God I hate using that word, but I couldn't think of any other word to describe what I mean. I've been thinking this over and I would absolutely love if Skyrim included a few huge battles somewhere in the storyline involving at least 100 characters in it, unlike the Battle of Bruma in Oblivion which was quite frankly, pathetic...I'm thinking more Mount and Blade Warband.
I know what you're thinking "the characters are too complex with physics systems, different stats, equipment ect..and the frame rate would drop to unplayable"
Here's what I'm thinking, these huge battles would take place somewhere very specific in the story, warring factions in Skyrim which results in open war between two lords and you choose which side to fight for, recruit armies for and such. During these battles, the art direction would change to something much less intensive graphically (not cell shading) and the enemies would be completely generic, their AI would stay in tact but for this battle sequence they are just soldiers you fight. You can pick up their current weapon lets say but no looting. There would be scripted events in the battle and different stages, like an archery volley you would need a shield for to defend against, an infantry charge and maybe an ambush or flank or something. Maybe a few dragons will fly in and fuck shit up. After the chaotic battle is over and the bodies of hundreds are cleared off the field, the game returns to its former complexity and amazingness.
tl;dr Mount and Blade style battles in Skyrim
The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
Game » consists of 30 releases. Released Nov 11, 2011
- Xbox 360
- PC
- PlayStation 3
- Xbox 360 Games Store
- + 5 more
- PlayStation 4
- Xbox One
- Nintendo Switch
- PlayStation 5
- Xbox Series X|S
The fifth installment in Bethesda's Elder Scrolls franchise is set in the eponymous province of Skyrim, where the ancient threat of dragons, led by the sinister Alduin, is rising again to threaten all mortal races. Only the player, as the prophesied hero the Dovahkiin, can save the world from destruction.
"Epic" Battles
I've always enjoyed the Elder Scrolls series more as a one-on-one combat system. But aside from that, this idea just seems a tad, umm, boring. Think about it this way: how many arrows does it take to kill someone in a Bethesda RPG? Now think about having to slaughter your way through 25+ mobs. I'm sorry, but I feel exhausted just thinking about it.
End of the day, I'd rather fight one very complex enemy over waves of really average enemies.
I am FIRMLY OPPOSED to this war idea.
Though if they did do it, it would be better to set them up as flashbacks or stories being told to you, so that they can use an old sketch art type of art direction.
The idea of actually seeing a real war play out in real time in an Elder Scrolls game would be amazing. I don't think we have the processing power to do it true justice though. Also project343 highlights the valid point that the way damage is dealt needs to change if such a war scenario were to be made, so that it would at least play out in a good and fast pacing.
I don't think it's the hardware that's such a concern as much as it is the engine. The AI in Bethesda's games is extremely reactionary while also having mostly procedural pathfinding. The more AI's you put into an environment, the more each AI has to make checks to determine how it should behave toward every single other AI based on disposition and faction, and how it should procedurally determine its pathfinding and individual actions based on all its potential targets' positions, movements, and actions. At some point, the engine just... breaks. Mount and Blade's AI, while very effective, is comparatively simple and one-dimensional (which doesn't mean it's worse, it's just designed to behave in one very specific way, and it does so very simplistically at an individual level).
The end of Heavenly Sword did something along these lines with some trickery. Skip to a minute in:
The way I see it there's the large, general mob (looks to be in the hundreds, easily) and then there is the handful of dudes who are actually attacking you. I assume the background mob is mostly smoke and mirrors, or at least much simpler versions of their functional allies.
I don't see why Skyrim couldn't pull something like this off in the main engine. I'm sure a set-piece like that would take some doin'. But I think they could do it if they thought the effort was worth it.
Not only would the combat not work well in that situation, as others have said, but I can only imagine how clunky that game would get with that amount of characters on-screen. Sure, might work for people with supercomputers, but for those without such machines I'm sure their systems would take a hit, especially when you consider what Bethesda said in their fan interview regarding the merging of curaisses to greaves:
If they were having issuew with rendering a lot of NPSc at once beacause of the armor then I seriously doubt the game would run optimally with upwards of 100 active characters at any given time.it renders a lot faster too, so we can put more people on screen
Elder Scrolls does, in my opinion, need to advance to the point where you can effectively fight multiple enemies, though this is taking things too far. It was a little too transparent in Oblivion that in most situations you'd kill one enemy, advance, kill one enemy, advance, then maybe get two enemies here or there.
Well, I have to admit that the idea sounds interesting. But even with the technology we have today I don't think we have enough to make such a thing happen. Besides, Bethesda needs to work out the kinks for their RPG formula before adding something massive like that. And the whole land isn't at war anyway, it's supposed to be this big empire with little to no strife inside it. You seem to be thinking of how things used to be in Europe, where lords did get in small battles with one another. There wasn't much order between them back then, they just fought each other. The Elder Scrolls areas have been made out to be far more civilized than that.
EDIT: Or feudal Japan circa the 16 and 1700's, or later. Excuse me if my dates are wrong, but I know the samurai warlords did get in fights with each other a whole lot and the nation wasn't really organized then.
If you listen to Game Informer's Todd Howard interview on their podcast (dates back to February, I believe), Todd mentions at one point "There are times when you will have a great many companions". I took that to mean that there will indeed be large scale battles. I could very well be wrong, but the hints were there.
A massive drop in quality would be crazy jarring and totally shatter any immersion you may have had. That said, games used to pull shit like that and randomly switch up game styles all the time, back before anybody knew how games were supposed to be made.
I suspect they could give you the illusion of being in a sizeable battle without a drop in quality, if you were ok with 99% of the dudes just being scenery you couldn't interact with. Kinda like the scene with the ghost battle in The Witcher 2.
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