I thought it would be a lot darker (spoilers)

#1 Edited by Deathstriker (335 posts) -

From seeing certain threads, hearing different podcasts (including Vinny on the Bombcast), and other stuff like that while I was still playing the game, I thought this was going to be really dark, especially the ending. I'm not saying this was blue skies, but I don't think anything THAT dark happened. I like the grayness/selfishness in Joel's final choice, but the world is screwed anyway. Unless Ellie could bring back the infected I don't see the big deal, since they said "vaccine" later in the game and not "cure", I doubt they could do that.

Either way humanity would still have to fight the infected and themselves for resources. I guess after "a certain wedding" a few weeks ago on TV, I classify dark endings a bit harsher. I would definitely say The Walking Dead (the 2012 video game) is darker and more unsettling than this to me. This is a great game, easily the best PS3 exclusive... I just don't get all the talk about it being dark/twisted. Also, it seemed like David was going to strangle Ellie in the burning bar, not rape her, which she seemed to imply.

I'm surprised that they had such an open ending. This feels complete but it definitely seems like they want this to be a series. I'm glad Joel survived since that would've been a cliche for this type of story.

#2 Posted by Barrock (3553 posts) -

I think David intended to take Ellie as his... plaything. That was before she fucked him up and killed his men.

#3 Edited by Reisz (1527 posts) -

Fascinating. I disagree completely. The depth of the ambiguity made it much more disturbing (to me) than if it had been explicitly as dark as possible. As for David there seems to be a lot of division in what people think of his intentions, the line he says while straddling Ellie "I'll show you what I'm capable of" seems to suggest more than murder. Anyway I'm not willing to think on that any more.

These discussions are still the most glowing endorsement of the game's quality that we could ever give. The fact there is so much room for interpretation is a credit to the story. So well executed.

#4 Posted by Zella (820 posts) -

I'd disagree about The Walking Dead's ending being darker, while it was certainly pretty bleak it didn't really make you feel like a bad person. You murder dozens of people, a of them unarmed, in a selfish act. The world wouldn't be screwed at all if the vaccine got out there, from the amount of hunters that you fight in the game and seeming population of Boston at the beginning the world should totally have enough people for humanity to continue. Would it be just like before, probably not. If the majority of people are acting like the hunters then it would revert to a sort of dark ages clan based world but humanity would certainly strive on. Personally I believe that humans would continue on even with the infected but it would be much tougher without a vaccine.

When looking only at the scene in the bar it's tough to tell it David was trying to rape her but he expressed "affection" for her earlier in the game so I think the implication of rape was accurate.

I think a lot of people feel the game is pretty dark is because you don't play as a good person, that's not that clear in the beginning but it's obvious even before the final stage. Unlike Walking Dead where you play as a guy who is forced to make really tough decisions but for more players acts fairly selflessly and is a good guy. The world around you is pretty fucked up but the player has the knowledge that at least they and Clementine are good people. By about halfway through Last of Us the player can't have that feeling really knowing that Joel has done some pretty bad things in the past, and finish it off with killing dozens of innocent people and then betraying the trust of Ellie. While Joel's final actions are certainly wrongful against mankind they are ones many people in his situation would make.

That's still just my opinion though and you are entitled to yours.

#5 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

I do think he was going to rape her because Ellie was really scared and hurt by this. And she was in many other situation where people wanted to kill her. As for Dark. It was more dark and way more mature. Just killing people of does not mean it is darker. Walking Dead end was sad but I think not only the world in the last of us is way more grim and darker than in the Walking dead. In the Waling dead you had this group and there was always some kind of hope. In the Last of us almost everything was depressing and the fact that this is going on for over 20 years it is much more saying in my opinion.

#6 Edited by Deathstriker (335 posts) -

@zella said:

I'd disagree about The Walking Dead's ending being darker, while it was certainly pretty bleak it didn't really make you feel like a bad person. You murder dozens of people, a of them unarmed, in a selfish act. The world wouldn't be screwed at all if the vaccine got out there, from the amount of hunters that you fight in the game and seeming population of Boston at the beginning the world should totally have enough people for humanity to continue. Would it be just like before, probably not. If the majority of people are acting like the hunters then it would revert to a sort of dark ages clan based world but humanity would certainly strive on. Personally I believe that humans would continue on even with the infected but it would be much tougher without a vaccine.

When looking only at the scene in the bar it's tough to tell it David was trying to rape her but he expressed "affection" for her earlier in the game so I think the implication of rape was accurate.

I think a lot of people feel the game is pretty dark is because you don't play as a good person, that's not that clear in the beginning but it's obvious even before the final stage. Unlike Walking Dead where you play as a guy who is forced to make really tough decisions but for more players acts fairly selflessly and is a good guy. The world around you is pretty fucked up but the player has the knowledge that at least they and Clementine are good people. By about halfway through Last of Us the player can't have that feeling really knowing that Joel has done some pretty bad things in the past, and finish it off with killing dozens of innocent people and then betraying the trust of Ellie. While Joel's final actions are certainly wrongful against mankind they are ones many people in his situation would make.

That's still just my opinion though and you are entitled to yours.

I was saying overall TWD seems darker to me, not just its ending. Losing people you care about along the way plays a big part in that. In this game I only cared about the main two characters and they came out fine. In TWD, there's only one survivor from the entire original group. I wouldn't say what Joel did makes him a bad person or anything close to it, I would be tempted to do it myself if I were in his shoes. If the infected can't be saved then Ellie really isn't a big deal. People can be vaccinated against bites, scratches, and spores... they still have to fight hunters and infected.

If the Fireflies told Ellie what was going on and she chose to do the surgery and Joel killed everyone then he'd be a bad person IMO, but they didn't tell Ellie they were going to kill her. Joel doesn't have to kill anyone who's unarmed, besides the main chick at the end if you're counting her; some people said they simply punched the doctor. There's no one "innocent" in the game besides (arguably) the 3 medial personnel at the end. Yeah, David was definitely being pedo right before she broke his finger, but her "he tried to" line to Joel made it seem like he was going to do something (besides kill her) in the burning bar, which seemed a little out of place.

#7 Posted by John1912 (1965 posts) -

Yea, the game is more bleak then dark. Still it can be fairly brutal and violent in the combat which some may say is dark.

#8 Edited by lusence (350 posts) -

I think you may be letting the ending sway your opinion. Lets tally em up, as in the dark moments from start to finish.

-first chapter your daughter is shot to death by a soldier taking orders. First scene in the game joel shoots his neighbor to death as he is infected. Mass people are getting mauled to death by infected.

-then first real fight tess shoots a man in the head for giving her shit. she shooting another one in the head for crossing her after you break his arm.

-tess becomes infected and commits suicide by um soldier, so you then lose your 'girlfriend'

-you run into bandits who are killing people by the droves for things like shoes and shirts, anything they can loot. Women and children included.

-jump way ahead and 2 of the nicest people you meet, brothers end up dead, one gets infected and the older brother has to shoot and kill him than puts the gun to his own head.

-you fall off a ledge and get impaled by a rebarb bleeding out and almost dieing.

-you witness a man being chopped up into little bits, bringing cannibals into this.

anyways yes this is a dark game. just ends kinda happy. as neither of the main chars bite it... IMO

#9 Posted by bkbroiler (1641 posts) -

The thing that depresses me the most about the game is that Ellie and Joel kind of miss each other, personality wise (can't think of a better way to put it). Ellie wanting to be friends with Joel at the beginning and him not having it, and then Ellie having gone through all that shit in the winter and not being fully there for Joel now that he's come around at the end. Ugh. just makes me sad.

#10 Posted by hollitz (1612 posts) -

Totally agree.

Not saying I didn't really like the game, but I thought the Walking Dead was a lot more bleak. And I don't think any post apocalyptic thing is going to really depress the hell out of me like the film Children of Men did a few years ago. I watched it again recently and it didn't seem that bad, but the first time that I saw it, it really threw me for a loop. Also the big moral question at the end was something my Philosophy teacher asked us in like 10th grade, so it seemed a little lacking in oomph to me.

Joel's character is absolutely outstanding though. The way the story gets book-ended with the scene of him running away from military types with his daughter/Ellie in his arms did so much to set up his actions following. I know he made the wrong choice, but I was right there with him in making it.

So where the story fell short for me, the characters and the gameplay more than made up. Fantastic game, but yeah, like you said, I was expecting darker.

#11 Edited by Fredchuckdave (6136 posts) -

Yeah I thought so too, The Last of Us is way too uplifting.

#12 Posted by lusence (350 posts) -

i guess you need to define 'dark'. after playing the winter section again i was pretty blown away at the violence. like the scene where joel asks where the girl is... and then sticks the guy with a shiv in leg, tells him he will bust he knee cap off then sticks the knife in the guys mouth making him point to the spot she is at on the map. then proceeds to kill both bandits. funny the 2nd one was like' i aint telling you shit, you killed him after he told you!!' and joel is like, its okay, i belive him SMASH! then the whole end area where you find the bodies of men in the meat locker, and the whole thing with ellie chopping davids head apart with a machete. if that wasnt dark enough for you then i dont know like i said your definition of dark.

#13 Posted by JasonR86 (9724 posts) -

@deathstriker:

That's the issue with hearing something before you experiencing it and expecting the impossible. I would have been disappointed now hearing about how dark it is too. But, in terms of the world created and the game's competition the game is pretty dark. Especially the ending. It just isn't as dark as one's imagination might expect.

Online
#14 Edited by Deathstriker (335 posts) -

@lusence said:

I think you may be letting the ending sway your opinion. Lets tally em up, as in the dark moments from start to finish.

-first chapter your daughter is shot to death by a soldier taking orders. First scene in the game joel shoots his neighbor to death as he is infected. Mass people are getting mauled to death by infected.

-then first real fight tess shoots a man in the head for giving her shit. she shooting another one in the head for crossing her after you break his arm.

-tess becomes infected and commits suicide by um soldier, so you then lose your 'girlfriend'

-you run into bandits who are killing people by the droves for things like shoes and shirts, anything they can loot. Women and children included.

-jump way ahead and 2 of the nicest people you meet, brothers end up dead, one gets infected and the older brother has to shoot and kill him than puts the gun to his own head.

-you fall off a ledge and get impaled by a rebarb bleeding out and almost dieing.

-you witness a man being chopped up into little bits, bringing cannibals into this.

anyways yes this is a dark game. just ends kinda happy. as neither of the main chars bite it... IMO

I'll agree about the brothers dying, which was pretty dark and sad... not really the rest of the things you mentioned. Cannibals are a trope in zombie and end of the world stories, Tess was clearly always going to die, etc.

This edit will also create new pages on Giant Bomb for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Giant Bomb users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.