I love the fantasy genre as much as i love the sci-fi genre. They're both awesome.

So you're that kind of guy who says Majora's Mask is the best Zelda and FFVIII is the best PS1 Final Fantasy. Your credibility IN LIFE dropped to zero, my friend. Well, it's still better than those who say FFIV is the best FF.

But seriously, I kinda don't like traditional fantasy - orcs and stuff - all that much also, and I didn't like Oblivion at all (it's a great game, just not for me). But I'm still excited for Skyrim, in part because of Fallout 3 and this new engine.

I'm the other way, while I can enjoy realistic games I prefer fantasy and sci-fi games considerably more.

I use my imagination to make talking to an orcanoid in a Scrolls game seem like it could be possible.

It's like anything, if you can allow your mind to get into the details and story then you may find yourself enjoying it.

@RockmanBionics said:

D'ya know what really cogs my gears? Sci-fi that're just fantasy in space. It's where you have the "race that are just like humans only they are all stubborn and/or violent" and the "race that are just like humans only they're all mellow minded and intelligent" i.e. analoges similar to the dwarfs and elves of fantasy. There are some other similarities, all of which has put me off that specific branch of sci-fi.

Strangely enough it doesn't bother me as much, if at all, in more traditional fantasy settings. Perhaps concepts such as bloodlines and prophecies just seem more plausible in a less enlighened, more mystical world.

Anyhow, looking forward to Skyrim, even though I'm not sure I'll be able to pick it up this year what with Dark Souls and Zelda being higher priorities. I always liked the Fallout 3 chatter on the podcast though so there's atleast that.

I am the complete opposite. I love Star Wars and Firefly because the are both just "fantasy in space" and "western in space". I've never been into traditional science fiction as much. Shit bores me too tears.

Orcs and Elve, though? Now you're talking.

Skyrim.

Also: video games.

Also also: We're on to you, Patrick. You can stop pretending you have a fiancee.

@gladspooky said:

This pretty much describes how I feel about it.

I don't know why video game developers (usually right after losing the D&D license) decide to create a unique fantasy world by filling it with elves who love nature/are high-and-mighty and dwarves who live underground/are down-to-earth, plus the occasional dragon.

Well, most games try to hard a unique spin to the standard fantasy races. For example, the Elves in DA were not "high-and-mighty". They were slaves and of a lower-caste than humans. The "wood" Elves in the Elder Scrolls lore are barbarian cannibals who would rather eat each other than a single piece of vegetation. Hell, even DND has about a hundred different subraces and Elven cultures. Trying to boil them down to "pointy-earred hippies" is an awfully shallow approach.

FFVIII would probably be my favourite FF, maybe after IX, if it wasn't for just how broken the Junctio system was. If it had been tied to potency of the Magic and not quantity, that would have solved the entire issue. I love that game too but come on, the Junction system was fundamentally flawed.

How is it possible to have serious interest in orcs 'n elves...but none in Skyrim?

This is why the Wall Street Journal called Ryan Davis a blogger and Giant Bomb a blog.

@Meowshi said:

@RockmanBionics said:

D'ya know what really cogs my gears? Sci-fi that're just fantasy in space. It's where you have the "race that are just like humans only they are all stubborn and/or violent" and the "race that are just like humans only they're all mellow minded and intelligent" i.e. analoges similar to the dwarfs and elves of fantasy. There are some other similarities, all of which has put me off that specific branch of sci-fi.

Strangely enough it doesn't bother me as much, if at all, in more traditional fantasy settings. Perhaps concepts such as bloodlines and prophecies just seem more plausible in a less enlighened, more mystical world.

Anyhow, looking forward to Skyrim, even though I'm not sure I'll be able to pick it up this year what with Dark Souls and Zelda being higher priorities. I always liked the Fallout 3 chatter on the podcast though so there's atleast that.

I am the complete opposite. I love Star Wars and Firefly because the are both just "fantasy in space" and "western in space". I've never been into traditional science fiction as much. Shit bores me too tears.

Orcs and Elve, though? Now you're talking.

Never seen Firefly, nor any memorable westerns. I was about to say that I like Star Wars but that's mostly the first movies, the extended universe has so much additional bullcrap that I'm not interested in getting into that I should probably just limit it at that. I do think it would be fun and interesting to see the original triology get adapted into a fantasy setting, just to see how everything would carry over.

I couldn't describe what makes a "traditional sci-fi" story if I wanted to, I like some of it and dislike other parts. Stuff like Star Trek and Mass Effect both have these tropes that annoy me but I still enjoy watching/playing those to an extent.

I suppose that in the end I'm not picking at Sci-fi or Fantasy in particular, but rather some of the tropes shared among the genre that happen to bug me.

@Sputty said:

I don't see why people who are afraid of spiders are afraid of giant spiders. It loses the characteristics of a spider that are really trouble; their small size, scurrying and venomous bite aren't an issue with a spider the size of a grizzly bear.

Unless you also have a fear of grizzly bears.

@Ravenlight: I believe someone who doesn't have a fear of grizzly bears may also be known as a fool.

@PyratesRum said:

@onan said:

@WileyS said:

My question is if you loved fallout so much, why did you not want to go back and play Oblivion?

I'm in the exact same boat. I had no interest in Fantasy but picked up Oblivion when it came out because it was the biggest, most impressive thing being released on 360 at the time and heard so many good things, but ultimately after I got out of the first dungeon and made it to the first town, I got impossibly bored with it. There really was no real reason to move forward because of all the freedom they gave you.

I tried Fallout 3 and couldn't believe it was made by the same people.It had really interesting sidequests, great dynamic combat, the works. Also, it was genuinely funny, something that Fantasy (including much of what I played of Oblivion) lacks desperately. I put over 150 hours into Fallout 3 before I finished the main quest, and I'm still savoring and working my way through the DLC.

And there-in lies one of the reasons developers continue to make simplified games. Not that Oblivion is that complex mind you. You're telling me that if the game held your hand and gave you a clear route to the finish line, you would have enjoyed it more? No point in moving on due to the freedom they give you? Um, if anything it's the exact opposite. With more "freedom," comes more gameplay options and longevity. I love how they plop you into the world and let you tackle it how you see fit. (to a certain extent) I've played maybe 200 hours of Oblivion with multiple play-throughs and I have yet to finish the main story line. I always go off and do my own thing.

Are you knocking Oblivion for not having interesting side quests? How would you know if you've barely played the game? The Dark Brotherhood story line is easily one of the best in video game history. In fact, as stated above all I did in Oblivion was side quests and what not.

Well not exactly; Fallout 3 was similarly open, but weirdly 50's sci-fi with a great sense of humor, so the drive to see more of it overcame my gamer inertia (once I got to the first town in Oblivion, all momentum was lost for me). If Oblivion had shown me a stronger, more directed narrative, it could have helped me overcome my general disinterest in the genre. Dragon Age: Origins did this for me incredibly well. Fallout 3's main narrative isn't that strong either, but that didn't matter when you had side quests like helping Moira write her Wasteland Survival Guide, or helping Lucy find her brother and stumbling upon Arefu and their pseudo-vampire cult problems, or the general craziness of Bigtown and Lamplight, or the Tranquility Lane scenario (granted, that was part of the main campaign, but SO random and amazing).

As it stood though, Oblivion, vast as it was, felt very generic with ugly people saying inane things that didn't make me want to do any quests for them. I spent the 5-10 hours I played the game robbing people in town and then exploring little bits here and there, trying different things and reloading and seeing how they reacted. The alternative was venturing out to discover ruins and dungeons and goblins and orcs and undead. I know that's someone's cup of tea, but it is definitely not mine. Change the setting to something like Mass Effect and hell yes I'd be onboard.

Why is that? I honestly don't know. It could be something as simple as not liking the overall color scheme of a Fantasy setting, full of browns and greens and grays. Sci-fi is full of blues and purples. Fantasy tends to be a little more dark and serious, Sci-fi tends to have a lot more cool or goofy elements. There might be something to that, because World of Warcraft is very much in the Fantasy camp but has many of the things that are so foreign to Fantasy by being so vibrant, silly, and not afraid of technology. I actually like WoW, so that's saying something (not enough to pay a monthly fee, but still quite a bit, enough to get to Level 85 with one main, at least).

You tell 'em, Patrick! Finally, someone in the video game press who isn't ashamed to take on the status quo and say that FFVIII is hands down the best modern Final Fantasy. So the Junction system is hard and imperfect, it's still fascinating. And the story....argh love that game! Rest of the article is good, too. Now write me a five part resprospective about FFVIII, stat!

Well, I don't know how familiar you are with ES's lore, but it is a hell of a lot more interesting than your basic Tolkien-lite cookie-cutter orcs & elves crap in my opinion. In fact Skyrim is the first time they've had dragons as enemies since at least Morrowind, and in comparison to all the outlandish shit going on in the rest of the universe, dragons are pretty bland.

I probably do not find fantasy as silly as Patrick does, but sometimes I do find some fantasy setting a bit too silly. However, then again I find the setting of Fallout...just as fantasy and far sillier. Fallout 3 is set in a silly, unbelievable, and impossible world from my point of view.

- Radiation does not make people into skin shedding ghouls or monsters. In fact the whole premise of making large enemies or monster enemies merely from super-saturating-radiation induced evolution is preposterous

-Atomic cars would not blow up with tiny mushroom clouds in evidence, and you certainly would live it you were only 100 feet away from one when it goes.

- Bottles caps seem like unlikely currency unless they were used as merely scrap metal…which in the game they are not. Moreover, there is far more real scrap metal in the world that is easier to collect then a bottle cap.

- Antigravity robots with saw blade arms are improbably because the field effect under a hovering robot would crush anything under it OR the energy needs to lift the robot using other means would too expensive.

Long story short, the enemies – setting - concept of the society shown in Fallout is the worst sort of fantasy crud.

Totally agree Klepek, I don't like fantasy at all really, but I still enjoy The Elder Scrolls games.

@patrickklepek said:

FFVIII, also known as the best of the PlayStation Final Fantasy games. Haters of the Junction system can take a hike, thank ya.

These words. They make no sense.

Patrick, I respect you as a human being; what you stand for, your enthusiasm for whatever it is you choose to do at any given time, but Final Fantasy IX is clearly superior to VIII.

I love you Patrick, please be on every Bombcast.

I kind of have the same thing with Dragon Age. I had to force myself to finish reading Lord of the Rings, and I've still never finished Oblivion (which is why I'm the only person not excited about Skyrim), but DA:O really grabbed me with its story, characters and dialogue (DA2, not so much).
 
Also: Thanks for stepping up for FFVIII. Have a lot of fond memories of it, although I still like VII better (and I'll take both of them over FFIX).

Don't worry Patrick, I like the Junction/Draw system as well.

Also, even though I like both fantasy and science fiction, I couldn't get into Oblivion, but that was probably due to the fact that I had played Fallout 3 before and so Oblivion felt dated control-wise. I hope they improve the melee combat in Skyrim and hope the updated engine and tweaks in the gameplay will allow me to invest another 150 hours into a Bethesda game.

GiantBomb.com, the personal blog of Patrick Klepek

Patrick needs a calendar and spell checker.

*whispers*skyrim*whispers*

Nothing was "ingenius" about Fallout 3.

I have a similar distaste for fantasy. I read almost all the forgotten realms books, I used to really be into fantasy. But somehow it lost it's appeal for me. I still play the games, I liked dragon age origins quite a bit. I played oblivion for around thirty hours or so. But I was able to immerse myself in fallout 3 almost completely. I'm sure that one main reason is that FO3 was like the third game I got for my 360 after not playing games for like 8 years. I was blown away at the amount of stuff that was in that game and the freedom to do whatever I wanted. And the fact that I was wandering around destroyed DC. I was unemployed at the time and I sunk 700 hours into that game.

At any rate I'm totally stoked for skyrim and like Patrick I'm hoping to get immersed as much as I did with FO3. I don't think it'll hook me quite as much but I still can't wait to play

Most Fantasy settings do ape father Tolkien, and it's ok, because it's tradition and it works. I think Morrowind is a good example of just how different the 'Elves & Orcs' setting can be. From being called an N'wah by some brat in the Camonna Tong, to coming to understand what that word means about the elves' longstanding goal to kick the empire off the Island, to becoming a part of the prophecies aimed at doing it, it's a great and unique setting. Hugely empowering.

Fantasy is all about making a world where ideas we enjoy and want can be freely expressed. Zombie apocalypses are definitely survival fantasy, you can understand why the settings are what they are. It can be anywhere - the point is that a fantasy setting is always convenient to the storyteller's plans. Other settings are far more arbitrary.

I feel exactly the same way. I've never been into fantasy games or RPGs, but I'm actually contemplating buying Skyrim. There's something about the Dragons and setting that really appeals to me.

@somethingdumb said:

@aceofspudz said:

At least within a science fiction context you're albe to imagine humanity evolving into that direction one day.

Navel gazing and spelling mistakes. The twin scourges of Klepak.

Incomplete sentences and spelling mistakes: the twin scourges of aceogspudz

What are you, his fiance? this is a comments section with different standards just watch as i flagrantly violate the rules of standard written english and nobody cares because im a nobody who is not being paid to be a writer

That up top is an article, and Klepek is a pretty good writer but I expect the things he posts to be more than barely-thought out rough drafts. I knew from the moment I read the head and subhead that it would be a Klepek blog post about gaming induced emotional states.

Imo if he wants to raise the intellectual level of the site, that's fine with me, but he needs to put more thought into these posts. That's why I charge him with navel gazing; it's like we're his college professors and we're letting a bright kid with a good writing style pass despite his lazy content.

The only thing i hate about the fantasy genre. Is how often they potray characters with British accents and even some Slavic or Latin ones. Yet they leave out Scandinavia constantly, despite 90% of the lore in these fantasy games being based on Norse mythology and only like 10% being celtic or some other crap. Even in SKYRIM a game with basicaly a reimagination of Norse culture and Vikings will probably have British accents Lol.

I'm not gonna give Bethesda any money until they can show me that they can make a technically sound game that doesn't crash every two hours and then decide to corrupt my only save file for good measure. 

All genres are good if they're done well. It does get tiring to play uninspired titles with meathead space marines and Wagnerian Renaissance fair rejects. The most important thing is new ideas brought to life with inspired enemy/ level design and addictive gameplay. (I'm thankful for Team ico and Ken Levine) Bethesda has deeply immersive worlds but I like that you can also follow a linear story. Oblivion's levels seemed far too repetive, there were high points to be sure but I like quality over quantity. I was thrilled to actually see a terrifying boss-sized character in fallout 3! Thank you goddamowicz for designing mega mutants.

Patrick needs a calendar and spell checker.

I have been trying to articulate this exact point for a long time. I even made a blog post about it here a while ago. I wanted to like Dragon Age because I LOVE Mass Effect, but I just couldn't get any hype for it. I realize they are very different games, but the core of what I love about Mass Effect is the "Bioware-ness" of it. Anywhoo, great article Patrick!

I've met quite a few people with this same aversion to fantasy worlds which they don't extend to SF worlds. I've accepted that it's just what it is, and don't bother trying to cure people of it (we all have our preferences). The fundamental suspension of disbelief seems the same to me. Believing in magic is, in essence, no different than believing in FLT travel. Believing in elves is essentially no different than believing in aliens of whatever form. Increasingly--especially in games, but also in fiction--there is no functional difference between tech and magic. We have magic spells that push enemies away, we have magnetic fields or quantum effects that do the same thing. We have mana. Or element zero. Everything has a cooldown timer. Count on the power of RPGs to level magic and technology to different names for the same thing. I'm not sure if Arthur C. Clarke would be proud or appalled. Everything is interchangeable.

It strikes me that the only substantive difference is aesthetics. That alone, however, seems enough to justify disliking one over the other.

Sci-fi has always been my most hated setting, usually. Unless it's taken to an unreal level filled with explosions and mechs.

I can understand how a certain "genre" or setting just may not be for you....I go for Fantasy and Sci-Fi....but "modern-da" and "real world" games bore me to death...GTA's...LA Noire...MW..etc...yaaaaaaaaaaawn...but your Dragon Age:Origins, Mass Effects, etc...love em.

Not to say I haven't enjoyed games in "modern" or more "real world" settings..just they don't really grab me.

and I used to be like that about FPS...used to hate them...now I enjoy em..but yah

oh i didnt know this was a blog now. weird man weird.

@Tan: Oh, so Warhammer 40k?

@Clonedzero said:

oh i didnt know this was a blog now. weird man weird.

I think that since without Patrick there would be much less article content (since Alex is in NY and works for Screened as well), he may have some flexibility in deciding what he wants to write about.

Besides, GB was never the #1 place to come for video game news. There's already plenty of other sites where they only do that. As long as it doesn't turn into sensationalism like Kotaku, I'm okay with it.

The Junction system is not the reason FFVIII was bad.

P.S. 99:99:99 is more than 100 hours ;)

It was Morrowind that taught me to love open world. But then, I've always loved fantasy and sci-fi.

Final Fantasy 8 was the worst by a mile, purely because of one word. Draw.

Good article, I don't dislike fantasy settings but to me sci fi is far more interesting. Although I am a sucker for good dragon fights.

The caveat I'll make in modern fiction is Game of Thrones, but that's better described as hard fantasy.

You keep using zat vord. I do not sink it means vat you sink it means.

for sure my most anticipated game this year

I had the same feeling when I exited the vault in Fallout 3. I managed to get about another two hours into the game before I got bored and moved on. The same thing happens to me in all Bethesda games. I make it 5, 10, or even 20 hours into the game and then simply get bored and move on. Dunno why. I guess the gameplay just doesn't appeal to me all that much.

I used to have an aversion to Westerns, but then I got to the point that I judged a movie, game, or novel on its own merits of character, plot and artistic quality. I have enjoyed many Westerns now after growing out of my irrational prejudice. I hope Patrick can have the same epiphany for "fantasy".

I still feel bad for Jeff never enjoying Red Dead Redemption based on his prejudice of Westerns, mainly because that very well could have been me several years ago.

Your comment on FFVIII Patrick, really brings a tear to my eye. GOD BLESS YOU PATRICK!

"FFVIII, also known as the best of the PlayStation Final Fantasy games. Haters of the Junction system can take a hike, thank ya."

I similarly saw my aversion to open world games disappear this generation, although it wasn't Fallout 3 that had the biggest impact on me, it was Grand Theft Auto 4. At the time GTA4 really wowed me compared to its predecessors, to me it felt much much more like a well-rounded game than its PS2 predecessors that may have at times offered more freedom or customisation systems, but always felt like they suffered mechanically for the scope of the game. This is funny because going back to GTA4, the combat is pretty damn terrible.

That's actually one of the bigger things that stand out to me this generation, open world games have become much more enjoyable than they used to be - as far as I'm concerned. Games like InFamous, Assassin's Creed and Red Read Redemption barely have to sacrifice mechanically to provide larger environments and more "freeform" (term perhaps used a little loosely in some of those cases) gameplay.

On another note, Final Fantasy VIII was something of a formative experience for me and I'll always hold a soft spot for it, though I think Final Fantasy IX is my favourite Final Fantasy of the PSX games.