Before spending 60 bones for Skyrim, if you did not know what you were getting into you could have bought Oblivion (elder scrolls 4) for 10 or 15$.

I've tried a couple of Call Of Duty games before and never enjoyed them, so I don't even pay attention to those games anymore.

@CharleyTony said:

Before spending 60 bones for Skyrim, if you did not know what you were getting into you could have bought Oblivion (elder scrolls 4) for 10 or 15$.

I've tried a couple of Call Of Duty games before and never enjoyed them, so I don't even pay attention to those games anymore.

This. I remember when Halo 2 was bigger than Jesus one of my friend's Dad went out and bought an Xbox and Halo 2 on launch day because he wanted to see 'what all the fuss was about.'

This is a man who -at that point- had only ever played Zelda games up until then. Different strokes.

If this game came out with super modern animations and ZERO jank or bugs it would be in development as long as Too Human or Duke Nukem Forever was.

@phrali: I've never played these games before, and I've never played an MMO either. A couple months ago I was totally ready to just skip this, cos a lot of it does just look awful. But then I bought it cos it was all over everywhere.

The weapons are slow and glide through stuff, pepole who are on fire don't NOTICE they're on fire, electrocuting people in water gives no bonus at all, freezing people doesn't freeze em, and I am dissapointed by a lot of stuff.

Here's what turned me around though: shooting 2 spells at once is cool, ressurecting dead enemies as zombies who fight for you is an awesome mechanic, I can summon flying demon shit to fight for me, and there's a tonne of goofy stuff out in the world-- I've only had it for a couple days. Finding a temple thing in the middle of nowhere that makes you regenerate health twice as fast is cool. THAT'S the point of the game; to go out exploring and find whacky stuff.

There are people who will turn you into a vampire in this game, you can make enemies fight each other, you can lockpick into people's houses to steal all their shit n sell it- That's why people like this game. Actually some hitmen came after me because I stole all someone's shit, and that was really unexpected.

I also fucking hate that you can take a giant wall of fire in the face for 10 seconds without moving. That's why I've never played these fantasy games, or MMOs, or anything like this, cos it makes the whole game just feel like numbers in a simulation. But I'm enjoing the good parts.

Elder scrolls has become the Grand Theft Auto of the fantasy genre.

GTA never sat well with me because the world felt too artificial and fake. You're always the prime target of arrest even though NPC's would be committing similar traffic crimes, murder, etc. That unrealism took me out of the GTA experience rather quickly.

In Elder Scrolls, the exact opposite becomes the problem for a fantasy game. The combat is so stiff. Can't dodge or feint. You can't really tell if the enemy is getting hurt save for their lifebar.

Yet underneath both these games' flaws is the meat and potatoes that their respective fan base eats up. If you can't dig into it, then the game simply isn't for you.

@Lunar_Aura:I've bin playing it for a couple days, and yea I actually think this is a really similar game to GTA.

@Dagmar said:

@RsistncE said:

@ICryCauseImEmo said:

@ShiftyMagician said:

@RsistncE said:

OP has a point about some major fucking flaws in Bethesda games. How people can just look past all that and say that the game is the best that's come out this year is ridiculous. Are gamers that stereotypically nerdy that all it takes to get them to look past a shit game is to give it a fantasy-RPG theme?

Some of us are satisfied enough about just how large the world actually is, as well as all the things you can do. Hardly any other developer ever goes this far and knowing this, it is amazing that it actually came out without being completely broken (at least for me, had only a few hilarious issues that fixed itself out eventually and only once had to reload a save to get a dungeon puzzle to trigger). Just a subjective opinion about it but as other people said, this game isn't for everyone.

This name one other game with a world this big with so much to do and i'll bite the bullet.

This argument is one of quantity over quality. I don't know why, but it seems that people would rather play 100 hours of relatively mediocre gameplay over 6 hours of tightly scripted well put together gameplay. It's like choosing 100 pounds of horse shit over 1 pound of gold. I can't agree with this sentiment in any way but hey, if the majority of people seem to favour it then all I can do is wish it wasn't so and move on.

Extremely ignorant thing to say IMO. Play the main quest line and yaay.. you have your linearity. I would rather play 100 hours of solitaire than 6 hours of "tightly scripted" gameplay.

That's the thing though, if they packaged the game as a 5 hour main quest only linear game it would get shit scores because the quality just isn't there to stand up to games like Portal 2, Batman AC etc. The strength (in terms of popularity, critical reception etc.) of the Elder Scrolls games comes from sheer quantity (size of the world, number of quests etc.) even if the quality is pretty lacking.

People always brush off how broken Bethesda games are and how terrible the combat is always. I guess I just care more about playing games than experiencing giant worlds, and other people see it the other way around. I dunno, I'll probably buy Skyrim when I can get it for $20.

I once knew a man who didn't like Braveheart! You two should meet.

I understand the OP completely. The game has many flaws, but people have come, erroneously or not, to accept them and sometimes do so blindly.  
 
For someone new to Elder Scrolls games, it is very difficult to understand the appeal. 
For Elder Scrolls fans, it's difficult to understand the opposite view point. 
 
And so the argument will never end. 

@RsistncE said:

@Dagmar said:

@RsistncE said:

@ICryCauseImEmo said:

@ShiftyMagician said:

@RsistncE said:

OP has a point about some major fucking flaws in Bethesda games. How people can just look past all that and say that the game is the best that's come out this year is ridiculous. Are gamers that stereotypically nerdy that all it takes to get them to look past a shit game is to give it a fantasy-RPG theme?

Some of us are satisfied enough about just how large the world actually is, as well as all the things you can do. Hardly any other developer ever goes this far and knowing this, it is amazing that it actually came out without being completely broken (at least for me, had only a few hilarious issues that fixed itself out eventually and only once had to reload a save to get a dungeon puzzle to trigger). Just a subjective opinion about it but as other people said, this game isn't for everyone.

This name one other game with a world this big with so much to do and i'll bite the bullet.

This argument is one of quantity over quality. I don't know why, but it seems that people would rather play 100 hours of relatively mediocre gameplay over 6 hours of tightly scripted well put together gameplay. It's like choosing 100 pounds of horse shit over 1 pound of gold. I can't agree with this sentiment in any way but hey, if the majority of people seem to favour it then all I can do is wish it wasn't so and move on.

Extremely ignorant thing to say IMO. Play the main quest line and yaay.. you have your linearity. I would rather play 100 hours of solitaire than 6 hours of "tightly scripted" gameplay.

That's the thing though, if they packaged the game as a 5 hour main quest only linear game it would get shit scores because the quality just isn't there to stand up to games like Portal 2, Batman AC etc. The strength (in terms of popularity, critical reception etc.) of the Elder Scrolls games comes from sheer quantity (size of the world, number of quests etc.) even if the quality is pretty lacking.

How is the quality lacking? In terms of bugs, glitches etc? or Actual game play writing etc? I guess it really does come down to preference. Yes the combat is not a combo in depth systems however it's enough to make me at least enjoy slaying dragons, and bandits. Take for example Mount and Blade Warband that game is 35 bucks has the graphics of a two year old finger painting yet the sheer enjoyment out of the basic combat is amazing. Thats kind of how I feel with skyrim as well. Not to mention there is just so much to do outside of fighting. I still stop near Winter run and stair up at the sky because you can see the aura borealis and its almost breath taking.

I am a huge RPG fan but I didn´t like Oblivion at all. So I tried (rented) Skyrim and had pretty much the same issues I had with Oblivion, for example the fighting. I am not too bummed out though because I was expecting it. You cannot like every game and I think it´s great that so many people are having a blast with Skyrim. There are enough other games to play at the moment if you don´t "get" Skyrim.

Your points are valid, Elder Scrolls hasn't ever had a good combat system, and the terrain can get a bit glitchy with getting stuck, if you can't overlook those issues then you're not going to enjoy the game at all, I've been playing since Morrowind, and I love all of the games, guess I'm just in tune with them.

The combat is fine. There are only so many ways you can do first person melee combat. It is amazing if you are using magic. I have had zero technical issues. The graphics are great. The animations are great. Explore a massive world and see what you may encounter. Forge your own path. That is the point. If you don't get it, then I feel sorry for you.

People love to hate what other people love.

Part of the issue here is that most of us 1) enjoy the combat enough, even if none of us believe it is best-in-class, and 2) understand the jankiness comes from emphasizing exploration and freedom over stability. Critics are right to point out the issues, but they don't seem to realize that this is a conscious choice on the part of the developers. They could make a completely stable Elder Scrolls game if they wanted to, but it would mean a smaller, less-free world in which to roam. It's simply a matter of economics for them: no company could afford to make such a huge game world and perfect every interaction. They know their market well: we're willing to trade off stability in order to get something that no one else is really offering: a huge, open world with very few limitations on how quests are completed.

We're not giving Bethesda a pass. It's more of a gentleman's agreement: they give us big-ass worlds no other developers seem to want to attempt, and we recognize that what we're demanding is impossible to deliver in a pristine package. It's not a new agreement; it's been that way since Redguard, at least, and in full force since Morrowind. Pretending that this is a somehow incomprehensible compromise is silly. If you don't agree, that's fine. Play Dark Souls instead. It's a fantasy RPG with a very different set of priorities. It's hardly worth arguing over this. There's a reason why both types of games exist. Be happy that the gaming world is large enough to support both types of games. Pitting them against each other is like wondering whether the Celtics could beat the Red Sox in an ice hockey game.

By the sound of it, you played Demon's/Dark Souls before playing an Elder Scrolls game. Those are really different games, and they need to be approached at different angles to appreciate them. Plus, I haven't had any serious issues, and I love the silly bugs like random flying pots.

I think what the OP, and others who are voicing issues with this game, need to try and find what parts of this game they like and weigh those things versus what they don't like. It's easy to be swept up by what is amazing with this game and/or to overly focus on what doesn't work perfectly. But I think a smart consumer should try to determine if the good outweighs the bad and try not to focus to heavily on the good or bad when making the decision to buy, or in the case of the OP sell back, the game.

Like any other game no matter how good it is there are people who like and those who don't.

Nothing to see here people. Move on.

If you dont get it, you just dont get it. and this game might not be for you.

I think it's safe to say that if people weren't having fun playing these games, they wouldn't forgive its many faults. Hell hath no fury like a gamer (on the Internet) scorned.

I speak as a relative outsider to the Elder Scrolls fold, but this is something you have to deal with in just about any open world game, ain't it? "Jank" is around every corner in Infamous, I can't hardly take a step in Red Dead without finding someone embedded in the geometry, but I love those games anyway because the entertainment value I find in them far outweighs any weird crap and annoying mechanics. (And secretly, I like it when bizarre stuff happens)

Admittedly there's probably more to "endure" about an Elder Scroll, but I'd argue you're appropriately more-than rewarded with an experience that no other series offers. Naturally, it all falls to where your fancy is at. If you're not into roleplaying and weaving the tale of your character, I can see Skyrim not being the thing for you.

The game is simply more than the sum of its parts. We can tally a huge list of pros and cons and, on paper, Skyrim would probably be a mediocre game. But you have to understand, the human brain experiences the environment holistically and eventually "gives in" and ignores little bits and pieces. It eventually just gets the big picture.

My advice to you is give it some time, you only played it for a handful of hours. Give it more than 5-6. I think the perfect examples are reviewers. They HAVE to play for a ridiculous amount of time to give a thorough review of a game. They all played Skyrim for well over 20-30 hours and look at their consensus over at Metacritic: 66 out of 66 gave it an amazingly positive review. They all saw the flaws that you mentioned and cursed Bethesda for them, but they all somehow still gave the game a glowing review.

I see a lot of people in this thread are saying that you're right about the flaws, but that you should suck it up because this is Bethesda. I think that's the wrong way of looking at it: I think you WILL suck it up unwillingly. Just keep playing!

You know what I don't get? Avatar. Why the fuck did that movie gross over two billion dollars? 

@Bwast said:

Games aren't made for everyone.

And this fact makes me unbearably happy. If the OP's problems were addressed, I don't think I'd like Bethesda.

I kind of agree on most of what you're saying but I think that if you give the game an other chans and try to look past the bland combat it's a pretty good game. I didn't like Oblivion or Fallout because of the same reasons you don't like Skyrim but I feel Skyrim has improved on all fronts just enough to be enjoyable.

@gesi1223 said:

The people defending Skyrim like it's actually well put together video game make me wonder what we'll be getting in the next 5 years of games. Hopefully not the same thing, but who knows? "Hardcore gamers" will buy anything these days.

There's more content and RPG-charm in Skyrim than any other game released this generation. Man, I'll soak in a giant pool of janky mess if it allows me to have the experiences that only TES provides.

sorry you suck so much

You should get a horse. It's normal run is nearly as fast as sprint and it has it's own sprint that lasts way longer and charges pretty fast. you can look at yourself all angles in 3rd person mode with your weapon sheathed

I can understand how someone might not get what is great about Elder Scrolls games. The combat isnt the deepest in the genre, and the open world draw doesnt become apparent until you have played with the game for a while. I had problems with all of Bethesda's previous games the first few hours that I played them, and mostly for the same reason -- I would play for a couple hours and there was nothing that really drew me in. The combat is a little tedious, the starting items arent a lot of fun, and the opening quests are very basic. The beginning of Bethesda's games have never been their strongest element. However, after about 5-7 hours of playing with my first character, I always just restarted the game with a new character, and my opinion of the game completely flips. I think the major reason is that once I restart the game I know what to expect and I know how the leveling and customization works. Once I have a handle on that stuff, I always enjoy Bethesda's games.

All that said, I think you are selling the combat and animations a bit short. Obviously they arent the best in the genre, but they are probably the best in the series and they certainly arent broken by any means. I think most people are able to look past that stuff because Elder Scrolls games involve so much more than just combat and animations.

Ultimately, it seems unfair to hold up Elder Scroll games (or any giant open world game) to the same standards of as a short scripted game. There is going to be more bugs/issues because the game space is just that much bigger and you can't just script everything into a button mashing sequence. People want much more fancy combat with dodges and feints and stuff, but they don't think about how to properly implement it so it doesn't bug out the game's environments. Also most of the stuff wouldn't work at all in the first person and you can already do much of it by trying to step out of the way of blows. It just isn't a third person action game like Dark Souls.

There are obvious issues, but the meat of the game is a fucking giant world, one of the biggest I have scene. I am sure there has been bigger randomly generated games out there, but seriously most of the random dungeons I have gone to have their own little unique storylines and characters. It isn't a perfect game but in its genre, I think it is a giant leap compared to Oblivion.

One thing I think Bethesda did screw up is a lot of the wood textures which look low resolution, and make things look uglier than they should be. Obviously a mod will come and fix it, but that was a pretty major fuck up because alot of the other textures look great but especially wood looks like really dated and low res.

Ultimately, it is a question of if you want a giant unique world to go adventuring in that has some jank in it or a much more restrictive experience that is more polished?

"You should have done more research." I keep seeing this. Yeah, he should have, and it shouldn't have been a day 1 purchase, but this doesn't address anything. This just says "Hey listen, you'd have known how much of this game was going to be terrible if you had just not listened to anything their marketing team put out and stuck to reading all of the criticisms people had about the old games." Personally I'm not giving them any slack for not having figured out how to make the combat feel decent over several years of iteration. I can deal with a good level of jank in my big open world games where stuff has to spawn randomly on the map for me to interact with and code goes awry but swinging a sword or hitting a guy with a spell is just so damn integral to a fantasy RPG that taking a lazy combat system and plugging a 'staggered' animation in for enemies with shields isn't making me feel really great about the company.

I played a huge amount of morrowind and everything there felt sort of evenly janky, and I loved every minute of it, without having any expectations for the combat since the game felt closer to Might and Magic than Dark Messiah of Might and Magic. In oblivion the combat and level scaling made me drop out of it about ten hours in. In Skyrim they've fixed the level scaling and added a ton of neat new stuff but the combat still feels borked. Yes, awesome world full of random shit to do, sweet. They still need to fire the guys working on combat and animations. Seriously. Yeah, you can walk for ten hours all over the world, but the shit still looks janky as hell when you have to interact with it. Fire those people. They are dragging you down. Everything else is great.

@DeF said:

maybe you should learn from this that you shouldn't flat out buy a game just because everyone is hyped. do some research if it's part of an established franchise.

what you're describing sounds like the typical bethesda jankiness and bug-fare so that's nothing new.

This. We come to a bethesda game because the immersion and story is good enough to look past the jankiness of the game. If you can't handle that then this sure is the wrong game for you.

You obviously don't come to games for the same reason someone wanted to play an RPG like this does. And that's fine, there is nothing wrong with it. Just learn from this and never buy an RPG game again I guess.

Reading some of your later responses you obviously have no idea how difficult it is to create a game of this scale and keep it bug free (It would take years upon years of bug fixing and by the time you could release the game completely bug free it would feel years old) A non-bethesda example is every grand theft auto game ever. Those are ridden with bugs and general jankiness (and horrible combat too) but people love them anyways.

edit: and I didn't even consider how huge of a task it is to even FIND these bugs. In a game that is completely open like this you simply can't find all of the bugs until thousands and thousands of people play the game because you can do pretty much anything in any order and do it in many different ways.

@SonicBoyster said:

"You should have done more research." I keep seeing this. Yeah, he should have, and it shouldn't have been a day 1 purchase, but this doesn't address anything. This just says "Hey listen, you'd have known how much of this game was going to be terrible if you had just not listened to anything their marketing team put out and stuck to reading all of the criticisms people had about the old games."

This applies to anything that has ever been sold to anyone. Whether you want to admit it or not, at this point he should have known better then assuming the advertising was 100% accurate.

@SpencerTucksen said:

@Mordukai said:

@phrali:

1. You can always switch to the 3rd person camera view.
2. Nothing new here. The combat system, melee in particular, hasn't changed much since Morrowind. They did improve the ranged and magic.
3. I don't think the first dragon is suppose to impress you but just give you an introduction to the game.
4. It's bethesda, get used to lazy animation.
5. Could be just game lag or a bug. Again, it's Bethesda. Get used to bugs.

Give it about 10 more hours and if by then you find yourself still getting bored and completely uninterested then give it up because this game could be not for you.

1. You still can't see the face. The camera pans constantly so that you can't see the face. 2. But if people don't want to be ranged, it's kinda boring since there's no hit detection and you don't FEEL like you're using a mace or whatever, which takes some people out of games. 3. Agreed. THough I do still find the dragons to be less than stellar. 4. People shouldn't have to get used to the lazy animation. Take an extra six months to release the game and handle that. The game will still sell like hot cakes, but there won't be so many people complaining about the lazy animation. 5. Again, shouldn't have to get used to it. It's something that should have been handled. But hey, maybe that's just me. And I agree on your final point that it may just not be for him.

Incorrect. If you sheath your weapon(s), you can pan around your character.

@DonPixel:

If you really think it's that bad then stop playing and don't complain. The fact that you say this game has lame lore just emphasizes that you shouldn't be bothering playing this because the lore and the interwoven story is so incredible. Just go play something else.

Let all of us Skyrim lovers love our game with its incredible environments, awesome quests, and hilarious moments.

@The_Laughing_Man said:

@Hizang said:

You know that same people also like Dark Souls, there what I call insane people.

I loved Dark souls. I have over 100 hours in it. What does that make me?

a masochist

@MsAtheism said:

@DonPixel:

If you really think it's that bad then stop playing and don't complain. The fact that you say this game has lame lore just emphasizes that you shouldn't be bothering playing this because the lore and the interwoven story is so incredible. Just go play something else.

Let all of us Skyrim lovers love our game with its incredible environments, awesome quests, and hilarious moments.

Tha Fuck you talking about?

I love all Bethesda (including Skyrim) games, you should bother on reading the text before posting.. I was actually making reference to DarkSouls because the OP was comparing Skyrim with Dark Souls which in fact has scarce lore and very poor narrative elements compared to Skyrim.

@HumanoidTyphoon said:

@SpencerTucksen said:

@Mordukai said:

@phrali:

1. You can always switch to the 3rd person camera view.
2. Nothing new here. The combat system, melee in particular, hasn't changed much since Morrowind. They did improve the ranged and magic.
3. I don't think the first dragon is suppose to impress you but just give you an introduction to the game.
4. It's bethesda, get used to lazy animation.
5. Could be just game lag or a bug. Again, it's Bethesda. Get used to bugs.

Give it about 10 more hours and if by then you find yourself still getting bored and completely uninterested then give it up because this game could be not for you.

1. You still can't see the face. The camera pans constantly so that you can't see the face. 2. But if people don't want to be ranged, it's kinda boring since there's no hit detection and you don't FEEL like you're using a mace or whatever, which takes some people out of games. 3. Agreed. THough I do still find the dragons to be less than stellar. 4. People shouldn't have to get used to the lazy animation. Take an extra six months to release the game and handle that. The game will still sell like hot cakes, but there won't be so many people complaining about the lazy animation. 5. Again, shouldn't have to get used to it. It's something that should have been handled. But hey, maybe that's just me. And I agree on your final point that it may just not be for him.

Incorrect. If you sheath your weapon(s), you can pan around your character.

If you click and hold the right stick, you pan the camera and move it farther and nearer to your character.

@LordXavierBritish said:

Why do people get so defensive whenever someone posts anything negative about this game.

I haven't seen anyone post anything negative toward him...

I think Dark Souls and Skyrim have very different audiences, Skyrim is all about exploration and combat is kind of a secondary thing. Dark Souls is all about its very unique combat system and the desperate difficulty of fighting enemies.

I do agree that the melee system in Skyrim is one of its weakest parts, but honestly I think it is kind of up to the player to try the other systems out. I think archery feels fantastic, and is fun. It is more challenging than melee but there is a great sense of challenge and the overall feel of bow just works. Magic is really great too.

It isn't the best melee game in the world (although there is more depth to it than people think, you can do different types of hits by pressing a direction + hitting).

Anyone who is using Dark Souls as an example as a game that's supposedly better crafted than anything Bethesda has put out is about as blind as anyone who would claim that Bethesda games don't have ridiculous glitches in them.

Which, for the most part, nobody is doing. Look at the "awesome moments" thread in Skyrim and see how many of those are recognized glitches that people found extremely hilarious.

Dark Souls is a fine game. I owned it for a few months. Is it free from glitches, even ones that affect gameplay? No. No. A million times no. In fact, the glitches in Dark Souls are just as unforgivable as any ones in a Bethesda game. Blighttown alone is enough to drive any sane person to murder because of just how poorly it runs. The framerate is chugs to a sickeningly low amount of frames in that section (that LARGE section) of the game, even if the game is installed to a harddrive. And that's not the only problem. Occasional button latency, poor lock-on camera design, poor implementation of online features. All these things are in the game and, given its precise nature, make the game worse for it.

Do people overlook these flaws? Yes, as does anyone who enjoys a game in spite of its problems. And that's my problem with people who are explicitly using it as an example of everything Skyrim is not. Both games are great in their own ways, and both games are extremely flawed.

The long-winded point I am trying to make is that people should just enjoy the games they enjoy playing and not be so concerned what other games are doing. OP didn't like Skyrim. That's fine. He has legitimate quarrels with it. He has some ridiculous quarrels with it as well, but that's cool. Just everybody chill out.

Theres ALWAYS a topic like this within the week of the release of a major title.I mean I get it you don't have to like the game but it's just so predictable and repetitive.Like if you don't like the game ok but do you really have to start a new topic about it just so everyone knows about it?

@ImperiousRix said:

Anyone who is using Dark Souls as an example as a game that's supposedly better crafted than anything Bethesda has put out is about as blind as anyone who would claim that Bethesda games don't have ridiculous glitches in them.

Which, for the most part, nobody is doing. Look at the "awesome moments" thread in Skyrim and see how many of those are recognized glitches that people found extremely hilarious.

Dark Souls is a fine game. I owned it for a few months. Is it free from glitches, even ones that affect gameplay? No. No. A million times no. In fact, the glitches in Dark Souls are just as unforgivable as any ones in a Bethesda game. Blighttown alone is enough to drive any sane person to murder because of just how poorly it runs. The framerate is chugs to a sickeningly low amount of frames in that section (that LARGE section) of the game, even if the game is installed to a harddrive. And that's not the only problem. Occasional button latency, poor lock-on camera design, poor implementation of online features. All these things are in the game and, given its precise nature, make the game worse for it.

Do people overlook these flaws? Yes, as does anyone who enjoys a game in spite of its problems. And that's my problem with people who are explicitly using it as an example of everything Skyrim is not. Both games are great in their own ways, and both games are extremely flawed.

The long-winded point I am trying to make is that people should just enjoy the games they enjoy playing and not be so concerned what other games are doing. OP didn't like Skyrim. That's fine. He has legitimate quarrels with it. He has some ridiculous quarrels with it as well, but that's cool. Just everybody chill out.

When I was reading the exaltation of dark souls over Skyrim I was wondering about this. Very good. And they are such different games anyways. I would not play Dark souls for a skyrim experience and visa versa. It seems to me, Dark souls is a modified corridor crawl in concept. Skyrim is open world exploration, except in confined areas. They, besides the inherent technical flaws to either, are going to be very different in the way they are experienced. I wish ppl. could compare to another rpg like game for comparison instead. It would make way more sense. Perhaps unique to both is the particular territories they work, and perhaps they own their seperate territories without overlap, except in superficial ways..swords, magic etc.

@bybeach:

And that's partially my point. People who play Dark Souls shouldn't be playing Skyrim if they're expecting a similar experience and vice versa. That, and the fact that both games have flaws in both the technical and design departments.

Perfect games are rare, if not altogether nonexistent, so these comparisons just miff me a bit.

You don't feel anything when you strike an enemy? Do.you have rumble disabled?

I'm completely indifferent because I've played Fallout 3 and Oblivion and had sort of a "ehhh" experience with them. Oblivion got so boring and repetitive. They literally took everything that I found wrong in Oblivion and removed or improved it in Skyrim. I don't have the patience to break everything down. Maybe I'm just to old and remember what graphics looked like before specular, bump and normal mapping. It looks amazing and technically is unbelievable for as few problems as it's having. Most games are so scripted and stripped down that the game is playing you.

thanks for everyone for the interesting discussion.

to those that are agreeing with me, i appreciate knowing that i'm not crazy and that these flaws and crap are obvious to others besides me.

to those that are disagreeing with me, thanks for being friendly and not going all "you suck game is awesome" for the most part. and i'm sure you will all have countless hours of fun and good for you.

i never meant to compare this to dark souls. i know they are totally different games. i loved dark souls but i know full well that it had serious problems fucking blighttown how could they release that with the 2 fps framerate seriously. i was just expecting the skyrim dragons to be like the ones in the commercial and they aren't. DS was just the first example that came to mind with a really scary dragon.

for my part, i'm done with skyrim and will never buy another bethesda product again.

but seriously, interesting discussion that prob would have quickly degenerated into fanboy mudslinging on any other message board, yay GB community.

@ICryCauseImEmo said:

@ShiftyMagician said:

@RsistncE said:

OP has a point about some major fucking flaws in Bethesda games. How people can just look past all that and say that the game is the best that's come out this year is ridiculous. Are gamers that stereotypically nerdy that all it takes to get them to look past a shit game is to give it a fantasy-RPG theme?

Some of us are satisfied enough about just how large the world actually is, as well as all the things you can do. Hardly any other developer ever goes this far and knowing this, it is amazing that it actually came out without being completely broken (at least for me, had only a few hilarious issues that fixed itself out eventually and only once had to reload a save to get a dungeon puzzle to trigger). Just a subjective opinion about it but as other people said, this game isn't for everyone.

This name one other game with a world this big with so much to do and i'll bite the bullet.

actually this is game is suprislingy unbuggy ive only had one glitch that was really annoying but besides that nothing.

with what they have accomplisehd i am extremely satisfied.

Send me your copy then if you're not enjoying it <3