So, I bought a Playstation 3 about a year ago, and I made sure I got the edition that included the award winning Uncharted 3. I had heard many great things about the Uncharted franchise, and having played nothing but Xbox and Nintendo games for the past 5 years or so, I was interested to jump into the Sony was of life.

About 3-4 hours into uncharted, I finally turned the console off after having struggles through what was one of the most frustrating and terrible games I had ever played in my life. I had never played a game so in love with itself. If it was a man, it would be the tool with the Hollister outfit it bought directly off a mannequin and who kept checking itself in the mirror every ten minutes to make sure it still looked as amazing as it convinced itself it was when it left home that morning.

So, when The Last Of Us was announced, I was convinced I wouldn't ever play it. I didn't watch any previews. I didn't read any interviews. I completely ignored the game. And then... came the 10's. I've been beaten like this before by other, older, crappy games. Dark Cloud, Bayonetta, and other's were terrible games that I KNEW I wouldn't like, but that MADE me play them by virtue their almost universal acclaim. I knew I wasn't ever going to BUY The Last Of Us, but I was curious enough to want to see what it was about. So, I looked it up on YouTube. A guy had done a "let's play" of the game where he played through the entire game but never said anything. It was, essentially, a Last Of Us movie. I went into the game wanting to hate it, but I came out having to admit that it was really, really good. Exceptional, really. I would agree with most of the reviews that give it very, very high praise.

But here's the problem. I would aruge that if I PLAYED The Last Of Us, I probably wouldn't have liked it very much. Watching it like a movie, I had no frustration with the lack of player "agency" like I did in Uncharted. I had no problem wondering whether I was in control of events, or what the game "wanted me to do". Most of the things that reviewers who DIDN'T like the game pointed out as problems were completely eliminated by simply... not playing the game.

SO what is to be made of that? I'm aware that watching the game like a movie on YouTube is essentially stealing the game. But, I wasn't going to buy it anyways. Ironically, the very reason I wasn't going to buy the game, (I think games should be games and movies should be movies) is exactly why it was so watchable as a movie. But, shouldn't games be more fun to play than to watch? If you can watch a game and enjoy it just as much, if not more, than if you were playing it, that's certainly not an ACHIEVEMENT. It just means you probably should have made a movie. 14,000 started watching the game on Youtube. Only about 8000 made it to the end episode at the time I was watching it. Assuming those people never buy the game (and why would they?) That's almost a million dollars that Naughty Dog isn't getting for their game. And that's just on this ONE guy's stream of it. There are many others.

Is this going to affect gaming in the future? Is there going to be a greater emphasis placed on developers creating games that people want to PLAY more than they want to watch? Is this the negative end to so much emphasis being placed on "Cinematic" and making games look like movies? Or, will developers start offering options where you can just pay a fee and watch their content like a film and it just cost MORE to interact with it?

Well you played a bad Uncharted, you should have played the 2nd one. Then again the gameplay is pretty much the same.

This is much more of a thing with Bioshock Infinite; but any good story is functional watching vs playing; albeit the Last of Us has great gameplay and terrific multiplayer. Though I guess there aren't that many people from the old stealth games days so they're not comprehending how basic stealth mechanics work, but on normal you can play most of the game non stealthy and still be successful; just requires being somewhat skillful with the other mechanics in the game.

I would disagree with that, I think. I think that stories that are told in videogames in the way that movies tell stories are as much fun to watch as to play. I think games that tell stories by involving the player in an experience frustrate viewers because they want to be the one guiding the adventure. I remember watching my brother plays bits of games like The Elder Scrolls and going "I don't want to watch you play this becauase I want it to play it for myself"

Maybe other people would feel that way about TLOU though...

I honestly did the same thing. Someone posted here the other day a link of a very well edited playthrough (there were some obvious cuts where he probably died or got lost for a bit)

But i only did it because i dont have a PS3 and don't intend to buy one just to play one or two games since that seems dumb and a waste of money. Glad i did though, it's an amazing game. Clearly a contender for GOTY.

I think the real challenge is striking that good balance, where a game is both entertaining to watch and entertaining to play. I personally believe that there are some things that can only be gained from playing a game, but I also believe watching many kinds of games can be quite compelling. They're just different. I would argue that you still haven't truly experienced the full game, but you did get one of the kinds of experiences possible from it.

To me, it's great if someone can get something out of either playing a game or watching it, and the challenge for many titles is making both compelling in their own way.

@gottem_guiz123: Congrats on having an opinion and not supporting it at all? The stealth is largely tied to how fast you are moving which does require some degree of skill and efficiency; but in general every situation can be "memorized" more or less like you would in any other stealth game. The AI is dumb out of combat since it's impossible to have good AI and still have a playable stealth experience but it's surprisingly smart and aggressive in combat in the case of human enemies. As for the Infected they're "predictable" as Bill says.

@jazgalaxy: There's nothing wrong with a game having a linear plot; just means the plot will wind up being better 99% of the time; a sandbox like Morrowind doesn't really have a plot so much as it just has a world to explore. The Last of Us has a world to explore but with limited restrictions; instead you have an enormous wealth of detail spread over a moderately sized area instead of identical assets everywhere like in a larger game.

I think the game as its best when you're left to explore the desolate and broken landscapes. The art design in this game is haunting at times.

Not sure what all the fuss about the story is though. 8 hours in and it doesn't feel like anything particularly special.

@fancysoapsman: That feeling might change in time. I'm not sure where you're at in the story, but there's no shortage of interesting scenarios as you move along in the game. Even if the main story beats don't get to you, the optional dialogue that you see along the way adds a bit of weight to what occurs later on.

I hope it all works out for ya, homie.

-.-

How does being a puppet feel? I kid.

Serves them right for creating scripted one way funnel "experiences" that can be watched from afar, instead of interactive bombs that make you want to grab a controller.

Anyone who calls the Uncharted games "terrible" instantly loses my attention. If you consider one of the most polished, fun, cinematic games ever to grace home consoles a terrible game, then I shudder to imagine what you consider a good game. It's one thing to say it's not my cup of tea, and another to call it bad.

Same. Nearly finished watching a walkthrough on Youtube.

@liquidprince said:

They are bad. Uncharted 1 and 3 are fucking awful for gameplay purposes. 2 managed to be fun, somehow. To say Naughty Dog created an impeccable series when only the second game is any good? That's bizarre.

Well that's what you think isn't it. I personally would rank Bastion, Nier and Last of us to be the three best game of this generation but that doesn't mean I see anything bizarre about people raving about halo.

this

opinions, man. you dont like em, that's fine. doesn;t mean they are "fucking awful", as you say.

It depends what you want from gaming. If you're into games for the interactive element, the single-player component of most AAA games isn't really the place for you and isn't going to be for the forseeable future. That battle was lost long ago.

The Uncharted games are good for what they are, but 'what they are' is popcorn action movies paying lip service to interactivity. The intro to UC2 where you watch Drake slowly climb the train could not be less exciting to me, but I understand some people like it. If that's the sort of thing you do find exciting, then they're probably the best examples of it around.

I've actually watched The Last Of Us on youtube aswell, and I'm glad I did. Spending 60 bucks on a game I'll probably never play again didn't seem worth it.

My only response to this thread is "I wish there was an enforced 1-3 month restriction on posting a let's play of new games."

bayonetta owns

Is... Is Uncharted 3 really one of the most terrible games you've played in 25 years? Don't get me wrong, I believe that if there's ever a game that would be considered to be in the same league as the Night Watch, Lolita or Apocalypse Now, looking at U3's reviews, current videogame reviewers are certainly not the ones being able to recognize brilliance. But one of the most frustrating and terrible games ever?

About watching vs playing The Last of Us, there's something about turning the camera around and looking at Ellie's location specific animations while listening to her banter, having to do that consciously (or better, choosing to) is what makes you realize you care for this fictional pile of polygons. Much in the same way of having to physically pressing down the button to hold Yorda's hand in Ico. It makes reaching the end a true journey.

what, did you just call Bayonetta terrible? That game is so finely tuned, down to the very last millisecond it's almost painful how beautiful the actions and player controls are.

I get where you are coming from on the Uncharted series. Here's the specific things that make me kind of dislike that series:

• swimmy camera that's always drifting around - helps with cinematic angles but makes me uncomfortable
• unresponsive movement controls - makes the movement look nice because they take time to blend animations, but makes me feel less in control and more like a monkey in Drake's brain pulling the "turn left" lever.
• They are a sequence of combat arenas and hallway runs. Very pretty, but not my thing
• sometimes arbitrary single-win-path with poorly communicated fail states. Only 1 way right way to run away from that tank.

I get why people like the series. It is very pretty for a PS3 game. Some of the crypts and mechanisms are gorgeous.

I saw the quick look and the controls and camera and knew I wasn't ever going to play Last of Us. Yeah, I'd probably enjoy it more as a movie too.

I did this with Injustice: GAU. It's awesome and terrible at the same time, like you're gutting the game in an attempt to get at the parts you want and discarding the parts you don't want. The user gets exactly what he wants, but at what cost?

In hindsight, I would have liked to have done this with Bioshock Infinite and Catherine. Not for the money, but to just be able to skip gameplay, having to learn controls, discovering what the game doesn't want you to do, etc.

Just because you don't like a particular game, doesn't make it terrible. Dark Cloud and Bayonetta are not terrible games.

You're generalizing from your own perspective way too much. I really, really like The Last of Us and I don't have any common ground with the people who say that playing the game is the worst part of it: I god damn loved the combat, loved the tension and loved exploring. So for me, it *was* more fun to play than to watch. If you didn't see anything appealing about playing it, thought Uncharted 3 was a terrible game and had to force yourself to play through Bayonetta, maybe you prefer films to games? Also you descend into crazy when you say start using youtube views as lost sales - riduclous.

Also , watching someone play a game is never the same as playing it . For example pikmin looked boring when I watched gameplay videos , but when I played them they were amazing .

I unappologetically call it bad.

It was a dual tandem of events that made me hate it. One was a scene where Drake is in a library or something, and I need to reach a certain object or platform to continue. I can't remember why. So I'm running around the library looking for what to do. Now, this place is OVERFLOWING with objects Drake could use to reach what he needs. He could rearrange things, he could climb things. Instead, though, I'm running around trying to figure out what the GAME wants me to do. I am completely at the mercy of trying to figure out what the one solution out of thousands that the developers programmed for me to do to complete the objective. Fine. Whatever. It turns out that what they wanted me to do was to climb up a wall on the opposite side of the room and LEAP to where I was trying to go. Not only is it the most unconventional way to achieve that goal, Drake Leaps, horizontally, about 15 feet from one surface to another. And the thing is, it's not that I mind the ridiculous athleticism. It is, after all, a video game. I mind that there was no way my brain was going to KNOW that that the solution was going to be something outside of the realm of human movement. It would be like if Indiana Jones stopped the boulder in Raiders by turning around and pushing against it with his bare hands.

The second moment that made me absolutely quit the game was when young Drake is running across the rooftops and trying to escape the gang of suited thugs. There is a whole city of wide open space to run to, and I kept losing the game not because I got caught, but because I ran in a direction the GAME DIDN'T WANT ME TO. It was wide open. It was the SMART thing for Drake to do. But the smart thing isn't the Naughty Dog thing, so I had to run AT the badguys instead of away from them just so they could "tell the story they wanted to tell".

Which is why I just WATCHED The Last Of Us and.. no frustration. Actually the guy got similarly lost a few times, but I just fast forwarded to where he figured it out.

It was so frustrating that I quit the game and never looked back. No thank you.

People have a lot of really angry opinions that they express with a lot of anger.

Not only did I not like Bayonetta, I honestly don't undrestand how someone could like it.

I mean, I bought it at full price and it's sitting here next to me as I speak. Every time someone like you says how much they like it, It makes me REALLY want to pick it back up and figure out what I'm missing but... seriously, I don't understand what's to like about it. I've been wrong before. It took me starting 3 times to like KOTOR, but... this game I doubt I will ever come around on. My favorite quote about the game was that developer guy complaining about how people attacked the plot of his game by pointing out that Bayonetta is literally gibberish. I couldn't agree more.

Well, if you play games for the gameplay, you can like Bayonetta for it's best-in-genre mechanics and design.

If you play games purely for story, why the fuck are you playing Bayonetta?

I found Uncharted 3 massively flawed but I think terrible is a stretch. I also don't get this thing of watching games from beginning to end on YouTube -- maybe I just don't get it. I should watch a Halo playthrough or something, see if I understand the fuss then.

@jazgalaxy: Can you give me the channel you watched it on, I would be keen to watch it.

I watched Persona 4, Chrono Trigger and Deadly Premonition from start to finish, I think it's the commentary and reactions that makes it enjoyable.

I don't like the way Uncharted plays but I loved The Last of Us. I also find it amusing how you're criticizing how The Last of Us plays without ever having played it.

Damn there sure are a lot of people in this thread who are spouting their opinion as fact.

I ONLY play games for gameplay. I'll fire it up again to get a more focused opinion on why I don't like it. I haven't played it in forever. But I didn't find the gameplay to be good at all.

Here you go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMlJLcxwSh0

I really doubt the experience of watching the Last of Us is as good as if you had played it yourself, I think part of what makes the Last of Us great, is the journey and being the one to go through it with all the stress it entailed, the feeling of accomplishment for traversing areas with tons of enemies without killing anyone. Going into the most miserable of places, when you would much rather stay outside in the sun and just the general exploration of the amazing post apocalyptic world.

I still think there is an issue with this type of Let's Plays, because these heavily story based games doesn't tend to have much replay value. It just doesn't seem fair to the developers to say: "well I don't want to pay for your game, but I still want to experience the story free of charge."

I think an idea would be for the developers themselves to make a Let's Play you could watch for a more modest sum. This seems like a good alternative to what Ubisoft have done to Assassin's Creed Let's Play's in the past.

Recently Nintendo have been in the news in relation to the same problem, though the justification for this doesn't seem as valid. Especially for for Let's Plays where the Let's Players commentary and editing and general hard work, really creates something new.

I definitely have my gripes with the Last of Us and the decisions Naughty Dog made, but overall it is still one of the best games I have ever played. Though I probably have bias towards games with focus on story and character development (at least the good ones) and this element often makes or brakes a game to me.

The debate about whether cinematic games should really rather be straight up moves, and that the 'game' element just detracts from the experience is definitely interesting.

I've come to the personal conclusion that the game/interactive element can add value to the experience, though I don't think every cinematic game does it well. A game that does is the Last of Us.

At last I have to mention the Zero Escape games, though the games are visual novels I can't help but feel they would be amazing with a cinematic style.

My brother made a point in a games discussion that articulated my feelings about "cinematic" games better than I ever could. It's not a question of games with story vs. games without story. Nobody that I know of thinks games should NOT include story. The question is whether games should "Tell" a story or not. A game that "TELLS" a story implies that the story has already happened and that the game is a storyteller, relaying to you events that you don't really have any part in. A game that features a story allows the player to directly CREATE the story as he is playing.

I would argue that games that "tell" a story are frequently disingenuous. The story they want to tell is frequently butting up against allowing the player to play the game. It was always pretty common, in fact, to have games that invalidate/contradict the gameplay just to "tell" their story. Like, for instance, when the player can have a million dollars of JRPG game money and yet can't afford something simple that would take the plot in a direction the developers didn't intend. Or when a potion can heal any affliction in battle, but can't heal a sick kid when the story calls for the kid to die.

@jazgalaxy: yep the plot and characters are mostly nonsense. I liked Bayonetta for the extremely tight controls and timing, and the combat. I just enjoyed playing it. Dodging, witch-time, air dive kicks, the weapons, pulling off the combos - I loved all of that.

I don't expect everyone to like the game. Not everyone comes to games for the same reason. Bayonetta is a very well crafted game though. They got all of the hard stuff about making an action game right.

Now that I think of it, It's like the antidote to an Uncharted game.

This thread is ridiculous; so much anger... If you dont have anything nice to say, why say it at all? You aren't a critic, all you're doing is spewing negativity onto people so you can feel better about your opinion.. It's fine that you don't like those games, can you keep it to yourself though?

I knew I wasn't going to get this so I watched a Youtube LP and I gave up around the time Joel and Co. meet the Clickers for the first time. There is literally no gameplay to speak of and the stealth is almost as bad as the Uncharted games. It might have improved but it looks very uneven.

In any case, it looks like a one-time playthrough game and that's not what I look for in my games so i'm glad I didn't get it. Even as a far as the story goes, it's the same look-for-supplies-and-survive-yawn stuff in the middle of a zombie apocalypse. I am really disappointed with ND for picking zombies after the nice twist they had at the end of Uncharted 3. I thought they had weaned themselves from zombifying everything. Anyway, I digress. Of course I'm going to get the customary, "they're not zombies" retort from someone but whatever, deal with it.

The voice acting is good but that's probably the only thing I liked. I don't understand how this game got put on a pedestal and all criticism of it is so bitterly contested. It boggles the mind. And calling the Prologue the best prologue ever in video games? The superlatives are getting out of hand.

I also watched it since I don't have a PS3 and don't want to spend $300+ to play one game, and it might have been due to the fact that cutting out the walking around makes it shorter, but it seemed to have way too many fighting scenes, and I played Tomb Raider fairly recently, which has pretty much the same gameplay sans climbing, so it was just burning me out with each new shootout. Overall, the story is great and engrossing, but fuck me, if I'd been forced to play it I wouldn't have made it halfway through.

I watched it as well because I don't own a PS3, but I don't regret it. It's the best movie I've watched all year. I really have no interest in the gameplay anyway.

You are a MONSTER!

You know, this thread is what might tip me over into actually finding out what Last of Us is about. Confirmation on if it worked as a movie or not was basically all I needed since the gameplay looks terribad.

Brb, "let's play" time.

Don't really or have ever watched a game as a "movie" since I like having control of the game but did it with this game today. Great story, glad i watched it cause man that gameplay looks like a drag to play.

Nathan Drake is one of my favorite video game dudes.