And I can Officially say The Elder Scrolls is awful. Considering I hated fall out 3, Bethesda just sucks at making rpgs.

I will never understand the love this game gets. The combat is stiff and boring, everything is designed to be as time consuming as possible and nothing I do really has an impact on the world. This might be needless nitpicking but the voice acting is absymal, half the time the voice actors sound like the Swedish chef from the muppets. Sure Oblivions class system was a trainwreck, but the skill trees here are pretty poorly designed. Plus, Runescape's skill system was terrible a decade ago and it's still terrible now.

Runescape mixed with a bad quake mod should not get this kind of praise.

Before anyone asks, yes I played Morrowind... I hated it too.

Bethesda needs to go back to making Wheres Waldo games.

I'm not trying to troll, I'm actually just flabbergasted this series gets so much praise when it's seems Todd Howard learned nothing from Gary Gygax. Can some one just tell me, is this series for histpers or something? Every single time I've played a Bethesda Game, I hated every minute of it. Just everything I learned in nearly 20 years of playing D&D, everything I learned when Square still had talent.... TES just ignores all those common sense ideas regarding gameplay and story telling. I just can't understand what anyone sees in this series. For me it's like a DM put all of his effort into the setting and lore for the campiagn, then came up with some custom concepts for character leveling that weren't well thought out last minute and he makes every adventure ten minutes before a game without any thought on how to actually provide a challenge to a player or how to make a scenario interesting, preventing me from caring about any of the lore he put effort into because the actual game play isn't fun.

Please people stop giving this company money D:

*yawn*

Why keep playing a style of game you obviously hate? That's just fucking stupid.

It was more about just the size of the world and the sheer amount of content, which is only rivaled by MMOs which have even worse combat. It was also the first game in the series to be truly accessible to the layperson which got a lot of people more interested in the series as a whole, and WRPGs in general. To someone like you who is already deep into that culture it may not be as revelatory as it was to most people.

@corruptedevil: Weirdly I didn't find the world that big, in some ways Final Fantasy 6 rivals it when you think of how limiting 16 bit must have been. Fast Travel makes it seem smaller too.

@necromongo: I refuse to let the game win. Worst case scenario I'll just be in a psych hospital for a month or two. I've also been Trying to discuss and analyze it for my show on a shoutcast channel. So it's sort of like how Spoony plays a game he hates.

@sexualbubblegumx: Well a fully rendered 3D world, a 2D world is not technically impressive. You should never Fast Travel though, a lot of the game's best parts happen just walking around.

You need to accept that whatever it is that makes these games appeal to other people doesn't appeal to you and leave it at that. The tactic you're taking here isn't going to generate any meaningful critical discussion of the game or Bethesda's style of RPG, you're just going create a shitstorm. It's never a good idea to level criticism against a highly praised and much loved game from the position of "This game is objectively terrible and anyone that likes it is wrong."

Then again, based on much of what you've written here I don't think you actually want to have a meaningful critical discussion about the game. If you genuinely do, try to focus your discussion on the aspects of the game you don't like and avoid loaded, flame bait statements like "Bethesda needs to go back to making Wheres Waldo games," and "Please people stop giving this company money." Statements like that can lead nowhere good, and in fact make you look like the hipster, hating a popular game and bragging about it for attention.

It's time to realise it's the genre you hate. Are you confusing jrpgs with western? do you like Kingdom of amalur or dragons dogma? Bethesda make a specific brand of rpg that to me are fantastic, Fallout 3 and Morrowind especially, Skyrim was a bit too dumbed down for my liking but hey thats the way it goes these days.

Seriously tho, its a bit like saying puzzle quest is a shit puzzle game and they should stop making 3 match puzzles.

@ll_exile_ll said:

Pretty much this. The Elder Scrolls games scratch an itch you obviously don't have, that's all. There's no reason to come down so hard on a game because a lot of people enjoy it and you don't. It doesn't mean that there's something wrong with the game, and it certainly doesn't imply anything about the people that enjoy it.

And I'm not advocating the stifling of negative opinions, but as ll_Exile_ll pointed out, you're not phrasing your complaints in a way that's conducive to rational discussion or criticism.

I liked The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind.

I liked The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion.

I liked The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim.

The first two games were pretty good too, but I have less experience with them compared to the modern iterations.

I think they build incredibly fun worlds to explore. Along the way there are some neat quests. They usually fall short with story, characters, presentation, and combat though.

And I don't mean to spoil life for you, but there are tons of people who are really passionate about things that you hate.

Loved Fallout 3, really enjoyed Skyrim (still do, actually, playing around with mods and stuff). Can't wait for a new one of either of these series'. So, yeah, I'll continue to give this awesome developer money.

@sarcasticmudcrab: I actually Loved Kingdoms of Amalur, the combat was incredibly fluid, and I've liked Todd McFarlane's art style since highschool . I still dust off Dragon Age: Origins some times too. I've Also spent an immense amount of time when I was younger playing Diablo 2. So theres definately WRGS I like. Although I thought Capcom made Dragons Dogma, so that would make it a Jrpg ot does location not dictate that anymore?

Yeah I dunno. I feel like TES ends up like more of a novelty at some point. I enjoyed my time with Fallout3/NV and Oblivion. Though I didn't finish the latter. Any attempts to go back to either of those games just leaves me bored, and I couldn't get into Skyrim either. I guess there is a time and place for these games and my time has passed.

I'd like to join this small brotherhood. I couldn't stand Fallout 3 despite really wanting to. I enjoyed Oblivion but Skyrim did very little for me. Whenever people praise Fallout 3 and New Vegas I can't comprehend how. The game is so lifeless, so ugly. Live and let live though, so I mean I guess if you like it..

'Dear Diary, I don't like this style of game, whats up with that? Some hipster shit is what it is!'

Just because your opinion is in short supply doesn't mean it'll fetch a good price on the open market.

Far it be for me to defend the snake oil salesman that is Todd Howard, or Bethesda's shitty writing. But even to a grouchy old wrpg nerd like me (by gaming standards anyway) something like Skyrim managed to draw a good hundred hours from me. The thing that helped me get over the dumbing down of the series various mechanics and an almost complete removal of any meaningful dialogue and choices is to stop considering it as an rpg. It's a big world, compared to anything else out there, well there isn't aside from the stuff Bethesda puts out, it's a cool giant toy sandbox (and just like a real actual sandbox you aren't gonna really make anything radical in it lets be honest). I'm a sucker for vikingy stuff and snow, so when I'm wearing dragon bone armor sitting on a beefy white horse in the middle of ice flows with the purga (snow wind) whipping around me, it felt awesome. Other people will have other reasons.

Morrowind is different. At the time it was mind boggling, the size, the degree of interactivity, the unique setting(s), the vast amount of lore, the interwoven plots, houses and quest lines, ludicrous amount of freedom to do whatever the fuck you wanted to that world, an easy to pickup modding tool set and a modding community that gave it life well past the release or your one playthrough.

See and I would say, how can anyone think that Amalur was anything but dull mediocrity at best, that had absolutely nothing, nothing at all going for it beside good combat animation and flow. It has terrible writing, exposition instead of dialogue, barely qualifies as an open world, is more of a single player MMO without the best parts of an MMO, completely broken gear and skill system that you have to actively try to screw up to be anything less then godly on the hardest setting, too much enemy recycling (of boring enemies too), botched last third in every possible way. It's best part was the DLC arena that ramped up the enemies by a factor of 10 and let you really loose on the combat. Just for example. :)

wrpg and jrpg have long since stopped being about location, but about the style of the game that came from those different approaches.

Personally anyone calling Diablo 2 a wrpg or rpg is grossly misusing the term imo, when it has so little to do with traditional rpgs and is rather a simple dungeon crawler (albeit one of the greatest by popular opinion). But that's just a pet peeve.

lol, k

@sexualbubblegumx: I think it's random encounters, if there's random encounter music then it is japanese.

Frankly the point you're trying to make here is fucking dumb. Do you also keep eating food you hate because you don't want it to win?

What do you even expect bethesda to do here? It's not like they can ever change the entire concept of the series into something you DO appreciate. If you like games like D&D and Baldur's Gate I suggest you stick to those and not rant about a game series which core concept you never liked or appreciated because that's dumb. At least the singleplayer Elder Scrolls games will always be first person action RPGs that focus more on exploration of the world rather than a deep leveling and combat system. You should have figured that one out by now.

@sarcasticmudcrab: the SMT series of games are certainly JRPGs and have no random encounters. It's more just the tone and feel of it, you can pretty easily tell if something is japanese or western just by playing it for 10 minutes.

I agree it's not very good.

I've consistently tried and failed to get into pretty much every Bethesda RPG under the sun, and I can't figure out why I don't enjoy them. My favorite thing about video games is escapism into other worlds, so Skyrim should be right up my alley but it's inherent jankiness always makes me keenly aware that I playing a video game, and one with rather basic and easy gameplay at that. Sure there is tons and tons of lore, but it always failed to engage me. I am playing through Dragon Age Orgins right now and it's lore and combat systems have me by the fucking balls begging for more, that game may be the best WRPG I've ever played. Why is it that it engages me so much more than Skyrim? Probably the attention it gives to character writing. I don't need the world/map size to be massive, that's not what I come to games for, I just need a world that's confident in itself and well-crafted. I think the people that enjoy Skyrim are also into games like Minecraft and Day Z, games where the concept of myself having fun with them is really distant. What am I talking about this comment is too long, I'm tired I got two hours sleep and am waiting to board a plane. thanks for following me on this word journey of mine, stay safe out there please.

The best part of the modern Fallout/Elder Scrolls games are their creation kits.

From the cut and paste dungeons, to the tiny, compartmentalized zones, to the gameplay systems targeted to a more mainstream audience - they're all taken care of by mod makers. Can't find one suitable to you? It's not horribly difficult to create your own, and creation is just as fun as consumption.

It's a toybox with lots of toys to play with on console, and a giant sandbox on the PC. I do think however, it's one of those games where you need to make your own fun, if you will. You need to fill in your own backstory, you need to fill in the blanks, and you need to not take it personally when you save the freakin' world and the damn guards still call you a sneak thief.

What are you talking about? Call of Duty is my favorite RPG. You get loot, you kill things and get XP, and then you level up! That's an RPG!

I do wonder why there's no actual dungeon crawler genre. Action-RPG doesn't really fit the bill; I'd say Dragon Age 2 or Mass Effect 2-3 fit the action RPG name. But there's no more RPG in Diablo than there is in Titanfall.

When did people stop considering Diablo 2 an RPG? o.0 Back when I played it everyone said it was hack n slash style rpg.

I'm starting to honestly think I might actually have nothing in common with this current generation of 'vidya game kids'. And in all honesty, I've really noticed in the past few years the people who scream the loudest on facebook and other social media that they love video games and geek culture are hipsters, Which is sad because when asked over half of them couldn't tell me who Gary Gygax or Richard Gariott are.

I do have to ask you kids, when did things change? I remember when I just started College and people got ripped on for liking morrowind. I have to be honest, did my entire generation of nerds wither off and die, but nobody told me?

Guys I'll come back in a bit but I think I need beer Even though it is really refreshing seeing that there are some other people that don't like bethesda either.

Is the game bad or do you have poor tastes? :-p You probably like Dragon Age.

Alright then. Guys, pack it in. The Final Word has been spoken.

You must not be a very intelligent person if you can't understand opinions different from yours.

Sorry you don't like Bethesda RPGs. At this point you should probably just stay away, if you've tried 3 or 4 or them and hated them all, it's probably never going to win you over.

I personally love them. I've been playing RPG's since Ultima 2, and the Elder Scrolls has been right in my wheelhouse of western RPGs. It's been dumbed down a bit (streamlined) as the series went on, but it still has that core element, that 'make your own fun' that someone mentioned earlier.

I can't wait for the next one.

This is the best quote

I wish I would've known this before I sunk 200+ hours into this game while having a blast doing so, shit!

Well not every game is for everyone. I personally love bethesda openworld RPGs, some of my absolute favorite games are those. I'm eagerly awaiting the inevitable fallout 4 announcement (because they're obviously working on it)

Also, if you've tried several in the series and some from the fallout series, and hated them all. Why the hell would you think skyrim is different?

But its ok to not like things. You don't have to tell us not to buy the games that clearly millions of people absolutely love. People have different opinions and preferences.

Also whats with all the Gary Gygax and Richard Garriot name dropping? Neither of them are relevant to the discussion and one of them is dead.

lmao

reminds me of the guy who did the darksouls review and talked about how he hated the games, yet put over 200 hours into both rofl

and c'mon OP, just because we like a game series you don't doesn't make us hipsters. The skinny jeans and ironic tshirts make us hipsters

I hated fall out 3 despite trying to love it, Loved oblivion and skyrim (just bought legendary addition for pc to try out dlc and mods), Kingdoms of amalur was the most boring generic fetch quest game I ever spent an hour playing(maybe i'll give it another shot though lol), and dragon age origins was amazing.

We're gonna fight, Dragon Age Origins was fantastic. And so was Skyrim. WHY IS EVERYONE SO WRONG ALL THE TIME, GAWD.

Ignore the Bethesda apologists. They'll defend the buggy mess to the grit of their teeth. They're the same people putting down $60 for a 2003's GameBryo-engine game but then complain about how outdated TES: Online looks.

Dragon Age: Origins is utterly boring dude. It's one of the only RPGs that I think was truly boring and bland. It's so strange since the Mass Effect Series and the original KOTOR were so good. I tried to like DA. I really did. At least we can agree on other games. We can both agree that the OP has bad tastes in general, whereas we disagree on a few different things. ;-)

@wewantsthering: did you play dragon age on PC or console? I tried on console when it came out and hated it, and now that I'm playing it on PC it all has clicked

So, what games do you like?

I have the game on the Xbox 360, and PC. I would buy it again if they put it out on the Xbox One.

@secondpersonshooter: Yeah I played it on PC about a year ago. I didn't like the generic fantasy feel to it. I also hated the introductory tutorial. It was annoying. Haha. Maybe I'll give it another chance after I get through some other games. Everyone kept telling me that I just needed to dump a bunch of time and then it gets good. I only play games that are good off the bat in general. I don't want to sift through hours of crap to finally get to the good game.

If you hated Morrowind and Oblivion and Fallout 3 what makes you think you'd like another Bethesda game?

You should probably stop playing Bethesda games.

I can't take you serious if you can't step aside your taste in games and see the good in what skyrim/elder scrolls does. fallout 3 along with skyrim have many problems, mainly for me they are often very buggy. But the amount that they get right in a 3D world is something few have matched. When it comes to an open world that feels alive the only close competitor is rockstar with the gta games.

its called opinions.i love all of bethesdas games,but i also know its not for everyone.in fact there isnt a game for everyone thats what genres are for to tell you what type of game it is,and so people can stay away from types of games they dont like.like others have said you need to stop playing bethesda games because its not for you.i dont like games lots of people like sometimes,but i always can see the appeal in most games even if i dont like them.i think more people should do the same.

oh

@sexualbubblegumx: Stop right there criminal gum!
I'm sorry.
No I'm not.