Killing Children in Video Games, where's the stigma?

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#1 Posted by DeadDorf (388 posts) -

Does anyone actually draw a moral line between killing an innocent adult and killing an innocent child? Both are horrible, psychopathic things to do. Why is one allowed in the name of art or amusement in video games, and the other not?

I think it's absolutely ridiculous. What do the rest of you think?

#2 Posted by Linkster7 (1002 posts) -

I agree that it's kinda hypocritical. But doing horrible things to children have a stigma in all media. I

#3 Posted by Nentisys (881 posts) -

I think its lame. Whats the big deal about killing children in video games?

#4 Posted by Evilsbane (4340 posts) -

Baby steps guys, baby steps, games have just started going mainstream and allowing that in the game just gives media fuel to their "games are the devil" fire.

#5 Posted by CL60 (16906 posts) -

Because people will be offended by anything, even when it's not real.

#6 Edited by gregoryc (146 posts) -

People may see children as defenseless individuals (I have no evidence to back this up, nor do I feel the need to search for any). While playing most games I choose to not be the asshole who kills innocence individuals if given the chance, so I see the stigma - and I agree with it.

#7 Posted by TaliciaDragonsong (8698 posts) -

I honestly don't care who or what I maim or murder, its a game.
There's some who take offense though, and those people should find better things to do with their time.
To each their own.
Look at GTA or Saints Row, mindless murder or mutilating all for your entertainment? 
My dad for example loathes these games, yet he always approved of other games (say, Nintendo platformers etc).
When things become so real for those not playing it, the lines get very blurry.

#8 Edited by Castiel (2422 posts) -

But why would you want to kill a child, even if it's just game? Would it make it more fun if you could kill the child?

In a way I just don't care, it is just a game after all, but it's not something that would make me enjoy the game even more, so why bother? In fact it will only give games a more terrible reputation than they already have.

I guess I just don't see the reason why it would be necessary to kill a child in a videogame? It's kind of a weird wish if you ask me and not really necessary.

#9 Posted by Morningstar (2049 posts) -

I for one think its fine as it is right now. Killing children in videogames for me is an atrocity, but then again I cant even kill a fox in Skyrim cause I feel bad :p

#10 Posted by BraveToaster (12590 posts) -

@Evilsbane said:

Baby steps guys, baby steps, games have just started going mainstream and allowing that in the game just gives media fuel to their "games are the devil" fire.

This. Give it time.

#11 Posted by Canteu (2814 posts) -

To me its kind of interesting. Try using the killall command in skyrim and creating a world reminiscent of Lord of the flies. Hundreds of corpses litter the world and only the children remain. It's like bringing fallout to skyrim, so in this case it's actually more fun not to be able to kill the children.

#12 Posted by CaLe (3678 posts) -

It doesn't stop me from trying!

#13 Posted by mosespippy (3752 posts) -

I did a research paper in university about the various ratings boards around the world. Violence against a minor gets a game banned in Australia, New Zealand, parts of Europe and parts of Canada. Its not a matter of devs wanting to include it or being afraid to include it; it's the fact that it's a poor business decision to include it.

#14 Posted by Aetheldod (3342 posts) -

I agree that it is a tad hypocrital , after all a human is a human no matter the age , but you know is not that it would add something to the game in the end so I wont make a fuss about it.

#15 Edited by bybeach (4606 posts) -

@mosespippy said:

I did a research paper in university about the various ratings boards around the world. Violence against a minor gets a game banned in Australia, New Zealand, parts of Europe and parts of Canada. Its not a matter of devs wanting to include it or being afraid to include it; it's the fact that it's a poor business decision to include it.

I think it is a poor decision also, business or otherwise. Killing a child in most any form is sick to me, hypocritical or not, virtual or otherwise. And I am not so hipster to think otherwise. Where the line really might be personally, is where the child is not a child at all except in appearance say. I remember an old video game..a space shooter where a Witch took the form of a child. Also in a very good horror novel and decent movie (trying to remember the name, EDIT- Ghost Story, by Peter Straub) where an evil entity took the form of a pre-adolescent girl. These are I would consider valid story driven valid- to- context conditions.

But to kill a child out of hand, that needs to be done?

But then I try/tried to avoid killing all innocents, even in Vice City.

#16 Posted by Yanngc33 (4496 posts) -

If the GTA V trailer is to be believed, there should be children in a GTA ame, which is a first. Who knows where that will lead us

#17 Edited by Seppli (9744 posts) -

I eat veal. FYI. Also read 'A Song of Ice and Fire' and crave for honied suckling pig.

Seriously though, developers/publishers are afraid of what players would do, if they'd allow such a thing; and of what non-players would see/think/do if such in-game cruelty is taken out of context.

I really just want more bewbs and asses and vaginas in my movies, television shows and games. I mean seriously, don't we all hope our favorite media turns into porn at some point, even for just a bit? Don't we all crave some fan service? I admit I do. It barely ever happens though, unless you discover your favorite anime was a hentai before it went mainstream.

I mean Sharon Stone's 1-second porn moment made her whole career and wrecked more than one VCR with constant rewinding. Simply put, we want porn.

#18 Posted by jakob187 (21506 posts) -

Personally, I just wanna split those annoying fuckhead's wigs. That's all. They piss me off. What's worse is that they antagonize you, and you aren't allowed to punish them for it...ya know, but severing their head from their body.

#19 Posted by MideonNViscera (2257 posts) -

It's easy to see why it's a big deal. At the same time, I dunno why it can't be in the game. If you don't wanna see kids murdered, don't murder kids. Pretty simple. I don't get why anybody would push for it though.

#20 Posted by PrivateIronTFU (3874 posts) -

I'm pretty sure in real life there's more of a 'stigma' associated with child killing over adult killing.

#21 Posted by Faint (833 posts) -

@Evilsbane:The fact gaming is mainstream probably spells out the fact we'll never see it. Suiting the masses means settling for mediocrity and familiarity.

#22 Posted by Jimbo (9710 posts) -

They not real children.

#23 Posted by Pop (2530 posts) -

I just think they're all really powerful demons in disguise, that's why you can't kill them.

#24 Posted by ballsnbayonets (154 posts) -

fallout 2 member those little bastards who would pickpocket you. then i would riddle them with bullets!

#25 Posted by tekmojo (2298 posts) -

I tried tinkering around with the console commands, editing immortal values for kid NPCs. No luck yet might need a mod for it. I mainly did some investigating because I want to make it so everyone in Skyrim can die to make it more realistic.

#26 Posted by sins_of_mosin (1556 posts) -

Its a video game, get over it.

#27 Posted by Nottle (1912 posts) -

Men are expendible and society seems to be ok with that, even though it contradicts most logic. For some reason we see children and women as weak, inocent, and defensless (even though we know this is not true, the kids in fallout have guns) so it is wrong to hurt them. Men on the otherhand are fodder, they deserve what is coming to them, or if they aren't deserving, they are men, they'll grit their teeth and bear it as they get shot in the head.

Take something like Bully. If you hit another boy your age, you'll get in trouble, but you have a chance to stomp on some prefects feet to get away. But God forbid you punch a girl or a 1st grader. If a prefect catches you then you go straght to the principle, no fighting back.

Or take any other game into consideration. Female enemies are a lot less common sure, but when they are in the game they aren't usually goons, they serve a story purpose and at least have a few lines of dialogue or something. When it's time for payback they are usually given a chance to turn face and join up with the good guys. They aren't all evil, just misguided. I remember hearing about a mission in LA Noire where a group of men and 1 woman were robbing a bank, you kill all of the men and the woman just kind of gives up because shooting a woman thats robbing a bank would be sexist.

No, killing children won't make a game better necisarily, but it will make it more believable. You play Left 4 Dead or GTA and you don't see any children even though your in places that would probably have a few children wandering around. It's just that in something like a Bethesda game, where player choice and consequences are what make it so impressive, it's weird that kids are resistant to death because some idea that children are either too innocent to be killed or thats it's just unatural to die. It defies logic. In a post apocalyptic setting, the weak children are going to be the first to die. The stong adults would be able to persevere. But now I'm talking about realism in a game with firebreathing ants.

#28 Posted by tekmojo (2298 posts) -

Not being able to kill a kid or other NPC breaks immersion believe it or not. If you don't want people doing bad things to them don't even put them in the game.

#29 Posted by Dany (7886 posts) -

Because it is more wrong to kill a child than an adult. You psychopath.

#30 Posted by tekmojo (2298 posts) -

@Dany said:

Because it is more wrong to kill a child than an adult. You psychopath.

Show me in some sane world where decapitating a human being isn't considered psychopathic.

#31 Posted by MildMolasses (3194 posts) -

@gregoryc said:

People may see children as defenseless individuals (I have no evidence to back this up, nor do I feel the need to search for any). While playing most games I choose to not be the asshole who kills innocence individuals if given the chance, so I see the stigma - and I agree with it.

Me too. It's not like movies show children being killed a lot. The only one I can think of (and I mean murdered, not in an accidental fashion) is Rambo, and seeing children being bayonetted was appaling. I don't want children to be killable in games.

Even though there is a recent example of a child dying in a popular game, they at least had the decency not to show the aftermath, and you never see the body. I know what they were trying to do, but they at least knew when to pull back from it

#32 Posted by Dany (7886 posts) -

@tekmojo said:

@Dany said:

Because it is more wrong to kill a child than an adult. You psychopath.

Show me in some sane world where decapitating a human being isn't considered psychopathic.

It is wrong no matter what. In a sense, the younger the person the more 'wrong' society deems the act.

#33 Edited by Krakn3Dfx (2480 posts) -

I actually think it's a little weirder that people WANT to kill kids in games. I mean, do whatever you want, but I'm fine with not being able to do this.

This seems like something to form a single file line next to the booth where people are okay with animated child porn.

#34 Posted by Patman99 (1544 posts) -

I dont really want to kill a child either in real life or in a video game. Children are defenceless and that makes most people not want to kill them. The same can be seen in killing a dog in a video game. Personally, when the game forces me to kill a dog, I feel terrible. Why? Because the dog is something familiar and I associate the virtual dog's emotions with dogs I know in real life. Same thing with children. I dont see the big deal with baring you from killing a child. Yeah it's a video game and it can be taken as meaningless but at the same time my morals just prohibits me from doing such an act even if it is in a virtual world.

Adult on Adult violence is accepted in the video game world because it can be seen as a "fair" fight. In opposition, fighting a child will never be fair when you are supposed to be the 350 pound dragonborn orc.

#35 Posted by ArtelinaRose (1785 posts) -

@Patman99 said:

I dont really want to kill a child either in real life or in a video game. Children are defenceless and that makes most people not want to kill them.

I've been a kid before and I can tell you that children are not defenseless.

Online
#36 Posted by Deusx (1879 posts) -

I find it REALLY FUNNY because they are NOT REAL and made of POLYGONS...

#37 Posted by tekmojo (2298 posts) -

@Dany said:

@tekmojo said:

@Dany said:

Because it is more wrong to kill a child than an adult. You psychopath.

Show me in some sane world where decapitating a human being isn't considered psychopathic.

It is wrong no matter what. In a sense, the younger the person the more 'wrong' society deems the act.

I agree with that in society those things are completely heinous acts, but in the world of Skyrim, it has it's own penalities and laws to abide by. There are jails, guards, bounties, etc. Make it so you are punished extremely for committing such an act. I just feel that you can't get past things like killing kids in games forever (specifically Bethesda open world). Games will evolve and become more realistic over time and that same issue will keep coming back over and over. I'd like to see game take a stand for the benefit of game development. Just my opinion.

#38 Posted by Krakn3Dfx (2480 posts) -

Put it this way, Bethesda allows people to kill kids in Skyrim, that's all they're talking about on Fox News for weeks to come.

"Todd Howard, Skyrim Lead Designer, also potential child killer, next on Geraldo"

#39 Posted by Sayishere (1838 posts) -

The whole woman and children first springs to mind. I kill woman in Skyrim, i would also kill children if the game would let me. So the million dollar question is, who's going first?

#40 Posted by Krakn3Dfx (2480 posts) -

@Sayishere said:

The whole woman and children first springs to mind. I kill woman in Skyrim, i would also kill children if the game would let me. So the million dollar question is, who's going first?

I would only kill an innocent woman in Skyrim if she had 5 or more Potions of Minor Healing on her. Or I married her.

#41 Posted by SSully (4060 posts) -

It wouldn't be so obvious that you couldn't kill the kids if they didn't make the kids saying annoying/insulting shit to you. Those little brats in dragons keep or whatever in white run insult me everytime I walk in. I tried to kill some little bastard for insulting me and he just ran off while the guards came. Atleast put in a 'bitch slap' button to teach the punks a lesson.

#42 Posted by Patman99 (1544 posts) -

@Artemesia said:

@Patman99 said:

I dont really want to kill a child either in real life or in a video game. Children are defenceless and that makes most people not want to kill them.

I've been a kid before and I can tell you that children are not defenseless.

Some arent, but that doesnt change the fact that most are. The fact that most are defenceless creates a stigma that is not easily shaken. Also, an 8-10 year old will never hold up in a fight against a grown man or women, no way. This is even more true in the case of Skyrim where you character is supposed to be a skilled warrior. Either way, I dont see why you would want to kill a child either way.... PS I was also a kid once.

#43 Posted by Krakn3Dfx (2480 posts) -

@SSully said:

It wouldn't be so obvious that you couldn't kill the kids if they didn't make the kids saying annoying/insulting shit to you. Those little brats in dragons keep or whatever in white run insult me everytime I walk in. I tried to kill some little bastard for insulting me and he just ran off while the guards came. Atleast put in a 'bitch slap' button to teach the punks a lesson.

The best thing ever would be holding the cursor over a kid, having an "Activate Child" option, and an entire animation devoted to putting them over your lap and spanking the shit out of them.

#44 Posted by JasonR86 (9379 posts) -

Children are somehow more innocent. Plus, they haven't had the chance to live as long. You wouldn't be just cutting a life short, but very short.

#45 Posted by SSully (4060 posts) -

@Krakn3Dfx said:

@SSully said:

It wouldn't be so obvious that you couldn't kill the kids if they didn't make the kids saying annoying/insulting shit to you. Those little brats in dragons keep or whatever in white run insult me everytime I walk in. I tried to kill some little bastard for insulting me and he just ran off while the guards came. Atleast put in a 'bitch slap' button to teach the punks a lesson.

The best thing ever would be holding the cursor over a kid, having an "Activate Child" option, and an entire animation devoted to putting them over your lap and spanking the shit out of them.

I would support that! Hell just let me tell their parents about how their kids just publicly insulted me for no reason! Then if the parent ends up being a dick I can take them down with my great sword. Or rob them in the night, either works perfectly.

#46 Posted by JonSmith (168 posts) -

I personally take bigger issue with non-killable NPC's than I do with non-killable children. Nothing annoyed me more than deciding that both Ulfric and the Imperials did not have the best interests of Skyrim at heart, thus deciding to destroy both of them, only to realize they are both apparently immortals who can be wounded, and delayed, but not defeated.

#47 Posted by The_Ruiner (925 posts) -

nobody wants to give the government the ammunition to shut us down...

#48 Posted by ShadowConqueror (2994 posts) -

As someone who likes to murder all things, I want to murder all things.

#49 Posted by valrog (3671 posts) -

It's not that I despise kids, it's just that in most games they serve no other purpose than to make me want to kill them. And I'm usually the "spare the innocents" kind of player...

#50 Posted by CJduke (780 posts) -

Well because killing kids IS really messed up, and pretty disturbing. Also, its very traumatizing to here about the death of a kid in real life, kids aren't supposed to die, grown ups and old people are.

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