"Rogues" aren't very rogueish?

#1 Edited by BurningStickMan (243 posts) -

Trying to put together a good Shadowblade, and traditional rogue gameplay (stealth and dual wield) doesn't look that viable. For one, it seems like the only invisibility ability lasts just 2.5 seconds, and that doesn't seem like enough time to slip up on someone and give them the business. For two, there doesn't appear to be a backstab mechanic? I'm also not entirely sure what bonuses you get for attacking while crouch-stealthed (as opposed to using a power).

Is someone further along the lines, with some idea of how these powers transform (or mutate, or whatever the mechanic is called) able to give a clearer path? Or does the Thieves Guild (or Dark Brotherhood) give a more appropriate set of skills?

For what it's worth, I can already see how a Bosmer with a bow, the Assassination line, and a bit of Shadow could stomp balls. I'm not seeing the same potential with a melee Shadowblade, and I assume I'm missing something.

#2 Posted by Brodehouse (10537 posts) -

Do they have permadeath and random environments?

#3 Posted by Sparky_Buzzsaw (6974 posts) -

@burningstickman: I can't stand to see "rogue" spelled "rouge," so I edited your title. It's not a warning or anything, but I just had to. My English degree demanded it.

#4 Edited by believer258 (12849 posts) -

Do they have permadeath and random environments?

He seems to have avoided the term "roguelike" so that people wouldn't make this joke...

On topic, the Quick Look didn't seem to show any backstab mechanics despite Jeff trying to sneak up on dudes occasionally. I wouldn't bank on the game having that, which sounds like a real bummer.

#5 Edited by MB (14117 posts) -

@sparky_buzzsaw said:

...My English degree demanded it.

Irregardless at least your using it four something,

#6 Edited by Veektarius (5350 posts) -

When I played the beta I got the definite impression I got an automatic crit from performing attacks when stealthed, though it was never so extreme that I got one hit kills. I remember seeing a comment in one of the videos that there is indeed a bonus, as well as a smaller one for ranged weapons. My recollection is that this bonus extended to abilities, so it isn't a question of weighing a basic attack in stealth versus an ability out of it.

Ranged weapons were a real bummer, though, at least in the beta. They had an artificial range limitation that was extremely offputting (even if I understood why it was there).

#7 Posted by Grimmie92 (157 posts) -

@brodehouse: Thats a very strange question for this particular post, but I'll answer it anyway. There is no Permadeath unless you choose to delete your character upon death, but I wouldnt recommend it because you die a fair amount in this game from being trapped in an enemies AOE fire and whatnot

As for random environments, this is an MMO so it would be unfair if people saw different versions of the game, about the only thing that changes is certain crates in dungeons will spawn in different locations and will contain diffent items, but the layout of the rooms themselves will not change, but the environments are gorgeous, and theres plenty of variety in them.

@burningstickman: I believe there is a hidden damage bonus for stealth/enemies that havent seen you yet, effectively a backstab (havent tested this because sneaky mages were difficult in Skyrim, let alone an MMO (You could get the addon that shows damage numbers and crit indicators if you feel like investigating this))

By any chance does that invis move of the Night Blade morph in a way that gets extended duration? I havent played much on my NB so i have no idea.

I know in multiplayer crouching makes you invisible to enemies if you are outside of a certain radius, but detection in PVE seems to be areally long distance

#8 Edited by Darji (5412 posts) -

I am playing a Rogue or Nightblade. I am only level 9 so far but right no I can certainly say that if you for example use a bow and f you are in hide mode you do more damage as if you are not in a hide mode. As for backstabs. I think there is merit to it as well also my daggers suck so I switched to a bow right now. But with the bow I can clearly see a difference.

#9 Edited by Sparky_Buzzsaw (6974 posts) -

@mb: I'm gonna ban you so hard. You'll be all like, "Shit, Sparky! You banned me good!" And then I'll be like, "Damn straight. Now go make me some waffles."

I guess I'd better quit derailing this thread. I've only watched a bit of coverage outside of GB's own, but I've seen some bow builds that seem pretty legit. I can't say as I've seen a dual wielding stealth build though. I'll keep an eye out if I see a good'un.

#10 Edited by BurningStickMan (243 posts) -
@sparky_buzzsaw said:

@burningstickman: I can't stand to see "rogue" spelled "rouge," so I edited your title. It's not a warning or anything, but I just had to. My English degree demanded it.

You did the right thing. That's not a spelling. It's a color.

@grimmie92 It doesn't seem to morph for longer duration. Again, I haven't gotten too far. As for crouching and sneaking up on enemies, I always get juuuuuust in stabby range before they alert and turn around. I don't see a way to improve stealth as in previous ES games. Bosmer get an extra meter of stealth coverage with their racials, but that looks like it. Seeming like ranged stealth is the best stealth at the moment.

#11 Edited by gike987 (1811 posts) -

@burningstickman: I read somewhere that one of the first content patches will include the thieves guild and the related skill line. It wouldn't surprise me if that one include more options for stealth.

#12 Edited by Fredchuckdave (7165 posts) -

@sparky_buzzsaw: The Warhammer Online forums used to censor every swearword to "waffle," made for some fantastic memes.

#13 Posted by insane_shadowblade85 (1632 posts) -

@mb said:

@sparky_buzzsaw said:

...My English degree demanded it.

Irregardless at least your using it four something,

What? I... what?

#14 Posted by mylifeforAiur (3475 posts) -

@mb said:

@sparky_buzzsaw said:

...My English degree demanded it.

Irregardless at least your using it four something,

What? I... what?

It's a joke. So is the use of the nonstandard blend 'irregardless'. I also realise that I run the risk of not noting the humorous nature of your post, but it's worth it nonetheless.

#15 Posted by Damodar (1658 posts) -

It sort of seemed to me that it might just be a non-traditional take on the rogue more in line with the stealth mechanics of the Elder Scrolls series. I'd guess you don't need to backstab per se, you just need to hit undetected. So in the case of the invisibility, it's probably used less for getting around unseen and more just pop it while you're in their face and charge up a power attack or something.

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