Scaling Difficulty

#1 Posted by IrishBrewed (150 posts) -

Is the scaling leveling system something you liked in Oblivion or Fallout 3? I have never been a fan of this system and enjoy the classic pre determined levels that are fixed.

#2 Posted by huntad (1958 posts) -

I don't really know what camp I fall into. I don't like it when stupid enemies like rats scale to you, but I don't like feeling all powerful at the end. I'd rather the more powerful enemies continue scaling with me till I decide to stop playing.

#3 Posted by SuperWristBands (2266 posts) -

I enjoy some level scaling. I think Fallout NV did that and it was good.

#4 Posted by Dagbiker (6978 posts) -

Oblivion had it bad, fallout not so much

#5 Posted by IrishBrewed (150 posts) -

I see your point I guess it's the classic ideal of wanting to reach a godlike level after putting a lot of time into it, but you don't want it to be too easy. It's a tough balance I'm sure.

#6 Posted by Starfishhunter9 (369 posts) -

As long as it is adjustable I guess it doesn't hurt too much. I don't want quests I leave to last to be too easy because I over leveled.

#7 Posted by Adamsons (873 posts) -

Zones are tagged with level ranges.
 
Example dungeon is 10 - 15, when you are level 1, mobs are 10.  You 12 Mobs 12, you 35 mobs 15.

#8 Posted by livelikeabomb (8 posts) -

I never had any problem with the level scaling in Oblivion because I both didn't think about it and appreciated the specific advantages my character developed over time. It felt natural and fulfilling to have combat scenarios that were business as usual until I decided to pull out any awesome new loot, magic, or skill upgrades I had earned.

Overall, I think the level scaling encouraged the developers to rely on satisfying new skills or items a lot more than on simple number-building.

#9 Posted by NinjaHunter (973 posts) -

I guess I would like some scaling but I would also like to be able to at least move through older areas and just dominate later on. I always think it sucks when you have just as much trouble with an enemy 30 hours in as you do when you just start the game.

#10 Posted by bcjohnnie (442 posts) -

Yeah this is a huge problem with these true open world RPGs. Since the developers have no idea what order you will tackle the zones, they can't put a standard progression into the enemy levels. Also, in Fallout there was a point where your gear was just destroying almost everything in the game, and it became less fun to explore older areas with low-level dudes because there was no challenge.

But the Oblivion level-scaling system makes it much harder to make you feel like more of a badass as you level up, which is why I think they added this dragon shout stuff and seemed to make the quest progression more appealing (from the little I've seen), so that you feel like you are truly more powerful than most things in the world.

Personally, Oblivion bored me, but I have become very interested in Skyrim lately, so I'm interested to see how the combat and balancing shakes out. Combat especially, since I really tend to despise first-person melee in games.

#11 Edited by Divina_Rex (351 posts) -

I feel like there shouldn't be so much scaling. I want the enemies to be easy when I'm a later level and I don't want enemies that are just stab/arrow/magic sponges. They should be smarter and hit harder rather than hit hard and have a TON of health.

#12 Posted by xyzygy (10077 posts) -

I really loved how Morrowind handled it. Just have really, insanely tough enemies at certain parts of the game which will make you think, "Whoa, I guess this is an area I need to come back to later" instead of being given free reign. I like the sense of restriction as it makes the world as a whole seem so much bigger since you'll need to note which places you should visit after you get so strong.

#13 Posted by CaptainCody (1521 posts) -

I believe their is some scaling but, as said, their are predetermined level ranges thankfully. I hope devs realize most people hate scaling, where is the sense of power?

#14 Posted by alexl86 (634 posts) -

Of Bethesda's games, the best difficulty scaling was definitely Fallout 3. By that, I mean you can definitely find your self in dangerous situations(like being spotted by sneaking up on a Deathclaw) where death is a possibility, but you can still deal with situations like that. It was not without it's flaws. Until Broken Steel came out, the only enemy the really posed a threat to you was the aforementioned Deathclaw(and one can argue the Super Mutant Overlord was a tad too powerful) and with the right perks and skills, V.A.T.S. was so powerful you could kill off a room full of NPCs before any of them drew their guns.

Oblivion was fine up until level 30. At level 30, the leveled monsters started appearing, monsters that have extra HP and deals extra damage based on your level. The problem with this is that by the time you hit max level, which is minimum 51 for most characters, nearly all monsters deal more damage than you do and have more HP, while you probably reached your max damage at level 30. Of course, this could be corrected by lowering the difficulty slider.

Morrowind was fine up until around level 25. Then it became the opposite of Oblivion. Instead of the monsters becoming more powerful, they stayed the same and you became more powerful. Much more powerful. By the time you hit max in Morrowind, which is minimum 70(highest NPCs are around 35, and you usually don't fight them), your armor makes you practically invulnerable, your health is almost godly, you have healing spells to undo what little damage you withstand in a flash and your sword kills all but the toughest enemies in one hit.

In short, Oblivion made the monsters too powerful, Morrowind made the player too powerful, Fallout 3 was a decent compromise.

#15 Posted by reticulate (13 posts) -

I think they've definitely learned something from the scaling used in Fallout 3. The city proper was a death zone before you hit a certain level.

It's been a long time since Oblivion.

#16 Posted by Jerr (531 posts) -

I would like to see more of a Dark Soulsian system where dudes don't even really scale; there are just places you are good enough to go explore and other places you aren't. I think it gives the game more depth knowing there's this huge diversity to the level of difficulty you face.

#17 Posted by FreakAche (2955 posts) -

It has level scaling, but they've said that it's more akin to the Fallout 3/Morrowind level scaling system than the Oblivion one.

#18 Posted by mitter (63 posts) -

@Adamsons said:

Zones are tagged with level ranges. Example dungeon is 10 - 15, when you are level 1, mobs are 10. You 12 Mobs 12, you 35 mobs 15.

This may be the best explanation of the new system. Never really got what they meant. Also it sounds like a good system where you just can't go anywhere and still there's a little scaling. This will be awesome.

#19 Posted by jozzy (2035 posts) -

@Jerr said:

I would like to see more of a Dark Soulsian system where dudes don't even really scale; there are just places you are good enough to go explore and other places you aren't. I think it gives the game more depth knowing there's this huge diversity to the level of difficulty you face.

I see your point but that is a totally different game. More of an action RPG where player-skill and gear is way more important than levels. Not sure they can get away with that in Skyrim, the combat is more reliant on the learned abilities and spells than player skill (dodging/blocking/strafing/..).

#20 Posted by Guided_By_Tigers (8061 posts) -

scaling levels are dumb.

#21 Posted by TekZero (2691 posts) -

I love non-scaling, just like the way Dark Souls does it. If you enter an area/cave that is too powerful for you and you get one shotted, then you are too low to go there right now. In open world games, some places should have a certain mysteriousness about them.

#22 Posted by haggis (1677 posts) -

My first run through Oblivion I didn't think about it, and it didn't bother me. Later plays ... yeah, it's annoying. The new system should work well enough. It's difficult to balance it being an open world with tiered, non-scaling areas because then it appears to the gamer that despite being an open world, the developers are still steering you down a specific path, albeit passively. This system is a compromise. It's not going to make everyone happy, but I think it takes most of the edge off.

#23 Posted by Jayzilla (2571 posts) -

In all seriousness, should rats, bears, wolves etc. level at all? I am all about the dungeon areas scaling, but leave a chunk of the open-world stuff as is. It's like scaled instances in MMO's. Some of the areas should just have baddies that stay at a static level. Someone make a mod for Skyrim when it's out please.

#24 Posted by Tennmuerti (8174 posts) -

Enemy level scaling is a cop out by developers who can't balance their games.

That's my 2c anyway.

@SuperWristBands said:

I enjoy some level scaling. I think Fallout NV did that and it was good.

Untill you got into really high levels. Then it became unbalanced as fuck again. Damage Resistance and hence all armor stops mattering when a Deathclaw does 500+ damage in 1 hit.

@Dagbiker said:

Oblivion had it bad, fallout not so much

Fallout 3, NV had a tiered leveling system where everything became stronger at level thresholds. like 1-10 10-20 20-25 etc

#25 Posted by Evilsbane (4735 posts) -

The scaling in Oblivion Killed the game for me (After 200 hours lol) but the Mods eventually fixed that But I can say I am not a fan. Fixed lvls ftw

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