I've just finished it and dunno about you guys but apart from the last 10 minutes or so when it went COMPLETELY insane, I actually really liked the slow-burn of wtf was actually going on.

In the end I think I understand - Ruvik's research created the machine, which the doctor took credit for, and all the machinations of the world itself were just twisted creations born from everyone's shared psyche, but mainly Ruviks?

Remaining questions would be:

- Wtf was up with the death of Castellano's kid? That felt like it was building to something and just didn't.

- What was Kidman's 'orders' throughout? In fact, wtf happened to Kidman, and was Joseph's death just that scattershot in the park area, in the city?

- Any idea wtf the box-headed dudes are? The multi-armed woman was Ruvik's sister I assume?

What did you guys make of it all? The only thing i think kicked me in the balls was the checkpointing, especially with a couple of the bosses.

Ruvik and the Doctor were working on a project called STEM, which would allow them to link different minds together. The Doctor betrayed Ruvik and took credit for his accomplishments. Ruvik was hooked to the machine as the main test subject, so his mind was a gateway for others, which explains why he was the strongest of them all. Plus, above everything else, Ruvik's intelligence far exceeded everyone else's so it kind of makes sense.

1. It's Sequel bait main. His daughter was obviously connected to all of this, since for some reason his wife,Myra, was kidnapped once she came close to finding why her daughter was killed. and since the ending implied that Sebastian hadn't existed the fantasy world, it's possible that they'll explore his past and sins in the further games(if there will be any.)

2. Kidman worked for someone, or a group of people who were obviously aware of the whole situation with Ruvik. they have also been following Sebastian since kidman knew something about him and was assigned to him. It'll probably be explored in her DLC. Plus, sebastian seemed pretty close to finding out what happened to his daughter. Like I said, it's connected somehow.

3.Each monster represented some aspect of ruviks sinful, twisted and tortured mind. The alter ego, sadness over his sister, heresy, trauma, etc. The boxman, or the keeper was Ruviks secrets. In one of the recording, as I recall, he mentions his safe getting stolen.

I loved the game. Easily one of the best this year. Sure it wasn't scary in the traditional sense but I was on edge the whole time I was playing this, which is more than enough for me. Shinji Mikami is still the master.

EDIT: for anyone who is interested. I think Ruvik transferred his consciousness into Leslie's body, so in the end, ruvik was never really killed, and now Leslie/Ruvik is still In charge of the STEMworld. .

I finished the game this morning. Yeah, the plot is all over the place. It's extremely simple, yet extremely convoluted. Spoilers! Basically:

Now, onto the questions:

1. AFAIK, that subplot serves absolutely no purpose for the overall plot of the game. I was expecting both to tie together at some point, but what Myra uncovered seems to be completely unrelated to Ruvik's plan. DLC, maybe?

2. Everything regarding Kidman and Joseph's fate is left open to interpretation... or DLC, maybe? There's no clarification in the main game about what happens with them, or why Kidman was sent to the hospital.

3. The Keepers, much like every other "special" monster in the game (i.e. not a regular zombie human) is a personification of Ruvik's feelings. They represent the fears that arose in him by Jimenez stealing his research, hence the lockbox. The game's description of the enemy says that anyone who tries to open the box gets trapped by it, becoming a Keeper. That would be Ruvik's "revenge" for everyone who tries to steal what is his.

I honestly didn't like the game. It pacing is all over the place. The plot is fucking convoluted. The characters are pretty bland. And there's way too much action and very few puzzles... I was expecting something like a modern RE1, but instead I got a better RE6, which is not saying much.

The story's junk. The writing and voice acting is bad enough that it's beaten down much enthusiasm I've had in trying to uncover the 'hidden depth' or what have you behind the story. In all honesty it's likely only as confusing as it is because they thought that would make the story seem better than it is. That Mikami has cited Inception as an inspiration is telling for this game's... way of storytelling anywhoo.

Its many, many unanswered questions are likely deliberately left as they are so as to then build a franchise around it with its own overly convoluted lore like Resident Evil. This cult that's mentioned here and there is likely to be the Umbrella equivalent I would imagine.

One thing that seemed like a missed opportunity is to have Sebastian's past reflected in the world, given that it's meant to be tied with Ruvik's. Like, since he's an alcoholic, then maybe have some alcohol-themed enemies or something or have him drown in booze or... I dunno. Or Hell, have Myra and his daughter show up somewhere or something like that. Though I do remember Marcelo mentioning that Ruvik is the only one that has control, though, but still.

Having just finished the game, I really didn't think it was THAT convoluted and bad. In fact, I kind of liked it. Sure the story isn't exactly great, but as far as horror goes, I was really satisfied.

The voice acting isn't anything special either, but it fits your typical horror character. Plus Sebastian isn't as wooden as I was led to believe. Plus, I really like the Shatter Island type ending.

The story's dumb, but without the cheesiness of Resident Evil; the plot of Resident Evil games, while never particularly stellar, is at least easy enough to follow per game at that. Plus, Silent Hill has a lot of genuinely amazing horror stories under its belt, which is also an obvious influence for The Evil Within. The voice acting's the same way. It's bad, but it's not cheesy or melodramatic enough to be entertaining like in Resident Evil, nor is it weirdly surreal like Silent Hill.

Well, I'd say it's more simple then dumb. But the presentation for me makes up for it. Having Ruviks sins and horrors manifest as actual creatures was fucking fantastic if you ask me. As for Sebastian, he's not cheesy, but he's definitely cliche as hell, in fact, it'd say it's comedic at times. Whereas Leon was the witty hero, Sebastian is your typical badass cop. Hell, I even laughed my ass off during some of his moments. Like the one where he checks for his cigarets(or was it alcohol?) at the end of the first chapter after having his leg slip open by a chain saw wielding maniac.

One thing that seemed like a missed opportunity is to have Sebastian's past reflected in the world, given that it's meant to be tied with Ruvik's. Like, since he's an alcoholic, then maybe have some alcohol-themed enemies or something or have him drown in booze or... I dunno. Or Hell, have Myra and his daughter show up somewhere or something like that. Though I do remember Marcelo mentioning that Ruvik is the only one that has control, though, but still.

I was expecting this too, actually. But then again, I don't think it's been thrown out of the window either; I mean, clearly Lily's death and Myra's investigations were somehow tied to whatever the hell was going on, and it seams that Sebastian never really left the STEMworld, so his past bubbling up is a definite possibility.

There's this group called Umbrella and they made a virus and there's a dude called Wesker who can do Matrix moves... oh.

The story is utterly nonsensical. I'm sure it makes sense to someone somewhere though. I really don't think it's going to be worth dissecting until the DLC comes out... and then we can continue to say it's nonsensical and call it junk. (And if the DLC makes the whole thing make more sense then that really, really sucks.)

From what I can figure is that the prequel comic is just lots of people running away from monsters. I just dunno.

@theacidskull: There's only, like, two of the game's enemies that feel like they're actually connected to Ruvik in some way, and one of which is only because she's his sister. The Keeper too is only tangentially related as some sort of, well, Keeper... it's no more than a guard dog and doesn't at all relate to Ruvik as a character. The way they mention that this and that is a manifestation of Ruvik's whatever in the model viewer descriptions just seems like a last-ditch effort to give the game some form of thematic consistency, when really there's very little. It's no Silent Hill 2, that much I'll say.

The game as a whole is just a collection of horror movie cliches and tropes, most of which simply exist to serve the gameplay. Though there's nothing wrong with that of course, as that's precisely the priority Resident Evil games take. Only the stories of Resident Evil are much more fun than The Evil Within's, which frankly I'd say takes itself too seriously for its own good.

I don't exactly agree with that assessment though. Sure, some of the monsters weren't exactly part of Ruviks personality, but they were definitely part of his past or experiences. Like Truama, the giant lumbering, deformed butcher who makes a scraping noise as he walks. Or the later ego, which were part of Ruvik's twisted experiments. While not DIRECTLY connected, they still in some way defined Ruvik's character in one way or the other.

Keeper - Paranoia and his secrets.

Trauma -Loosing his sister, being tortured as he was connected to stem, etc. or it could be the Trauma of his victims which he so gracefully enjoys.

Heresy- Self explanatory I guess.

Alterego - Ruviks enjoyment of breaking someones character by forcing them to go insane, which may explain his strive for more power.

if anything, even if all my assumptions are wrong, the game has me talking and speculating, which means it did something right? Either ways, it doesn't really matter. We both enjoyed the game so who cares :P

^^^ this, so much tension, I felt physically exhausted after finishing a chapter, and, although a few of the gameplay mechanics were... questionable... I still really enjoyed it too.

I know right? And every time I heard that "sanctuary" music I bursting with joy.

But how do you know they were apart of his past experiences? Ruvik is such a one-dimensional character anyway that it's easy enough to just make up any old thing. I could say that Keeper is a manifestation of Ruvik's irrational fear of safes or... whatever.

And AlterEgos are supposed to be the effect of attaching people with split-personality disorder or something to the STEM, least that's what I remember from reading its description. Further more... is every single common Haunted enemy you encounter attached to this STEM thing? Because i killed 400+ people during the game so... And how was he attacking people anyway when he's apparently just a brain in a jar. And how did he even get that way in the first place? If it was down to Marcelo, then why would he keep him alive as an all powerful Futurama brain? Also, when Sebastian and Co. arrive at the hospital, how is Ruvik able to attack him when Sebastian hasn't yet entered Ruvik's world or whatever? And if Ruvik still has the power to materialise as this super-fast ghostly figure, why is he after Leslie to act as his vessel?

@yummylee: Well, Ruvik was the main test subject so could it be possible that his consciousness managed to exceed the limits it was given? I mean, Ruvik was a genius even at an early age, so it's not impossible that his reach extended over the experiments boundaries due to his mass intelligence.

And I just realized, Kidman is the Ada wong of the Evil Within....

Right down to wearing High Heels even though holy shit monsters are everywhere.

The... test subject for what?

Also, who is Nurse Tatiania? And why are Sebastian and Joseph able to withstand the effect of permanently turning into a Haunted? And why isn't Kidman affected at all by the brainwave thing that turns people into Haunted? And why didn't any of the cops stop Leslie from leaving at the end? If the Haunted are people connected to the STEM, how do you somehow fight against people that are dressed like they're in the middle ages? Where and when is that early game village and what purpose does it serve? The castle too? They can't be Ruvik's memories after all. How does Sebastian know Joseph is dead? Where in the Hell does that humvee come from when you're fighting monster Ruvik? And why does the ending show Sebastian waking up in the bathtub full of jizz, destroying the brain, and then waking up again?

...Seriously, that this game's story is even getting this amount of discussion is giving it more credit than it's worth. It's all there purely to serve the gameplay, and I frankly think that's the only perspective where it all makes the most sense.

And why does the ending show Sebastian waking up in the bathtub full of jizz, destroying the brain, and then waking up again?

...I'm sorry, did you say something? I was to busy laughing at this to focus on anything else. The white stuff is probably ruvik being very naughty. :P

Anyways, Ruvik was the main test subject in the STEM program, which created to link different minds together. I can't say why they were immune, but they were obviously resisting the urges to turn, since both Joseph and Sebastian tried to fight against it. As for Kidman, she seemed to know a lot more than she let on. Plus she was free in the end she was looking down on Sebastian, so it's possible she was never really connected to the device in the first place. Maybe the people she works for had allowed to enter Ruviks mind some other way.

Also, regarding the question about Leslie(since I have no solid answers to the other ones), I think Ruvik transferred his consciousness into Leslie's body, so in the end, ruvik was never really killed, and now Leslie/Ruvik is still In charge of the STEMworld.

@theacidskull: Oh, yeah, I gathered that Ruvik was (somehow...) able to take over Leslie, but that doesn't explain why he was allowed to just waltz out of there. Nor where the Hell Kidman vanished to. Oh, and there was that moment that shown you as someone else (Leslie maybe) in first-person getting shot in the face by Sebastian..?? What was that all about?

Blaaaaah my mind.

Was it Ruvik's body? But then again, it was his brain that STEM was connected to right? I guess the gist of it all is that you don't really know whether Sebastin is still in or out of he STEMworld. Or maybe when he destroyed Ruviks brain, someone else took over as the main consciousness?

My brain hurts, and I love it.

This was the main thing that hung me up about the story, what's with that mass murder at the hospital? It seems like just a drop in the bucket of unanswered questions though. One theory I read is that Sebastian is hooked up to the machine before the game even starts.

Anyway I really liked the game, very stylish levels, enemies, and characters. Fun gameplay but a little brutal with some checkpoints. It would be cool if there is some kind of story payoff in the DLC/sequels, but story isn't why I come to these kind of games.

While there are definitely more questions than answers, it is my belief that Sebastian "woke up" at the end of the game. He was actually in the real world.

Why do I think this? The answer lies with Leslie(And, to a very very very important extent, Kiddman). Leslie was compatible with Ruvik. He was a suitable match for him to transfer his consciousness to in order to escape STEM. Furthermore, Leslie was the only person to ever escape the STEM machine. So as far as Ruvik was concerned, problem solved.

I think the story goes deeper but I don't think we are actually allowed to figure it out right now. Not until the Kiddman DLC is released. Something really struck me about the collectibles you find. They seem to lead up to something but don't really go anywhere. For example, Sebastian knew he was being "watched" by people because his investigation into his missing wife was getting too close. But, to what? It was implied that his daughter's death was set up and the obvious connection is to Ruvik and his sister. As Myra got too close to figuring it out, she too vanished.

My understanding is that "The Organization" that Kiddman and Jimenez worked for got to Myra and kept a close eye on Sebastian as well. This is obvious, as Kiddman was assigned to Sebastian shortly before the events of the game took place. Then Ruvik decided to surprise everyone and enact his master plan on escaping STEM and taking his revenge out on this "Organization".

Interestingly enough, it seemed that Ruvik had always planned this. If you read the documents and some things in the character model, you'd know that Ruvik was pretty close to death as his body was reaching its limit due to the trauma from the fire. His mind began to wander to hatred, hatred for what happened to his sister, and then eventually Jimenez' betrayal left him without a body inside of STEM.

To put it simply: If they were still in the STEM world, it wouldn't make any sense. Because why would Ruvik need to escape when it was already established that only he had control over what was happening? "I created this world, and you can't keep me here" is what he says near the ending of the game. But he's not talking to us, nor Sebastian. He's talking to someone else... Kiddman? The mysterious suited lady at the end? I mean, we aren't keeping him here, so logical deduction would imply he's not talking to us.

Another thing: Actually LOOK at what is happening in the final cutscene (At 1:40:00)when Sebastian opens his eyes to see Kiddman, right after smashing Ruvik's brain. She motions him to keep quiet and close his eyes. She is letting him out of STEM and doesn't want him to get killed. She knows that Ruvik escaped using Leslie and she needs him to go out and find him. I think she knows what happened to his wife and daughter, and not remembering her parents, she sympathies with him. "You're a good man... that's why I..." is what she tells him before the Ruvik battle. What she had to say may have been important, it may not have. But it;s clear she's not going to kill him, nor does she wish him any harm. She shot Joseph and he died(Or did he?) but when she shoots Sebastian, he wakes up fine as usual.

To conclude: Sebastian is in the real world, you can see as much in the cutscene. I don't think we're going to have to wait for a sequel to find out more since Kiddman is going to have 2 whole downloadable campaigns about what she went through, and since she's the only one who seems to know what's going on, I'm going to assume we'll find out a lot more then.

Either way, this game is the fucking bomb. The story is great and I love how they leave things open to interpretation. NOW WE ARE THE DETECTIVES.

These are some interesting stuff.

@n7: Interesting stuff you got there, but I have some questions about what you just said. If Kidman is supposed to have let Ruvik out, why was she so determined to killed leslie? Her goal was to keep Ruvki as far away as possible from the poor dude so I'm not quite sure where she exactly decided to let Ruvki off the hook. It just doesn't add up. Clearly she entered the STEM world through other means too, since in the end it was shown that she wasn't really hooked up to anything.

It's possible that she looked at Ruvik at the end of the game but it's just as possible that she looked at Sebastian and told him to be quite. Either ways, it'a hard to tell. Though If I'm being honest, the Ruvik theory, while possible, doesn't seem to add up with Kidmans initial motivations. Plus, Kidman seemed to have some respect for Sebastian as she tells him that he's indeed a good man so again, it's hard to determine her stance based on what we've seen so far, since there are just too many variables. But like you said, Kidman has a two part DLC campaign so hopefully it'll elucidate some things.

I want to play Kidman's DLC, hopefully there's some answers there.

She didn't let him(Ruvik) out, she let Sebastian out. See, the problem here lies with the old issue of "Are collectibles in video games something the character themselves reads through and understands, or is it just narrative salt and pepper for the player and only the player?" because there are quite a few documents you pick up that could lead Sebastian to a couple of conclusions that he never comes to. So while Kiddman eventually learns that Ruvik wants Leslie so he can transfer into him and escape into the real world, Sebastian doesn't get that.

Also, I should totally warn you, this next thing I'm going to talk about might sound completely idiotic and stupid, but bare with me, I promise I will make my point.

At the beginning of the game you find a document, one of the first collectibles. It gives you the first taste of what this "STEM" is. It's called "Boiler room note" and in it, it explains that they were doing a STEM system operation test. Then it goes on to say "Anomaly occurs. Not with the subject; the stenographer claimed they weren't feeling well and then fell into a coma for reasons unknown. Doctors order the STEM system terminated." they then go on to say "Staff begin complaining of nausea and falling unconscious one after another. Those who can still move plan their escape from the hospital but for unknown reasons are unable to. Though the STEM system should have been deactivated, subjects maintained brain wave synchronization with the host." and finally "He... that man appeared."

Something went wrong and the STEM began affecting people... uh, wirelessly. They weren't hooked up, but they were pulled in regardless. So, my original theory, while long and drawn out(And almost immediately disproven) was that this was going to be some sort of weapon, and it accidentally went out and just so happened to connect to the mind of a madman. That was not what ended up happening though.

Now, again, bare with me, I'm making my way to a point. For the sake of argument, let's say that while active, the STEM can affect people wirelessly, that it somehow sends signals to people, knocks them into a coma but maintains the brain wave sync with the system(I mean, I say "let's say", but the document just confirmed that this is a thing that can happen). With that information, let us go over what Nolan North's character said later on in the game(This time I'm paraphrasing because it's not a cutscene so I've got no idea where to look). He explains that Ruvik must have been desperate to destroy a STEM terminal. Point here, "a STEM terminal". That implies, to me, that there are more of them. So this could easily explain how Leslie was able to get out of the hospital underneath Kiddman and the Organization's noise.

I know, that's a dumb answer "Oh, he was just somewhere else". But really, it was either that or he wasn't at a terminal, but rather somewhere else in the hospital and he just broke out once he woke up in Leslie's body. Now, that also sounds kind of dumb and a little anticlimactic, but there is evidence to this: Leslie not only has broken out of the STEM machine before, but he has also escaped the hospital before. With Ruvik's cruel intentions and Leslie's memories, it's easy to think that he could have just, simply put, found a backdoor and gone through it.

Perhaps when Sebastian saw Leslie(Who is now completely under the control of Ruvik) walking away, it was Ruvik's way of taunting him. "You can't keep me here". The implication of course, as he simply then disappears, is pretty much confirmation that he's somehow taken control of the STEM system and brought his powers into the real world. Some sort of Freddy Kruger type deal.

And to a final point, since Ruvik was the one who created STEM, and is the heir to a magnitude of wealth, it's entirely possible that he will continue his research and continue to build STEM machines. That's all conjecture, mind you, but we can only unravel this stuff by talking it out, and apparently I have a lot to say.

Personally I find it really fun to talk about this stuff. Everywhere you look, there's more stuff to find.

@getz said:

The unfortunate thing is it's a lose-lose situation. If the DLC only makes it all the more convoluted, then... the story's still shit. However even if it does manage to explain everything and suddenly skyrockets the story to Oscar material, the fact that you need to pay extra for DLC to have these questions answered is real shitty. Though as it is the story just feels incomplete regardless, and that's leaving out the terrible voice acting and dialogue.

@n7: You've quite honestly been putting more thought into all this than even Mikami himself I'll bet.

It's not unheard of. Someone wrote this monster of a theory, going way deep into the themes of MGS2 that Kojima didn't even go to, and there are a SHIT ton of themes and ideas going on in MGS2. It obviously was proven as false when MGS4 came out, but it's a neat inside of how far people are willing to go in order to get to the bottom of a mystery, regardless of if it actually exists or not.

Maybe I am putting more thought than Mikami. But I've already found connections and plot details just from the documents alone. I mean, again, it's one of the first collectibles you find, and it tells you that, yo, STEM can also work via wifi(Also bluetooth, isn't that interesting) and also it's powered by a psycho homicidal maniac's brain. So, uhm, you're all fucked. Which is pretty important, especially when the big question is "HOW DID THEY GET OUT OF STEM AT THE END WHEN THEY ARE SURROUNDED BY MYSTERY PEOPLE!?!?".

@n7: MGS2 I totally understand (regarding the fan theories I mean), though. That was a game that was ahead of its time, much like Silent Hill 2 even -- man, Konami were on fire during that era. The Evil Within on the other hand... like, even when you try to piece it all together it's still ultimately just a dumb, shlocky b-movie story, hence why I find this fervent speculation so baffling. There's no secret meaning to it all, we're trying to simply make sense of what the Hell even happens through half of the thing. It just doesn't seem like the sort of story that really deserves this amount of discussion.

But eh, who am I to try and stamp all over your fun, I suppose. Story's still a bunch of junk, though ;)

You know I don't really find this all that ridiculous actually. In fact it can actually be pretty consistent with the games story, that being said though, why and for what reason Ruvik wanted to capture Leslie isn't the tough part to explain. The conclusion still leads to the fact that Ruvik took possession or transferred his mind in Leslie's; that much is clear at this point. The more interesting or better yet harder question would be, why was Sebastian's daughter killed? And how did the wife disappear? Was Lily also an integral element in Ruvik's escape plan too? Or was she still a casualty in one of Ruvik's plans? Did Sebastian's wife, Myra, become synced with the STEM too, somehow? Or if she wasn't, who killed/kidnapped her? Was it the people who Kidman worked for? Did they think that Myra revealing this secret would cause panic or something?

At any point, there's obviously going to be an eventual sequel( since the game did relatively well), so I think they, this time around at least, should focus more on Sebastian's past and future rather than Ruviks. It's funny that Ruvik, the antagonist, was far more interesting than the main character himself.

And I agree, it's really fun to speculate.

Here's a thought I just had today when doing a writeup on how bad some of the dialogue and interactions are - are we sure Joseph and Kidman are actually their real selves in their with Seb, and not just projections of how he assumes they'd be?

They seem completely un-phased by the events of the world itself, and are borderline nonchalant about the crazier things later on. The doctor mentions that each host contributes something to the world around them, with most of it being Ruvik - so what it Joseph and Kidman's totally random appearances just happen when Seb wills them into being?

Not to be a "rule warden" here or take over your thread with my inane ramblings, but in that cutscene, Jimenez says that everyone is contributing on some level but only Ruvik has any real influence. So Sebastian wouldn't have my control over that. If he did, I'd imagine he'd see his wife or something.

This is just my thought, and with the game being so open to interpretation, I'm not saying this is the final answer or even the right one. But the though I had, since it was later explained that people hooked up to STEM don't "share" consciousness, they become "one being", that it was simply because Ruvik was causing all of this to happen, and every character shared his... knowledge? - I don't know how to put it, but since being in STEM links everyone together, less of a P2P-like system that people join and more like a network server where everyone is being taken care of at the same time - maybe subconsciously they were aware of these things, while consciously being unaware. Like when they fight a giant fucking spider demon and no one bats an eye. I know personally, I would have screamed until someone had to shoot me. But them? They remained stone faced.

Again, I'm just interpreting with the best of you guys right now, but a couple of things: I had this crazy idea that we would be able to piece together what happened to his wife and daughter based on the documents, missing person's posters, and the map.

In the collectibles, there is a TON of stuff going on. Ruvik's dad was leading a cult? Then there's missing persons as well as straight-up murders all over Krimson city. Sebastian's daughter was killed and then his wife went missing?

I was originally going to write this huge post tying everything together, since I notice most of that stuff has dates and it would be very easy to make a timeline putting it all in perspective, but that wouldn't truly work because that stuff isn't hard to follow. Sure, it doesn't make sense, but it's pretty easy to understand.

There's two documents in the game that really drive home the theory that "The Organization" was behind the kidnapping of Myra 1: Note From Myra and 2: Internal Affairs Transcript. She went out to investigate the missing persons all over Krimson City, and we know that T.O.(The Organization) was providing them to Ruvik for his research into the STEM project so Jimenez could later steal the credit.

So, I'll take an obvious step that she found out. T.O. didn't like this and decided it was time to make a move, and they took her, but not before she sent a note to Sebastian explaining that she got in too deep and he needs to stay away from this or he'll be taken too. Of course, Sebastian doesn't take this advice and begins his own investigation.

Something happened that we don't get a chance to see in the game, something having to do with Sebastian also getting too close, because in the Internal Affairs Transcript, he already knows he's being followed by someone. A few months before Myra goes missing, Kiddman shows up and is assigned to Seb and Joseph. I believe she was a plant to find out more, and that maybe she was responsible for Myra's disappearance.

I know I certainly can't wait for that Kiddman DLC. Hope it's not like TLOU where we have to wait almost a year. That was killer.

The game was really obvious. There was no twist or turns. I actually find it strange that some reviewers said the plot was hard to understand because the game keeps spelling it out after about chapter 4 or 5.

The game is basically a mixture of the matrix and inception. The ending is great because it leaves it open for a sequel (since Rubin got out through Leslie) but also satisfyingly concludes this story.

There is also a lot of good setup for a sequel with Sebastian's back story (wife is missing and his child died under questionable circumstances) among other things they have yet to talk about. That should be interesting, but the nice thing is if they never make it that's fine as this game closes up just fine so you aren't left hanging.

I may check out the DLC for this if it's at all interesting, but I rarely if ever get DLC so people will have to praise it as being astounding. I do kind of enjoy the game for not doing anything special and just being old fashioned and obvious. Sometimes that is refreshing. I'm not giving the game a pass, though, as the game play is awful (needs serious improvement), being obvious is only good because it's super unclear if it was supposed to be or not (as Sebastian was constantly confused about things he was already told and already knew about), the acting was surprisingly bad but very minimalist anyway, the boss fights are awful, and the story is a cop out.

I am conflicted. I don't know why I like this game, but there are things about it that I enjoy. It's a 3/5 game if I'm being generous, though. Even if it is a decent survival horror which is rare anymore I feel people are giving this game a pass. This game was really bad.

If someone is confused by the story I can tell you what happened. They couldn't spell it out any clearer without actually writing it on the screen, haha.

I also want to make it clear- I did not read anyone else's responses before I wrote this just to see if others match up. Other than some people not understanding the story (which still confuses me how that could be) it seems I am not alone in my thoughts haha

I do like how the beginning of the game is a massive red herring. Joseph Oda's missing persons report confirms the fact that even the very beginning of the game featured everyone in the STEM, rather than being in the real world. I really hope there's a sequel out of this game, one of my favourites of the year. I still don't quite understand the original motivations behind Ruvik's research. Was it to talk to his sister again while she was comatose or something?

Oh I forgot to ask. Has anyone found all the map pieces yet? I'm curious what that does. I'm missing 4 pieces on mine.

Late to the party I guess, but

This is my second time righting this so I'm summing it down. Seb is a former detective turned mental patient who is in a shutter island like rpg as a form of therapy to help with his psychological issues this explains the save room and the nurse . The secret organization thought he could be of value so they plugged him into the STEM . Kidmen and Joseph are part of the organization but kidmen understood what was needed to be done. The doctor turned on ruvik and was in the STEM to help find ruviks secrets but went crazy and wanted to escape. Leslie was a former patient of ruviks and ruvik sensing betrayel conditioned Leslie's mind to be weak so ruvik could take his body later on in the STEM . Leslie was in the STEM to help draw out ruvik but failed due to Sebs intervention . Kidmen realized all hope was lost during the mission and tried killing Leslie because Leslie was the key to escaping. Seb intervened like ruvik predicted also left this part out but ruvik was using Seb to get Leslie closer to him which of course happened. Ruvik is defeated and his brain destroyed just like he wanted. In the end Seb is still in the STEM with ruvik but this time ruvik is in Leslie's body trying to find the exit and Sebs shattered psyche is controlling the world so most likely the manifestations of his psychological trauma will try and stop him as he hunts down ruvik. Question any one also sorry for the shit spelling I wrote this in a hurry. Also I created this theory after reading other theories so please no omg you stole my idea

Alright, so I'm starting chapter 7 and I'm on the checkpoint where Leslie triggers the alarm, and SO far from reading all the documents I understand the game, I mean once I fought Laura I was mind blown because THAT was her, and definitely once I fought those two giants, THOSE guys were twins ! So each creature I fight, has a side to them, and the only part im confused about is Mr. Leslie because his ass Keeps running away. What's Leslie's story?

So bacially this game is very phychological. And gruesome.

@fatalevalkyrie: Leslie was a former patient of ruviks and ruvik sensed the STEM would be used on him so he conditioned Leslie's mind to be weak so he could take over Leslie's body and use it to escape the details are above in my theory

Here's the part that is confusing me the most. At first, I did think Lily had some sort of connection to everything. Like she was doing some investigation of her own or whatever...but she was five when she died. Like...what? How could a five-year-old be connected to any of this? The only think that may or may not even link Sebastian to Ruvik is that he and Myra were looking into missing patients that may or may not have been test subjects. That's it. But why are there so many implications that Lily's death was anything more then an accident. I know Myra said she didn't think it was, but like...why would you kill a five year old OTHER then to get to her parents. But if that's the case, wouldn't threatening them be more effective then killing her and having them look into it more?

@yummylee: Love all those points made.

Who is Nurse Tatiana? ?