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    The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

    Game » consists of 30 releases. Released Nov 11, 2011

    The fifth installment in Bethesda's Elder Scrolls franchise is set in the eponymous province of Skyrim, where the ancient threat of dragons, led by the sinister Alduin, is rising again to threaten all mortal races. Only the player, as the prophesied hero the Dovahkiin, can save the world from destruction.

    Todd Howard two minute character creation interview.

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    Twitchey

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    #1  Edited By Twitchey

      

      This video is old but I haven't seen anyone posting about it. In the beginning Todd explains how you level your skills. 
     One thing that surprised me is that there are no more classes. You just play the game. Unlike in Oblivion and Morrowind where someone always asked you "What is your class?". I think this leans to a more Fallout leveling style in the sense that you just level the skills you want and forget about the others.
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    galiant

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    #2  Edited By galiant

    ...which is awesome. Skyrim becoming more like Fallout is a good thing. Now give me Skyrim's version of VATS and I'll be content!

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    shiftymagician

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    #3  Edited By shiftymagician

    I say this is a very preferable change.  The main problem with classes in the former games (though I was very used to them), was that basically you had to predict your character's developments from the start to truly ensure that you have a really good character.  Just starting from nothing and working to your specialisations like in Fallout 3 would be preferable and a lot more people will appreciate it.

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    mikemcn

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    #4  Edited By mikemcn

    @Galiant said:

    ...which is awesome. Skyrim becoming more like Fallout is a good thing. Now give me Skyrim's version of VATS and I'll be content!

    M.A.T.S. - Magic Assisted Targetting system.

    I'll take my check in the mail Bethesda, thanks.

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    FajitaBoss

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    #5  Edited By FajitaBoss

    I believe in Howard he is good at streaming gameplay without dumbing it down.

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    deactivated-5f9398c1300c7

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    God damn it Bethesda. -_-

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    chainreaction01

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    #7  Edited By chainreaction01

    I don't mind this decision at all. In Oblivion, if I wanted to be a mage, then I would spec in those talents so they would be higher. If I want to be a mage in Skyrim, those mage skills will still be higher than everything else since I'm trying to be one. Although I will miss just the general ability to have a named class in that character sheet, but that's just a minor gripe.

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    Storms

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    #8  Edited By Storms

    I think this will cause a lot of people who don't understand RP yet to play as the "everything" class. This won't effect me, because I will still specialise. At least, it won't hurt me until future releases that are affected by the new, non-RP fan-base. Bethesda shapes the fans and the fans shape Bethesda... for better or worse.

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    bioblood22

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    #9  Edited By bioblood22

    I like how at the start of the game I wont have to define my character by a single choice. Good move Bethesda.

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    PeasantAbuse

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    #10  Edited By PeasantAbuse

    Really excited for this, it sounds like it's going to improve upon Oblivion quite a bit.

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    ahoodedfigure

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    #11  Edited By ahoodedfigure

    I guess it's easy to compare it to Fallout since that's what they last worked on. I haven't played Fallout since I gave up on Fallout 2, so I pretty much come from an Elder Scrolls background.
     
    I look at this as an extension of how I played the game anyway. I would start out with what I thought would fit my playing style based on the names of the skills, but then when I would get back into the world some skills would level too quickly and others were hard to level without sitting there doing the equivalent of whittling wood, and when you advanced some skills too quickly it made stat increases uneven...  I LIKED gaming the system, don't get me wrong, but I found I restarted the game a lot because, unlike appearance, it wasn't easy to gauge the kind of character I wanted based on descirptions before I even entered the game world. It's not like with pen and paper, where the GM can change the world to fit your character a bit more, or you can ask to switch stuff around so your character better fits the campaign. The world is the way it is, and if you don't quite fit in, you'll have a lot of wasted time and effort trying to realize that. 
     
    I like adapting to the world, I like imagining what I'd do in a given situation and changing my tactics, and I like it when I get some limitations, or things are less optimized and more challenging. BUT, with the system they have set up since Daggerfall, I also felt there was an unnecessary conflict between me and the system, something that just got in the way of me exploring and skilling up.
     
    So I see this as a natural progression. Now I sort of build my class as I go, based on what I've chosen to do. If I go in with an RP mindset, moving past opportunity for weapons use and just using spells, then the character builds that way, and I sort of create a mage on the fly, but I also am using the exact mage skills I want to achieve that goal. I don't have to guess how useful Alteration spells are going to be, I just use the spells I wanted to use and get the "mage" anyway. 
     
    I tend to blend tactics (utility spells, weapon specialization, and plenty of stealth), so I always created a custom class and tried my best to guess how useful it would be. Now that that's not a consideration I can just sort of dive in and, at the end, look at my character sheet and say "yeah, that looks like a weird hybrid class I never would have guessed at the start." It suggests that there will be a cool end-game reflection, where you look at the path you've traveled and, like a character from a book, finally learn what path you've travelled.
     
    The one thing I see being an issue is that if the player base tends toward certain skills, and if the Bethsoft team are keeping stats, they may look at characters in aggregate and say that certain types of skills aren't necessary anymore. It's one thing to get rid of acrobatics and athletics, which were things pretty much everyone could use, it's another to, say, get rid of a certain type of weapon or spell just because not enough people used it. This may make personalization less interesting in further ES games, where characters are even narrower in their possibilities. It's up to the Bethsoft team to avoid that pitfall.

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    Stahlbrand

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    #12  Edited By Stahlbrand

    How is this news to people following the game? "No Classes" has been a fact for months now.

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    JoeyRavn

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    #13  Edited By JoeyRavn

    @Tru3_Blu3 said:

    God damn it Bethesda. -_-

    I don't see a problem with this. It's not that I'm being forced to play a character that uses everything. If I want to go stealth, I will still be able to go stealth just like before, but not being locked out from anything by an initial choice. If anything, it gives the player even more freedom to create a character perfectly tailored to suit their needs.

    @Stahlbrand said:

    How is this news to people following the game? "No Classes" has been a fact for months now.

    Remember when the OP said that "this video is old but I haven't seen anyone posting about it"? Yeah, that. I think it was pretty clear this topic wasn't meant to be taken as news, but rather a discussion on the matter.

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    Stahlbrand

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    #14  Edited By Stahlbrand

    @JoeyRavn said:

    Remember when the OP said that "this video is old but I haven't seen anyone posting about it"? Yeah, that. I think it was pretty clear this topic wasn't meant to be taken as news, but rather a discussion on the matter.

    That may be, but it certainly seems to me that many posters are reacting to it as though it was the first time they heard of it.

    FWIW, I always made custom classes in Oblivion, and had characters in Fallout that fell along the traditional warrior (melee), thief (stealth, barehands), and wizard (ranged energy weapons) RPG class tropes. So the removal of specifically delineated class types means little and less to me.

    It always seemed to me that the majority of people who talk about their characters on the TES boards always had hybrid melee/magic classes that made heavy use of sneak attacks anyways. But that is a skewed sample, I'm sure.

    I think the change stands a better chance of working out well than failing, at any rate.

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    Storms

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    #15  Edited By Storms
    @Stahlbrand said:

    @JoeyRavn said:

    Remember when the OP said that "this video is old but I haven't seen anyone posting about it"? Yeah, that. I think it was pretty clear this topic wasn't meant to be taken as news, but rather a discussion on the matter.

    That may be, but it certainly seems to me that many posters are reacting to it as though it was the first time they heard of it.

    FWIW, I always made custom classes in Oblivion, and had characters in Fallout that fell along the traditional warrior (melee), thief (stealth, barehands), and wizard (ranged energy weapons) RPG class tropes. So the removal of specifically delineated class types means little and less to me.

    It always seemed to me that the majority of people who talk about their characters on the TES boards always had hybrid melee/magic classes that made heavy use of sneak attacks anyways. But that is a skewed sample, I'm sure.

    I think the change stands a better chance of working out well than failing, at any rate.

    Nope, just the first time I've discussed it.  
     
    As "ahoodedfigure" said, it's up to Bethesda to avoid the pitfalls.  Seems like some people are ignoring the possible pitfall here, though, of even further skill elimination due to the probably prevalency of the "every", or "mageroguewarrior" class. In a game like this, it shouldn't matter if "most" people like to do something or not, because the core is crafting your own experience. I want to be able to specialise in further installments. Hopefully, that will always be possible.
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    DaemonBlack

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    #16  Edited By DaemonBlack

    I also hope it isn't easy to make an "every" class. One thing that I think will hopefully help with Skyrims new system is the perks. If you wanna be a rogue and really good at just bows and sneaking, get all the perks related to those two. Maybe a few lockpicking here and there. That way even if you were leveling up your block or blade at later levels you won't be as effective with them as a warrior class because you missed out on most of the perks associated with those skills.

    Of course if it is easy to max out all the perks in a given skill that could be a problem. Hopefully there will be enough perks so that I can focus on 3-4 skills throughout the entire game.

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    Justin258

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    #17  Edited By Justin258

    Cool beans. 
     
    This was old news, but still good news. I'm going to try to be an acrobatic mage, but I won't let my swords go useless. 
     
    Since I'll be a mage with ranged attacks, bows and arrows will be useless. That will be what falls to the wayside, though I'll definitely keep a light one and a few arrows handy just incase I need it.

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    Stahlbrand

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    #18  Edited By Stahlbrand

    @Storms said:

    Nope, just the first time I've discussed it. As "ahoodedfigure" said, it's up to Bethesda to avoid the pitfalls. Seems like some people are ignoring the possible pitfall here, though, of even further skill elimination due to the probably prevalency of the "every", or "mageroguewarrior" class. In a game like this, it shouldn't matter if "most" people like to do something or not, because the core is crafting your own experience. I want to be able to specialise in further installments. Hopefully, that will always be possible.

    Future instalments? We've been waiting five years for TESV, lets not get ahead of ourselves worrying about a follow-up that we probably won't see until 2016, and just enjoy Skyrim in the meantime.

    I think that (as always) specialization will be the way to go - focus on a few sympathetic skills so you can run down their perk trees and build a character that excels at a few things, rather than trying to make a jack-of-all-trades with a sloppy non-cohesive build.

    When I play a Bethesda game, I like to make at least 3 characters, and play different content, different ways. In Oblivion my 'warrior' character's primary skills were 2h-Blunt, Light Armour, and Athletics, and I never used sneak or fast-travel; my mage was Destruction/Conjuration; and my theif/DB was a Kajhiit with Hand-to-Hand, Sneak skills, and eventually vampirism. I had a Redguard 'knight" style character as well, and used him for KotN. So I totally understand about crafting your own experience, that is my favourite thing about the games.

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    sreya92

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    #19  Edited By sreya92
    @Galiant said:
    ...which is awesome. Skyrim becoming more like Fallout is a good thing. Now give me Skyrim's version of VATS and I'll be content!
    No.
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    galiant

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    #20  Edited By galiant
    @sreya92
    @Galiant said:
    ...which is awesome. Skyrim becoming more like Fallout is a good thing. Now give me Skyrim's version of VATS and I'll be content!
    No.
    Yes.

    Go play Morrowind or something.
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    deactivated-5f90eabee6bba

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    So you know, like Final Fantasy II.

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    Storms

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    #22  Edited By Storms
    @Galiant said:
    @sreya92
    @Galiant said:
    ...which is awesome. Skyrim becoming more like Fallout is a good thing. Now give me Skyrim's version of VATS and I'll be content!
    No.
    Yes. Go play Morrowind or something.
    No. 
     
    I love the people who think they get to hijack TES and declare that the last game with any realism, sim elements or anything should have been Morrowind. I know you hate the very idea that people who like realism, stat management or other "boring" things should be allowed to have a game (and are just bad people, really), but nearly every other video game in the world completely lacks the elements of TES you so despise -- so how about instead of changing TES to suit your style, you just go play any other game that's already like that
     
    If you were being sarcastic or this rebuttal does not accurately reflect your own position, de-apply this comment to you and re-apply it to the sort of person for which it is an apt description.
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    bioblood22

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    #23  Edited By bioblood22

    I like the Fallout games, but I love TES, I understand taking somethings from the FO series but not to the point where it stops feeling like TES. 

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    galiant

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    #24  Edited By galiant

    @Storms said:

    @Galiant said:
    @sreya92
    @Galiant said:
    ...which is awesome. Skyrim becoming more like Fallout is a good thing. Now give me Skyrim's version of VATS and I'll be content!
    No.
    Yes. Go play Morrowind or something.
    No.

    I love the people who think they get to hijack TES and declare that the last game with any realism, sim elements or anything should have been Morrowind. I know you hate the very idea that people who like realism, stat management or other "boring" things should be allowed to have a game (and are just bad people, really), but nearly every other video game in the world completely lacks the elements of TES you so despise -- so how about instead of changing TES to suit your style, you just go play any other game that's already like that? If you were being sarcastic or this rebuttal does not accurately reflect your own position, de-apply this comment to you and re-apply it to the sort of person for which it is an apt description.

    Simply stating "no" is not a great way to start a discussion which was why I replied to him the way I did.

    But sure, I'll bite. Consider this: Having something similar to VATS in a TES game would let those of us who think the combat has always been bad and are only in it for the story, characters, atmosphere and exploration (which is why I played so much of Fallout 3 and New Vegas) skip the tedium that is combat in this game and just focus on the things we enjoy.

    It would not change or remove the existing combat system meaning you can opt not to use the VATS equivalent at all, which is also a valid way to play Fallout 3 and New Vegas.

    I think that's fair and I'd love for you to tell me why it isn't.

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    bioblood22

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    #25  Edited By bioblood22

    VATS in TES, I could see that when using a bow, but most of the weps in TES are melee and thus VATS would be pointless.

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    Storms

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    #26  Edited By Storms
    @Galiant:  
     
    Who said it wasn't fair? Maybe it is fair. But it's kind of like including an optional Pipboy and saying it does nothing to hurt the feel of the game because it's just optional. Maybe you could explain how this could be done in a way that doesn't ruin the setting. Because every time I try to imagine the application, it's horrid. Perhaps you have a different image in your head than I do.
     
    If not, Bethesda keeps refining and improving combat with every release. Don't like the combat? Keep playing, it will get better.  
     
    Just don't like combat in general? Yeah, I can feel you. I'm only in it for the atmosphere, exploration and role-playing. The combat for me serves the purpose of saying "my character had a fight". Beyond that, I tend to ignore it, and don't feel a need to change the gameplay any more than it's natural progression.
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    sreya92

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    #27  Edited By sreya92
    @Galiant said:

    @Storms said:

    @Galiant said:
    @sreya92
    @Galiant said:
    ...which is awesome. Skyrim becoming more like Fallout is a good thing. Now give me Skyrim's version of VATS and I'll be content!
    No.
    Yes. Go play Morrowind or something.
    No.

    I love the people who think they get to hijack TES and declare that the last game with any realism, sim elements or anything should have been Morrowind. I know you hate the very idea that people who like realism, stat management or other "boring" things should be allowed to have a game (and are just bad people, really), but nearly every other video game in the world completely lacks the elements of TES you so despise -- so how about instead of changing TES to suit your style, you just go play any other game that's already like that? If you were being sarcastic or this rebuttal does not accurately reflect your own position, de-apply this comment to you and re-apply it to the sort of person for which it is an apt description.

    Simply stating "no" is not a great way to start a discussion which was why I replied to him the way I did.

    But sure, I'll bite. Consider this: Having something similar to VATS in a TES game would let those of us who think the combat has always been bad and are only in it for the story, characters, atmosphere and exploration (which is why I played so much of Fallout 3 and New Vegas) skip the tedium that is combat in this game and just focus on the things we enjoy.

    It would not change or remove the existing combat system meaning you can opt not to use the VATS equivalent at all, which is also a valid way to play Fallout 3 and New Vegas.

    I think that's fair and I'd love for you to tell me why it isn't.

    You can say that about anything. How about, "Some of us want guns in it. If you don't like the guns then don't use them." "Some of us like the cars in it, if you don't like it don't use it." You see? That's not a good argument. If you don't like the combat then run away. But please, stop trying to blur the lines between Fallout and TES, TES has never used VATS. I see no necessary reason why it should include VATS. So please, stop these silly nonrealistic demands when you know you can just go play Fallout 3. 
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    galiant

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    #28  Edited By galiant

    @Storms:

    @sreya92 said:

    @Galiant said:

    @Storms said:

    @Galiant said:
    @sreya92
    @Galiant said:
    ...which is awesome. Skyrim becoming more like Fallout is a good thing. Now give me Skyrim's version of VATS and I'll be content!
    No.
    Yes. Go play Morrowind or something.
    No.

    I love the people who think they get to hijack TES and declare that the last game with any realism, sim elements or anything should have been Morrowind. I know you hate the very idea that people who like realism, stat management or other "boring" things should be allowed to have a game (and are just bad people, really), but nearly every other video game in the world completely lacks the elements of TES you so despise -- so how about instead of changing TES to suit your style, you just go play any other game that's already like that? If you were being sarcastic or this rebuttal does not accurately reflect your own position, de-apply this comment to you and re-apply it to the sort of person for which it is an apt description.

    Simply stating "no" is not a great way to start a discussion which was why I replied to him the way I did.

    But sure, I'll bite. Consider this: Having something similar to VATS in a TES game would let those of us who think the combat has always been bad and are only in it for the story, characters, atmosphere and exploration (which is why I played so much of Fallout 3 and New Vegas) skip the tedium that is combat in this game and just focus on the things we enjoy.

    It would not change or remove the existing combat system meaning you can opt not to use the VATS equivalent at all, which is also a valid way to play Fallout 3 and New Vegas.

    I think that's fair and I'd love for you to tell me why it isn't.

    You can say that about anything. How about, "Some of us want guns in it. If you don't like the guns then don't use them." "Some of us like the cars in it, if you don't like it don't use it." You see? That's not a good argument. If you don't like the combat then run away. But please, stop trying to blur the lines between Fallout and TES, TES has never used VATS. I see no necessary reason why it should include VATS. So please, stop these silly nonrealistic demands when you know you can just go play Fallout 3.

    There are definitely ways to implement VATS without breaking the immersion. It would obviously not be called VATS.

    Consider instead that it's a time manipulating spell of some sort, that allows you to plan your moves before you execute them. It might even be a perk or something so that you don't even have to pick it up unless you spec for it.

    Also, I've already played hundreds of hours across Fallout 3 and New Vegas. Obviously I can't go back to them for the experience of a fantasy setting that TES games have.

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    JP_Russell

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    #29  Edited By JP_Russell
    @Galiant said:

    Consider instead that it's a time manipulating spell of some sort, that allows you to plan your moves before you execute them. It might even be a perk or something so that you don't even have to pick it up unless you spec for it.

    There's already a dragon shout for slowing time.  The perk idea wouldn't work well as it's not reasonably specific to any of the skills (you could make reaching arguments for one of the magic skills, but then you'd be encouraging non-magic users to invest in a magic tree for an ability that isn't specific to magic affinity), and perks are also in trees where they seemingly have to be picked in certain orders, anyway (so the only way to be able to avoid it is if it were the last perk in the tree, which for many people, would even be a complete waste of a perk slot in place of something actually useful).
     
    This is all beside the point, though.  Sometimes there are mechanics that you can add in as optional things for certain players that would prefer to have them, but that doesn't necessarily mean they should be added in.  What options you give the player to approach a situation determines what restrictions they have in the gameplay, and how they will be able to experience the game.  As such, even if a given mechanic would appease certain players, you have to consider whether it may be untrue to the core of the relevant aspects of the game and potentially detrimental to some players' experiences even just as an optional way to play.
     
    Maybe Bethesda doesn't want players to have a way to engage in combat as low-octane as VATS in all their games, whether it would be to their preference or not.  Even worse, maybe there are situations where a VATS system would be momentarily more effective than real-time combat, and players who are averse to the system would be forced to choose between the way they feel the game should be and the more effective way that they feel it shouldn't even be able to be.  When possibilities like that present themselves, the inclusion of such a mechanic, no matter how optional it is or how many layers you put it behind, becomes a much more important decision, because you're risking meddling with the purity of your game in the experiences of many players.
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    sreya92

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    #30  Edited By sreya92
    @Galiant said:

    @Storms:

    @sreya92 said:

    @Galiant said:

    @Storms said:

    @Galiant said:
    @sreya92
    @Galiant said:
    ...which is awesome. Skyrim becoming more like Fallout is a good thing. Now give me Skyrim's version of VATS and I'll be content!
    No.
    Yes. Go play Morrowind or something.
    No.

    I love the people who think they get to hijack TES and declare that the last game with any realism, sim elements or anything should have been Morrowind. I know you hate the very idea that people who like realism, stat management or other "boring" things should be allowed to have a game (and are just bad people, really), but nearly every other video game in the world completely lacks the elements of TES you so despise -- so how about instead of changing TES to suit your style, you just go play any other game that's already like that? If you were being sarcastic or this rebuttal does not accurately reflect your own position, de-apply this comment to you and re-apply it to the sort of person for which it is an apt description.

    Simply stating "no" is not a great way to start a discussion which was why I replied to him the way I did.

    But sure, I'll bite. Consider this: Having something similar to VATS in a TES game would let those of us who think the combat has always been bad and are only in it for the story, characters, atmosphere and exploration (which is why I played so much of Fallout 3 and New Vegas) skip the tedium that is combat in this game and just focus on the things we enjoy.

    It would not change or remove the existing combat system meaning you can opt not to use the VATS equivalent at all, which is also a valid way to play Fallout 3 and New Vegas.

    I think that's fair and I'd love for you to tell me why it isn't.

    You can say that about anything. How about, "Some of us want guns in it. If you don't like the guns then don't use them." "Some of us like the cars in it, if you don't like it don't use it." You see? That's not a good argument. If you don't like the combat then run away. But please, stop trying to blur the lines between Fallout and TES, TES has never used VATS. I see no necessary reason why it should include VATS. So please, stop these silly nonrealistic demands when you know you can just go play Fallout 3.

    There are definitely ways to implement VATS without breaking the immersion. It would obviously not be called VATS.

    Consider instead that it's a time manipulating spell of some sort, that allows you to plan your moves before you execute them. It might even be a perk or something so that you don't even have to pick it up unless you spec for it.

    Also, I've already played hundreds of hours across Fallout 3 and New Vegas. Obviously I can't go back to them for the experience of a fantasy setting that TES games have.

    You misread my post. I said I didn't see any necessary reason to include VATS. Sure you could include it, but like I said, what's the point in having different games if all you want to do is combine them all together? It doesn't fulfill a void in TES combat, if anything, they should add special moves via combos over VATS. Fulfilling the desire of a couple of Fallout fans is not enough of a reason to do anything so drastic to TES, it would set a bad precedent. 

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