providing the type of gameplay or features you'd expect and feels like a shaky knock-off made by a second rate developer trying to emulate the series.

#12 Posted by shinjin977 (761 posts) -

its a pretty run of the mill mmo. As an elder scroll games, its pretty bad. I will pass on this after what I played in the beta.

#13 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

The lowest price for ESO around my parts is like 80$, and I believe I'd need to get at least one gametime card ontop of that to be able to play, since I don't have a credit card for a proper sub, which is yet another 40$. In no way am I willing to pay 120$ for what I've played of the beta. It seemed like a fine enough game, if one is into such things, but I'd only have given it a shot at a lower friction entry price. If it was 60$ pay-to-play in the vein of Guild Wars 2, I'd have totally gotten it. Oh well...

Might try Wildstar though, since it lets me pay its subscription fee with in-game currency. It would be interesting to see if they actually balanced it so, that active players *play for free*. Either way though. New MMOs asking for a sub these days doesn't fly anymore, after Guild Wars 2 has proven that it can deliver a fully fledged MMO experience without such.

Dunno man. If I'm going to play a MMO this year, it's going to be Warlords of Draenor. Original flavor is still my favorite. And finally my ugly ass troll hunter will get his much needed facelift. Unless of course, Everquest Next comes out, and proves to be everything it promises to be. I might not feel the need to revisit my old friends in Azeroth.

#14 Posted by Death_Burnout (3797 posts) -

I really like it, as somewhat of an ES die-hard I'm thrilled that they have captured atmosphere and look perfectly. Just seeing Sheogorath makes me giddy. You could go back and see that I was furious when this was first announced and I have turned a full 180 since then.

Honestly the only thing I don't like about it other than poor animation quality, is that other people are playing it. Like that is straight up still the principle issue: Other people in your Elder Scrolls game = No good. I can ignore it enough in the open world but in public dungeons? Christ almighty...

It's a shame other people are sparing no expense to shit all over it regardless of what it's like though, but hey, that was me initially.

#15 Edited by subyman (626 posts) -

@shinjin977 said:

its a pretty run of the mill mmo. As an elder scroll games, its pretty bad. I will pass on this after what I played in the beta.

No its not... I've played tons of MMOs and ESO is the first in a long time to do something a bit different. It feels a lot different than the Wow, Rift, Tera, Aeon, Warhammer, etc etc MMOs that come out every six months. This is the first game in a long time that I feel I can actually enjoy the story and environments as I level up. It will be interesting to see how the end game turns out.

I'm both a ES fan and a disenfranchised MMO fan. I think they split the difference quite nicely with the game, much more so than I thought they would when I first heard about the game. The only major complaint I have is them using the idiotic "chosen one" plot line. I wish MMO developers would learn that using a "chosen one" story when everyone in the entire game is a "chosen one" doesn't quite fit...

#16 Edited by EXTomar (4760 posts) -

@subyman said:

@shinjin977 said:

its a pretty run of the mill mmo. As an elder scroll games, its pretty bad. I will pass on this after what I played in the beta.

No its not... I've played tons of MMOs and ESO is the first in a long time to do something a bit different. It feels a lot different than the Wow, Rift, Tera, Aeon, Warhammer, etc etc MMOs that come out every six months. This is the first game in a long time that I feel I can actually enjoy the story and environments as I level up. It will be interesting to see how the end game turns out.

I'm both a ES fan and a disenfranchised MMO fan. I think they split the difference quite nicely with the game, much more so than I thought they would when I first heard about the game. The only major complaint I have is them using the idiotic "chosen one" plot line. I wish MMO developers would learn that using a "chosen one" story when everyone in the entire game is a "chosen one" doesn't quite fit...

I would assume in your "tons of MMOs" experience you would have one time "actually enjoyed the story and environments as I leveled up" in WoW, Rift, Tera, Aeon, Warhammer as well. Exactly what about this fantasy MMORPG is so dramatically different? It is not surprising people are skeptical because this game has the "idiotic chosen one plot line" many of the others ones have too. Even with the details in this post, ESO still seems to have the same trappings all other Fantasy MMORPGs but with a different paint. And worse, it sounds like it is a MMO from about 2-4 years ago.

Wildstar and the next stage of WoW stuff will come out in June and I will not be surprised if ESO is suddenly a ghost town by then.

#17 Edited by shinjin977 (761 posts) -

@subyman: I see your point but everything done in this game have already been done, sometimes better, in other mmos. GW2 have the living story, basically its just world changing events that happen every month, for example this month they went ahead and destroy the hub town. C9 have combat as deep as DMC or any action games. Wow is still probably simply the best fantasy MMO to date and I quit that game 7 years ago. This game still employs the trinity system and the combat does not feel as good as Tera, Wow or C9. I respect your opinion but I will have to disagree.

#18 Edited by spiralcut (118 posts) -

@extomar: It's easy to be cynical without experiencing the content, but I can corroborate what @subyman said, this game really does "split the difference" and make me feel like I'm playing an epic first person game with great MMO hooks. Yea the storyline is the 'Chosen One" trope, but that's what makes it so good! And the storyline doesn't focus too heavily on group content until high levels. The major group thing to do is PvP, and that really makes you feel like you are in an MMO.

As far as your jab about enjoying MMO's, I can also say that I loved WoW, Rift, and SWTOR the first time I played through them. I had an active WoW account until a few weeks back, and may even sub again to play through the new content, but I will return to ESO for it's presentation, promised future story additions, PvP, and great feel. That's what makes it different. It doesn't just promise, like Rift, to dethrone WoW, in fact it doesn't say anything about doing such a thing. The game speaks for itself, which is why poo pooing it without playing it just doesn't reflect the reality of the shipped product.

If you like Elder Scrolls or MMO's this one is worth a shot. If not, there are plenty of people shooting one another in the face in Titanfall.

#19 Edited by mao16 (107 posts) -

I've been in a lot of the earlier betas and from my current experience (around lvl 10 cause of work). Most of my major gripes with the game have been fixed now.

Combat: They added npc collision, combat has been tightened up and response times for attacks no longer have noticeable delays, animations and sounds have been improved.

UI: Addons have already fixed almost all the problems / lack of information.

Lag: The servers seem to be holding up well even as everyone who pre-ordered has been let in today, this is huge for the combat as it's still working as intended even under load.

It's a good themepark mmo with excellent story and voice acting (better than actual elder scrolls game) with a solid "action/ non target locked" combat system. The game draws large elements from elder scrolls games but it is not an actual one gameplay wise, it's a themepark mmo first. The elder scrolls lore and world however is fantastic and it nails the feel. It also has the best crafting system I've seen in a long time. All gear can be crafted and crafting will be viable if not better then drops. Think a much deeper version of Skyrim's crafting system in a mmo. The game also has Dark Age of Camelot style pvp in an area larger than the rendition of Cyrodiil in Oblivion. Pvp is similar to how Guild Wars 2 did it but with much more depth, is bigger and better all around. Oh and you can use any skill or gear in the game regardless of your class with the exception of a small number class specific skills. Classes are templates and do not define your role. There are actual healer skill lines and you will need them for both pve and pvp. The game has legs and is solid in general.

#20 Edited by Grimmie92 (150 posts) -

@seppli: GW2 didnt prove much of anything, their model worked fine to launch a game and it seems they have enough money in the bank to make new content every few months.. but ESO is trying to roll content every 3-4 weeks which requires full time programmers designers testers etc, ill happily do my part to pay their wages if they keep their word about regular content for free.

Theyre also offering up to 6 month game time at a reduced cost after launch so maybe you could do a 1 time payment so you dont have to buy game cards all the time?

#21 Edited by Evilsbane (4621 posts) -

The addition of collision for NPCs and enemy's is extremely exciting, it was literally the biggest thing that I did not like when I played the beta.

#22 Posted by Evilsbane (4621 posts) -

@mao16 said:

The game also has Dark Age of Camelot style pvp solid in general.

*Heavy Breathing* That sounds amazing.

#23 Posted by Grimmie92 (150 posts) -

@extomar: the fact that it has a "chosen one" setting isnt because its an MMO, its because its an Elder Scrolls game, every elder scrolls game you are some kind of descendent of a great and powerful being or are somehow given powers above the average man.. which is fine, in a land like tamriel, it is acceptable that you are not the only powerful sorceror.

you talk about this as a fantasy MMORPG but TES games have always been far too specific to call ir "run of the mill" or "generic" the amount of lore in this series is absolutely incredible, i spent something like 4 hours in skyrim one time reading only a small selection of the lore books i had collected, the world of ESO is a living, breathing thing, NPCs talk to eachother ive come across unmarked npcs arguing on the summerset isles as a khajit picked a herb out of the ground and an extremely racist high elf wanted him beheaded.

If you play this game as any other MMO where you skip all the beautifully voiced dialogue and mainline the story quests you will have a bad time for sure, but this game has so much more to offer than that!

On a side note, i played about 5 hours of Wildstar last weekend, it is the dullest most generic MMO ive ever played, sure its little quirky with its art style and curse words but the gameplay is just as convoluted as WoW, we need to rise above this sort of thing, and ESO is at least trying something a little different.

#24 Edited by spiralcut (118 posts) -

@evilsbane: Just imagine... You get a cry for help in guild chat that you are about to lose a keep, which is crucial to protecting a real life Elder Scroll and all of the power that pertains. You come rushing to the defense to discover the keep is overrun with dirty Breton and Redguard scoundrels. Your forces are retreating to make a stand near the Elder Scroll, forming up a siege line of ballistas to stem the advance. The enemy forces are swarming across the land, putting up trebuchets and catapults to harass the defenders while skirmishers dart through the shadows to take out your healers.

It's so freaking scenic and engaging all at once, like Braveheart with elves! The best feeling in the game is intercepting an assassin as a sorcerer, whacking them away with your staff and sending them flying off a tower/battlement.

#25 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@grimmie92 said:

@seppli: GW2 didnt prove much of anything, their model worked fine to launch a game and it seems they have enough money in the bank to make new content every few months.. but ESO is trying to roll content every 3-4 weeks which requires full time programmers designers testers etc, ill happily do my part to pay their wages if they keep their word about regular content for free.

Theyre also offering up to 6 month game time at a reduced cost after launch so maybe you could do a 1 time payment so you dont have to buy game cards all the time?

Erm... you must not have paid attention to GW2's living story, which released new content every 2 weeks. Plus all the holiday events. New PvP arenas. Good knows what. Personally, I've not stuck around for it, but ArenaNet certainly has proven that a developer doesn't need their MMO to have a subscription model to properly support it. GW2 has seen more content support than most sub MMOs.

Also ESO will go free 2 play within a year. I'd be surprised if it doesn't.

#26 Posted by Grimmie92 (150 posts) -

@seppli: i did the event stuff, that was all pretty basic reskins and a few quests, yes theyve done a few updates but im pretty sure it wasnt every 2 weeks cos i played that game for 3 months after launch and there was nothing new to do after the first 2 weeks than farm items for legendary item crafting. their new DLC and stuff seems interesting but the game hasnt progressed forwards, just sideways.. the weapon i used when i quit, is still the best weapon available in the game, so essentially there is no reason to experience the new content cos there is nothing worthwhile in it to be had. it certainly did get good support, im not saying it didnt, but i think you put it on a bit too high a pedestal saying there is no need for subs ever again because GW2 exists.

Also wishing failure on a game by claiming it will go F2P is pretty scummy, especially coming from someone who hasnt played it and therefore has no right to be judging the quality or life expectancy.

#27 Edited by me3639 (1765 posts) -

I watched a youtube Lets play from the start last night. He made comments the same as you that it isnt like the beta and is much more polished. I enjoyed watching the chaos of a new game being launched as i have never been a part of the mmo scene, but while i would like to jump in and play its not going to hold my attention for a monthly fee. When, if, it ever becomes FTP then i would check it out.

#28 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

I watched some streams the last days and I am very interested. It looks way better than in the Beta which I played before. I will jump in toorrow and even if its just for the first 30 days which are free^^

#29 Posted by Grimmie92 (150 posts) -

@me3639: im sure boxed copies will go cheap in a few months and the game comes with a months free gametime, you could give it a go that way..? i think everyone who is playing it is hopeful that it never goes F2P.

#30 Posted by spiralcut (118 posts) -

@grimmie92: You are totally right, the devs have not designed this game to be in the FTP model. It's a solid subscription MMO that will make gobs of money for years because it has a solid team behind it who knows their audience. It's not Trion or some other studio with a reputation on cutting some corners to get by, Bethesda/Zenimax is a giant who doesn't half ass their projects.

#31 Posted by Grimmie92 (150 posts) -

@darji: feel free to contact us ingame for a guild invite if you like, we have 12 Giant Bomb users atm, a small family, but we party hard!

#32 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

@grimmie92 said:

@darji: feel free to contact us ingame for a guild invite if you like, we have 12 Giant Bomb users atm, a small family, but we party hard!

Can I chose Servers? Because I live in Germany and I guess you are all on US server^^

But thx for the invite^^

#33 Posted by Grimmie92 (150 posts) -

@darji: you can play on the US server if you wish, im playing in New Zealand and atm all regions are playing on the NA server, havent heard any complaints about lag yet so you should be fine.

#34 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

@grimmie92: oh that's good to hear. I will definitely contact you than. One more question though. Are there more than one US server?

#35 Edited by Grimmie92 (150 posts) -

@darji: nope, the options are NA or EU, you can choose in the settings of the ESO launcher/patcher you can actually download both and have characters in both, but the game files are separate so youll have to download the game twice if you want to do that.. atm EU is also playing on the NA server because their servers arent ready yet, and theyll be moved over at a later date

#36 Posted by AcidBrandon18 (753 posts) -

Would you say this is a good MMO for a person who's only experience in the genre is RuneScape? Because I love Elder Scrolls and will hopefully get it for PS4 as my PC sucks.

#37 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@grimmie92 said:

@seppli: i did the event stuff, that was all pretty basic reskins and a few quests, yes theyve done a few updates but im pretty sure it wasnt every 2 weeks cos i played that game for 3 months after launch and there was nothing new to do after the first 2 weeks than farm items for legendary item crafting. their new DLC and stuff seems interesting but the game hasnt progressed forwards, just sideways.. the weapon i used when i quit, is still the best weapon available in the game, so essentially there is no reason to experience the new content cos there is nothing worthwhile in it to be had. it certainly did get good support, im not saying it didnt, but i think you put it on a bit too high a pedestal saying there is no need for subs ever again because GW2 exists.

Also wishing failure on a game by claiming it will go F2P is pretty scummy, especially coming from someone who hasnt played it and therefore has no right to be judging the quality or life expectancy.

GW2 has ramped up the living story just around the time you stopped playing. From my experiences with WoW and other MMOs, ArenaNet outdid what most other developers do in the sub environment, with their living story stuff. Subs are about profits and customer retention, and not an absolute necessity. WoW was a money-printing machine with like a 70% profit margin (number pulled out of ass), that's why people still strive to establish a successful sub MMO. Not because it's the only viable business model.

I'm not wishing ESO to fail. I'm not saying ESO is a bad game. I did in fact play the ESO Beta, liked it quite a bit, but however much has changed, at it's core it's still what I saw a month ago - not revolutionary. I'm saying the market for sub MMOs is a lot smaller than people believe, because WoW was a phenomenon. Its success is out of the ordinary. I do not believe ESO is the game that will catch that kind of lightning in a bottle again, and if it doesn't, it will go free 2 play, because they want to make more money - which given a low enough subscriber base, they will absolutely make with a free 2 play business scheme.

So far every big sub MMO since WoW has gone free 2 play, usually within a year. Why exactly do you think ESO will be any different? To expect the expected is not scummy. It's called being a realist.

#38 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

@seppli: Their commitment. FFXI and FFXIV for example will never go free to play.

#39 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@darji said:

@seppli: Their commitment. FFXI and FFXIV for example will never go free to play.

  • A. Might be true. Might just be bullshit. People say one thing and do another all the time.
  • B. It's Square-Enix. Crazy people that are so out-of-touch with reality, or at least have been, it's just as out of the ordinary like the phenomenal success of WoW.
  • C. Don't you think Bioware was commited? Or the LotRO guys? Or the RIFT guys? The list goes on and on and on.
  • D. Given the lack of general excitement for ESO, I'd be surprised if they'd even still launch it on consoles with a subscription. No way in hell that's going to fly in that environment.
#40 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

@seppli:

  • A. Of course. We will never know
  • B. SE is making crazy money out of FFXI. In fact it was their most successful FF ever made. And with FXIV they explained several times that you can do much more with a subscription based model since you have a clear budget you are using for new content.
  • C. I think the game was just not good. Or the userbase was not really interested in this game at all.
  • D.. With ESO I think t is the opposite. You never had much hype about the game but now people realize that it is actually a pretty good game. Which could benefit them in the end. But we will see about that^^
#41 Edited by Grimmie92 (150 posts) -

@darji: on the note of BioWare, werent there massive layoffs there like a week before the launch? i seem to remember some big news story along those lines, and they did a horrible job of patching the game in the first few weeks, i remember having to start my second character purely because my first couldnt progress through the story because of a broken cutscene that would CTD.

I dont think BioWares heart was in the right place, im pretty sure there is still no player housing (could be wrong. i stopped caring - and also SWTOR still has a subscription tier so essentially it is no different to WoW)

#42 Posted by Legion_ (1301 posts) -

@seppli said:

Also ESO will go free 2 play within a year. I'd be surprised if it doesn't.

Prepare to be surprised.

#44 Edited by EXTomar (4760 posts) -

The subtext many are missing is that it isn't that I think ESO is "a bad idea" because "WoW/Wildstar/Whatever is awesome". I think ESO is a bad idea because it was built upon market assumptions of 5~ years ago where people will pay subscription fees for this slow moving action when there are other games that faster and more dynamic. It turns out there are ways to build a cheaper and more dynamic and way more profitable experience than relying on MMO conventions.

If you guys love ESO then more power to you. And there are still people who would and do pay for a game they would have to commit to 20 hours a week but a majority of market will not any more. If you need me to state it explicitly: I don't see it having much of a future for this style of game where it isn't WoW that is going to kill it as much as Hearthstone. Change the color and trappings and costumes all you want the "fundamentals" in the market aren't favoring this kind of experience.

#45 Edited by geirr (2581 posts) -

I've kinda not liked anything in ESO, from the annoying intro which I've done 20+ times by now, to the first questing areas. It's so boring. So, so boring. I wanted it to be good though so I kept on pushing, but no.. I got so bored I started capturing and leveling pets in WoW instead which is a low for me, but hey, something to do while waiting for Dark Souls 2.

#46 Posted by Grimmie92 (150 posts) -

@geirr: Sorry to hear that, sounds like youre just not a fan of classic RPGs, but at least youre not shitting on the game so i commend you.

@extomar: im not sure what you mean by not dynamic and slow moving, neither of those are words i would associate with ESO myself.
I think people need to stop comparing every mmo ever to WoW, it hurts my brain with all the stupid radiating from those comments.

You do not need to be WoW to be successful, and you do not need to be AS successful as WoW to be profitable, if any company can make a massively multiplayer game that has dedicated fans who will fork out all the cash they need to to get their video game fix, its the company behind the developers behind perhaps the most successful RPG of all time.

the mechanics behind the combat in this game and the fact that the UI doesnt look like horseshit already puts it leagues ahead of the "failiure" that was SWTOR which by its own standards not being compared to anything else was a fairly successful game.

You mentioned WildStar earlier, that game is so generic it even borrows WoW's inability to consistantly use a single key for interacting with items in the world.. not to mention the combat which is straight out of 2003 but it did learn something from recent MMOs, it got rid of the 5 unnecessary skillbars, similar to ESO for sure, except ESOs skill system doesnt try to be both revolutionary and yet also generic at the same time.

#47 Edited by Death_Burnout (3797 posts) -

Boy am I not looking forward to the coverage of this game. Over/Under on Jeff hating it unceremoniously? Assuming it's him leading the stream/look or whatever it is they're doing according to twitter.

Remember his disdain for GW2? Yeesh did that inspire a 'reaction'.

#48 Edited by spiralcut (118 posts) -

@death_burnout: I am dreading that as well. Other guys within Gamespot have been giving it great reviews/comments, so thats a plus.

#49 Posted by Krullban (1038 posts) -

The stream chat is terrible.

#50 Edited by Death_Burnout (3797 posts) -

Oh I don't doubt. I don't even know why I'm watching it...

Rorie can really be... something.

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